Current Events > Was the atomic bombing of Japan justified?

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ultimate reaver 12/13/18 12:09:21 PM #51:	Fuck no --- butts <cite>ultimate reaver posted [p:914057681] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>Fuck no</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 12/13/18 12:10:15 PM #52:	UnfairRepresent posted... Gambling is betting where the darts are going to land if you throw them. Not throwing 2 darts because you only have 2 darts. Throw two bullseyes and hope that beats the opponent anyway. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:914057721] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>Gambling is betting where the darts are going to land if you throw them. Not throwing 2 darts because you only have 2 darts.</quote> Throw two bullseyes and hope that beats the opponent anyway.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkjedilink 12/13/18 1:05:42 PM #53:	BeyondWalls posted... Genocet_10-325 posted... 1. A ground invasion of Japan would have killed far more civilians Isnt this argument flawed? It suggest only two options. (1) Bomb a civilian city or (2) Start a ground invasion of the country. We didnt have to pick a civilian city as a target. What other option was there? --- 'It's okay that those gangbangers stole all my personal belongings and cash at gunpoint, cuz they're building a rec center!' - OneTimeBen <cite>darkjedilink posted [p:914060458] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>BeyondWalls posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Genocet_10-325 posted...</cite> <quote>1. A ground invasion of Japan would have killed far more civilians</quote> Isnt this argument flawed? It suggest only two options. (1) Bomb a civilian city or (2) Start a ground invasion of the country. We didnt have to pick a civilian city as a target.</quote> What other option was there?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DirkDiggles 12/13/18 1:10:04 PM #54:	WheezinEd posted... No, I don't care much for "greater good" arguments, I believe on principle that civilians should not be attacked in war. Tell that to Japan before the bombing. They slaughtered millions of people in East Asia. --- https://imgtc.com/i/5CTKeaL.jpg https://imgtc.com/i/G9w39yE.gif <cite>DirkDiggles posted [p:914060685] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>WheezinEd posted...</cite> <quote>No, I don't care much for "greater good" arguments, I believe on principle that civilians should not be attacked in war.</quote> Tell that to Japan before the bombing. They slaughtered millions of people in East Asia.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WheezinEd 12/13/18 1:20:06 PM #55:	DirkDiggles posted... Tell that to Japan before the bombing. They slaughtered millions of people in East Asia. And how can you say they were any less justified than us? <cite>WheezinEd posted [p:914061218] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>DirkDiggles posted...</cite> <quote>Tell that to Japan before the bombing. They slaughtered millions of people in East Asia.</quote> And how can you say they were any less justified than us?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 12/13/18 1:37:04 PM #56:	I don't believe in tit for tat being a legitimate justification for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people anywhere. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:914062186] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>I don't believe in tit for tat being a legitimate justification for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people anywhere.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
K181 12/13/18 1:47:06 PM #57:	Admitted self-plagiarism, but I posted these thoughts a while ago and saved them: Here are my opinions. Was the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki horrific? Of course. Should we be proud of the fact that we're the only country to have engaged in nuclear war? Hell the ** no. Should we feel horrible for the suffering and pain that it caused, both on the victims, survivors, and national psyche of Japan? You'd better believe it. Was it justified? Damn right it was. World War II was, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the single most horrific event in human history. It was a truly global affair, with fatalities potentially as high as 75 million and casualties obviously therefore in the hundreds of millions (remember, casualties = killed + wounded + captured + missing). It utterly devastated two continents, wrecked havoc across dozens of countries, and almost wiped out a number of religious and ethnic groups, especially Jews and Gypsies. Atrocities were committed en masse. From the Bataan death march in the Philippines to the death camps in Poland to the rape of Nanjing to the firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden to untold numbers of massacres, rapes, and other crimes against humanity. It was a war that sometimes brought out the very best in human nature, but more often the very worst as well. Terms like evil are tossed around far too easily in today's parlance, but the death regimes of Japan and Germany and even the Soviet Union (albeit more to incompetence rather than deliberate mechanisms like the two Axis powers mentioned) can clearly and easily be described in such term. But all that being said, despite the horror of the nukings, despite the dramatic impact that it had, despite all the claims that Japan really was on the verge of surrender, let's get the facts straight. 1) Japan was not on the verge of surrender. Sure, it was slowly beginning to be discussed, and many claim that if we removed the abdication requirement of Hirohito that the war could have ended prior to the events in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This is nothing more that whitewashing the past and looking at the end of the war with 20/20 vision. This is what the Allies knew..... the Japanese became an overly fanatical and warlike country due in large part to the cult of personality that had formed around the mostly powerless emperor. Allied powers initially believed that keeping him in power would, in fact, just push off future conflicts much in the same way that Versailles merely delayed the endgame of WWI in Europe for a generation. Also, note how fanatical the resistance that Japanese soldiers gave on every single island that we battled over. We're talking about battles where 90%+ of the soldiers fought to the death and, in battles on islands with civilian populations, often ended in massacring their own people rather than let them fall into American hands (which a very pervasive propaganda machine led many to believe were raping monsters). Even more, note how even after the nukings were carried out, a portion of the military attempted to overthrow the emperor to prevent his surrender. With all this information in mind, the Allies clearly thought that the Japanese were willing to fight on. Continued in next post.... --- Irregardless, for all intensive purposes, I could care less. <cite>K181 posted [p:914062722] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>Admitted self-plagiarism, but I posted these thoughts a while ago and saved them: Here are my opinions. Was the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki horrific? Of course. Should we be proud of the fact that we're the only country to have engaged in nuclear war? Hell the ** no. Should we feel horrible for the suffering and pain that it caused, both on the victims, survivors, and national psyche of Japan? You'd better believe it. Was it justified? Damn right it was. World War II was, beyond any shadow of a doubt, the single most horrific event in human history. It was a truly global affair, with fatalities potentially as high as 75 million and casualties obviously therefore in the hundreds of millions (remember, casualties = killed + wounded + captured + missing). It utterly devastated two continents, wrecked havoc across dozens of countries, and almost wiped out a number of religious and ethnic groups, especially Jews and Gypsies. Atrocities were committed en masse. From the Bataan death march in the Philippines to the death camps in Poland to the rape of Nanjing to the firebombing of Tokyo and Dresden to untold numbers of massacres, rapes, and other crimes against humanity. It was a war that sometimes brought out the very best in human nature, but more often the very worst as well. Terms like evil are tossed around far too easily in today's parlance, but the death regimes of Japan and Germany and even the Soviet Union (albeit more to incompetence rather than deliberate mechanisms like the two Axis powers mentioned) can clearly and easily be described in such term. But all that being said, despite the horror of the nukings, despite the dramatic impact that it had, despite all the claims that Japan really was on the verge of surrender, let's get the facts straight. 