Current Events > Prominent studies are showing that Obesity is NOT caused by lack of Willpower .

(+) Yeah! (+)

Barenziah Boy Toy posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

Uhh, yeah? Go to Scandinavia and compare portion sizes and the kinds of food that gets eaten. If youd ever left your home city youd know this

So you're admitting that Scandinavians and Japanese people have 1000x more willpower than Americans.

They have cultures that are naturally disposed to discourage instances of obesity.

America has a culture of excess, you ingrain that into peoples minds for enough generations and its no small wonder the country has an obesity problem.

Japan in particular has a lot of other problems though that theyre struggling with, though. Like sexually assaulting women on trains. If willpower was an all-applicable power, and Japan had it, youd think those offenders could keep their hands to themselves. But its a problem. Because willpower is often only one aspect of a much more complex issue
---

ssjevot posted...

A big problem is what is being referred to as "willpower" is as much genetic as these other factors are. So saying oh you're genetically predisposed to be obese, but you can just willpower over it, doesn't mean much. That very well might be related to them same stress response changed seen in obese people. Willpower isn't some kind of magic ability, it is born of the same genetics as all our other traits, and shaped by the environment they live in. If their genes and environment lead to low willpower that isn't anymore something they can just change anymore than someone with schizophrenia can just change it.

Yeah, willpower is a folk psychological concept that has a very fuzzy definition in this context.

---

RebelElite791 posted...

Guide posted...

So get out into the world and dont be a shutin

"don't need to live in scandi to adapt"

make up your mind boombot

Did I say to go live there? Are you actually illiterate or is it an act?

RebelElite791 posted...

Guide posted...

So get out into the world and dont be a shutin

"don't need to live in scandi to adapt"

make up your mind boombot

Did I say to go live there? Are you actually illiterate or is it an act?

"go out into the world to learn about scandi, but don't necessarily go to scandi. all you have to do is leave your home city, no passport necessary"
---

Guide posted...

"go out into the world to learn about scandi, but don't necessarily go to scandi. all you have to do is leave your home city, no passport necessary"

You can go or not go. But if your argument is "I haven't been to Scandinavia so I can't copy their portion sizes," it's a failed one from the start.
---

RebelElite791 posted...

Guide posted...

"go out into the world to learn about scandi, but don't necessarily go to scandi. all you have to do is leave your home city, no passport necessary"

You can go or not go. But if your argument is "I haven't been to Scandinavia so I can't copy their portion sizes," it's a failed one from the start.

You're the one saying to leave home to learn about scandi.
---

Guide posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

Guide posted...

"go out into the world to learn about scandi, but don't necessarily go to scandi. all you have to do is leave your home city, no passport necessary"

You can go or not go. But if your argument is "I haven't been to Scandinavia so I can't copy their portion sizes," it's a failed one from the start.

You're the one saying to leave home to learn about scandi.

So go visit if you feel that you need visual confirmation of what a healthier lifestyle looks like.
---

Anyway, from an anecdotal perspective, I understand both perspectives. I grew up very fat. I'm 5'7" and at my heaviest I was around 205-210. I started working out and changed my eating behavior and got down to around 132. That's when I was in college. When I graduated I started working a lot (had at least two jobs at a time for a few years, sometimes three) and got a girlfriend. I gained most of the weight back. Maybe got up to 195.

Right now I'm like 155 which I think is pretty healthy. I can squat like 1.5x my weight for reps and DL almost 2x, that kinda shit.

I admit I def struggle with my relationship with food but you only have so much bandwidth to prioritize things.

---

RebelElite791 posted...

Guide posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

Guide posted...

"go out into the world to learn about scandi, but don't necessarily go to scandi. all you have to do is leave your home city, no passport necessary"

You can go or not go. But if your argument is "I haven't been to Scandinavia so I can't copy their portion sizes," it's a failed one from the start.

You're the one saying to leave home to learn about scandi.

So go visit if you feel that you need visual confirmation of what a healthier lifestyle looks like.

if your argument is "I haven't been to Scandinavia so I can't copy their portion sizes," it's a failed one from the start
---

Ultima Dragon posted...

It's not even about eating healthy food, it's just about eating less of the bad stuff.. and moving more. I grew up in a shitty household, was poor all my life and still am, lots of stress/anxiety/depression. Diabetes and heart disease run in my family and most of them are overweight including my own mother who I would consider obese. So I'm not genetically gifted by any means.

