Current Events > Ominous warning from UN: World's oceans in peril

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s0nicfan 09/25/19 10:53:23 AM #52:	hockeybub89 posted... s0nicfan posted... hockeybub89 posted... I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that experts that talk about climate science include Asia when they consider "the world". Nobody is saying they're not including Asia. You keep bringing this up like it's a point, but it's nonsense. We're discussing to what extent a United States domestic agenda can effectively curb enough of the World's pollution to reverse the trend, or whether International efforts are required to force other countries to comply so that we can hit the amount of reduction necessary to save ourselves. Who is saying there doesn't need to be international efforts though? Presumably all the people responding to the fact that China is the biggest polluter of them all with some form of "but china!" But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're completely in agreement with me with what I've been saying and I was reading into your post incorrectly. If that's the case, could you explain why exactly you need to keep saying that climate scientists are including Asia when they talk about "the world"? And what relevance that has to this topic? --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:927921211] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that experts that talk about climate science include Asia when they consider "the world".</quote> Nobody is saying they're not including Asia. You keep bringing this up like it's a point, but it's nonsense. We're discussing to what extent a United States domestic agenda can effectively curb enough of the World's pollution to reverse the trend, or whether International efforts are required to force other countries to comply so that we can hit the amount of reduction necessary to save ourselves.</quote> Who is saying there doesn't need to be international efforts though?</quote> Presumably all the people responding to the fact that China is the biggest polluter of them all with some form of "but china!" But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're completely in agreement with me with what I've been saying and I was reading into your post incorrectly. If that's the case, could you explain why exactly you need to keep saying that climate scientists are including Asia when they talk about "the world"? And what relevance that has to this topic?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 09/25/19 10:55:12 AM #53:	scar the 1 posted... s0nicfan posted... treewojima posted... The problem is it's usually not done to point out China as an egregious offender, but rather to distract from problems we have here in the US. Similar to how someone will inevitably bring up livestock methane emissions when there's talk of stricter environmental regulations on industry. The question then is the same as to why individual responsibility is irrelevant when looking at pollution at the corporate and National level. If the US were to completely eliminate its emissions over the next , completely ignoring the fact that it would probably decimate our economy, is that even enough to stop or reverse the trend? Or is curbing China directly a necessary step to hit that magic number that moves climate-change backwards. If the US were to completely eliminate its emissions, they would have very strong credibility in trade negotiations when they demand the people they trade with do the same thing. Furthermore they would have sustainable solutions to export, further strengthening them in negotiations. They would be able to put immensely more pressure on China and India than they are now. And if the timelines being declared are true, we'll be well past the point of no return by the time we have credibility, let alone by the time we could negotiate with other countries to change their own habits. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:927921305] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>scar the 1 posted...</cite> <quote>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>treewojima posted...</cite> <quote>The problem is it's usually not done to point out China as an egregious offender, but rather to distract from problems we have here in the US. Similar to how someone will inevitably bring up livestock methane emissions when there's talk of stricter environmental regulations on industry.</quote> The question then is the same as to why individual responsibility is irrelevant when looking at pollution at the corporate and National level. If the US were to completely eliminate its emissions over the next , completely ignoring the fact that it would probably decimate our economy, is that even enough to stop or reverse the trend? Or is curbing China directly a necessary step to hit that magic number that moves climate-change backwards.</quote> If the US were to completely eliminate its emissions, they would have very strong credibility in trade negotiations when they demand the people they trade with do the same thing. Furthermore they would have sustainable solutions to export, further strengthening them in negotiations. They would be able to put immensely more pressure on China and India than they are now.