1) Japan was not on the verge of surrender. Sure, it was slowly beginning to be discussed, and many claim that if we removed the abdication requirement of Hirohito that the war could have ended prior to the events in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This is nothing more that whitewashing the past and looking at the end of the war with 20/20 vision. This is what the Allies knew..... the Japanese became an overly fanatical and warlike country due in large part to the cult of personality that had formed around the mostly powerless emperor. Allied powers initially believed that keeping him in power would, in fact, just push off future conflicts much in the same way that Versailles merely delayed the endgame of WWI in Europe for a generation. Also, note how fanatical the resistance that Japanese soldiers gave on every single island that we battled over. We're talking about battles where 90%+ of the soldiers fought to the death and, in battles on islands with civilian populations, often ended in massacring their own people rather than let them fall into American hands (which a very pervasive propaganda machine led many to believe were raping monsters). Even more, note how even after the nukings were carried out, a portion of the military attempted to overthrow the emperor to prevent his surrender. With all this information in mind, the Allies clearly thought that the Japanese were willing to fight on. Continued in next post....</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
K181 12/13/18 1:47:56 PM #58:	.... continued from previous post. 2) With all that in mind, the costs of waging a land invasion of the Japanese mainland were, in short, astronomical. People may like to claim that their estimates were inflated, but that doesn't change the fact that American policy planners really believed that a land invasion would lead to the deaths and woundings of hundreds of thousands of Americans and the deaths of potentially tens of millions of Japanese. In fact, in preparation of the invasion, we began making en masse in preparation for the losses they expected to suffer. To this day, there are still 120,000 WWII era Purple Hearts in stock, despite all the ones that have been awarded in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere over the past six decades. 3) Logistically, there would've been only two alternatives to nuking or invading, either increased conventional bombing campaigns or enacting a blockade. Just to give you a reminder, more people died in a single day during the firebombing of Tokyo than died in either atomic blast. And a blockade of Japan would've resulted in mass starvation, as evident by the fact that Japan was already starving by the time that the bombs were dropped and by the fact that thousands of Japanese died from malnutrition-related problems in the weeks after the Occupation began, in spite of the massive amount of foodstuffs and medicine that MacArthur started sending in. 4) Look at the regional theater. China was still suffering losses in huge quantities. The Soviet Union was preparing to (and, indeed, did) invade Japanese Manchukuo (Manchuria). Had it not been for the dual punch of the Soviet invasion and the American nuking, you'd better believe that the Japanese would've tried to hold out even longer, Hirohito in power or not. Additionally, look what happened after the war. The Soviets were prepared to take all of Korea, but they stopped because the Americans asked them to. Do you really think that they would've stopped if America didn't display a willingness to use their exclusive nuclear power? Do you think that Korea would be better off right now if all of Korea was under Northern control? Instead of having one totalitarian regime and one thriving democracy on the peninsula, there'd just be a single totalitarian government. And, with all of Korea, so you think that the Soviets wouldn't have wanted a piece of Japan as well? They could have very well demanded a North and South Japan, which clearly would have worsened the situation for the Japanese up to this day. So, with all of this in mind, I really don't see how you could possibly say that the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't justified. It's not a matter of what's right. War is almost never like that. What it's a matter of is what is the lesser of two evils. Would you rather have inflicted horrific damage on a portion of a country in exchange for a better chance for peace, prosperity, and overall lower casualties or would you rather have a prolonged war with greater suffering, even more widespread destruction, greater fragmentation, and more potential for open conflicts? --- Irregardless, for all intensive purposes, I could care less. <cite>K181 posted [p:914062767] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>.... continued from previous post. 2) With all that in mind, the costs of waging a land invasion of the Japanese mainland were, in short, astronomical. People may like to claim that their estimates were inflated, but that doesn't change the fact that American policy planners really believed that a land invasion would lead to the deaths and woundings of hundreds of thousands of Americans and the deaths of potentially tens of millions of Japanese. In fact, in preparation of the invasion, we began making en masse in preparation for the losses they expected to suffer. To this day, there are still 120,000 WWII era Purple Hearts in stock, despite all the ones that have been awarded in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere over the past six decades. 3) Logistically, there would've been only two alternatives to nuking or invading, either increased conventional bombing campaigns or enacting a blockade. Just to give you a reminder, more people died in a single day during the firebombing of Tokyo than died in either atomic blast. And a blockade of Japan would've resulted in mass starvation, as evident by the fact that Japan was already starving by the time that the bombs were dropped and by the fact that thousands of Japanese died from malnutrition-related problems in the weeks after the Occupation began, in spite of the massive amount of foodstuffs and medicine that MacArthur started sending in. 4) Look at the regional theater. China was still suffering losses in huge quantities. The Soviet Union was preparing to (and, indeed, did) invade Japanese Manchukuo (Manchuria). Had it not been for the dual punch of the Soviet invasion and the American nuking, you'd better believe that the Japanese would've tried to hold out even longer, Hirohito in power or not. Additionally, look what happened after the war. The Soviets were prepared to take all of Korea, but they stopped because the Americans asked them to. Do you really think that they would've stopped if America didn't display a willingness to use their exclusive nuclear power? Do you think that Korea would be better off right now if all of Korea was under Northern control? Instead of having one totalitarian regime and one thriving democracy on the peninsula, there'd just be a single totalitarian government. And, with all of Korea, so you think that the Soviets wouldn't have wanted a piece of Japan as well? They could have very well demanded a North and South Japan, which clearly would have worsened the situation for the Japanese up to this day. So, with all of this in mind, I really don't see how you could possibly say that the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't justified. It's not a matter of what's right. War is almost never like that. What it's a matter of is what is the lesser of two evils. Would you rather have inflicted horrific damage on a portion of a country in exchange for a better chance for peace, prosperity, and overall lower casualties or would you rather have a prolonged war with greater suffering, even more widespread destruction, greater fragmentation, and more potential for open conflicts?