Current Events > There is no practical need to own a military combat weapon like an AR-15 or an

(+) Yeah! (+)

Well this is a topic

Yep

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Because TC is a fear mongerer.

I've done the studies and seen the numbers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States#Demographic_statistics
~324,227,000 people in the US

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/table/PST045215/00
~ 22.9% who are under 18, ergo 77.1% are adults

~ 249,979,017 who are of Gun Owning age

~ 5,852,180 have some sort of Felony that bars them from their 2nd Amendment Rights
= 2.341%

~ 21,700,000 people have significant or complete vision loss that impairs them from seeing targets at distance and Identifying them
~ These blind citizens would be a threat to the general public if they owned / wielded a Firearm
~ 1.7% cannot grasp or handle small objects
~ 3.9% cannot grasp or lift or carry 10 lbs
~ 5.6% have severe enough physical disability that they would be a public danger to handle a firearm
~= 18,156,712 people

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/29/american-gun-ownership-is-now-at-a-30-year-low/
~ 36% of Adults are Gun Owners

~ 89,992,446 Gun Owners ~= 35.9999999% ~= 36%
A Washington Post analysis last year found that the average American gun owner now owns approximately eight firearms

249,979,017 - 5,852,180 - 21,700,000 - 18,156,712 = 204,270,125

89,992,446 / 204,270,125 ~= 44.056% of the US Adult population who qualifies owns a gun

2016 Pew Research Numbers:
http://www.people-press.org/files/2016/08/08-26-16-Gun-policy-release.pdf

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/scientist-responds-to-claim-that-john-lott-is-responsible-for-mass-murder/
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- People failing at the most basic things such as reporting a problematic person
- http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/02/ralph/ralph-the-litany-of-failures-that-led-to-mass-murder-and-you-think-guns-are-the-problem/

- Fake Stat counting
- Rich Leftist's Funders for their Political Ideology:
- Michael Bloomberg
- Warren Buffett
- Pierre Omidyar
- Tom Steyer
- George Soros
- Jonathan Soros (George Soros Son)
- Investigate the Rich people who are funding Political Ideologies along with their propaganda machine
- https://www.mrc.org/special-reports/soros-clones-5-liberal-mega-donors-nearly-dangerous-george-soros
- Everytown for Gun Safety propaganda (Bloomberg funded Leftist Anti-2A Propaganda Machine)
- https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/02/16/parkland-school-shooting-no-there-have-not-been-18-school-shootings-already-year-column/343100002/

- School used to constantly have guns and training in it
https://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/flashback-30-years-guns-schools-nothing-happened/

- Violence Policy Center using FBI data for Justifiable Homicides
- Liberal Source that isn't accurate and is on the low side of estimation
- http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable16.pdf
- http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable15.pdf
- http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable.pdf
- ~200-300 of those Homicides are Justfiable Self Defense

- 538 Gun Deaths Visualized
- https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths/

- About 2/3rds of all deaths are Gun Related Suicides
- 21,058 deaths due to suicide via gun

- The remaining 1/3rd are Gun Deaths
- About 11,726 deaths are homicides
- Only about 546 deaths are due to accidents
- Only about 269 deaths are due to unknown causes

- Within the ~12,000 Homicides per year

~ 1092 were killed by cops
- https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

- About 2,000 homicides are Gang related
- https://www.reference.com/government-politics/many-gang-related-deaths-occur-year-81d438d69ed97cc6

- Fatalities related to Mass Shootings for every year has been < 100 deaths per year
- http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data

- Usually < 100 LEO's are killed by guns each year
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/30/507536360/number-of-police-officers-killed-by-firearms-rose-in-2016-study-finds

~7,900 remaining deaths due to gun violence are attributed to other reasons for dying

- Compare Gun Violence to the grand scheme of Deaths in the US
- http://www.snopes.com/causes-of-death-2016/
- http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Causes_of_Death#sthash.PzztUzDk.dpbs
- http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-leading-causes-of-death-in-the-us/

- Domestic Violence:
- http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/domviofs.htm
- https://www.thetrace.org/2016/08/15-facts-that-show-how-guns-make-domestic-violence-even-deadlier/
- http://www.guns.com/2013/10/12/presence-firearm-escalate-domestic-violence-murder/
- ~1,000 women die via gun homicide due to Domestic Violence
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- Death due to Robbery or Burglary
https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-are-killed-during-home-invasions-every-year
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_10_murder_circumstances_by_relationship_2013.xls
In 2013 there was 12,253 murders, and 780 of those were associated with robbery or burglary (6.4%),
with 94 of those burglaries (0.7%). So, "home invasions" isn't part of the list,
but there's at least 94 murders definitely involving invasion of the home, and potentially some more home invasions in the "robbery" category.
2013 = Robbery: 686 + Burglary: 94 + Larceny-theft: 16 = 796

