Current Events > Years later and I still don't understand why in FFX they fought (Spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yunalesca.

She's like

"Here let me kill one of ya and give ya a final aeon"

And they're like "no thx lol"

And so she's like "Well then I'mma gonna kill you for some reason."

And they're like "I dun wanna fight you but I'd feel bad if I ran away so let's fight."

I don't get it. Why does Yunalesca want to kill you? She says something about not wanting you to live in pain/misery and so killing you is a mercy. But you'd think by the time you got 3 guys triple teaming her she'd re-evaluate caring about that.

Yes if a horse breaks its legs it's a mercy to put it down but I think you would give up if you tied to do that and 7 horses started kicking the crap out of you.

I don't get why she cares.

And why don't Yuna and co run away. Except Kimarhi they're not violent and Lulu flat out tells Wakka that he can and Wakka is like "Nah I couldn't live with myself unless I killed this old lady."

Even Seymour (The Main Villain) is like "Man thanks for killing Yunalesca for me. That really helps my evil plan immensely."

And putting it another way, what happens now if Yuna fails? BFA kicks their ass or the airship crashed into the Moonflow by mistake when heading to sin.

Now no one gets a Final Aeon.

Dona completed her pilgrammage (potentially) If you failed she would be like the second line of defense for Spira.

Sure the cycle is bad but the cycle is literally better than extiniction.

And it can't be because Yunalesca is scared you'd rat out the truth. She wasn't scared that Auron or any other survivor guardian would do that. She wasn't scared that Yevon knew the truth.

It just felt contrived as hell.
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It was all a dream
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solosnake posted...

It was all a dream

I used to read Word Up magazine
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ffx is a bad story, tbh

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Yunalesca is too arrogant to believe she can be defeated by anyone. She also trusts the guardians wouldn't reveal the truth, as she thinks they understand how "necessary" the Final Summon is.

ultimate reaver posted...

ffx is a bad story, tbh

I don't agree at all

The imagination on display is incredible.

JE19426 posted...

Yunalesca is too arrogant to believe she can be defeated by anyone. She also trusts the guardians wouldn't reveal the truth, as she thinks they understand how "necessary" the Final Summon is.

That still doesn't explain why you fight each other.
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Maze_ posted...

That still doesn't explain why you fight each other.

What do you mean? Yunalesca fights them as she thinks they are better dead than alive, and the group fight her because they think it's better than running.

JE19426 posted...

Maze_ posted...

That still doesn't explain why you fight each other.

What do you mean? Yunalesca fights them as she thinks they are better dead than alive, and the group fight her because they think it's better than running.

Yes but why?
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Maze_ posted...

Yes but why?

Why what?

One of the central themes of X was existentialism, or the idea of overcoming nihilism and a meaningless cycle to find meaning that mattered to you.

That's why Auron refuses to back down, and states something along the lines of "This is it! Die, and be happy or live, and find your own meaning!"

I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it. Yunalesca represents a rotten cycle that emphasizes apathy through death.
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JE19426 posted...

Maze_ posted...

Yes but why?

Why what?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xfvFbjA908" data-time="
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Maze_ posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xfvFbjA908" data-time="

I'm not going to watch any youtube videos right now.

Yunalesca took Yuna and the gangs refusal to obtain the Final Aeon as a death wish more or less, because like so many others she believed the Final Aeon was the only way. She figures "Hey, y'all gonna die anyway. Fuck it, imma kill ya!"
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I played that game back in middle school and I honestly still don't understand any of the shit in there >_>
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Also why are you painting Kimarhi as a monster? Of all the characters you can misunderstand....
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Maybe I forgot but I thought it was at the moment the party decided to go against the cycle and tear it down. Yunalesca obviously wants to protect that cycle. Simple clash of ideals.
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Hexenherz posted...

I played that game back in middle school and I honestly still don't understand any of the shit in there >_>

I understood the plot, just not the motivations for a few bits. Some chunks of FFX are contrived. Like this and Bevelle

twitterfriends posted...