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Garioshi 12/13/18 1:50:43 PM #59:	I really don't think there was a reason to use the first bomb on a civilian population, especially such a big one. --- "I play with myself" - Darklit_Minuet, 2018 <cite>Garioshi posted [p:914062918] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>I really don't think there was a reason to use the first bomb on a civilian population, especially such a big one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 12/13/18 1:51:01 PM #60:	K181 posted... self-plagiarism Not possible, unless you're John Fogerty. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:914062933] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>K181 posted...</cite> <quote>self-plagiarism</quote> Not possible, unless you're John Fogerty.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DeadSite 12/13/18 2:01:04 PM #61:	While in no way do I believe the loss of life is morally justifiable, I do think it's logically justifiable when you look at what was already happening during WW2. Fire bombs were killing just as many if not more citizens, with Japan's unrelenting leadership continuing the war. With the Soviet's growing ever closer to obtain Japan and pick up the pieces of their empire in their demise, America had to establish a foothold in Asia or "risk" losing them to the Soviets. While me being American obviously impacts my view of this, Russia having all of Asia to itself would be a scary proposition. A necessary evil when considering all the potential outcomes, unfortunately. --- https://i.imgtc.com/nHiYjIf.jpg https://i.imgtc.com/wZuUZZj.jpg https://i.imgtc.com/FWbvfL3.jpg https://i.imgtc.com/EeUncGa.png <cite>DeadSite posted [p:914063510] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>While in no way do I believe the loss of life is morally justifiable, I do think it's logically justifiable when you look at what was already happening during WW2. Fire bombs were killing just as many if not more citizens, with Japan's unrelenting leadership continuing the war. With the Soviet's growing ever closer to obtain Japan and pick up the pieces of their empire in their demise, America had to establish a foothold in Asia or "risk" losing them to the Soviets. While me being American obviously impacts my view of this, Russia having all of Asia to itself would be a scary proposition. A necessary evil when considering all the potential outcomes, unfortunately.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
josifrees 12/13/18 2:09:10 PM #62:	61.82% of voters are brainwashed --- Quit Crying <cite>josifrees posted [p:914063954] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>61.82% of voters are brainwashed</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EbonTitanium 12/13/18 2:11:08 PM #63:	Weren't the Japanese told to commit suicide because the Americans will do horrible things to them? --- I don't know which is worse: fanboys or elitist. <cite>EbonTitanium posted [p:914064064] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>Weren't the Japanese told to commit suicide because the Americans will do horrible things to them?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 12/13/18 2:14:10 PM #64:	EbonTitanium posted... Weren't the Japanese told to commit suicide because the Americans will do horrible things to them? Well... America has been slowly poisoning Japan with KFC over the past several decades, yeah. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:914064202] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>EbonTitanium posted...</cite> <quote>Weren't the Japanese told to commit suicide because the Americans will do horrible things to them?</quote> Well... America has been slowly poisoning Japan with KFC over the past several decades, yeah.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Omnislasher 12/13/18 2:47:08 PM #65:	josifrees posted... 61.82% of voters are brainwashed <cite>Omnislasher posted [p:914065860] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>josifrees posted...</cite> <quote>61.82% of voters are brainwashed</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
skermac 12/13/18 3:00:59 PM #66:	0TiamaT0 posted... I see all of these people crying about Japanese civilians... Why should the US have had to sacrifice tens of thousands of more men, when Japan started the war to begin with? What about all of the civilians that the Japanese tortured and experimented on? Why dont they matter? they matter but it doesn't justify killing more civilians, in other words 2 wrongs dont make it right --- To the edge of the universe and back, endure and survive <cite>skermac posted [p:914066552] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>0TiamaT0 posted...</cite> <quote>I see all of these people crying about Japanese civilians... Why should the US have had to sacrifice tens of thousands of more men, when Japan started the war to begin with? What about all of the civilians that the Japanese tortured and experimented on? Why dont they matter?</quote> they matter but it doesn't justify killing more civilians, in other words 2 wrongs dont make it right</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JuliusSaci 12/13/18 3:01:43 PM #67:	If you dont want to get nuked, dont rape chinese children. --- Somos bandidos, Pablo. <cite>JuliusSaci posted [p:914066596] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>If you dont want to get nuked, dont rape chinese children.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
skermac 12/13/18 3:05:34 PM #68:	Genocet_10-325 posted... Anyone who says no is a fucking moron who knows nothing about history 1. A ground invasion of Japan would have killed far more civilians 2. It showed the world the destructive power of nukes, there's a reason they haven't been used in war since then we wouldn't have had to invade Japan, no one should believe that nonsense, we were steadily destroying their toops and ships and air force, it wouldn't have been long before they gave up anyway --- To the edge of the universe and back, endure and survive <cite>skermac posted [p:914066815] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>Genocet_10-325 posted...</cite> <quote>Anyone who says no is a fucking moron who knows nothing about history 1. A ground invasion of Japan would have killed far more civilians 2. It showed the world the destructive power of nukes, there's a reason they haven't been used in war since then</quote> we wouldn't have had to invade Japan, no one should believe that nonsense, we were steadily destroying their toops and ships and air force, it wouldn't have been long before they gave up anyway</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Omnislasher 12/13/18 3:06:28 PM #70:	JuliusSaci posted... If you dont want to get nuked, dont rape chinese children. civilians in hiroshima and nagasaki didnt rape any chinese children and that (obviously) had nothing to do with why the a-bombs were dropped anyway <cite>Omnislasher posted [p:914066862] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>JuliusSaci posted...</cite> <quote>If you dont want to get nuked, dont rape chinese children.</quote> civilians in hiroshima and nagasaki didnt rape any chinese children and that (obviously) had nothing to do with why the a-bombs were dropped anyway</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