2/3rds of all Gun Related deaths are Self Inflicted Suicides:
~21,058 deaths annualy

1/3rd of all Gun Related deaths are some form of Homicide:
~ 11,726 deaths which we will round up to 12,000 for simplicity

Within those 12,000 (11,726 rounded up) Gun Related Homicde Deaths
~ 2000 deaths are inflicted by gang related violence
~ 1092 deaths are inflicted by police
~ 1000 deaths are against females due to domestic violence by a partner using a gun
~ 800 deaths are due to some form or Robbery/Burglary/Theft
~ 546 deaths are due to accidents
~ 269 deaths are due to unknown causes
~ 200-300 of those Homicides are Justfiable Self Defense
~ <100 deaths are due to a LEO getting killed via Gun Violence
~ <100 deaths are due to Mass Shootings of some sort
~ 5843 deaths are due to other reasons that I don't have more clear and consistent stats for, but here are samples within 1 year
~ 2889 are due to some form of argument between people
~ 1766 are due to some form of non-specified conflict between people
~ 1188 are due to miscellaneous reasons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
12,000 : 3.690 <- Wikipedia corroborates my numbers for FireArm related Homicides per 100,000
325,170,000 : 100,000

10,000 : 3.075 - Remove living in a Heavily Gang infested Area
325,170,000 : 100,000

8,908 : 2.739 - Remove having bad interactions with Police
325,170,000 : 100,000

7,908 : 2.432 - Remove having Domestic Violence issues with a spouse
325,170,000 : 100,000
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https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2019/aug/07/checking-out-neil-degrasse-tysons-comparison-mass-/

Claim: 500 Americans die from medical errors every 48 hours.

This claim is difficult to verify because death certificates dont leave room for hospitals to admit to medical errors, which could include problems with medical diagnosis, record-keeping, drug administration, surgery or blood transfer.

But Tysons number matches what some studies have said.

A 1999 report from the U.S. Institute of Medicine estimated that, on average, about 98,000 people die each year from medical errors in United States hospitals. Taking that 20-year-old estimate at face value would mean that, on average, about 268 people die from medical errors every day and about 537 people die every 48 hours.

More recent reports have suggested that casualties due to medical error might be even higher.

In a 2016 study, researchers at Johns Hopkins University made estimates based on medical death-rate and hospitalization data from 2000 to 2008 and attributed 250,000 deaths per year to medical errors.

Another 2013 study from the Journal for Patient Safety estimated that more than 400,000 patients per year die in hospitals as a result of "preventable harm."

These findings would put medical error behind just heart disease and cancer as the third-leading cause of death in the United States.

However, some researchers have called into question the findings of the Johns Hopkins study, arguing among other things that its hard to believe such a high proportion of in-hospital deaths are the result of medical errors.
Claim: 300 Americans die from the flu every 48 hours

This claim would be more precise if it said 300 people died from "influenza and pneumonia," rather than simply the flu.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 55,672 Americans died from "influenza and pneumonia" in 2017. Thats about 153 per day and 305 per 48 hours, on average.

The flu is a highly contagious viral infection, and pneumonia is an infection or inflammation of the lungs. The two diseases are different but related, with the flu being a common cause of pneumonia, according to the American Lung Association.

The CDCs numbers for 2017 are the best data available based on information reported on death certificates.

Other estimates the agency has made using mathematical models have suggested that the flu was associated with an even greater number of deaths in more recent time periods.
Claim: 250 Americans die by suicide every 48 hours

This claim is accurate.

According to the CDC, there were 47,173 suicides recorded in the United States in 2017. That means there were about 129 suicides per day, on average, or about 258 per 48 hours.

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Claim: 200 Americans die from car accidents every 48 hours

This claim is in line with the latest available data from the CDC and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

In 2017, there were 37,133 fatalities caused by motor vehicle accidents in the United States, according to the NHTSA. On average, that amounts to about 102 per day, or about 203 every 48 hours.

Meanwhile, the CDC counted 38,659 deaths from motor vehicles in 2017, or about 106 per day and 212 every 48 hours, on average.
Claim: 40 Americans are killed in homicides by handgun every 48 hours

This claim matches up with numbers from the FBI.

Data for murder victims from the FBI indicates that there were 7,032 homicides involving handguns in the United States in 2017, which translates to an average of about 19 deaths per day and 39 per 48 hours. Thats more than the number of homicides by rifles and shotguns.

All together, the FBI recorded 10,982 murders involving some type of firearm in 2017, which lines up to about 30 on average every day and 60 on average every 48 hours.

