Current Events > Kingdom Hearts games should be about a boy with a sword and light vs dark

(+) Yeah! (+)

What the fuck happened after the first game?

You were just a boy who played with toy swords and wanted to explore the world with your friends. And it was a basic, enjoyable story about light vs dark.

Wtf happened between that and the second game where they have god abilities(twirling dual swords around you with your mind), and souls and copies of people and all that other bullshit
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Its still about light vs dark. Nothings changed. All whats dropped is the quality of the story, which has gone from average (for its time. Its shit today) to beyond shit
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Rika_Furude posted...

Its still about light vs dark. Nothings changed. All whats dropped is the quality of the story, which has gone from average (for its time. Its shit today) to beyond shit

That's what I mean though. What drove them to go from simple and decent to one of the most convoluted stories in media?
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KH1 works as a solo game, but with each subsequent game adding more characters, more bloat, more retcons and twists and corny moments for the sake of corny moments, the series takes a bit of a nosedive.

KH2 has better gameplay imo, beyond a doubt. But KH1 is the better game, and the ongoing series is a bit of a travesty. Especially since they left the door open for more KH titles down the line after the super rushed crowd-pleaser endings for all the different player groups in KH3.
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The KH series isn't nearly as convoluted as people try to claim it is. A little messy, sure, but it's not hard to understand or follow at all.
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But then we never would have gotten Aqua.
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I like Kingdom Hearts. The characters are cool and the story isnt all that hard to understand.
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Bleach and other shlock shonen garbage happened and thats why Nomura cant get over the whole stupid pointless villain group deal
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omega cookie posted...

The KH series isn't nearly as convoluted as people try to claim it is. A little messy, sure, but it's not hard to understand or follow at all.

Can you think of a more convoluted plot? The Xemnas/Ansem/Xenahort stuff alone should qualify it for a world's worst writing trophy. I can't believe that anyone would write something that convoluted on accident, they have to be trying.
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no matter the fanboys say, i will always think that removing FF characters in KH3 is a dumb decision.
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Nomura is a hack.
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Ricemills posted...

no matter the fanboys say, i will always think that removing FF characters in KH3 is a dumb decision.

There were moogles im pretty sure.
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ChocoboMog123 posted...

omega cookie posted...

The KH series isn't nearly as convoluted as people try to claim it is. A little messy, sure, but it's not hard to understand or follow at all.

Can you think of a more convoluted plot? The Xemnas/Ansem/Xenahort stuff alone should qualify it for a world's worst writing trophy. I can't believe that anyone would write something that convoluted on accident, they have to be trying.

Defending KHs plot is a meme at this point.
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The KH plot is bad. Offensively bad. But omega is right about it not being convoluted. Its so bad that some things dont come across clearly however
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Ricemills posted...

no matter the fanboys say, i will always think that removing FF characters in KH3 is a dumb decision.

I feel like most of the fans have been mad about the removal. All the ones I know at least and Im a huge fan of the series.

Honestly the few people who Ive come across who say they liked it I just wrote off as trolls.
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From Sora's perspective, the plot has stayed exactly the same. The only difference is the beings he slaughters without question start to look more and more human.
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Kingdom Hearts is just a fan fiction that's canon
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Having only played the first two (well, three if you count CoM) games and only taking those into account, I'm baffled that people are trying to argue that it's not convoluted. As mentioned above, the Ansem/Xehanort thing alone earns it that title. I mean, even before the stuff I sort of know about from later titles you have:
You have Ansem and Xemnas, the Heartless and Nobody of Ansem, except that their origin is actually a dude named Xehanort. A blonde dude with a beard is the real Ansem except now he goes by DiZ. They're from Hollow Bastion except that place is actually Radiant Garden. And then the cherry on top is that Riku looks like Ans-I mean, Xehanort.

You can't tell me that isn't convoluted as hell.
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Some of them unquestionably have human emotions, and Xemnas was just stringing them along, but it doesn't matter because they are all grinded meat before Sora.
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The answer to all TC's questions is

"Nomura had a success so Square allowed him to go nuts. And he absolutely did"

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pegusus123456 posted...