skermac 12/13/18 3:06:55 PM #71:	darkjedilink posted... BeyondWalls posted... Genocet_10-325 posted... 1. A ground invasion of Japan would have killed far more civilians Isnt this argument flawed? It suggest only two options. (1) Bomb a civilian city or (2) Start a ground invasion of the country. We didnt have to pick a civilian city as a target. What other option was there? an industrial city making their weapons of war --- To the edge of the universe and back, endure and survive <cite>skermac posted [p:914066889] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>darkjedilink posted...</cite> <quote><cite>BeyondWalls posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Genocet_10-325 posted...</cite> <quote>1. A ground invasion of Japan would have killed far more civilians</quote> Isnt this argument flawed? It suggest only two options. (1) Bomb a civilian city or (2) Start a ground invasion of the country. We didnt have to pick a civilian city as a target.</quote> What other option was there?</quote> an industrial city making their weapons of war</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
skermac 12/13/18 3:09:26 PM #72:	im wondering why they only dropped 2? would it have been better to drop 10-20 the same day? --- To the edge of the universe and back, endure and survive <cite>skermac posted [p:914067014] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>im wondering why they only dropped 2? would it have been better to drop 10-20 the same day?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 12/13/18 3:09:33 PM #73:	skermac posted... an industrial city making their weapons of war those were already destroyed --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:914067020] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>skermac posted...</cite> <quote>an industrial city making their weapons of war </quote> those were already destroyed</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ModLogic 12/13/18 3:13:31 PM #74:	0TiamaT0 posted... People seem to forget that the Japanese committed wartime atrocities against civilians and POWs that rivaled - or in some cases were worse than what the nazis did. On top of that, an assault on mainland Japan would have cost tens of thousands of American lives. Dropping those bombs on Japan not only saved those lives, but ended a war that the Japanese started to begin with... people also forget that america helped those war criminals escape trials in exchange for research documents america also refused to state what they planned to do with the emperor until they dropped the second bomb. --- https://i.imgtc.com/PruZV73.png https://imgur.com/lbSi0U3 https://imgur.com/xaRYKZM https://imgur.com/ZngbqJn <cite>ModLogic posted [p:914067248] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>0TiamaT0 posted...</cite> <quote>People seem to forget that the Japanese committed wartime atrocities against civilians and POWs that rivaled - or in some cases were worse than what the nazis did. On top of that, an assault on mainland Japan would have cost tens of thousands of American lives. Dropping those bombs on Japan not only saved those lives, but ended a war that the Japanese started to begin with...</quote> people also forget that america helped those war criminals escape trials in exchange for research documents america also refused to state what they planned to do with the emperor until they dropped the second bomb.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PleaseClap 12/13/18 3:15:35 PM #75:	skermac posted... im wondering why they only dropped 2? would it have been better to drop 10-20 the same day? You should probably do some reading on this topic before posting --- Please <cite>PleaseClap posted [p:914067368] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>skermac posted...</cite> <quote>im wondering why they only dropped 2? would it have been better to drop 10-20 the same day?</quote> You should probably do some reading on this topic before posting</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JE19426 12/13/18 3:19:05 PM #76:	skermac posted... im wondering why they only dropped 2? would it have been better to drop 10-20 the same day? They only had 2 at the time, and they were dropped on different days. <cite>JE19426 posted [p:914067548] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>skermac posted...</cite> <quote>im wondering why they only dropped 2? would it have been better to drop 10-20 the same day?</quote> They only had 2 at the time, and they were dropped on different days.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamenRiderBlade 12/13/18 3:23:52 PM #77:	JE19426 posted... They only had 2 at the time, and they were dropped on different days. I believe we only had 3 ready and didn't want to use the 3rd due to the timely & costly endeavor of making one at that time since Nukes were a brand new invention. --- Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp '*Once Upon A Time in Mexico*' <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted [p:914067789] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>JE19426 posted...</cite> <quote>They only had 2 at the time, and they were dropped on different days.</quote>I believe we only had 3 ready and didn't want to use the 3rd due to the timely & costly endeavor of making one at that time since Nukes were a brand new invention.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 12/13/18 3:24:35 PM #78:	KamenRiderBlade posted... I believe we only had 3 ready and didn't want to use the 3rd due to the timely & costly endeavor of making one at that time. the third was used in Socorro, New Mexico in july 1945 with the information on its use and result broadcast to the world. prior to the bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki. --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:914067817] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>KamenRiderBlade posted...</cite> <quote>I believe we only had 3 ready and didn't want to use the 3rd due to the timely & costly endeavor of making one at that time. </quote> the third was used in Socorro, New Mexico in july 1945 with the information on its use and result broadcast to the world. prior to the bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ModLogic 12/13/18 3:27:44 PM #79:	truman was also a white supremacist https://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/trumanpapers/fbpa/index.php?documentid=HST-FBP_1-21_01&documentVersion=both --- https://i.imgtc.com/PruZV73.png https://imgur.com/lbSi0U3 https://imgur.com/xaRYKZM https://imgur.com/ZngbqJn <cite>ModLogic posted [p:914067977] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>truman was also a white supremacist https://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/trumanpapers/fbpa/index.php?documentid=HST-FBP_1-21_01&documentVersion=both</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ColdOne666 12/13/18 3:43:14 PM #80:	The bombs where a war crime that massacred hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. --- FFX is the best game of all time. The only good Nintendo franchises are Pokemon and Fire Emblem. Comics are for kids. https://imgur.com/LJ3WSyB Reylo Ship <cite>ColdOne666 posted [p:914068823] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>The bombs where a war crime that massacred hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JE19426 12/13/18 3:44:16 PM #81:	Darkman124 posted... the third was used in Socorro, New Mexico in july 1945 with the information on its use and result broadcast to the world. prior to the bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki. Actually the information on it's blast was revealed after Hiroshima was bombed. Before then, they were very vague. Here's a newspaper clipping from back then: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/3985915/clovis_newsjournal/ <cite>JE19426 posted [p:914068872] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>Darkman124 posted...