</quote> And if the timelines being declared are true, we'll be well past the point of no return by the time we have credibility, let alone by the time we could negotiate with other countries to change their own habits.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scar the 1 09/25/19 10:59:56 AM #54:	s0nicfan posted... And if the timelines being declared are true, we'll be well past the point of no return by the time we have credibility, let alone by the time we could negotiate with other countries to change their own habits. I mean now you're just pointing out that your own example was hyperbolic, obviously IRL you would put pressure sooner than after you completely cut all your emissions. However putting such pressure has very little weight when you don't live up to it yourself, that's the point that you're conveniently ignoring by tunneling on the technicalities of a hyperbole. --- Stop being so aggressively argumentative for no reason. - UnfairRepresent <cite>scar the 1 posted [p:927921491] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>And if the timelines being declared are true, we'll be well past the point of no return by the time we have credibility, let alone by the time we could negotiate with other countries to change their own habits.</quote> I mean now you're just pointing out that your own example was hyperbolic, obviously IRL you would put pressure sooner than after you completely cut all your emissions. However putting such pressure has very little weight when you don't live up to it yourself, that's the point that you're conveniently ignoring by tunneling on the technicalities of a hyperbole.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FrozenXylophone 09/25/19 11:02:32 AM #55:	YoshitoKikuchi posted... Doing little or nothing will result in catastrophic impacts. We need to quit our jobs and stop buying products. Idk if I can do it. Catastrophic! :( https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/78038601 <cite>FrozenXylophone posted [p:927921599] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>YoshitoKikuchi posted...</cite> <quote>Doing little or nothing will result in catastrophic impacts.</quote> We need to quit our jobs and stop buying products. Idk if I can do it. Catastrophic! :( https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/78038601</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 09/25/19 11:05:32 AM #56:	s0nicfan posted... hockeybub89 posted... s0nicfan posted... hockeybub89 posted... I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that experts that talk about climate science include Asia when they consider "the world". Nobody is saying they're not including Asia. You keep bringing this up like it's a point, but it's nonsense. We're discussing to what extent a United States domestic agenda can effectively curb enough of the World's pollution to reverse the trend, or whether International efforts are required to force other countries to comply so that we can hit the amount of reduction necessary to save ourselves. Who is saying there doesn't need to be international efforts though? Presumably all the people responding to the fact that China is the biggest polluter of them all with some form of "but china!" But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're completely in agreement with me with what I've been saying and I was reading into your post incorrectly. If that's the case, could you explain why exactly you need to keep saying that climate scientists are including Asia when they talk about "the world"? And what relevance that has to this topic? People keep saying "This is worthless without China and India!" Ok? No one is arguing different, so no reason people need to go "Why are we demanding change in America?" --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:927921721] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that experts that talk about climate science include Asia when they consider "the world".</quote> Nobody is saying they're not including Asia. You keep bringing this up like it's a point, but it's nonsense. We're discussing to what extent a United States domestic agenda can effectively curb enough of the World's pollution to reverse the trend, or whether International efforts are required to force other countries to comply so that we can hit the amount of reduction necessary to save ourselves.</quote> Who is saying there doesn't need to be international efforts though?</quote> Presumably all the people responding to the fact that China is the biggest polluter of them all with some form of "but china!" But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're completely in agreement with me with what I've been saying and I was reading into your post incorrectly. If that's the case, could you explain why exactly you need to keep saying that climate scientists are including Asia when they talk about "the world"? And what relevance that has to this topic?</quote> People keep saying "This is worthless without China and India!" Ok? No one is arguing different, so no reason people need to go "Why are we demanding change in America?"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FrozenXylophone 09/25/19 11:07:14 AM #57:	solosnake posted... I really dont think we can overcome it. We are too stuck on capitalism and electronics. I think you are right. Here I am sitting in the nice air conditioned building. The powerplant powering it is pumping away that carbon. Could I give it up? Idk <cite>FrozenXylophone posted [p:927921773] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>solosnake posted...</cite> <quote>I really dont think we can overcome it. We are too stuck on capitalism and electronics.</quote> I think you are right. Here I am sitting in the nice air conditioned building. The powerplant powering it is pumping away that carbon. Could I give it up? Idk</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