Also why are you painting Kimarhi as a monster? Of all the characters you can misunderstand....

Kimarhi is the only one of the 7 who strikes first.

He does it numerous times throughout the game.

I called him violent, not a monster.

Kimarhi is the only one out of the 7 who you could argue might prefer a fight to not fighting and even then he wouldn't the moment Yuna chose not to.
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Forced reason for a fight.
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Break the cycle
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CapnMuffin posted...

Maybe I forgot but I thought it was at the moment the party decided to go against the cycle and tear it down. Yunalesca obviously wants to protect that cycle. Simple clash of ideals.

This pretty much
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Evening_Dragon posted...

Forced reason for a fight.

Yes

kewldude475 posted...

They didn't run away because if they did she would catch up. Not everyone is super athletic like Tidus and can run really fast.

One blink and you miss it touch I really like was when they slide down the wires to Bevelle, Kimarhi is holding Lulu.

Touch posted...

CapnMuffin posted...

Maybe I forgot but I thought it was at the moment the party decided to go against the cycle and tear it down. Yunalesca obviously wants to protect that cycle. Simple clash of ideals.

This pretty much

But killing Yunalesca does not help to stop the cycle.

And Yunalesca putting herself in danger needlessly against 7 powerful warriors (one of whom is a summoner) does nothing but massively endanger the cycle. Has nothing to do with protection.

Again Seymour, the main villain who wants to kill everyone is thrilled that you did it.

It seems irrational for Yunalesca to want to fight them and it seems irrational for Yuna and co to kill her (and send her) instead of just walking off.

Do they even realize that the only reason they can kill Yu Yevon is because of Yunalesca turning Jecht into Sin? That's not lost on them right?

If they fuck up Yunalesca is still helpful.

Say Sin bitchslaps the Airship into Luca. Everyone dies.

Then maybe Dona's Final Aeon defeats Sin.

Then maybe Pacce breaks the cycle 10 years from now by offering Sin some steroids or something to humanize him and then kills Yu Yevon.

IT's contrived and poorly thought out is my point. I don't get the motivations for all 8 characters involved (Except mayyyybe Auron) and the fact you're greatly helping the main villain while risking the entire planet for no benefit says it all frankly.
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Mr Hangman posted...

Not sure what you're talking about here. Yunalesca started the cycle of Sin being killed and reborn and guides others to doing so, of course sending her is part of stopping that.

Not really. That doesn't make any sense.

1. Being responsible for creating something doesn't mean you have to be dead in order for it to stop. by your logic a daughter can't die until her mother does.

2. Yunalesca is literally required to defeat Sin even without the cycle. You only defeat Yu Yevon because Sin is weakened and Sin is only weakened because Sin is Jecht thanks to Yunalesca.

They inadvertantly address this very point in FFX-2 with Vegnagun. It can never be used against Sin because it's so powerful it will destroy the world. You cannot kill Sin at full strength, the power required would be Worldending. You have to weaken Sin and kill Yu Yevon. You need Yunalesca in that chain in order to create the scenario were Sin can be weakened.

Name one single reason why Yuna's plan would have failed if Yunalesca was still alive and they just left her in Zanarkand?

The fact Yunalesca doesn't think the cycle can be broken is irrelevant. It's uncharacisteric of Yunalesca to risk everything (and lose) for no gain.

And it's uncharacistically arrogant of Yuna to assume she's the only one who deserves the right to stop the cycle and therefore for no gain it's all or nothing on them. Yunalesca has to die.

It's contrived

That doesn't help Seymour in any way, he wanted to be the final aeon, how does he expect to do that now without Yunalesca's assistance?

[The party runs along the misty path until the party happens upon Seymour.]

Tidus: "Don't you ever give up?"

Seymour: "Sin has chosen me. I am part of Sin. I am one with Sin, forever. Immortal!"