To this day I still have a shit diet (takeout every single day). I can make whatever excuse I want for it. It was how I learned/grew up, I don't have the time or money to prepare proper meals, whatever. But at the end of the day it's still on me for eating bad food and I know it. However, I hit the weights every day and stay active. I drink only water and keep the really bad stuff (sugar laden candies/desserts, empty calories like chips and the like) to a minimum. If I'm going to go to McDonalds, I'll grab a burger and fries (water or no drink) and make it work with my daily goals. Because of this, I've managed to stay in good shape and without health issues for my entire life so far (33 right now).

I will always agree that fat people shouldn't be treated any worse than the rest of us (like, I imagine saying that kind of shit to my own mother for example.. no way). But food is an addiction like any other, and it can have similar or worse health implications than any other drug addiction that people turn to in order to cope with upbringing or stress/depression. I think rehab programs preach a lot about personal accountability, so I really think that pretending the problem is 100% out of their control (or worse, pretending that there isn't a problem at all) isn't the answer. That's just going to keep people sitting around and waiting for a magic pill to come out that will solve their "impossible to fix" problems for them that they were "just born with." When in reality, self-control and diligent physical activity are the only things that are going to get you there.

Well said. I'm sorry but fat shaming being bad doesn't in turn make being obese acceptable. No obese person should just accept being obese. Ever.

Certainly there are factors that will make it easier or more difficult to beat obesity, other than your willpower. That doesn't mean your willpower isn't also part of the equation. Obesity is a tough beast, no question. Good luck.
---

No obese person should just accept being obese.

There was one in recorded history! Probably a couple others, but this one was a doozy.

Jon Brower Minnoch (September 29, 1941 September 10, 1983) was an American man who, at his peak weight, was the heaviest human being ever recorded, weighing 1,400 lb (635 kilograms; 100 stone).

Minnoch was diagnosed with massive generalized edema, a condition in which the body accumulates excess extracellular fluid. Upon his hospital admission, it was estimated by endocrinologist Robert Schwartz that over 900 lbs (408 kg) of his overall body mass was retained fluid.[4]

He was discharged from the hospital after 16 months on a strict diet of 1,200 kcal (5,000 kJ) per day.[4] He weighed 476 lb (216 kg; 34 st), having lost approximately 924 lb (419 kg; 66 st), the largest human weight loss ever documented.[5] However, he was readmitted to the hospital just over a year later in October 1981, after his weight increased to 952 lb (432 kg; 68 st). With his underlying condition of edema being incurable and difficult to treat, the decision was made to discontinue treatment, and he died 23 months later on September 10, 1983, aged 41. At the time of his death, he weighed 798 lb (362 kg; 57 st) with a Body Mass Index of 105.3.[4]

---

Barenziah Boy Toy posted...

Esrac posted...

It was because I developed some motivation and made better choices.

Instead of hitting that fast food drive through 4 or 5 times a week for dinner, I'd eat baked chicken breast and vegetables at home.

You had the luxury and access of being able to cook and bake healthy meals at home.

Dude, you're full of shit. Being able to take 20 minutes to bake a chicken breast and boil some green beans isn't a luxury.

Unless you're actually homeless, you can bake a piece of chicken. But if you're homeless, youre probably less likely to be really fat.

Reaching real hard to make excuses for fat people.
---

s0nicfan posted...

Barenziah Boy Toy posted...

You had the luxury and access of being able to cook and bake healthy meals at home.

Amazing that you'd go as far as trying to take away someone's own success from them to try and prove your point. "It's not that you worked hard and persevered. You're just privileged!"

Dude, here's the thing. It's not even that hard. Literally just change in diet and don't eat a bunch of bad foods. So easy that virtually anyone can do it. Which is why I have no patience or sympathy for people who are persistently obese.

Hell, it was even cheaper than the fast food by quite a bit.

Barenziah Boy Toy posted...

The Admiral posted...

Budgeting your time or cooking meals in advance if you have a busy week takes willpower.

And some people have too many other important things to do.

You're full of shit. Again. It takes less time to bake a chicken breast and boil some vegetables than it does to drive into town and go through the drive through or order pizza.

Especially when you live in a rural area like I did, where the nearest McDonald's, Taco Bell, Whataburger, or Little Caesar's was about a 20 - 30 minute drive on the interstate into another town. One way.
---

Environment, affordability, support system.... yawn.

Working out and running is free just go outside. support systems? Just do it yourself. I did it when I was running 5 miles everyday and cut out all bad foods to cut weight.
---

Why are people more overweight now than ever in history?

---

evil_zombie11 posted...

Environment, affordability, support system.... yawn.

Working out and running is free just go outside. support systems? Just do it yourself. I did it when I was running 5 miles everyday and cut out all bad foods to cut weight.