s0nicfan 09/25/19 11:07:20 AM #58:	scar the 1 posted... s0nicfan posted... And if the timelines being declared are true, we'll be well past the point of no return by the time we have credibility, let alone by the time we could negotiate with other countries to change their own habits. I mean now you're just pointing out that your own example was hyperbolic, obviously IRL you would put pressure sooner than after you completely cut all your emissions. However putting such pressure has very little weight when you don't live up to it yourself, that's the point that you're conveniently ignoring by tunneling on the technicalities of a hyperbole. I don't believe that China's willingness to cut into their own bottom line would be impacted in any way by how much we've curtailed our own emissions. That sort of angle might work in negotiations with the EU, but it fundamentally misses how China operates. --- "History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz <cite>s0nicfan posted [p:927921779] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>scar the 1 posted...</cite> <quote>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>And if the timelines being declared are true, we'll be well past the point of no return by the time we have credibility, let alone by the time we could negotiate with other countries to change their own habits.</quote> I mean now you're just pointing out that your own example was hyperbolic, obviously IRL you would put pressure sooner than after you completely cut all your emissions. However putting such pressure has very little weight when you don't live up to it yourself, that's the point that you're conveniently ignoring by tunneling on the technicalities of a hyperbole.</quote> I don't believe that China's willingness to cut into their own bottom line would be impacted in any way by how much we've curtailed our own emissions. That sort of angle might work in negotiations with the EU, but it fundamentally misses how China operates.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FrozenXylophone 09/25/19 11:10:49 AM #59:	China is a economic issue. Want China to reduce emissions? We need to stop buying their products. When their factories can't move the stock, they will shut them down. Walmart is then a big contributor to China's footprint. Not only did they buy cheap chinese products, but they shut down small American businesses and promoted new ones to rise to also buy Chinese products. Then China made more and more factories and here we are. China is a you and me problem, not just a government problem. <cite>FrozenXylophone posted [p:927921917] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>China is a economic issue. Want China to reduce emissions? We need to stop buying their products. When their factories can't move the stock, they will shut them down. Walmart is then a big contributor to China's footprint. Not only did they buy cheap chinese products, but they shut down small American businesses and promoted new ones to rise to also buy Chinese products. Then China made more and more factories and here we are. China is a you and me problem, not just a government problem.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EzeDoesIt 09/25/19 11:14:20 AM #60:	FrozenXylophone posted... China is a economic issue. Want China to reduce emissions? We need to stop buying their products. When their factories can't move the stock, they will shut them down. Walmart is then a big contributor to China's footprint. Not only did they buy cheap chinese products, but they shut down small American businesses and promoted new ones to rise to also buy Chinese products. Then China made more and more factories and here we are. China is a you and me problem, not just a government problem. Am I wrong or do something like 90% of Walmarts goods come from China? --- Not changing this sig. <cite>EzeDoesIt posted [p:927922056] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>FrozenXylophone posted...</cite> <quote>China is a economic issue. Want China to reduce emissions? We need to stop buying their products. When their factories can't move the stock, they will shut them down. Walmart is then a big contributor to China's footprint. Not only did they buy cheap chinese products, but they shut down small American businesses and promoted new ones to rise to also buy Chinese products. Then China made more and more factories and here we are. China is a you and me problem, not just a government problem.</quote> Am I wrong or do something like 90% of Walmarts goods come from China?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FrozenXylophone 09/25/19 11:23:12 AM #61:	EzeDoesIt posted... Am I wrong or do something like 90% of Walmarts goods come from China? Quick google, first result Walmart China firmly believes in local sourcing with over 95 percent of their merchandise coming from local sources. In America, estimates say that Chinese suppliers make up 70-80 percent of Walmart's merchandise, leaving less than 20 percent for American-made products.Jun 27, 2016 You were close. <cite>FrozenXylophone posted [p:927922438] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>EzeDoesIt posted...