Tidus: "Sin just absorbed you."

Seymour: "I will learn to control it, from within. I have all the time in the world. Since you were gracious enough to dispose of Yunalesca...the only means of destroying Sin is forever gone. Now nothing can stop us!"
Credit to @Shotgunnova 's game script.

Seymour is delighted that you took out Yunalesca for him.

You pretty much ensured that there is no way to stop him once he becomes Sin
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Hexenherz posted...

I played that game back in middle school and I honestly still don't understand any of the shit in there >_>

yeah I played it when it came out and I had no idea what was going on at the end cause I took a couple long breaks lmao
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Maze_ posted...

Seymour is delighted that you took out Yunalesca for him.

Seymour's goal is to literally kill everyone because life is just suffering. To him, the defeat of Yunalesca means he can just sit back and let Sin destroy the world since he (and Yunalesca) believe there is no possible way to defeat Sin without the Final Aeon.

So it makes sense that he's delighted you did it but it doesn't actually help Seymour.

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Mr Hangman posted...

Because Yunalesca would have killed them because she didn't want Yuna's plan to succeed.

Several things.

1. That's not an answer to my question.

2. It's not that Yunalesca wants them to fail. It's that she doesn't think they can succeed

Yunalesca: "Hope is...comforting. It allows us to accept fate, however tragic it might be."

Tidus: "No!"

[Just then, the specter of Auron from ten years prior appears, squaring off against Yunalesca, saying:]

Auron: "No! Where is the sense in all this? Braska believed in Yevon's teachings and died for them! Jecht believed in Braska and gave his life for him!"

Yunalesca: "They chose to die...because they had hope."

Yunalesca: "Yevon's teachings and the Final Summoning give the people of Spira hope. Without hope, they would drown in their sorrow. Now, choose. Who will be your fayth? Who will be the one to renew Spira's hope?"

Yuna: "No one. I would have gladly died. I live for the people of Spira, and would have gladly died for them. But no more! The Final Summoning...is a false tradition that should be thrown away."

Yunalesca: "No. It's our only hope. Your father sacrificed himself to give that hope to the people. So they would forget sorrow."

Yuna: "Wrong. My father... My father wanted...to make Spira's sorrow go away. Not just cover it up with lies!"

Yunalesca: "Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try."

Yuna: "My father... I loved him. So I... I will live with my sorrow, I will live my own life! I will defeat sorrow, in his place. I will stand my ground and be strong. I don't know when it will be but someday, I will conquer it. And I will do it without...false hope."

Yunalesca: "Poor creature. You would throw away hope. Well... I will free you before you can drown in your sorrow. It is better for you to die in hope than to live in despair. Let me be your liberator."

*after you defeat her before sending her*

Yunalesca: "If I die, so does the Final Aeon. And with it, Spira's only hope."

Yunalesca never states or implies that she wants Yuna to fail. Just that she thinks Yuna's plan is delusional. She considers killing Yuna to be a mercy and when defeated half begs them to not send her as thus remove the Final Aeon to end the cycle.

It doesn't make sense why Yunalesca is literally risking the world as a "Mercy Killing"

And it doesn't sense that Yuna is literally risking the world because she's too arrogant to accept that she might fail.

Both are out of character. In character would be for both parties to walk away and think each other as stubborn fools.

Seymour's a meglomaniac. No reason to think he can succeed in doing that.

I don't agree with that. It destroys the entie tension and plot if you go "The villain is actually wrong and can't really win"

That's abysmally awful storytelling. The implication is clear that if you die, Seymour will end all life on Spira.

The other thing he says in that same line is obviously wrong after all, since they succeed in destroying Sin.

False.... Well sorta.

They never "destroyed Sin"

They weakened Sin and destroyed Yu Yevon (Which then ends Sin)

If Seymour became Sin. Nothing could stop him. The Hymm of the Fayth woudn't do shit. Even if you found a way to bring out Seymour's humanity when he was sin, he wouldn't care or try to hold Sin Back.