If it makes you feel better, how about just framing it in your head like you're better and more virtuous than other people, so what works for you doesn't work for everyone.

What do you think about that?

---

No >:(

If an outta shape pos like me could do it anyone can.
---

"I know better than a fucking study. Its just common sense! Eat more green beans and we can solve world obesity." - Bipples, the Amazing Counting and Spelling Wonder Horse, who read the article
---

Also @Esrac I was at my fattest when I was homeless and now that I'm affluent AF I have a much harder time staying in shape than I did when I was poor but not homeless

It's great you fixed yourself but the weight thing is definitely more complicated than personal choice or w/e

---

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

"I know better than a fucking study. Its just common sense! Eat more green beans and we can solve world obesity." - Bipples, the Amazing Counting and Spelling Wonder Horse, who read the article

I mean, if I think a study is bullshit, I'm gonna say I think its bullshit.

Not all studies are worth the paper they're printed on.
---

evil_zombie11 posted...

No >:(

If an outta shape pos like me could do it anyone can.

Did you read my story of weight loss and weight gain? what do you think about that? If someone can gain weight again after losing it, like most ppl do statistically, what does that say about how willpower

---

Balrog0 posted...

Also @Esrac I was at my fattest when I was homeless and now that I'm affluent AF I have a much harder time staying in shape than I did when I was poor but not homeless

It's great you fixed yourself but the weight thing is definitely more complicated than personal choice or w/e

Whatever, man. I've been poor as shit, working shitty jobs with long shitty hours, and I've had kids. I've had and have debt. I've lived in rural, backwoods shitholes. All this talk about people being fat because of stress, lack of easy access, or whatever rings hollow to me.

No way do I believe that such a large percentage of Americans are in a situation where they're unable to eat less high-calorie food or eat more, cheap healthier foods.

More likely, it's as simple as high calorie Popeye's Fried Chicken, with cajun rice, and mashed potatoes tastes better than baked chicken breast and poiled vegetables. Or being hungry is a bit uncomfortable. But if you want to lose weight, you need to choose foods that don't necessarily taste as good and you need to be a little hungry sometimes.
---

Balrog0 posted...

evil_zombie11 posted...

No >:(

If an outta shape pos like me could do it anyone can.

Did you read my story of weight loss and weight gain? what do you think about that? If someone can gain weight again after losing it, like most ppl do statistically, what does that say about how willpower

I just did and the weight you gained back seems more on the side of weight gain through muscle gains with your lifting which is good. I'm referring from your squat and deadlift numbers and your gym lifting.

Some people will gain weight back but I think it's just having your priorities right.

Also the MyFitnessPal app helps with calorie counting if you ever wanna use that app and play around with it, pretty useful.
---

Esrac posted...

Whatever, man. I've been poor as shit, working shitty jobs with long shitty hours, and I've had kids. I've had and have debt. I've lived in rural, backwoods shitholes. All this talk about people being fat because of stress, lack of easy access, or whatever rings hollow to me.

That speaks poorly of you and your ability to empathize with others imo

Esrac posted...

No way do I believe that such a large percentage of Americans are in a situation where they're unable to eat less high-calorie food or eat more, cheap healthier foods.

Yeah as @ssjevot pointed out it's more complicated than the ability to must gut it out

Esrac posted...

More likely, it's as simple as high calorie Popeye's Fried Chicken, with cajun rice, and mashed potatoes tastes better than baked chicken breast and poiled vegetables. Or being hungry is a bit uncomfortable. But if you want to lose weight, you need to choose foods that don't necessarily taste as good and you need to be a little hungry sometimes.

Ok

---

Balrog0 posted...

Did you read my story of weight loss and weight gain? what do you think about that? If someone can gain weight again after losing it, like most ppl do statistically, what does that say about how willpower

If your weight gain was due to muscle, then that doesn't count. No one is gonna fault you for getting those gains, brah.

---

evil_zombie11 posted...

I just did and the weight you gained back seems more on the side of weight gain through muscle gains with your lifting which is good. I'm referring from your squat and deadlift numbers and your gym lifting.

Some people will gain weight back but I think it's just having your priorities right.

Also the MyFitnessPal app helps with calorie counting if you ever wanna use that app and play around with it, pretty useful.

Nah. I got fat AF. I lift less now than I did when i weighed 132. Being strong and thin just took a back burner to other stuff for like 3 years for me

---

Fat people can be fat, but they shouldn't come to us and point their fingers when we call them fat.

---

Esrac posted...

You're full of shit. Again. It takes less time to bake a chicken breast and boil some vegetables than it does to drive into town and go through the drive through or order pizza.

