Current Events > Does the women's USA soccer team deserves the title as best USA soccer team?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Seems like there's two points of view:

A) The women's team has reached the top level of the game which is more than you can say for the USA men's team, therefore they are the best USA soccer team

OR

B) The women's soccer team would still lose against the men's team in all likelihood, therefore they are not the best USA soccer team

In the interests of not making this seem like an UR style topic, I agree with A.
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b
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they should be heralded as world champions without qualification and without the need to either disparage or elevate them by reference to the mens team
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There's only one way to settle this...

Until they face off in at least a couple of games we can only say that they are the best women's (official) USA soccerfootball team.
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NinjaBreakfast posted...

they should be heralded as world champions without qualification and without the need to either disparage or elevate them by reference to the mens team

That...is probably the better opinion
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Consider their competition compared to the men's team. Consider how they get stomped in friendly matches with high school boys. Then on top of this they still have no grace or good sportsmanship when they win. Easy B.
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Kolibri X posted...

Consider their competition compared to the men's team. Consider how they get stomped in friendly matches with high school boys. Then on top of this they still have no grace or good sportsmanship when they win. Easy B.

I honestly don't think them losing to high school boys is a relevant comparison to make, no more than a comparison of a team of athletes who have been allowed to take a 6 year anabolic steroid course versus a team that hasn't. You'd expect the roidheads to win in any case, and wouldn't consider them better for it.
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B, dey'd lose to a team of fit CEmen lol
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NinjaBreakfast posted...

they should be heralded as world champions without qualification and without the need to either disparage or elevate them by reference to the mens team

I was going to respond differently until I saw this. This is the best choice for this whole stupid argument.
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pinky0926 posted...

Kolibri X posted...

Consider their competition compared to the men's team. Consider how they get stomped in friendly matches with high school boys. Then on top of this they still have no grace or good sportsmanship when they win. Easy B.

I honestly don't think them losing to high school boys is a relevant comparison to make, no more than a comparison of a team of athletes who have been allowed to take a 6 year anabolic steroid course versus a team that hasn't. You'd expect the roidheads to win in any case, and wouldn't consider them better for it.

I think it is fair of we are going to view them as the best soccer team in the US, all things considered equal.
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Kolibri X posted...

I think it is fair of we are going to view them as the best soccer team in the US, all things considered equal.

But all things are not equal. One team has been getting pumped with tailor-made steroids since age 12, the other has in that time instead been getting pumped with hormones that make them effectively fatter.

If we were talking UFC, you would acknowledge someone like Dominick Cruz as one of the greatest of all time, even though he would in all likelihood get absolutely demolished by even an average heavyweight fighter. We acknowledge that the scenarios are different and come up with "pound-for-pound" as a compromise term to describe the greatness.
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Best womens team in any sport we have, by far.

But that's just it. Just in womens leagues. They would get rolled harder by the USMNT than they did to Thailand. They wouldn't even beat the 18USMNT.

And there's no problem with that.
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literally nobody ever seriously starts talking about football teams being the 'best in [x country]' when talking about various level of national sides in that country, it's just shit people talk to rile up other people.
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Didnt they get beat by 15 year old boys? If you lose to high schoolers you are not the best team.
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Soccer in the USA is non existent popularity wise. People are only jumping on it because they have a marketing genius to make that one chick with the purple hair all popular.
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Johnny_Nutcase posted...

Soccer in the USA is non existent popularity wise.

This is simply untrue.
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Antifar posted...

Johnny_Nutcase posted...

Soccer in the USA is non existent popularity wise.

This is simply untrue.

Prove it. I don't know anyone that talks about it. It's all NFL, NBA, or college shit
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Johnny_Nutcase posted...

Antifar posted...

Johnny_Nutcase posted...

Soccer in the USA is non existent popularity wise.

This is simply untrue.

Prove it. I don't know anyone that talks about it. It's all NFL, NBA, or college shit

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellore/2019/04/26/soccers-growth-in-u-s-has-international-legends-buzzing/#7bf0f9c717f1
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Johnny_Nutcase posted...

Antifar posted...

Johnny_Nutcase posted...

Soccer in the USA is non existent popularity wise.

This is simply untrue.

