Current Events > Does the United States have a serious problem with mass shootings?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Is it a serious problem or just something blown out of proportion by the media?
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Statistically? No.

The odds of being involved in a mass shooting are incredibly small. The odds of being shot at a school are even smaller.

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Wasn't the media obsessed with serial killers in the 70s/80s?
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Funbazooka posted...

Wasn't the media obsessed with serial killers in the 70s/80s?

And Satan worshippers.

You're more likely to die by being kicked by a kangaroo than by being the victim of a mass shooting.

StucklnMyPants posted...

Statistically? No.

The odds of being involved in a mass shooting are incredibly small. The odds of being shot at a school are even smaller.

What must your chances of being killed be, before it's a problem?
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Are you statistically likely to die from one? No.

Are too damn many happening, regardless of statistics? Absolutely.
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It has a serious problem with violence compared to other first world countries and this is just one (highly covered by media) symptom of a societal problem with violence.
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No. Murica needs more guns ya hear
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Jetblackmoon posted...

Are you statistically likely to die from one? No.

Are too damn many happening, regardless of statistics? Absolutely.

This. Regardless of statistics we should take any steps we need to address this shit and try to prevent future shootings.
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Yes, no other country with guns has it occur at levels even close to ours. We have more each year than the rest of the world combined in like, the last decade. There's a few reasons it's an issue that only seems to affect Americana. Reasons I'd get modded for explaining.
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We need a special night where all crimes are legal, everyone would have guns and hammer and chainsaws, and we could all get it out of our system. That guy that bullies you at work, you go after him, your boss who a jack ass, chainsaw time, that girl that turned you down one time cause you're 5 feet tall, 9mm, then, it all goes back to normal after that night. We can call it the Reckoning, yea sounds good, guaranteed to lessen crime because less guns and more laws are obviously not working.

We have a problem sensationalizing them. For instance, it seems like every killer since Elliot Rodger leaves a manifesto behind now after he did it and it got widespread attention after what he did. He became a sympathetic character to a lot of people on the internet. Idk I just think releasing the names and all the details about their life to people creates a following that doesnt need to be made.
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Jetblackmoon posted...

Are you statistically likely to die from one? No.

Are too damn many happening, regardless of statistics? Absolutely.

This aligns to my views pretty well. Of the 40,000 gun deaths yearly, the vast majority are suicides. The rest are gang related, and a tiny blip is from mass shootings, negligent discharge, etc.
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gunplagirl posted...

Yes, no other country with guns has it occur at levels even close to ours. We have more each year than the rest of the world combined in like, the last decade. There's a few reasons it's an issue that only seems to affect Americana. Reasons I'd get modded for explaining.

A Boko Haram attack/raid has more of a death toll (from guns) in one instance than the average death toll in U.S. (mass) shootings over several months.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cameroon-security/boko-haram-attack-on-cameroon-island-kills-24-idUSKCN1TD289

Yes. But gun nuts will never admit there is a problem.
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i was just looking at spree shooting data - school shootings in particular - earlier this evening

we've always had guns, but the frequency - and general magnitude - has been rising since the 90s

folks will blame guns, but i fear there's far more to the equation that we're not discussing nearly enough, but that might prove inconvenient to certain interests, both public and private

that said, gun control is racist and classist
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Havent it raised pretty much every decade since 1900?
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gunplagirl posted...

Yes, no other country with guns has it occur at levels even close to ours. We have more each year than the rest of the world combined in like, the last decade. There's a few reasons it's an issue that only seems to affect Americana. Reasons I'd get modded for explaining.

I agree we have to wear masks and assault people because its fascism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019

As of June 30, 2019, 196 mass shootings have occurred in 2019 that fit the inclusion criteria of this article, resulting in 968 people being shot. Of those people, 196 have died.

You guys are only halfway through the year.

So yes.
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Yes.

It's practically like a third world country in that regard.
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HiddenRoar posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Yes, no other country with guns has it occur at levels even close to ours. We have more each year than the rest of the world combined in like, the last decade. There's a few reasons it's an issue that only seems to affect Americana. Reasons I'd get modded for explaining.

A Boko Haram attack/raid has more of a death toll (from guns) in one instance than the average death toll in U.S. (mass) shootings over several months.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cameroon-security/boko-haram-attack-on-cameroon-island-kills-24-idUSKCN1TD289

The assailants arrived in boats and attacked the islands eight military outposts, Darak mayor Ali Ramat told Reuters.

