Current Events > Is Neil deGrasse-Tyson right?

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/1175366234419994626?s=20
---

I recently saw some article comparing him to Einstein and Stephen Hawking. LOL
---

No. Any species with enough curiosity and ingenuity to create interstellar technology would likely care about discovering extraterrestrial life.
---

I think he's right. Higher forms of intelligence probably already know Earth as the crazy monkey-people planet.

The problem for me is Neil deGrasse Tyson gets as much wrong as he gets right. I mean, I just don't appreciate being talked down to, especially about astrophysics.
---

It's a mistake to try to predict the behaviour of a species by their technology instead of their culture.
---

Nah, as rare a life seems to be in the universe, I'd think aliens would be pretty interested.
---

We have no idea how aliens would think.

---

Also, this.
Verdekal posted...

We have no idea how aliens would think.

---

It would probably be best for us if they weren't interested
---

DuranOfForcena posted...

it's true. Stephen Hawking was known to have asserted that intelligent space-faring life finding us would be like the Europeans finding Native Americans, and it would end badly for us, but the gulf between what earth life is and what a species capable of interstellar spaceflight would have to be would be almost unthinkably larger that of the Europeans and Native Americans. we would barely be a blip on their radar. we'd be like ants to them.

If we discovered ants on another planet, it'd be huge.
---

If they existed and could do so, it would be foolish to think they'd see us and think "shoot stuff into space, discovered atomic bombs, full of a lot of people with anger issues, yeah, let's not keep a close eye on this one.

Of course it would be hidden from a distance. I can see it now: "half that planet would kill us for being different, and the other would vilify 90% of galactic cultures as problematic and try to force their worldview on them. best keep them ignorant of us and contained."
---

A lot of times he's in the "You're not wrong. You're just an asshole" category.
---

lilORANG posted...

DuranOfForcena posted...

it's true. Stephen Hawking was known to have asserted that intelligent space-faring life finding us would be like the Europeans finding Native Americans, and it would end badly for us, but the gulf between what earth life is and what a species capable of interstellar spaceflight would have to be would be almost unthinkably larger that of the Europeans and Native Americans. we would barely be a blip on their radar. we'd be like ants to them.

If we discovered ants on another planet, it'd be huge.

Exactly for us we will tweet/message/post/etc. Higher life forms wouldn't care.
---

DuranOfForcena posted...

lilORANG posted...

DuranOfForcena posted...

it's true. Stephen Hawking was known to have asserted that intelligent space-faring life finding us would be like the Europeans finding Native Americans, and it would end badly for us, but the gulf between what earth life is and what a species capable of interstellar spaceflight would have to be would be almost unthinkably larger that of the Europeans and Native Americans. we would barely be a blip on their radar. we'd be like ants to them.

If we discovered ants on another planet, it'd be huge.

true, but the point is, if they were capable of interstellar travel all throughout the galaxy, then we likely wouldn't be the first "ants" they'd encounter, and we may even be considered mundane or routine to them.

If intelligent life was so common in this galaxy that theyd find it mundane, wed be getting daily signals from those planets.

Life in this galaxy is either non-existent, incredibly rare, or so different from us that we cant understand them.
---

Its somehow both nihilistic and self-righteous.
---

lightwarrior78 posted...

If they existed and could do so, it would be foolish to think they'd see us and think "shoot stuff into space, discovered atomic bombs, full of a lot of people with anger issues, yeah, let's not keep a close eye on this one.

Of course it would be hidden from a distance. I can see it now: "half that planet would kill us for being different, and the other would vilify 90% of galactic cultures as problematic and try to force their worldview on them. best keep them ignorant of us and contained."

You're making a lot of assumptions about a theoretical spacefaring race. They could also agree with either of those sides or completely transcend our petty human emotions.
---

I think the keyword in that tweet is egocentric.

He's calling people out for assuming aliens would automatically be interested us, rather than stating that they definitely wouldn't. One of the constant themes if you listen to Tyson talk is the vastness of the universe and the relative insignificance of humanity in comparison. He's just trying to check people's egos and broaden people's perspectives, because humanity in general is pretty self-centered.
---

i love how everyone bites on NDGT's bait

xD

keep keeping on Neil!
---

PMarth2002 posted...

I think the keyword in that tweet is egocentric.

He's calling people out for assuming aliens would automatically be interested us, rather than stating that they definitely wouldn't. One of the constant themes if you listen to Tyson talk is the vastness of the universe and the relative insignificance of humanity in comparison. He's just trying to check people's egos and broaden people's perspectives, because humanity in general is pretty self-centered.