</cite> <quote>Am I wrong or do something like 90% of Walmarts goods come from China?</quote> Quick google, first result <quote> Walmart China firmly believes in local sourcing with over 95 percent of their merchandise coming from local sources. In America, estimates say that Chinese suppliers make up 70-80 percent of Walmart's merchandise, leaving less than 20 percent for American-made products.Jun 27, 2016</quote> You were close.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scar the 1 09/25/19 11:24:37 AM #62:	s0nicfan posted... I don't believe that China's willingness to cut into their own bottom line would be impacted in any way by how much we've curtailed our own emissions. That sort of angle might work in negotiations with the EU, but it fundamentally misses how China operates. It's certainly not the only factor, but it is just as certainly a baseline you need to meet in literally any negotiation that is not based on bullying --- Stop being so aggressively argumentative for no reason. - UnfairRepresent <cite>scar the 1 posted [p:927922499] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>s0nicfan posted...</cite> <quote>I don't believe that China's willingness to cut into their own bottom line would be impacted in any way by how much we've curtailed our own emissions. That sort of angle might work in negotiations with the EU, but it fundamentally misses how China operates.</quote> It's certainly not the only factor, but it is just as certainly a baseline you need to meet in literally any negotiation that is not based on bullying</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DifferentialEquation 09/25/19 11:29:58 AM #63:	HypnoCoosh posted... TheMikh posted... You get those filthy facts out of here!!! China has always been of the biggest polluters. If Democrats really cared about the environment as they claimed, then they would be helping Trump win the trade war against them instead of trying to hinder it. Trump winning against China = less industry in China = less pollution. It really is that simple. --- There's no business to be taxed. <cite>DifferentialEquation posted [p:927922724] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>HypnoCoosh posted...</cite> <quote>TheMikh posted...</cite> <quote></quote> You get those filthy facts out of here!!!</quote> China has always been of the biggest polluters. If Democrats really cared about the environment as they claimed, then they would be helping Trump win the trade war against them instead of trying to hinder it. Trump winning against China = less industry in China = less pollution. It really is that simple.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FrozenXylophone 09/25/19 11:32:12 AM #64:	DifferentialEquation posted... HypnoCoosh posted... TheMikh posted... You get those filthy facts out of here!!! China has always been of the biggest polluters. If Democrats really cared about the environment as they claimed, then they would be helping Trump win the trade war against them instead of trying to hinder it. Trump winning against China = less industry in China = less pollution. It really is that simple. Then it just shifts to the USA. The problem is the industries, not the country. You gotta give up them products. <cite>FrozenXylophone posted [p:927922801] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>DifferentialEquation posted...</cite> <quote>HypnoCoosh posted...</cite> <quote>TheMikh posted...</cite> <quote></quote> You get those filthy facts out of here!!!</quote> China has always been of the biggest polluters. If Democrats really cared about the environment as they claimed, then they would be helping Trump win the trade war against them instead of trying to hinder it. Trump winning against China = less industry in China = less pollution. It really is that simple.</quote> Then it just shifts to the USA. The problem is the industries, not the country. You gotta give up them products.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DifferentialEquation 09/25/19 11:36:22 AM #65:	FrozenXylophone posted... DifferentialEquation posted... HypnoCoosh posted... TheMikh posted... You get those filthy facts out of here!!! China has always been of the biggest polluters. If Democrats really cared about the environment as they claimed, then they would be helping Trump win the trade war against them instead of trying to hinder it. Trump winning against China = less industry in China = less pollution. It really is that simple. Then it just shifts to the USA. The problem is the industries, not the country. You gotta give up them products. U.S. factories pollute far less than ones in China. The problem is also that a lot of products are designed to be disposable and be obsolete within a few years instead (and intentionally made more difficult for consumers to repair) of lasting a lifetime which I also blame mostly the Democrats for. --- There's no business to be taxed. <cite>DifferentialEquation posted [p:927922973] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>FrozenXylophone posted...</cite> <quote>DifferentialEquation posted...</cite> <quote>HypnoCoosh posted...