The CDCs tally for firearm homicides based on whats reported in death certificates is even higher. The agency said there were 14,542 in 2017.

The FBI #'s are basically inline with my yearly estimate of ~ 12,000 +/- 1-3k per year based on statistical fluctuation
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BlingBling22947 posted...

We can't own tanks, but toy don't see people fighting to own tanks.

We can't own rocket launchers.

Don't see how an AR-15 is much different in that it makes is super easy to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time.

Yes, yes you absolutely can 100% legally own a tank and a rocket launcher in the US.

Also dear god how are you this uninformed about guns?
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Banana_Cyanide posted...

BlingBling22947 posted...

We can't own tanks, but toy don't see people fighting to own tanks.

We can't own rocket launchers.

Don't see how an AR-15 is much different in that it makes is super easy to kill a lot of people in a short amount of time.

Yes, yes you absolutely can 100% legally own a tank and a rocket launcher in the US.

Also dear god how are you this uninformed about guns?

Not only that, I was just reminded there's some in the US that have fully functional cannons and even manufacturer their own shells to fire.

Ironically I don't think it's road legal to take them on the street (armored cars are ok), but in europe you can. There's a few vids of them around, and was reminded of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfi2lU3m720" data-time="&start=306

Because when I go grocery shopping I need a 13-14 ton tank with a 75mm 12x shell autoloader.
You never know.

For reference, I know for a fact there's a few shermans and m18 hellcats (one had an accident killing the owner and a customer 2ish years ago due to a misfire), a few T-34-85's, 1 leopard 1, 2 chieftans, 1 152mm howitzer all functional. These are just in the US alone. There's several road going light tanks in the EU.

Was just reminded that Arnold Schwarzenegger owns an M47 patton, so add that to the list.

30-50 feral hogs

*Smug glasses shift*
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But I think they're wicked cool, so here's a number of hypothetical unlikely scenarios I genuinely don't ever think about in order to argue in favour of owning these weapons
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Stop responding to TC. Theyre trolling. They literally started the topic, disappeared, and only post when nobody has responded for a while and their post isnt even a response to anything. Its just more bait.

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Considering this country runs concentration camps, Id say these firearms are necessary so it doesnt happen to the rest of us.

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booboy posted...

Sentiments like the OP being widespread on the anti-gun side are why pro-gun folks won't come to the table.

While Im not in favor of his stance (I want to own whatever firearm I want), hes not saying anything unreasonable or objectionable.

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Solid Sonic posted...

booboy posted...

Sentiments like the OP being widespread on the anti-gun side are why pro-gun folks won't come to the table.

While Im not in favor of his stance (I want to own whatever firearm I want), hes not saying anything unreasonable or objectionable.

But.. he is.

Well...he's being civil about it and trying to express his concern for something he sees as a genuine problem.

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There's a difference between mass shootings and things like cars and cigarettes. Mass shootings have immediate violent intent behind them. It's not an accident like a car wreck or gradually hurting yourself/environment like smoking. I feel that it's ignorant to compare mass shootings to accidental forms of death, and harm that typically only directly hurts the user.
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Kpt_Kapowski posted...

BlingBling22947 posted...

AK-47.

You can hunt with a rifle, you can defend your home with a handgun. You buy those kind of weapons either to kill alot of people in a short amount of time, or for the vanity of saying you own one.

Gun manufacturers sell them to make money, people buy them because they look cool and they can go to the range with their buddies and fire them at targets. That's not a good enough reason to have them, and can never justify the thousands we kill with them each year.

Got a citation for any of that bullshit?

Your ass is not a valid source btw.

booboy posted...

Sentiments like the OP being widespread on the anti-gun side are why pro-gun folks won't come to the table.

Yep

America summed up in one post.
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I love my AK47

Mostly because it isn't practical at all.

Thank god I live in the USA where I can own a not fully automatic AK47 still. I'm sure that's gonna change in my lifetime though :(
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I wish I could buy an AK-12 but apparently no one will export them.

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Funny how often this rhetoric hovers around AR15s and AKs, but never around PDWs. And
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CommonJoe posted...

Funny how often this rhetoric hovers around AR15s and AKs, but never around PDWs. And

I've looked into trying to purchase a P90 or MP5/MP7 specifically to see if it's a loophole for violent nutbars but, as of yet, I've not found one.

I don't know if a semi-auto MP5 can be modded to fire full-auto (or close to it) but that's the only way you're getting your hands on one.

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Good thing America's about freedom and liberties so you don't need a practical reason (and there is, as has been mentioned).
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Solid Sonic posted...

CommonJoe posted...

Funny how often this rhetoric hovers around AR15s and AKs, but never around PDWs. And

I've looked into trying to purchase a P90 or MP5/MP7 specifically to see if it's a loophole for violent nutbars but, as of yet, I've not found one.