Comparing an actual act of war to school shootings. Of course a battle would have a higher death toll. The topic is about school shootings, though. Proclaiming that actual battles have higher death tolls than mass shootings seems somehow like you're trivializing mass shootings.
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TheMikh posted...

we've always had guns, but the frequency - and general magnitude - has been rising since the 90s

Like I said in my previous post, the media sensationalizes them. Since Columbine caused a big stir and the media gave the dudes so much attention to the point where they garnered a fandom and a bunch of kids got the bright idea to do the same thing and make everyone at the school so much pay for it. Because these kids feel like outcasts and they relate to these other shooters for sticking it to all the mean people after reading meticulous details and manifestos of these killers to the point where they're sympathetic and relatable. And to certain people who feel certain ways, their actions are justified.
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WaterLink posted...

TheMikh posted...

we've always had guns, but the frequency - and general magnitude - has been rising since the 90s

Like I said in my previous post, the media sensationalizes them. Since Columbine caused a big stir and the media gave the dudes so much attention to the point where they garnered a fandom and a bunch of kids got the bright idea to do the same thing and make everyone at the school so much pay for it. Because these kids feel like outcasts and they relate to these other shooters for sticking it to all the mean people after reading meticulous details and manifestos of these killers to the point where they're sympathetic and relatable. And to certain people who feel certain ways, their actions are justified.

So, what's the solution?
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HiddenRoar posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Yes, no other country with guns has it occur at levels even close to ours. We have more each year than the rest of the world combined in like, the last decade. There's a few reasons it's an issue that only seems to affect Americana. Reasons I'd get modded for explaining.

A Boko Haram attack/raid has more of a death toll (from guns) in one instance than the average death toll in U.S. (mass) shootings over several months.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cameroon-security/boko-haram-attack-on-cameroon-island-kills-24-idUSKCN1TD289

Way to post a bizarre comparison that has zero actual relevance to the topic at hand
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Maybe

HiddenRoar posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Yes, no other country with guns has it occur at levels even close to ours. We have more each year than the rest of the world combined in like, the last decade. There's a few reasons it's an issue that only seems to affect Americana. Reasons I'd get modded for explaining.

A Boko Haram attack/raid has more of a death toll (from guns) in one instance than the average death toll in U.S. (mass) shootings over several months.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cameroon-security/boko-haram-attack-on-cameroon-island-kills-24-idUSKCN1TD289

You're conflating a formal, organized terrorist group with standalone or very small group (max is what, 3 people plus a driver) carrying out attacks. Acts of war by an army. If you want to go with that logic, then you'd open up the right for me to just tally up all the deaths of people at the hands of the US military and all out private security forces serving abroad which in turn skyrockets our numbers. So. Maybe give some nuanced consideration before I start pulling up the millions of dead Iraqis from the war on terror.
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BaiusGaltar posted...

So, what's the solution?

I mean Pandora's box has kinda already been opened. And with the way the internet is these days it's kind of hard to prevent them from releasing their story themselves before they carry something out. Because honestly I wish they could find a way to stop them from releasing those things because that's their ultimate goal. Release their work so the world will read it and a good chunk of people will feel sorry for them and even agree with them and they'll be a part of history.

I just don't know how you prevent that these days because as soon as a tweet or a video or a document is uploaded like that someone else is going to download it and then it's on the internet forever.
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WaterLink posted...

BaiusGaltar posted...

So, what's the solution?

I mean Pandora's box has kinda already been opened. And with the way the internet is these days it's kind of hard to prevent them from releasing their story themselves before they carry something out. Because honestly I wish they could find a way to stop them from releasing those things because that's their ultimate goal. Release their work so the world will read it and a good chunk of people will feel sorry for them and even agree with them and they'll be a part of history.

I just don't know how you prevent that these days because as soon as a tweet or a video or a document is uploaded like that someone else is going to download it and then it's on the internet forever.

Doesn't it seem like it's a mental health issue, since it happens more in the Unites States? Do you think other countries just don't give them as much coverage, leading to lower rates?
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WaterLink posted...