Prove it. I don't know anyone that talks about it. It's all NFL, NBA, or college shit

15.9 million people watched the World Cup final, despite it kicking off at 11 a.m. Eastern:
https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/tv-ratings-womens-world-cup-final-fox-1203260884/

That's comparable to the games of this year's NBA Finals (obviously not a 1:1 comparison, but that is a primetime event)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals_television_ratings

4.8 million watched the Liga MX final
http://worldsoccertalk.com/2018/12/20/liga-mx-dominates-us-with-4-million-viewers-for-america-cruz-azul-final-on-univision/

3 Million watched the Champions League final
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2019/06/uefa-champions-league-final-viewership-univision-tnt/

Premier League viewership is on par with regular season NHL, despite games being played on weekend mornings:
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2017/05/premier-league-ratings-down-least-watched-season-nbc/
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2018/04/nhl-viewership-nbc-nbcsn-regular-season/

It is not on the level of the NBA or NFL, but to pretend it's non-existent is to bury your head in the sand
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pinky0926 posted...

I honestly don't think them losing to high school boys is a relevant comparison to make

You asked if they were the best soccer team in the USA. The answer is no because there are soccer teams in the USA that would beat them.
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Doesn't mater I don't watch it unless riots.
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B.

They're the best women's football players in the world. And that's the only correct way to put it.
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pinky0926 posted...

B) The women's soccer team would still lose against the men's team in all likelihood

You're acting like the women's team could even POSSIBLY stand a chance.

The men's team could play blindfolded and only run backwards and they'd still demolish them.

It's like comparing the strength of a weightlifting man to a fucking silverback gorilla.

clearaflagrantj posted...

pinky0926 posted...

B) The women's soccer team would still lose against the men's team in all likelihood

You're acting like the women's team could even POSSIBLY stand a chance.

The men's team could play blindfolded and only run backwards and they'd still demolish them.

It's like comparing the strength of a weightlifting man to a fucking silverback gorilla.

I did say in all likelihood, lol

Meaning I don't know if it's ever happened, but no reason to say otherwise
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I dont get why people are obsessed with comparing them. They're doing great in their league. Theres no reason to compare them to the men's team. Of course if they played the men they would lose that's the whole reason we have different gender leagues. Like people said they lost to high school boys they're not competing against men but they shouldn't have to. Let them have their accomplishments without soiling them with this dumb comparison
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Antifar posted...

Johnny_Nutcase posted...

Antifar posted...

Johnny_Nutcase posted...

Soccer in the USA is non existent popularity wise.

This is simply untrue.

Prove it. I don't know anyone that talks about it. It's all NFL, NBA, or college shit

15.9 million people watched the World Cup final, despite it kicking off at 11 a.m. Eastern:
https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/tv-ratings-womens-world-cup-final-fox-1203260884/

That's comparable to the games of this year's NBA Finals (obviously not a 1:1 comparison, but that is a primetime event)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Finals_television_ratings

4.8 million watched the Liga MX final
http://worldsoccertalk.com/2018/12/20/liga-mx-dominates-us-with-4-million-viewers-for-america-cruz-azul-final-on-univision/

3 Million watched the Champions League final
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2019/06/uefa-champions-league-final-viewership-univision-tnt/

Premier League viewership is on par with regular season NHL, despite games being played on weekend mornings:
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2017/05/premier-league-ratings-down-least-watched-season-nbc/
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2018/04/nhl-viewership-nbc-nbcsn-regular-season/

It is not on the level of the NBA or NFL, but to pretend it's non-existent is to bury your head in the sand

Again. The world cup is akin to the super bowl.

It's an event. It's a social commentary event. It's going to gain a ton of casual viewership because it is the world cup. No different then people tuning into the academy awards.

Add in a dash of nationalism. With the fact that the womens team wins. You have a recipe for viewership.

Using the world cup final as some sorta barometer to soccer popularity in the US is disingenuous.

That doesn't mean anything when it comes to general viewership when it isn't world cup time.
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chrono625 posted...

Again. The world cup is akin to the super bowl.

Did you read the entire post, be honest
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NinjaBreakfast posted...

chrono625 posted...

Again. The world cup is akin to the super bowl.

Did you read the entire post, be honest

Yes. How does that refute my point?

He's using international soccer leagues as a comparison to the world cup where the US has 300m people in it. International leagues get stupid numbers within their own countries.

The NBA finals would never get the same numbers because you have fans of teams that aren't relevant and thus they won't watch it. It's not a national event. Also add the fact it's a best of 7 series. Let me clarify here. The NBA got similar numbers in a 6 game series where the games started at 9PM and was not really a national event. Between a big market team and a small market team.

So 15.9m people watched the world cup out of 300m+ and that means soccer is relevant in the US?