I don't know if a semi-auto MP5 can be modded to fire full-auto (or close to it) but that's the only way you're getting your hands on one.

You dont need full auto to kill as many people as you have rounds. And heres a couple of civilian legal SMGs.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/KRISS-USA-VECTOR-GEN-II-CRB-CENTERFIRE-RIFLE/2635697.uts

https://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/firearms/centerfire-rifles/semiautomatic-centerfire-rifles/pc/104792580/c/553829580/sc/105522480/i/105524280/sig-sauer-mpx-carbine-rifle/3273523.uts?slotId=0

Theres also tons of pistol caliber carbines from every other gun shot that wants to make a brand name for themselves.
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Solid Sonic posted...

booboy posted...

Sentiments like the OP being widespread on the anti-gun side are why pro-gun folks won't come to the table.

While Im not in favor of his stance (I want to own whatever firearm I want), hes not saying anything unreasonable or objectionable.

It's civility with an unreasonable stance.

"You don't need this thing, so why do you want it?"

For the same reason I own a vehicle with more than 100 horsepower. Because it's fun to use responsibly (both the car and the AR-15).

And because I'm a citizen in good legal standing, folks like the TC, who are overwhelmingly misinformed about the nature of firearm basic use, firearms crime, and death statistics from firearms, don't get to arbitrarily decide what sits in my room or in my driveway.

Edit to add: You want firearm owners to drop the "not one more inch" stance? Get the folks like the TC to stop sprouting misinformation and policy crafting based upon said misinformation. Simple as that.
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booboy posted...

Sentiments like the OP being widespread on the anti-gun side are why pro-gun folks won't come to the table.

Yea, that's the reason.
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gunplagirl posted...

30-50 feral hogs

*Smug glasses shift*

In what time frame?
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Solid Sonic posted...

I wish I could buy an AK-12 but apparently no one will export them.

If you're in the US, 5.45x39mm ammo is far more expensive to get.

7.62x39mm is far more practical to maintain logistically.
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GregShmedley posted...

It also gets frustrating trying to debate talking points with pro-gun control advocates without dealing with sarcasm or condescending remarks about whatever stance we disagree on.

I do recognize there are pro-gun people who act like children but as someone who makes it a point to have an honest discussion, it gets old being treated like my opinions are invalid.

Funny, those exact remarks can be used for those of us who are on the Pro-Gun side dealing with the Anti-Gun side.
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Isn't AR-15 a civil rifle, with the M16 as its military variant?
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DevsBro posted...

Isn't AR-15 a civil rifle, with the M16 as its military variant?

Yeah.

M16 is the military designation.
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GregShmedley posted...

Let's read that again...>_>

If you don't get my point, I'll make it simple for yeah!

It also gets frustrating trying to debate talking points with Anti-Gun advocates without dealing with sarcasm or condescending remarks about whatever stance we disagree on.

I do recognize there are Anti-Gun people who act like children but as someone who makes it a point to have an honest discussion, it gets old being treated like my opinions are invalid.

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I dont think tank shells even need to be registered if they are solid projectiles with no explosive element. I may be wrong.

Also flamethrowers are legal to own in all states but 1 iirc.

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Haven't read the topic, but I'm going to assume TC thinks an AR-15 is an automatic weapon

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AssultTank posted...

But everyone says it is fully semiautomatic! That means it shoots too fast for people to own. But the Ruger Mini 14 is fine. It is a hunting rifle after all.

Sarcasm in case you didn't pick up on that...

Hell, those WWII Colt 45s (1911A1) are basically hand bazookas compared to the AR-15.

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GregShmedley posted...

KamenRiderBlade posted...

If you don't get my point, I'll make it simple for yeah!

.......want to try again?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Fair enough, didn't read the 3rd word in your bolded part.
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DarkRoast posted...

Hell, those WWII Colt 45s are basically hand bazookas compared to the AR-15.

<sarcasm>Then those 12.ga Shotgun Shells must be Hand Held Artillery at that point.</sarcasm>
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Seriously though can you even survive being shot by a 1911 A1?


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And while we're at it, there's always those battleship cannons.
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I was scrolling through this topic and saw some dude post 5 times in a row and mention george soros

fucking lol.
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Sorry TC, but rights are not defined solely by needs. If some people prefer to own an AR-15 instead of a Mini-14 (legally of course), then that should be their undeniable prerogative. If you want to control what people can or cannot do with their property, join a HOA.
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Its easy to spot when someone is just riding the emotional outrage when they specifically target the AR15 or AK47...as if thousands of SMG and Carbine variants arent just as "dangerous" or "scary".

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