</cite> <quote>TheMikh posted...</cite> <quote></quote> You get those filthy facts out of here!!!</quote> China has always been of the biggest polluters. If Democrats really cared about the environment as they claimed, then they would be helping Trump win the trade war against them instead of trying to hinder it. Trump winning against China = less industry in China = less pollution. It really is that simple.</quote> Then it just shifts to the USA. The problem is the industries, not the country. You gotta give up them products.</quote> U.S. factories pollute far less than ones in China. The problem is also that a lot of products are designed to be disposable and be obsolete within a few years instead (and intentionally made more difficult for consumers to repair) of lasting a lifetime which I also blame mostly the Democrats for.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hop103 09/25/19 11:38:23 AM #66:	Then go after the third world countries and especially China (a second world country) over this, according to the graph posted, the 1st world isn't polluting the seas as much. --- "In the name of the future moon I shall punish you"-Chibi Moon <cite>Hop103 posted [p:927923054] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>Then go after the third world countries and especially China (a second world country) over this, according to the graph posted, the 1st world isn't polluting the seas as much.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FrozenXylophone 09/25/19 11:41:01 AM #67:	@Hop103 posted... Then go after the third world countries and especially China (a second world country) over this, according to the graph posted, the 1st world isn't polluting the seas as much. 1st world buys all the things China is making in their factories which are causing all the emissions. You think other 3rd world country is buying alot of their products? 1st world country shares responsibility <cite>FrozenXylophone posted [p:927923170] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>@Hop103 posted...</cite> <quote>Then go after the third world countries and especially China (a second world country) over this, according to the graph posted, the 1st world isn't polluting the seas as much.</quote> 1st world buys all the things China is making in their factories which are causing all the emissions. You think other 3rd world country is buying alot of their products? 1st world country shares responsibility</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EzeDoesIt 09/25/19 12:08:14 PM #68:	DifferentialEquation posted... FrozenXylophone posted... DifferentialEquation posted... HypnoCoosh posted... TheMikh posted... You get those filthy facts out of here!!! China has always been of the biggest polluters. If Democrats really cared about the environment as they claimed, then they would be helping Trump win the trade war against them instead of trying to hinder it. Trump winning against China = less industry in China = less pollution. It really is that simple. Then it just shifts to the USA. The problem is the industries, not the country. You gotta give up them products. U.S. factories pollute far less than ones in China. The problem is also that a lot of products are designed to be disposable and be obsolete within a few years instead (and intentionally made more difficult for consumers to repair) of lasting a lifetime which I also blame mostly the Democrats for. Thats done for profit which is the rights main motive. --- Not changing this sig. <cite>EzeDoesIt posted [p:927924318] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>DifferentialEquation posted...</cite> <quote>FrozenXylophone posted...</cite> <quote>DifferentialEquation posted...</cite> <quote>HypnoCoosh posted...</cite> <quote>TheMikh posted...</cite> <quote></quote> You get those filthy facts out of here!!!</quote> China has always been of the biggest polluters. If Democrats really cared about the environment as they claimed, then they would be helping Trump win the trade war against them instead of trying to hinder it. Trump winning against China = less industry in China = less pollution. It really is that simple.</quote> Then it just shifts to the USA. The problem is the industries, not the country. You gotta give up them products.</quote> U.S. factories pollute far less than ones in China. The problem is also that a lot of products are designed to be disposable and be obsolete within a few years instead (and intentionally made more difficult for consumers to repair) of lasting a lifetime which I also blame mostly the Democrats for.</quote> Thats done for profit which is the rights main motive.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YoshitoKikuchi 09/25/19 2:14:07 PM #69:	bump --- Dont be ridiculous. I think FIVE evil steps ahead https://imgur.com/YQpeyD3 <cite>YoshitoKikuchi posted [p:927929955] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>bump</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
YoshitoKikuchi 09/25/19 7:28:34 PM #70:	bump --- Dont be ridiculous. I think FIVE evil steps ahead https://imgur.com/YQpeyD3 <cite>YoshitoKikuchi posted [p:927944124] in Ominous wa... [t:78040364]...</cite> <quote>bump</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Ominous warning from UN: World's oceans in peril (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Ominous warning from UN: World's oceans in peril