TheMikh posted...

we've always had guns, but the frequency - and general magnitude - has been rising since the 90s

Like I said in my previous post, the media sensationalizes them. Since Columbine caused a big stir and the media gave the dudes so much attention to the point where they garnered a fandom and a bunch of kids got the bright idea to do the same thing and make everyone at the school so much pay for it. Because these kids feel like outcasts and they relate to these other shooters for sticking it to all the mean people after reading meticulous details and manifestos of these killers to the point where they're sympathetic and relatable. And to certain people who feel certain ways, their actions are justified.

Makes sense. Heard or perhaps read in the past about a vicious cycle where spree killers do their thing, the media reports on it excessively because fear and sensation makes the networks a killing in terms of viewership and ad revenue, and others seeking the same notoriety and media attention are then motivated to proceed with their own acts of violence. It's a disgusting symbiosis.

BaiusGaltar posted...

So, what's the solution?

it's probably time for 24 hour news to die, though in the age of social media and the excessive saturation of wannabe journalists... it's probably not so simple anymore
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BaiusGaltar posted...

Doesn't it seem like it's a mental health issue, since it happens more in the Unites States? Do you think other countries just don't give them as much coverage, leading to lower rates?

Of course it's a mental health issue. But we've had guns in this country since the beginning and there's been crazy people since before this country was formed, why has it become more widespread since the internet became more common?
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WaterLink posted...

BaiusGaltar posted...

Doesn't it seem like it's a mental health issue, since it happens more in the Unites States? Do you think other countries just don't give them as much coverage, leading to lower rates?

Of course it's a mental health issue. But we've had guns in this country since the beginning and there's been crazy people since before this country was formed, why has it become more widespread since the internet became more common?

Declining mental health seems like the biggest factor, by far.
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Especially when you consider roughly half of all gun deaths in the states are suicides.
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I mean, there's no real point blaming the news, these shootings happened before the media focused on them, it's a simple instance of correlation=/=causation. Most shooters are doing so to hurt or kill people they consider acceptable to kill.

For that matter, the sweeping majority of American mass shootings are carried out by people who would fit under all these descriptors:
White, cis het male, middle class background, history of domestic violence (usually as a party committing said acts), raised Christian, misogynist, Conservative views.

If it were really just an issue of bullying as a motivator, there'd be a lot more racial minority and especially LGBT teens from poor households carrying out these mass shootings.

Sure, you can probably make the argument that the descriptors I gave also describe the majority of people who commit suicide via gun, but I believe that the cause of that is rooted in the same general issues that motivate mass shootings.

Basically, people get raised in a background where they're expected to get things, and they are expected to get them easily, if they struggle with them they feel like failures and rather than considering maybe they're addressing the problems wrong or that the system (capitalism) is made to crush people underneath, they end up finding pages like MGTOW or white nationalist groups online and become more jaded towards other groups. In time that builds up their conviction and they end up trying to send a message to some made up enemy in their head, and that ends badly.
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BaiusGaltar posted...

WaterLink posted...

BaiusGaltar posted...

So, what's the solution?

I mean Pandora's box has kinda already been opened. And with the way the internet is these days it's kind of hard to prevent them from releasing their story themselves before they carry something out. Because honestly I wish they could find a way to stop them from releasing those things because that's their ultimate goal. Release their work so the world will read it and a good chunk of people will feel sorry for them and even agree with them and they'll be a part of history.

I just don't know how you prevent that these days because as soon as a tweet or a video or a document is uploaded like that someone else is going to download it and then it's on the internet forever.

Doesn't it seem like it's a mental health issue, since it happens more in the Unites States? Do you think other countries just don't give them as much coverage, leading to lower rates?

Utya had massive coverage, still didnt raise the shootings in Scandinavia.
The problem is the macho culture that exist in USA, going to a psychologist makes you weak, you should just shut up and man up instead. It barely exist any social nets that captures people in need of help before they believe that the only solution is to use a gun against others, and talking about it makes you a dirty communist that deserves to be thrown out from the country.
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BaiusGaltar posted...

WaterLink posted...

BaiusGaltar posted...

Doesn't it seem like it's a mental health issue, since it happens more in the Unites States? Do you think other countries just don't give them as much coverage, leading to lower rates?

Of course it's a mental health issue. But we've had guns in this country since the beginning and there's been crazy people since before this country was formed, why has it become more widespread since the internet became more common?

Declining mental health seems like the biggest factor, by far.

It's almost as if there are serious long-term consequences to being a first world country without a proper healthcare system, where profit margins take precedence over everything else.

Foppe posted...