</cite> <quote>the third was used in Socorro, New Mexico in july 1945 with the information on its use and result broadcast to the world. prior to the bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki.</quote> Actually the information on it's blast was revealed after Hiroshima was bombed. Before then, they were very vague. Here's a newspaper clipping from back then: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/3985915/clovis_newsjournal/</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DirkDiggles 12/13/18 5:17:51 PM #82:	WheezinEd posted... And how can you say they were any less justified than us? Well, it brought them to their knees and got them to stop. --- https://imgtc.com/i/5CTKeaL.jpg https://imgtc.com/i/G9w39yE.gif <cite>DirkDiggles posted [p:914073827] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>WheezinEd posted...</cite> <quote>And how can you say they were any less justified than us? </quote> Well, it brought them to their knees and got them to stop.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NotWhiteNinja 12/13/18 5:19:21 PM #83:	Nagasaki was undeniably unjustified. Russia turning against Japan was the biggest factor in ending the war, and that happened before the Nagasaki bombing - Japan's officials weren't even aware of the Nagasaki bombing yet at the time they decided to surrender. (They were aware of the Hiroshima one, including specifically being aware it was indeed an atomic bomb.) Hiroshima is a bit more debatable, but I'd still say no. With that being said, it's important to remember that in the context of WW2 the atomic bombs were not unique in the scale of destruction or number of casualties. The only thing unique about them was the method of inflicting said destruction. Heck, the Operation Meetinghouse raid on Tokyo - done entirely with conventional bombs - caused more destruction and death than both nukes combined. (Now with all that being said, it's also important to note that the same would not be true of nuclear war today. These were very primitive nuclear weapons; today's ones are over 100 times as powerful.) --- Nope. I'm totally not the white ninja. You're confusing me with someone else. <cite>NotWhiteNinja posted [p:914073893] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>Nagasaki was undeniably unjustified. Russia turning against Japan was the biggest factor in ending the war, and that happened before the Nagasaki bombing - Japan's officials weren't even aware of the Nagasaki bombing yet at the time they decided to surrender. (They were aware of the Hiroshima one, including specifically being aware it was indeed an atomic bomb.) Hiroshima is a bit more debatable, but I'd still say no. With that being said, it's important to remember that in the context of WW2 the atomic bombs were not unique in the scale of destruction or number of casualties. The only thing unique about them was the method of inflicting said destruction. Heck, the Operation Meetinghouse raid on Tokyo - done entirely with conventional bombs - caused more destruction and death than both nukes combined. (Now with all that being said, it's also important to note that the same would not be true of nuclear war today. These were very primitive nuclear weapons; today's ones are over 100 times as powerful.)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Trigg3rH4ppy 12/13/18 5:20:28 PM #84:	Questionmarktarius posted... As explained by a failed haberdasher and mafia patsy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN_UJJ9ObDs" data-time=" Failed? Bro it was the great depression when his business went under. 1921 I believe to be precise. --- ~A little nonsense, now and then, is relished by the wisest men ~ TWSSted since~ 3/27/12 https://imgur.com/zlaENmx <cite>Trigg3rH4ppy posted [p:914073949] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>Questionmarktarius posted...</cite> <quote>As explained by a failed haberdasher and mafia patsy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN_UJJ9ObDs" data-time="</quote> Failed? Bro it was the great depression when his business went under. 1921 I believe to be precise.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shokan_warrior 12/13/18 5:22:51 PM #85:	I like Japan but MAAAAAAAAN I'm getting sick of all this milking of the bombs Unit 731 and nanking do not real i guess Pearl Harbor not real Bataan not real. A "genocidal" mass murder rivaling the shoah gets a pass because of "muh nagasaki" I'm still going to view Imperial Japan as a mighty foe but man this trashy sob story needs to die --- never don't give up <cite>shokan_warrior posted [p:914074081] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>I like Japan but MAAAAAAAAN I'm getting sick of all this milking of the bombs Unit 731 and nanking do not real i guess Pearl Harbor not real Bataan not real. A "genocidal" mass murder rivaling the shoah gets a pass because of "muh nagasaki" I'm still going to view Imperial Japan as a mighty foe but man this trashy sob story needs to die</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NotWhiteNinja 12/13/18 5:24:43 PM #86:	shokan_warrior posted... I like Japan but MAAAAAAAAN I'm getting sick of all this milking of the bombs Unit 731 and nanking do not real i guess Pearl Harbor not real Bataan not real. A "genocidal" mass murder rivaling the shoah gets a pass because of "muh nagasaki" I'm still going to view Imperial Japan as a mighty foe but man this trashy sob story needs to die I think it's not so much "Japan did nothing wrong", more "Two wrongs don't make a right" - or perhaps that the Japanese civilians who constituted the majority of the deaths didn't themselves do anything wrong, they simply happened to live in a country that did a lot wrong. --- Nope. I'm totally not the white ninja. You're confusing me with someone else. <cite>NotWhiteNinja posted [p:914074192] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>shokan_warrior posted...</cite> <quote>I like Japan but MAAAAAAAAN I'm getting sick of all this milking of the bombs Unit 731 and nanking do not real i guess Pearl Harbor not real Bataan not real. A "genocidal" mass murder rivaling the shoah gets a pass because of "muh nagasaki" I'm still going to view Imperial Japan as a mighty foe but man this trashy sob story needs to die</quote> I think it's not so much "Japan did nothing wrong", more "Two wrongs don't make a right" - or perhaps that the Japanese civilians who constituted the majority of the deaths didn't themselves do anything wrong, they simply happened to live in a country that did a lot wrong.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shokan_warrior 12/13/18 5:26:22 PM #87:	There's no need for justification.. It happened And given the alternatives and context it might as well be justified The world was TIRED of fighting The plans for the invasion of Japan itself included atomic bombs dropped whenever available NOONE at the time was considering mercy but the Allies held the moral high ground --- never don't give up <cite>shokan_warrior posted [p:914074273] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>There's no need for justification.. It happened And given the alternatives and context it might as well be justified The world was TIRED of fighting The plans for the invasion of Japan itself included atomic bombs dropped whenever available NOONE at the time was considering mercy but the Allies held the moral high ground</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shokan_warrior 12/13/18 5:30:08 PM #88:	NotWhiteNinja posted... shokan_warrior posted... I like Japan but MAAAAAAAAN I'm getting sick of all this milking of the bombs Unit 731 and nanking do not real i guess Pearl Harbor not real Bataan not real. A "genocidal" mass murder rivaling the shoah gets a pass because of "muh nagasaki" I'm still going to view Imperial Japan as a mighty foe but man this trashy sob story needs to die I think it's not so much "Japan did nothing wrong", more "Two wrongs don't make a right" - or perhaps that the Japanese civilians who constituted the majority of the deaths didn't themselves do anything wrong, they simply happened to live in a country that did a lot wrong. Xdddddd What about germany?? Some saybthe germans were fanatical supporters of Hitler and thus deserve eternal shame And also whites Somehow MANY GENERATIONS after the fact the descendants are blamed for atrocities like slavery Yet somehow the contemporary Japanese(of that time) are not guilty even though they were extra fanatical I will say that current Japanese are innocent but those alive at that time are pretty guilty And while we're at it, fuck Dresden, its not a war crime They should have bombed Hamburg, Frankfurt, Weimar, everything if they felt like it --- never don't give up <cite>shokan_warrior posted [p:914074459] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>NotWhiteNinja posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shokan_warrior posted...