Especially when you live in a rural area like I did, where the nearest McDonald's, Taco Bell, Whataburger, or Little Caesar's was about a 20 - 30 minute drive on the interstate into another town. One way.

you have to go out and actually buy the chicken and vegetables, which some people dont have the time to do.

and it sounds like environmental factors were the reason you didnt eat fast food. imagine if the situation was reversed and it was easy to get fast food but going out to buy the chicken and vegetables was a 20 - 30 minute drive one-way into another town.
---

Balrog0 posted...

That speaks poorly of you and your ability to empathize with others imo

Yeah as @ssjevot pointed out it's more complicated than the ability to must gut it out

Ok

Empathy is overrated.

---

Reassess and then create a plan of attack again >:D

Or idk depends on your life and where you can fit in cutting weight and getting lean again.
---

MwarriorHiei posted...

you have to go out and actually buy the chicken and vegetables, which some people dont have the time to do.

What the fuck did I just read? Some people will always try to find excuses.

---

I wonder how many people ITT swearing up and down how easy it is for anyone to reverse obesity, also criticize the bootstraps argument when it comes to poverty. >_>
---

evil_zombie11 posted...

Reassess and then create a plan of attack again >:D

Or idk depends on your life and where you can fit in cutting weight and getting lean again.

I mean I am but that's kind of my point you know

Like if I'd been working out as diligently for the last 5 years as I did the 3 years before that I'd be jacked AF but other things were priorities

---

Are you one of those people who also thinks people who have depression should just use their willpower to get over it? If so, that would explain a lot.
---

MwarriorHiei posted...

you have to go out and actually buy the chicken and vegetables, which some people dont have the time to do.

and it sounds like environmental factors were the reason you didnt eat fast food. imagine if the situation was reversed and it was easy to get fast food but going out to buy the chicken and vegetables was a 20 - 30 minute drive one-way into another town.

I absolutely don't believe people don't have time to buy some fucking groceries. That 20 - 30 minute drive and the hour or two at the store is not that long when you're buying a week or two's worth of food.

And no, for years, I ate that fast food. I'd drive into town almost every night to hit that drive through at 1AM after work. Because cheeseburgers were fucking delicious.

And if I did eat at home, it was big portions of frozen pizza or frozen pot pies, or any other shitty food option that seems convenient, but actually takes just as long to cook. Not even counting shit like ice cream, Little Debbie's, cookies, candy, etc.

It wasn't until I really decided to lose weight that I spent that time on cooking healthier food.

---

RebelElite791 posted...

Stress makes me overeat is still a lack of willpower. None of this changes CICO.

Plenty of formerly fat or obese people have made the *choice* to stop and improve their life.

Quoting this just to counter the general sentiment.
There have been studies showing that someone with the same calories in and out, now, would still have higher body fat than someone 30 years ago. Our foods have changed, our microbiomes have changed, it isn't just a change in behavior.

Yes, you can restrict your diet and work out more. That has been the case for all of human history. Even accounting for modern sedentary lifestyles, environmental factors (FOOD and "GENETICS") make it easier to retain fat, make it easier to become addicted to food, make it harder to diet. And that's the point. Yes, people need to make the choice to be healthy, we also need to teach people how to live healthy (because it is more of a problem now for a whole host of reasons), but also need to address environmental issues which make it harder for people to stay healthy.
---

ssjevot posted...

Are you one of those people who also thinks people who have depression should just use their willpower to get over it? If so, that would explain a lot.

Are you asking me?

If so, not really. I mean, I've had issues with depression, lack of energy, self-loathing, suicidal thoughts, loneliness, etc. since I was a kid. And I'm 33 now, so I have a history of that kind of thing.

But, ya know, you kinda have to just suck it up. Still have shit to do and people who need you to do it. I am almost never actually happy or enthusiastic or whatever, but it is what it is.

If you can get therapy for it, you should. Hell, I was talking to the chaplain on base several times last month for that kind of thing and other stuff. I know I did a bit of crying each time, because shit can get emotional.

---

Siaperaz posted...

MwarriorHiei posted...

you have to go out and actually buy the chicken and vegetables, which some people dont have the time to do.

What the fuck did I just read? Some people will always try to find excuses.

for part of my week, i literally go to classes, then i go to work, then i go to classes, then i sleep for 3 hours, then i go to work. the rest of my time is spent finishing up homework and catching up on sleep. just because youve never had anyone in your life with zero time for themselves doesnt mean they dont actually exist. the only reason im not overweight is because i literally only have time to eat once a day. taking the time to actually go out and buy/prepare healthy food would leave me with like 1 or 2 hours of sleep, and theres no fucking way im gonna do that.
---

MwarriorHiei posted...

for part of my week, i literally go to classes, then i go to work, then i go to classes, then i sleep for 3 hours, then i go to work. the rest of my time is spent finishing up homework and catching up on sleep. just because youve never had anyone in your life with zero time for themselves doesnt mean they dont actually exist. the only reason im not overweight is because i literally only have time to eat once a day. taking the time to actually go out and buy/prepare healthy food would leave me with like 1 or 2 hours of sleep, and theres no fucking way im gonna do that.