Utya had massive coverage, still didnt raise the shootings in Scandinavia.
The problem is the macho culture that exist in USA, going to a psychologist makes you weak, you should just shut up and man up instead. It barely exist any social nets that captures people in need of help before they believe that the only solution is to use a gun against others, and talking about it makes you a dirty communist that deserves to be thrown out from the country.

While I agree with you, I'd just like to emphasize that we have a lot of macho culture as well. Not to the same extent, but an indicator IMO is to look at public perception of violence. Do people think violence is objectively wrong, or will they be like "aw hell yeah that guy deserved that beating".
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The media isn't to blame... This isn't something that happens in other countries (that's not to say it hasn't on rare occasions) - this is solely an American thing.

Mass shootings that get big media attention aren't the ones happening every day. And these happen because of how easy it is to access guns and how easily said guns can kill.

Ultimately, it comes down to gun control but apparently that's satan talk. Oh and the elephant in the room... the old second amendment... guess we can't amend an amendment?

Yes.
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The big mass shootings don't even stay in the public discourse or media for as long as they used to.

A guy massacred close to 60 people in Las Vegas and it's barely brought up anymore.
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Shootings? No problem

Letting red white and blue fabric touch the ground? Lock them up for life
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Cinderforge posted...

Ultimately, it comes down to gun control but apparently that's satan talk. Oh and the elephant in the room... the old second amendment... guess we can't amend an amendment?

Revoking the rights of people who haven't done anything wrong would be wrong, obviously.
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Darmik posted...

The big mass shootings don't even stay in the public discourse or media for as long as they used to.

A guy massacred close to 60 people in Las Vegas and it's barely brought up anymore.

That was a unique case because the culprit left behind no trace of motive or anything to indicate his mental state. They even dissected his brain in effort to find some kind of abnormality but nothing conclusive could be found.

On the whole a lot of mass shootings/killings seem to be a result of a toxic mix of social media amplifiying the reach of anti social behaviour and access to means to cause harm, the abundance of firearms available to be purchased freely is definitely not helping.

there will be no mass shooting if there is no one left to shoot.
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Ricemills posted...

there will be no mass shooting if there is no one left to shoot.

Can't find a good quality clip of that scene from Futurama with the penguins
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chairforceone posted...

Darmik posted...

The big mass shootings don't even stay in the public discourse or media for as long as they used to.

A guy massacred close to 60 people in Las Vegas and it's barely brought up anymore.

That was a unique case because the culprit left behind no trace of motive or anything to indicate his mental state. They even dissected his brain in effort to find some kind of abnormality but nothing conclusive could be found.

On the whole a lot of mass shootings/killings seem to be a result of a toxic mix of social media amplifiying the reach of anti social behaviour and access to means to cause harm, the abundance of firearms available to be purchased freely is definitely not helping.

some won't listen to some gun control because it infringes on the "right to bear arms", democrats constantly try to send legislation through but republicans wont have any of that.
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Yes

And I REALLY hate the people who respond to it with "it's being over-reported"

Because that doesn't address the actual problem. The amount it's being reported is irrelevant if it is something we shouldn't have in the first place.

If we had 2000 velociraptors loose in walmarts across the country and they were attacking and murdering visitors of walmarts but people were focusing on how CNN was reporting 20000 velociraptors and not 2000 it doesn't change the fucking fact that it's a big problem having loose velociraptors in our walmarts.
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kingdrake2 posted...

chairforceone posted...

Darmik posted...

The big mass shootings don't even stay in the public discourse or media for as long as they used to.

A guy massacred close to 60 people in Las Vegas and it's barely brought up anymore.

That was a unique case because the culprit left behind no trace of motive or anything to indicate his mental state. They even dissected his brain in effort to find some kind of abnormality but nothing conclusive could be found.

On the whole a lot of mass shootings/killings seem to be a result of a toxic mix of social media amplifiying the reach of anti social behaviour and access to means to cause harm, the abundance of firearms available to be purchased freely is definitely not helping.

some won't listen to some gun control because it infringes on the "right to bear arms", democrats constantly try to send legislation through but republicans wont have any of that.

It's not republicans so much as how powerful the NRA lobby is.

There are multiple measures that approx 90% of the country supports and most experts say would make a big difference in reducing the amount of shootings.
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StucklnMyPants posted...

Statistically? No.

wrong. wrong. wrong.
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