</cite> <quote>I like Japan but MAAAAAAAAN I'm getting sick of all this milking of the bombs Unit 731 and nanking do not real i guess Pearl Harbor not real Bataan not real. A "genocidal" mass murder rivaling the shoah gets a pass because of "muh nagasaki" I'm still going to view Imperial Japan as a mighty foe but man this trashy sob story needs to die</quote> I think it's not so much "Japan did nothing wrong", more "Two wrongs don't make a right" - or perhaps that the Japanese civilians who constituted the majority of the deaths didn't themselves do anything wrong, they simply happened to live in a country that did a lot wrong.</quote> Xdddddd What about germany?? Some saybthe germans were fanatical supporters of Hitler and thus deserve eternal shame And also whites Somehow MANY GENERATIONS after the fact the descendants are blamed for atrocities like slavery Yet somehow the contemporary Japanese(of that time) are not guilty even though they were extra fanatical I will say that current Japanese are innocent but those alive at that time are pretty guilty And while we're at it, fuck Dresden, its not a war crime They should have bombed Hamburg, Frankfurt, Weimar, everything if they felt like it</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Yomi 12/13/18 5:33:11 PM #89:	--- Chez moi, il fait beau. <cite>Yomi posted [p:914074614] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote> --- Chez moi, il fait beau.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NotWhiteNinja 12/13/18 5:36:11 PM #90:	shokan_warrior posted... NotWhiteNinja posted... shokan_warrior posted... I like Japan but MAAAAAAAAN I'm getting sick of all this milking of the bombs Unit 731 and nanking do not real i guess Pearl Harbor not real Bataan not real. A "genocidal" mass murder rivaling the shoah gets a pass because of "muh nagasaki" I'm still going to view Imperial Japan as a mighty foe but man this trashy sob story needs to die I think it's not so much "Japan did nothing wrong", more "Two wrongs don't make a right" - or perhaps that the Japanese civilians who constituted the majority of the deaths didn't themselves do anything wrong, they simply happened to live in a country that did a lot wrong. Xdddddd What about germany?? Some saybthe germans were fanatical supporters of Hitler and thus deserve eternal shame And also whites Somehow MANY GENERATIONS after the fact the descendants are blamed for atrocities like slavery Yet somehow the contemporary Japanese(of that time) are not guilty even though they were extra fanatical I will say that current Japanese are innocent but those alive at that time are pretty guilty And while we're at it, fuck Dresden, its not a war crime They should have bombed Hamburg, Frankfurt, Weimar, everything if they felt like it That blaming of contemporary people for slavery is wrong too. Germans who outright supported Hitler are guilty. Those who didn't, or (debatably - I could see room to disagree on this one) those who did so only because of the consequence of not doing so, are not. --- Nope. I'm totally not the white ninja. You're confusing me with someone else. <cite>NotWhiteNinja posted [p:914074752] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>shokan_warrior posted...</cite> <quote><cite>NotWhiteNinja posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shokan_warrior posted...</cite> <quote>I like Japan but MAAAAAAAAN I'm getting sick of all this milking of the bombs Unit 731 and nanking do not real i guess Pearl Harbor not real Bataan not real. A "genocidal" mass murder rivaling the shoah gets a pass because of "muh nagasaki" I'm still going to view Imperial Japan as a mighty foe but man this trashy sob story needs to die</quote> I think it's not so much "Japan did nothing wrong", more "Two wrongs don't make a right" - or perhaps that the Japanese civilians who constituted the majority of the deaths didn't themselves do anything wrong, they simply happened to live in a country that did a lot wrong.</quote> Xdddddd What about germany?? Some saybthe germans were fanatical supporters of Hitler and thus deserve eternal shame And also whites Somehow MANY GENERATIONS after the fact the descendants are blamed for atrocities like slavery Yet somehow the contemporary Japanese(of that time) are not guilty even though they were extra fanatical I will say that current Japanese are innocent but those alive at that time are pretty guilty And while we're at it, fuck Dresden, its not a war crime They should have bombed Hamburg, Frankfurt, Weimar, everything if they felt like it</quote> That blaming of contemporary people for slavery is wrong too. Germans who outright supported Hitler are guilty. Those who didn't, or (debatably - I could see room to disagree on this one) those who did so only because of the consequence of not doing so, are not.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Questionmarktarius 12/13/18 5:36:54 PM #91:	Trigg3rH4ppy posted... Failed? Bro it was the great depression when his business went under. 1921 I believe to be precise. He wasn't that great at being a mafia patsy either. <cite>Questionmarktarius posted [p:914074795] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>Trigg3rH4ppy posted...</cite> <quote>Failed? Bro it was the great depression when his business went under. 1921 I believe to be precise.</quote> He wasn't that great at being a mafia patsy either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
skermac 12/13/18 8:11:50 PM #92:	shokan_warrior posted... NotWhiteNinja posted... shokan_warrior posted... I like Japan but MAAAAAAAAN I'm getting sick of all this milking of the bombs Unit 731 and nanking do not real i guess Pearl Harbor not real Bataan not real. A "genocidal" mass murder rivaling the shoah gets a pass because of "muh nagasaki" I'm still going to view Imperial Japan as a mighty foe but man this trashy sob story needs to die I think it's not so much "Japan did nothing wrong", more "Two wrongs don't make a right" - or perhaps that the Japanese civilians who constituted the majority of the deaths didn't themselves do anything wrong, they simply happened to live in a country that did a lot wrong. Xdddddd What about germany?? Some saybthe germans were fanatical supporters of Hitler and thus deserve eternal shame And also whites Somehow MANY GENERATIONS after the fact the descendants are blamed for atrocities like slavery Yet somehow the contemporary Japanese(of that time) are not guilty even though they were extra fanatical I will say that current Japanese are innocent but those alive at that time are pretty guilty And while we're at it, fuck Dresden, its not a war crime They should have bombed Hamburg, Frankfurt, Weimar, everything if they felt like it the germans were not fanatical hitler lovers, they probably loved their country but they grew to hate hitler and most of them wanted him dead but couldn't get close enough to get him. I doubt Japanese people were any different back then. --- To the edge of the universe and back, endure and survive <cite>skermac posted [p:914082554] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>shokan_warrior posted...