Again. It's a cultural event. The super bowl hits like 50m+ viewership because it gathers a huge casual following because it's treated like an event rather than a sport.
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B

Just like you you would not call the best lightweight boxer the best boxer.
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I am not of fan of their poor sportsmanship.
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No
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chrono625 posted...

That doesn't mean anything when it comes to general viewership when it isn't world cup time.

I listed several things that do pertain to viewership when it isn't World Cup time!
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Antifar posted...

chrono625 posted...

That doesn't mean anything when it comes to general viewership when it isn't world cup time.

I listed several things that do pertain to viewership when it isn't World Cup time!

You listed international leagues that still get 6m viewers within america.

Does womens league soccer generate that on a weekly basis? That's my point.

The womens world cup obtained 15.9m for a multitude of reasons. And it being soccer wasn't the main one.

In other words, you're using the womens world cup as a means to show people that they care about soccer in general. And I'm showing you that people are watching the womens world cup for reasona other than it being soccer. Just like people who don't watch football that watch the superbowl.
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How about best at representing the country
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They're the best US Women's soccer team, that's all they need.

AssultTank posted...

Atlanta United games have been selling out Mercedes Benz Stadium... You know, where the Falcons play?

Make sure you add that like 30,000 seats are taken away for soccer games
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NinjaBreakfast posted...

they should be heralded as world champions without qualification and without the need to either disparage or elevate them by reference to the mens team

this is by far the most honest take
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DifferentialEquation posted...

B

Just like you you would not call the best lightweight boxer the best boxer.

What?

Floyd is the best ever.

Lomachenko is the best in the world right now.

Your argument doesn't make sense.
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Best? No

Most successful? Yes
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The mens team is trash but they would still beat the women's team.
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considering 15 year olds beat the US womens soccer team says alot.

But its also about the buy rates when it comes to how they get paid. There are legit more views on mens soccer than womens. that equals more money for the men. TV shows are no different, the more popular you are, the more viewed you are, the more you are paid.
take for example last year
Jim Parsons was the highest paid actor in 2018, along with 3 others from the same show.
after that, Mark Harmon.

the more popular you are, the more you get paid. and lets face it, Men love to watch women, but they have no skills on a soccer field.
but when it comes to female actors, Sofia Verga is the top actress from last year, nearly doubling what Jim Parsons made.
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The term pound for pound exists for a reason. When people say Lomachenko is the best boxer in the world they're not saying he'd beat heavyweights.

That said the USWNT has a huge advantage over their own opponents thanks to college athletics and the men don't. It's unfair to expect the mens team to be as successful.

chrono625 posted...

You listed international leagues that still get 6m viewers within america.

Does womens league soccer generate that on a weekly basis? That's my point.

I was responding to the claim that "soccer in the USA is non-existent popularity wise"
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The_OD posted...

There are legit more views on mens soccer than womens. that equals more money for the men.

The women's team generated more revenue for the USSF, the entity they are requesting more pay from. The two teams have their domestic broadcast rights sold as a package.
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They're more successful but their level of competition is much lower as women's soccer is a much less developed sport than men's soccer worldwide.

Anyway this discussion is pretty stupid. There's really no reason to compare two teams in totally different areas if competition. Is Clemson or New England the best football team of 2018? No one would even think of asking such a dumb question.
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Nope, that would be the Mexico's Mens team

Sometimes I do wonder when gender differentiation is and isnt necessary.

Womens soccer teams play on full-sized pitches with the same soccer balls as mens right? To me that seems like theyve nullified the aspects that would create a gulf.

Are issues like physical strength and endurance enough of a differentiator in a soccer game to still keep them apart? Its not meant to be a full-contact sport like American football so advantages like men having more mass than women on average shouldnt be a major influence.

A friendly, non-sanctioned game would be amazing, I think. People would turn out in droves to see something like that.
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Solid Sonic posted...

Sometimes I do wonder when gender differentiation is and isnt necessary.

Womens soccer teams play on full-sized pitches with the same soccer balls as mens right? To me that seems like theyve nullified the aspects that would create a gulf.

Are issues like physical strength and endurance enough of a differentiator in a soccer game to still keep them apart? Its not meant to be a full-contact sport like American football so advantages like men having more mass than women on average shouldnt be a major influence.

A friendly, non-sanctioned game would be amazing, I think. People would turn out in droves to see something like that.

They got beat by an under 15 boys team. Yes, at the highest levels of almost any sport, especially one as physically demanding as soccer, differences im biology do matter.
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