Sure, but any species capable of inventing interstellar travel will be egocentric also.
---

Maybe there are multiple aliens with different views of Earth, but the Space UN has strict first contact laws :p
---

The Admiral posted...

Sure, but any species capable of inventing interstellar travel will be egocentric also.

What makes you think that?
---

hockeybub89 posted...

lightwarrior78 posted...

If they existed and could do so, it would be foolish to think they'd see us and think "shoot stuff into space, discovered atomic bombs, full of a lot of people with anger issues, yeah, let's not keep a close eye on this one.

Of course it would be hidden from a distance. I can see it now: "half that planet would kill us for being different, and the other would vilify 90% of galactic cultures as problematic and try to force their worldview on them. best keep them ignorant of us and contained."

You're making a lot of assumptions about a theoretical spacefaring race. They could also agree with either of those sides or completely transcend our petty human emotions.

Any talk of alien life involves some blind speculation. Left to assume they do exist, I think conquers would have hit us already, and peaceful ones wouldn't want contamination. They'd probably bury it under some Prime Directive bullshit, but they'd want to keep their distance.
---

Sphyx posted...

The Admiral posted...

Sure, but any species capable of inventing interstellar travel will be egocentric also.

What makes you think that?

Why else create technology to leave your planet? The reasons will be for resources (self interest), exploration, or a desire to conquer. All of those imply some level of egocentrism.
---

See, you're basing how they think entirely on how we think. Seems a potentially silly mistake to make.
---

Sphyx posted...

See, you're basing how they think entirely on how we think. Seems a potentially silly mistake to make.

It's almost like he's acting like an egocentric human
---

Sphyx posted...

See, you're basing how they think entirely on how we think. Seems a potentially silly mistake to make.

Well, were basing the idea that extraterrestrial life could even exist on how we developed here. You cant make assumptions based on that but then ignore the likely evolutionary similarities.
---

The Admiral posted...

If intelligent life was so common in this galaxy that theyd find it mundane, wed be getting daily signals from those planets.

Life in this galaxy is either non-existent, incredibly rare, or so different from us that we cant understand them.

I don't agree with the "we'd be getting daily signals from those planets" point. I mean, humans have only been using radio signals for less than 2 centuries. Based on the speed of those signals, they really haven't traveled THAT far into the universe (all things considered). Assuming other intelligent life exists, there's no reason to believe that their species would have had their signals (assuming they even use them) reach us by now.

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/3390.html

Here's a reference on how far our radio signals have traveled.

---

The Admiral posted...

Well, were basing the idea that extraterrestrial life could even exist on how we developed here. You cant make assumptions based on that but then ignore the likely evolutionary similarities.

Similarities with what?
What are we comparing ourselves with when we're the only thing we have to go on?
---

Sphyx posted...

The Admiral posted...

Well, were basing the idea that extraterrestrial life could even exist on how we developed here. You cant make assumptions based on that but then ignore the likely evolutionary similarities.

Similarities with what?
What are we comparing ourselves with when we're the only thing we have to go on?

Similarities with how any intelligent, apex species would evolve under Darwinism.
---

brandunh11 posted...

The Admiral posted...

If intelligent life was so common in this galaxy that theyd find it mundane, wed be getting daily signals from those planets.

Life in this galaxy is either non-existent, incredibly rare, or so different from us that we cant understand them.

I don't agree with the "we'd be getting daily signals from those planets" point. I mean, humans have only been using radio signals for less than 2 centuries. Based on the speed of those signals, they really haven't traveled THAT far into the universe (all things considered). Assuming other intelligent life exists, there's no reason to believe that their species would have had their signals (assuming they even use them) reach us by now.

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/3390.html

Here's a reference on how far our radio signals have traveled.

Thats really interesting. Thanks for posting.
---

Based solely on the one species we know to have done so, and by our theory on how life on our own planet developed.
---

lmao @ nihilism
---

Sphyx posted...

Based solely on the one species we know to have done so, and by our theory on how life on our own planet developed.

Is there a reason to think Darwinism would be limited to Earth?
---

Without even looking at whatever edgelord tweet he made, I'm going to guess no. He's most likely just making his usual trolling comments.
---

The Admiral posted...

No. Any species with enough curiosity and ingenuity to create interstellar technology would likely care about discovering extraterrestrial life.

Depends on how common it is.

---

I dunno this really bugs me actually lol. Its a faux-humility, and is just as presumptuous about a hypothetical civilizations values as the stance hes arguing against.

You could just as easily mirror that statement. >_>

How narrow-minded of us to think that Space Aliens, who have mastered interstellar travel across the Galaxy, would be so apathetic about life anywhere in the universe.
---

The Admiral posted...