Having only played the first two (well, three if you count CoM) games and only taking those into account, I'm baffled that people are trying to argue that it's not convoluted. As mentioned above, the Ansem/Xehanort thing alone earns it that title. I mean, even before the stuff I sort of know about from later titles you have:
You have Ansem and Xemnas, the Heartless and Nobody of Ansem, except that their origin is actually a dude named Xehanort. A blonde dude with a beard is the real Ansem except now he goes by DiZ. They're from Hollow Bastion except that place is actually Radiant Garden. And then the cherry on top is that Riku looks like Ans-I mean, Xehanort.

You can't tell me that isn't convoluted as hell.

SmidgeIsntBack posted...

From Sora's perspective, the plot has stayed exactly the same. The only difference is the beings he slaughters without question start to look more and more human.

This is hilarious to me though. Like the some of the Organization members are fairly sympathetic in some cutscenes and Sora's crew just goes, "Pffft, fuck you, you don't have feelings, get shit on."

Thats the saddest part to me. I liked KH 1, played CoM and enjoyed it, loved 2 mainly because of all the boards before release speculating on Roxas (or BHK I should say... god I miss those days). The game itself was pretty good for what it was too.

But then came Days... now I know Im in the minority but I loved days. Hands down one of my favorite storys period (even with its flaws). That game really drew me into the series again and made me go through the series again just to play it once more to connect it all.

BBS was next and while I beat it fully it wasnt my favorite. The story was solid but I hated going through the worlds three times. DDD was where it kinda dropped for me though. The story was a mess and just all around weird with the dreaming aspect that was the major jump the shark moment for me. The story had its moments though and still had a decently darkish tone which was cool and gave me a ton of hope.

KH3 dropped the ball though. I mean really they dropped the ball by doing BBS and following it up with a shitty game like DDD to connect it all together.

Personally, I wish they said fuck BBS and DDD and that route and just focused on what they had with the org, Roxas, hallow bastion/radiant garden.

Like, focus and flesh all that out. People loved those aspects and theres no reason not to have just made a story centered around heartless and nobodies and stuff like that.

Idk, just sucks to see so much wasted potential.
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After having watched the 358/2 Days movie on the collection, I'm now even more baffled that people are saying it's not convoluted. The entire character of Xion would be edited out of any other franchise for being too convoluted. She is fanfiction.
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All I know is kingdom hearts 2 has the best combat in a JRPG

pegusus123456 posted...

After having watched the 358/2 Days movie on the collection, I'm now even more baffled that people are saying it's not convoluted. The entire character of Xion would be edited out of any other franchise for being too convoluted. She is fanfiction.

Oh dont get me wrong that whole situation is what Id consider a flaw. Id rather they have had made her a different characters nobody who they could have brought in or something but ya, series was wild. Its clear they wanted an alternate Riku, Sora, and Kairi arc but man I wish they brought her in some other way.
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Xion should be deleted from the franchise and be replaced by an entirely different character named something crazy like say... Namine.

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Xion can be removed from the franchise and nothing changes but that doesnt make it convoluted. Nothing is convoluted in KH. Bad? Yes. Offensively bad? Hell yes. But convoluted? No.
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CasualGuy posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

Its still about light vs dark. Nothings changed. All whats dropped is the quality of the story, which has gone from average (for its time. Its shit today) to beyond shit

That's what I mean though. What drove them to go from simple and decent to one of the most convoluted stories in media?

It's actually not that convoluted

Everybody is Xenahort

Yeah it was dumb to make Everyone a keyblade weilder

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I totally agree. Though, honestly, I never even liked KH2. Couldn't finish it. That was more due to the quick time events than the story going off the rails, but I had already tried Chain of Memories by that point so I just thought it wasn't worth it any more
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pegusus123456 posted...

After having watched the 358/2 Days movie on the collection, I'm now even more baffled that people are saying it's not convoluted. The entire character of Xion would be edited out of any other franchise for being too convoluted. She is fanfiction.

Roxas throwing one of his keyblades at Riku is the perfect example of KH writing post 2.

What used to be a moment that is simply a cool and established move in gameplay actually has like 10 hours of backstory behind it to explain how Roxas is actually being possessed by the ghost of someone who is himself.

And be grateful the collection just has the cutscenes because the actual gameplay was a giant chore and I can't even imagine how badly they would have fucked up a redo given how Re: Chain of Memories worked out.
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Yup, I agree. Kingdom Hearts was at its best when it was about a little boy trying to save his friends from the darkness, and nothing else. It was a basic story, but a really strong story.

And then Square got dumb.
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