</cite> <quote><cite>NotWhiteNinja posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shokan_warrior posted...</cite> <quote>I like Japan but MAAAAAAAAN I'm getting sick of all this milking of the bombs Unit 731 and nanking do not real i guess Pearl Harbor not real Bataan not real. A "genocidal" mass murder rivaling the shoah gets a pass because of "muh nagasaki" I'm still going to view Imperial Japan as a mighty foe but man this trashy sob story needs to die</quote> I think it's not so much "Japan did nothing wrong", more "Two wrongs don't make a right" - or perhaps that the Japanese civilians who constituted the majority of the deaths didn't themselves do anything wrong, they simply happened to live in a country that did a lot wrong.</quote> Xdddddd What about germany?? Some saybthe germans were fanatical supporters of Hitler and thus deserve eternal shame And also whites Somehow MANY GENERATIONS after the fact the descendants are blamed for atrocities like slavery Yet somehow the contemporary Japanese(of that time) are not guilty even though they were extra fanatical I will say that current Japanese are innocent but those alive at that time are pretty guilty And while we're at it, fuck Dresden, its not a war crime They should have bombed Hamburg, Frankfurt, Weimar, everything if they felt like it</quote> the germans were not fanatical hitler lovers, they probably loved their country but they grew to hate hitler and most of them wanted him dead but couldn't get close enough to get him. I doubt Japanese people were any different back then.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anti-245 12/13/18 8:14:00 PM #93:	shokan_warrior posted... NotWhiteNinja posted... shokan_warrior posted... I like Japan but MAAAAAAAAN I'm getting sick of all this milking of the bombs Unit 731 and nanking do not real i guess Pearl Harbor not real Bataan not real. A "genocidal" mass murder rivaling the shoah gets a pass because of "muh nagasaki" I'm still going to view Imperial Japan as a mighty foe but man this trashy sob story needs to die I think it's not so much "Japan did nothing wrong", more "Two wrongs don't make a right" - or perhaps that the Japanese civilians who constituted the majority of the deaths didn't themselves do anything wrong, they simply happened to live in a country that did a lot wrong. Xdddddd What about germany?? Some saybthe germans were fanatical supporters of Hitler and thus deserve eternal shame And also whites Somehow MANY GENERATIONS after the fact the descendants are blamed for atrocities like slavery Yet somehow the contemporary Japanese(of that time) are not guilty even though they were extra fanatical I will say that current Japanese are innocent but those alive at that time are pretty guilty And while we're at it, fuck Dresden, its not a war crime They should have bombed Hamburg, Frankfurt, Weimar, everything if they felt like it You're seriously comparing bombing Japanese civilians to acknowledging white Americans who benefited from Jim Crow and chattel slavery? --- Life in the DoB. <cite>Anti-245 posted [p:914082683] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>shokan_warrior posted...</cite> <quote><cite>NotWhiteNinja posted...</cite> <quote><cite>shokan_warrior posted...</cite> <quote>I like Japan but MAAAAAAAAN I'm getting sick of all this milking of the bombs Unit 731 and nanking do not real i guess Pearl Harbor not real Bataan not real. A "genocidal" mass murder rivaling the shoah gets a pass because of "muh nagasaki" I'm still going to view Imperial Japan as a mighty foe but man this trashy sob story needs to die</quote> I think it's not so much "Japan did nothing wrong", more "Two wrongs don't make a right" - or perhaps that the Japanese civilians who constituted the majority of the deaths didn't themselves do anything wrong, they simply happened to live in a country that did a lot wrong.</quote> Xdddddd What about germany?? Some saybthe germans were fanatical supporters of Hitler and thus deserve eternal shame And also whites Somehow MANY GENERATIONS after the fact the descendants are blamed for atrocities like slavery Yet somehow the contemporary Japanese(of that time) are not guilty even though they were extra fanatical I will say that current Japanese are innocent but those alive at that time are pretty guilty And while we're at it, fuck Dresden, its not a war crime They should have bombed Hamburg, Frankfurt, Weimar, everything if they felt like it</quote> You're seriously comparing bombing Japanese civilians to acknowledging white Americans who benefited from Jim Crow and chattel slavery?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Middle hope 12/13/18 8:16:12 PM #94:	They shouldnt have tried to write a check they couldn't cash --- \|)\|_ \|_\_/\|)\|_\|)\| - RE expert44 \|\\|__ \|__/\\| \|__\|\_\| This is RE expert44 (b^.^b)Have a nice day... <cite>Middle hope posted [p:914082822] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>They shouldnt have tried to write a check they couldn't cash</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/14/18 3:57:17 AM #95:	Middle hope posted... They shouldnt have tried to write a check they couldn't cash wut --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:914101556] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>Middle hope posted...</cite> <quote>They shouldnt have tried to write a check they couldn't cash</quote> wut</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Too_Many_Limes 12/14/18 4:57:49 AM #96:	I think he's saying that the ultimate blame for the bombings lies with Japan. They started a war they couldn't win and are thus responsible for bringing it right to their doorsteps. It's a salient point. Consider this quote from Yamamoto prior to the start of the war: Should hostilities once break out between Japan and the United States, it is not enough that we take Guam and the Philippines, nor even Hawaii and San Francisco. To make victory certain, we would have to march into Washington and dictate the terms of peace in the White House The American press ate that quote up at the time as evidence of Japanese arrogance, but it was a word of caution directed at the Japanese government. From this quote, and others attributed to him, its clear Yamamoto saw that Japan was starting a fight that it was not capable of winning. To the point at hand, its a question that can't really be answered as both sides have valid points. Yes, the bombings inflicted catastrophic casualties upon Japanese civilians and targeted them primarily. At the same time though, considering the circumstances, how could Truman and other American military leaders justify any other option? Imagine the blowback had it come out after the war that America might have been able to end the war quickly and decisively with practically no American casualties, but elected to invade instead resulting in the death or injury of hundreds of thousands of American servicemen? As for Japanese readiness to surrender, they weren't prepared to surrender before Hiroshima nor after it. Witness accounts from cabinet meetings have stated that they believed the United States was bluffing when it said it had more atomic weapons ready in hand. The shattering of that belief, combined with a surprise invasion from the Soviet Union is what brought the war to its conclusion and even then there were those who resisted right to the end. --- Scoop #5: Borash tried to interview Bigfoot, but he ran away, Borash suggested if we dance hard enough he will come back <cite>Too_Many_Limes posted [p:914102718] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>I think he's saying that the ultimate blame for the bombings lies with Japan. They started a war they couldn't win and are thus responsible for bringing it right to their doorsteps. It's a salient point. Consider this quote from Yamamoto prior to the start of the war: <quote>Should hostilities once break out between Japan and the United States, it is not enough that we take Guam