If intelligent life was so common in this galaxy that theyd find it mundane, wed be getting daily signals from those planets.

Life in this galaxy is either non-existent, incredibly rare, or so different from us that we cant understand them.

At least you occasionally will flat out admit that you're just bullshitting for the lulz, like you did here.

---

brandunh11 posted...

I don't agree with the "we'd be getting daily signals from those planets" point. I mean, humans have only been using radio signals for less than 2 centuries. Based on the speed of those signals, they really haven't traveled THAT far into the universe (all things considered). Assuming other intelligent life exists, there's no reason to believe that their species would have had their signals (assuming they even use them) reach us by now.

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2012/3390.html

Here's a reference on how far our radio signals have traveled.

We're operating on the assumption that aliens have the technology for intergalactic travel. If they can send objects across galaxies within reasonable times, surely they can send light across just as fast. So we should be getting postcards from these guys by a bundle.
---

YoshitoKikuchi posted...

https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/1175366234419994626?s=20

Nah he's a moron for suggesting that.

There's literally people who spend ridiculous amounts of time studying languages that nobody speaks just so they can decipher a one page poem about some girl with huge tits.

Would interstellar aliens as a whole be disinterested? Yeah, maybe. But some wouldn't and those some would want to learn about us.

---

The Admiral posted...

Is there a reason to think Darwinism would be limited to Earth?

We have observed the interactions of our own planet's creatures enough to have formed a theory on how things have worked out HERE. We can't apply that universally without having repeated it enough in other sample groups to presume it may be a recurring thing. Doing so runs the risk of falling into a black swan fallacy.

This isn't a great analogy, but it would be like observing a specific chemical reaction in one test tube, then assuming the other test tubes will have the same reaction without knowing if they even have the same chemicals.
---

Sphyx posted...

The Admiral posted...

Is there a reason to think Darwinism would be limited to Earth?

We have observed the interactions of our own planet's creatures enough to have formed a theory on how things have worked out HERE. We can't apply that universally without having repeated it enough in other sample groups to presume it may be a recurring thing. Doing so runs the risk of falling into a black swan fallacy.

This isn't a great analogy, but it would be like observing a specific chemical reaction in one test tube, then assuming the other test tubes will have the same reaction without knowing if they even have the same chemicals.

I get that, but our assumptions about why life could potentially exist at all are based on those same observations. That's why we look for Earth-like planets in the habitable zone. Our assumption is that under similar conditions, life would evolve as it did here.

If we toss out that assumption, we have no basis to assume that extraterrestrial life isn't unique to our planet.
---

Sphyx posted...

We have observed the interactions of our own planet's creatures enough to have formed a theory on how things have worked out HERE. We can't apply that universally without having repeated it enough in other sample groups to presume it may be a recurring thing. Doing so runs the risk of falling into a black swan fallacy.

Generally, people would apply the same theories until they don't work. When that happens, they formulate to figure out how to put both under an umbrella term and create new laws that fit the observations.

This is what happened when people started exploring quantum mechanics. The laws of Classical mechanics went under, so they had to create a new set of formulas that fit the observations, Hamiltonian mechanics.
---

Sad_Face posted...

We're operating on the assumption that aliens have the technology for intergalactic travel. If they can send objects across galaxies within reasonable times, surely they can send light across just as fast. So we should be getting postcards from these guys by a bundle.

Even if were operating with that assumption, theres no reason to believe that we currently have the technology to receive such messages, much less interpret them.

---

brandunh11 posted...

Even if were operating with that assumption, theres no reason to believe that we currently have the technology to receive such messages, much less interpret them.

Touche, but then we can cross off the list that they're certainly not communicating on the electromagnetic spectrum as we know it. It'd have to be another medium they're communicating in, if they are.
---

The Admiral posted...

I get that, but our assumptions about why life could potentially exist at all are based on those same observations. That's why we look for Earth-like planets in the habitable zone. Our assumption is that under similar conditions, life would evolve as it did here.

To be fair, i think the part about only looking for Earth-like planets is a mistake too, but it can't hurt to focus our searches on what we know to have worked out once. But there's a difference between focusing on an area and presuming there's nothing to see outside it.

The Admiral posted...

If we toss out that assumption, we have no basis to assume that extraterrestrial life isn't unique to our planet.

I'm not sure that's a fair statement. Even on Earth, different races even with so much in common learned to see things very differently.

To pull this back on topic, remember we're not talking about how sentient species may have evolved, we're talking about how they may think.
---

bump
---