Sounds like it is a matter of choices after all. Choosing to eat fewer times during the day, choosing to sleep instead of buying or preparing better food, choosing to spend so much time on classes in the first place.

Yeah, it sucks, but that kind of schedule is your choice. Presumably because you're working toward a better living later. Eating once a day is probably the right choice.

---

MwarriorHiei posted...

the rest of my time is spent finishing up homework and catching up on sleep. just because youve never had anyone in your life with zero time for themselves doesnt mean they dont actually exist

And my question is did this study just happen to have a population where this was the case for all of them, because all of these excuses about not being able to go to the grocery store and spend 20 minutes cooking sounds like melodramatic bs. Is this some study only about some true grit fat Americans too busy working hard that they literally have no time in the day or any means whatsoever to not shove McDonalds down their gullet?

And this has nothing to do with financial bootstraps. Financial success is something largely out of your hands, what you put into your body is another story
---

barring an actual medical condition, it absolutely is caused by a lack of willpower

Esrac posted...

Sounds like it is a matter of choices after all. Choosing to eat fewer times during the day, choosing to sleep instead of buying or preparing better food, choosing to spend so much time on classes in the first place.

Yeah, it sucks, but that kind of schedule is your choice. Presumably because you're working toward a better living later. Eating once a day is probably the right choice.

except its not a choice. i am forced to eat once a day because i literally have zero time. i dont choose to sleep instead of buying food, i am forced to sleep or else i'll literally fucking die at work due to exhaustion/decreased awareness (i actually lost a big chunk of finger already). i choose to go to school, but i am forced to go to work or else i will be homeless. a lot of people at work have two jobs, meaning at least 16 hours of their day is already taken up by work. this doesnt even account transportation time (most of them use public transportation). this leaves less than 8 hours for sleep and/or whatever else they need to do.

this is what people mean when they say that environmental factors are more important than willpower.
---

SSMajinVegeta2 posted...

Why are people more overweight now than ever in history?

Because food is more processed and abundant now than ever

Biologically we are designed to eat as much as possible and store fat for famine. Our bodies havent changed but our living situation has. Your body has no idea that you have processed garbage food all around and that the possibility of starving due to famine is low.

Also, if you ate thw way our anscestors ate, you would find it very hard to be obese, even Though evidence shows that they ate as much of not more than we do today.
---

No one should be made fun of because of their weight.

With the exception of medical conditions, it is a lack of will power/laziness/overeating/eating the wrong foods/eating too late at night/lack of exercise/lack of discipline etc. AKA ~ choices

---

This study is BS. Most asians are at a healthy weight and they fat shame like crazy.
---

I will never understand why fat people make others angry. It's such a bizarre, unproductive response
---

hockeybub89 posted...

I will never understand why fat people make others angry. It's such a bizarre, unproductive response

My guess is that it's not anger but superiority. People like having a class of people who are definitely beneath them.

Which is why people ascribe personality flaws to the cause of obesity, "willpower".

---

Maintaining a healthy weight is a decision which is made easier or harder by both environmental factors (upbringing) as well as genetic factors (metabolism, IQ). Of course metabolism and IQ are not entirely genetic, and plenty of fat people have high IQs.

Its fine to talk about how doctors should encourage patients who have a weight problem, but to say that losing weight is not reliant on a decision from the individual is robbing them of agency.
---

I'm not entirely sure exactly what "willpower" is supposed to mean exactly here but this isn't very difficult to understand.
Actively losing weight requires a lot of energy. There are a lot of reasons why people might not have this energy, and several of those aren't the fault of the individual. Furthermore, fat shaming adds a stress that further actually saps away energy, making things worse rather than better.

If people were actually honest about considering obesity a public health issue that they want to solve, they would trust the science over anecdotes - building a positive environment and reducing stress in all its forms (e.g., poverty, social security, etc) enables people to live and eat more healthily.
But people don't care about science. They don't care that diets rarely work. Maybe this is because they don't really care about fat people very much, they just like being mean to them?
---

COVxy posted...

People like having a class of people who are definitely beneath them

(this is, not surprisingly, the core of the whole thing. Obesity is very strongly correlated with class)
---