and the Philippines, nor even Hawaii and San Francisco. To make victory certain, we would have to march into Washington and dictate the terms of peace in the White House</quote> The American press ate that quote up at the time as evidence of Japanese arrogance, but it was a word of caution directed at the Japanese government. From this quote, and others attributed to him, its clear Yamamoto saw that Japan was starting a fight that it was not capable of winning. To the point at hand, its a question that can't really be answered as both sides have valid points. Yes, the bombings inflicted catastrophic casualties upon Japanese civilians and targeted them primarily. At the same time though, considering the circumstances, how could Truman and other American military leaders justify any other option? Imagine the blowback had it come out after the war that America might have been able to end the war quickly and decisively with practically no American casualties, but elected to invade instead resulting in the death or injury of hundreds of thousands of American servicemen? As for Japanese readiness to surrender, they weren't prepared to surrender before Hiroshima nor after it. Witness accounts from cabinet meetings have stated that they believed the United States was bluffing when it said it had more atomic weapons ready in hand. The shattering of that belief, combined with a surprise invasion from the Soviet Union is what brought the war to its conclusion and even then there were those who resisted right to the end.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
bknight 12/14/18 5:10:48 AM #97:	Yea, it displayed the power of the atomic bomb to the world and made war between super powers a zero sum game. We'll never have to live in fear of our cities getting fire bombed by waves upon waves of bombers because the next world war will eliminate our species, hence why there has not been a major conflict involving multiple nations on a massive scale since WW2. <cite>bknight posted [p:914102944] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote>Yea, it displayed the power of the atomic bomb to the world and made war between super powers a zero sum game. We'll never have to live in fear of our cities getting fire bombed by waves upon waves of bombers because the next world war will eliminate our species, hence why there has not been a major conflict involving multiple nations on a massive scale since WW2.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Darkman124 12/14/18 8:46:09 AM #98:	NotWhiteNinja posted... Nagasaki was undeniably unjustified. Russia turning against Japan was the biggest factor in ending the war, and that happened before the Nagasaki bombing - Japan's officials weren't even aware of the Nagasaki bombing yet at the time they decided to surrender. (They were aware of the Hiroshima one, including specifically being aware it was indeed an atomic bomb.) This is inaccurate. 1) The Hiroshima bombing yielded the first go-seidan (sacred decision of the emperor of Japan to overrule his high council, breaking their constitution, and ordering a surrender with only one term). This offer was sent to the western allies, who rejected it. Nagasaki had already been bombed at this point, but had not factored into the offer. 2) The Nagasaki bombing and Soviet entry yielded the second go-seidan, in which the Emperor offered to surrender unconditionally. Note the use of plural in the primary source document that records this event. The text makes it quite clear which of these was considered more significant to both the Emperor and his council. 3) The reason these decisions were even required was the high council itself could not agree on surrender terms, and the atom bombings forced the Emperor to act unilaterally. He did so once coincident with soviet entry/second atom bombing (the first go-seidan), in which the only information driving his decision was Hiroshima. The second was influenced by both Nagasaki and Operation August Storm. Suggesting that August Storm alone was the driving reason is extreme historical revisionism. 4) If anything, the Soviet action had more impact on the allies, as there was great fear that allowing the operation to complete would result in communism controlling all of southeast asia. This is the primary source document that showcases the first go-seidan, in which the Emperor declared Japan would surrender only with the term that the Imperial house be unaffected. It was decided upon conicident with and uninfluenced by Nagasaki, and released to the allies after Nagasaki had occurred. It was rejected. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nukevault/ebb525-The-Atomic-Bomb-and-the-End-of-World-War-II/documents/075.pdf This is the primary source document that showcases the second go-seidan, in which the Emperor declared that Japan would surrender unconditionally. A military coup was launched the next day to stop it. The coup failed. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nukevault/ebb525-The-Atomic-Bomb-and-the-End-of-World-War-II/documents/089.pdf --- And when the hourglass has run out, eternity asks you about only one thing: whether you have lived in despair or not. <cite>Darkman124 posted [p:914107728] in Was the at... [t:77298109]...</cite> <quote><cite>NotWhiteNinja posted...</cite> <quote>Nagasaki was undeniably unjustified. Russia turning against Japan was the biggest factor in ending the war, and that happened before the Nagasaki bombing - Japan's officials weren't even aware of the Nagasaki bombing yet at the time they decided to surrender. (They were aware of the Hiroshima one, including specifically being aware it was indeed an atomic bomb.)</quote> This is inaccurate. 1) The Hiroshima bombing yielded the first go-seidan (sacred decision of the emperor of Japan to overrule his high council, breaking their constitution, and ordering a surrender with only one term). This offer was sent to the western allies, who rejected it. Nagasaki had already been bombed at this point, but had not factored into the offer. 2) The Nagasaki bombing and Soviet entry yielded the second go-seidan, in which the Emperor offered to surrender unconditionally. Note the use of plural in the primary source document that records this event. The text makes it quite clear which of these was considered more significant to both the Emperor and his council. 3) The reason these decisions were even required was the high council itself could not agree on surrender terms, and the atom bombings forced the Emperor to act unilaterally. He did so once coincident with soviet entry/second atom bombing (the first go-seidan), in which the only information driving his decision was Hiroshima. The second was influenced by both Nagasaki and Operation August Storm. Suggesting that August Storm alone was the driving reason is extreme historical revisionism. 4) If anything, the Soviet action had more impact on the allies, as there was great fear that allowing the operation to complete would result in communism controlling all of southeast asia. This is the primary source document that showcases the first go-seidan, in which the Emperor declared Japan would surrender only with the term that the Imperial house be unaffected. It was decided upon conicident with and uninfluenced by Nagasaki, and released to the allies after Nagasaki had occurred. It was rejected. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nukevault/ebb525-The-Atomic-Bomb-and-the-End-of-World-War-II/documents/075.pdf This is the primary source document that showcases the second go-seidan, in which the Emperor declared that Japan would surrender unconditionally. A military coup was launched the next day to stop it. The coup failed. https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/nukevault/ebb525-The-Atomic-Bomb-and-the-End-of-World-War-II/documents/089.pdf</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Was the atomic bombing of Japan justified? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Was the atomic bombing of Japan justified?