You only made it to Yu Yevon because Sin is Jecht, thanks to Yunalesca.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Seymour's goal is to literally kill everyone because life is just suffering. To him, the defeat of Yunalesca means he can just sit back and let Sin destroy the world since he (and Yunalesca) believe there is no possible way to defeat Sin without the Final Aeon.

Not according to him.

He's still claiming he will control Sin

Seymour: "Sin has chosen me. I am part of Sin. I am one with Sin, forever. Immortal!"

Seymour: "I will learn to control it, from within. I have all the time in the world. Since you were gracious enough to dispose of Yunalesca...the only means of destroying Sin is forever gone. Now nothing can stop us!"

Not that he'll rattle around doing nothing
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ultimate reaver posted...

ffx is bad

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Maze_ posted...

Not according to him.

He's still claiming he will control Sin

Seymour: "Sin has chosen me. I am part of Sin. I am one with Sin, forever. Immortal!"

Seymour: "I will learn to control it, from within. I have all the time in the world. Since you were gracious enough to dispose of Yunalesca...the only means of destroying Sin is forever gone. Now nothing can stop us!"

Not that he'll rattle around doing nothing

He not doing literally nothing but he clearly says right there that he "has all the time in the world" indicating absolute confidence that Tidus and Yuna cannot defeat Sin. He would spend most of his time doing nothing dormant inside of Sin until he could depose Yu Yevon and take his place, accelerating the destruction of spira.

The point is once Yunalesca was destroyed he saw the death of everyone at the hands of Sin to be an inevitability.

There's three different points of view here.

Yunalesca thinks the true problem is so bad you're better off kicking it down the road a few years because it is known that you can kick it forever and thus never have to deal with it.

Seymour thinks the true problem isn't really a problem and should be embraced.

Yuna & co think the true problem can actually be solved permanently.

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They needed a boss fight
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Strider102 posted...

Yunalesca took Yuna and the gangs refusal to obtain the Final Aeon as a death wish more or less, because like so many others she believed the Final Aeon was the only way. She figures "Hey, y'all gonna die anyway. Fuck it, imma kill ya!"

This. It's really not that complicated. She has a similar outlook to Seymour regarding pain and suffering, in that you only escape them when you die. To her, refusing to summon the Final Aeon (what she believes to be the only way of defeating Sin) is wishing for death. You could also argue she sees it as a disservice to Yevon and Spira, and attacks them for not giving up their lives to protect everyone else's.

As for why the party fights her, it's simply because she came at them first. Would you rather they not defend themselves against the powerful spirit looking to end their lives? Running away doesn't always work.

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Maze_ posted...

I don't agree with that. It destroys the entie tension and plot if you go "The villain is actually wrong and can't really win"

That's abysmally awful storytelling. The implication is clear that if you die, Seymour will end all life on Spira.

No it doesn't at all. If Seymour kills you Sin is still going to go around killing tons of people.

They fought because after hearing the reality of the position they were put in with the cycle over and over, they know if Yunalesca is not defeated then other summoners WILL continue the cycle were they to fail.

This basically ensured that moving forward, the only way to beat Sin is to literally destroy it.
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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

This basically ensured that moving forward, the only way to beat Sin is to literally destroy it.

The point TC is making is that that's one hell of a gamble.
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JE19426 posted...

Maze_ posted...

I don't agree with that. It destroys the entie tension and plot if you go "The villain is actually wrong and can't really win"

That's abysmally awful storytelling. The implication is clear that if you die, Seymour will end all life on Spira.

No it doesn't at all. If Seymour kills you Sin is still going to go around killing tons of people.

Yes but Sin is mindless. So people live forever

Seymour Sin will SEEK OUT everyone and wipe them out

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

They fought because after hearing the reality of the position they were put in with the cycle over and over, they know if Yunalesca is not defeated then other summoners WILL continue the cycle were they to fail.

So?

This basically ensured that moving forward, the only way to beat Sin is to literally destroy it.

I don't believe that because Yunalesca attacked them.

It's also out of character. It's contrived as hell that Yuna would be arrogant enough to not only make that decision but literally murder in order to do so.


Yuna: "My father... I loved him. So I... I will live with my sorrow, I will live my own life! I will defeat sorrow, in his place. I will stand my ground and be strong. I don't know when it will be but someday, I will conquer it. And I will do it without...false hope."


Doesn't gel with "Motherfucker I'm gona kill u cuz i'm the greatest son of abitch who ever lived lul"
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I could be wrong, but doesnt Yunalesca state they cannot just leave? Like she vaguely threatens them that they either get the final aeon or their "journey is over"?
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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

I could be wrong, but doesnt Yunalesca state they cannot just leave? Like she vaguely threatens them that they either get the final aeon or their "journey is over"?

She says that it's impossible to defeat Sin without it (She's actually right) and that they are delusional and cannot win.

Then she attacks them in her mind out of mercy.

Lulu tells Wakka that he could run away and Wakka says he wouldn't be able to live with himself. Which begs the question why don't they all run away.

Then after beating Yunalesca they send her for no reason.

Basically everyone acts out of character, makes weird decisions and assists the main villain just to give us a boss fight
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Well, a huge issue with the game is the fact that people who are unsent are like... basically heathens.

I realize that a lot of the members of the church are unsent, but that doesn't negate the fact that this is a world where you are not supposed to be unsent.

Same thing with Auron. Why send him? Yes he said he should be sent, but that is more about how their natural order of the world works.
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They fought her because they thought the final aeon is BS and that there has to be a better solution
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Your question has been answered several times over.
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Maze_ posted...

She says that it's impossible to defeat Sin without it (She's actually right)

If she was the game would've ended right there.
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Rika_Furude posted...

They fought her because they thought the final aeon is BS and that there has to be a better solution

That's a non sequitur

"I killed him officer because I think Diesel cars are more fuel efficent than gasoline."

Well you can go off and think that without killing the guy

Tidus didn't kill Bickson when they disagreed on who was going to win at Blitzball
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dave_is_slick posted...

Your question has been answered several times over.

Yeah but the answers suck

Also I didn't ask a question.

dave_is_slick posted...

Maze_ posted...

She says that it's impossible to defeat Sin without it (She's actually right)

If she was the game would've ended right there.

You do realize BFA is a Final Aeon right?

You do realize that's Jecht right?

You do realize Yunalesca made Jecht into BFA right?

You do realize Jecht is what weakened Sin which allowed you to reach Yu Yevon Right?

So you do realize no Final Aeon means you never would have reached Yu Yevon Right?

So no Yunalesca and no Final Aeon means Sin never would have been defeated.

Yunalesca is only wrong because she didn't realize how much Jecht's humanity could cripple Sin, making it possible to end the cycles

And at the time, Yuna and Co did not realize this either.
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Maze_ posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

They fought her because they thought the final aeon is BS and that there has to be a better solution

That's a non sequitur

"I killed him officer because I think Diesel cars are more fuel efficent than gasoline."

Well you can go off and think that without killing the guy

Tidus didn't kill Bickson when they disagreed on who was going to win at Blitzball

In this case they couldnt because the next summoner to come along would have taken the final aeon
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Maze_ posted...

You do realize Jecht is what weakened Sin which allowed you to reach Yu Yevon Right?

You're right up until here.

Sin was destroyed by Braska's Final Aeon. The calm represents a time after which Sin is destroyed but the Final Aeon has not yet been fully corrupted by Yu Yevon.

Sin _is_ Jecht by the time you start the game.

Maze_ posted...

Yunalesca is only wrong because

Yunalesca is also just regular wrong. Vegnagun could have done it as well leaving Yu Yevon a hollowed out roach without a final aeon to possess.

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