Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 242: China, in fact, DOES Care

(+) Yeah! (+)

TheRock1525 posted...

Grimlyn posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Beto was asked why he wasn't calling for banning all semi-automatic weapons, and he basically said "Yeah, we're open to that, if we can improve our proposal we'll look into reflecting that".

... so? a non-concrete idea they're looking into?

cool beans go ahead, taking issue with that seems like overeager fearmongering, you're going straight to 100 "they wanna take away your hamburgers over cow farts" simplification

"THEY WANT TO BAN AIR TRAVEL AND MAKE YOU RIDE A TRAIN EVERYWHERE!"

"This is a bad idea and a losing proposition"

"OH MY GOD WHAT A RIGHT WING BELIEF! THIS VAGUE QUESTION HAS POPULAR SUPPORT, WE ALL KNOW THAT MEANS ITS FOOLPROOF"
---

This is your friendly reminder to delete your facebook accounts

I shitpost on there, it's a lot of fun
---

In other news, an Antifa member in Portland was killed

https://www.opb.org/news/article/antifa-killed-homicide-cider-riot-sean-kealiher/

He was a member of one of the Facebook groups I'm in, and there are a lot of people pretty broken up about it.
---

If you think banning any guns, period, is bad, then thats a different argument entirely and it makes your reaction make more sense
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

"This is a bad idea and a losing proposition"

All evidence presented so far says it's not.

It's literally more popular than M4A.
---

Suppose a complete 100% firearms ban had 70% approval nationwide.

You wouldn't accept it if it were enacted?

Because it's a big deal to me that we should be accepting of policies that might not reflect our own positions if they have support.

A personal example would be that I think abortions should not be allowed except for the major exceptions of them being medically necessary to preserve the health of the mother or in traumatic situations such as rape. I do not approve of what I see as "frivolous" abortions. On an ethical and religious level it is essentially the cancelling of a human life. That's my personal stance, but that's not the prevailing opinion and it's not the current law so I accept what is. To go further I speak out against the bullshit restrictions that get put in place to restrict people's access to abortions. Restrictions that are disguised as medically necessary but are actually just a smoke screen to make abortions functionally impossible.

Because I can't in good conscience tell an average Republican that they need to suck it up and accept things like ACA or Medicare for all or clean energy targets if I'm not willing to accept the policies that don't line up with my personal views.

---

We literally passed zero gun reform policy in 20 years despite at the very least hundreds if not thousands of mass shootings in that time period literally because the NRA pays politicians not to. This is not the time to devils advocate guns.

Like there are so many progressive positions that don't have as much support that we seem to be 100% behind.

Worries about global fucking warming poll lower than an assault weapons ban, should we stop campaigning on climate change?
---

TheRock1525 posted...

All evidence presented so far says it's not.

It's literally more popular than M4A.

Until you understand that the definition of "Assault Weapons" is extremely important to the response of the person you ask, I don't think this discussion is very useful.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Suppose a complete 100% firearms ban had 70% approval nationwide.

You wouldn't accept it if it were enacted?

In the hypothetical scenario where I thought a 100% weapons ban was possible and it actually had 70% support, I'd support it, sure.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Because it's a big deal to me that we should be accepting of policies that might not reflect our own positions if they have support.

Also no way, dude. Lots of atrocious things have had popular support throughout history, it doesn't make them automatically valid.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

We literally passed zero gun reform policy in 20 years despite at the very least hundreds if not thousands of mass shootings in that time period literally because the NRA pays politicians not to. This is not the time to devils advocate guns.

I'm not advocating for the devil, I'm advocating for "common sense" gun reform and not an overreach.
---

This argument just goes to show how deep the gun lobby sinks their money into attempting to shape public opinion.

TheRock1525 posted...

Like there are so many progressive positions that don't have as much support that we seem to be 100% behind.

Worries about global fucking warming poll lower than an assault weapons ban, should we stop campaigning on climate change?

Dude you're the one insisting the polling is the most important thing, not me.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I'm not advocating for the devil, I'm advocating for "common sense" gun reform and not an overreach.

You are advocating the opinion that goes against common sense and statistics.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Also no way, dude. Lots of atrocious things have had popular support throughout history, it doesn't make them automatically valid.

We're not talking about ethnic cleansing, we're talking about which tools if death are going to be legal to own.

---

This clip from July is somehow even more infuriating in retrospect:

https://twitter.com/joyce_karam/status/1152024268152004609?s=21
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I'm not advocating for the devil, I'm advocating for "common sense" gun reform and not an overreach.

Are you, though? Because I'm pretty sure "common sense" includes getting rid of assault rifles, which is what Beto is saying he wants to do, which is what you're against based on getting thrown into a paranoiac "HE'S TAKING ALL OUR GUNS" frenzy from one Facebook clip?
---

"Common sense" gun reform is a stupid concept and nobody should support it. It doesn't actually mean anything, but it sounds good while making it seem like everyone who disagrees with you is a complete idiot who should be ignored. There are plenty of specific gun reform ideas that are great, but the "common sense" thing just doesn't work.
---

HashtagSEP posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I'm not advocating for the devil, I'm advocating for "common sense" gun reform and not an overreach.

Are you, though? Because I'm pretty sure "common sense" includes getting rid of assault rifles, which is what Beto is saying he wants to do, which is what you're against based on getting thrown into a paranoiac "HE'S TAKING ALL OUR GUNS" frenzy from one Facebook clip?

What qualifies as an assault rifle? There are literally hundreds of guns that arent AR-15s that can do the exact same thing.

When half of our mass shootings dont involved AR-15s, I question how that will solve anything.

Wanna limit magazine sizes? Go for it!
Mandatory training? I welcome it.
Strict background checks and closing loopholes? Yes.
Cheap and easy access to quality mental healthcare? Duh.

It really doesnt make sense for you guys to not get this. Youre acting like Im sitting here saying there shouldnt gun laws.
---

Can you name a good reason for why things like AR-15s shouldn't be banned?

Also holy crap did you literally just almost repeat the "It's not the guns, it's all the sick people!" shit?
---

Like, don't get me wrong. I wasn't against the "They shouldn't take my handguns" bit, I was just arguing that's never something he actually said he was going to do.

But if your argument is literally "We shouldn't ban any guns, period," then I can't even remotely agree with that.
---

Absolutely insufferable, no wonder Cyclo doesnt come around anymore.

Youre right, better access to healthcare wont do a thing to prevent obviously very healthy people for murdering a bunch of people.

Unlike those right-wing fucks who redirect to that line, I actively want them to have access to help. How you cant see the difference makes discussing this almost too much to bear.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Absolutely insufferable, no wonder Cyclo doesnt come around anymore.

Youre right, better access to healthcare wont do a thing to prevent obviously very healthy people for murdering a bunch of people.

Unlike those right-wing fucks who redirect to that line, I actively want them to have access to help. How you cant see the difference makes discussing this almost too much to bear.

Nobody is saying that's not a good thing.

But that's WITH banning the type of guns that nobody actually needs to own for any good reason.

It's crazy to me that "Some guns should be banned" is your "absolutely insufferable" line being crossed

Literally what the fuck
---

HashtagSEP posted...

But if your argument is literally "We shouldn't ban any guns, period," then I can't even remotely agree with that

Thats not what I said.

My argument is, unless you go all the way to banning all semi-auto rifles, banning individual guns is pointless. Tell me how it isnt.

Im against banning all semi-auto rifles because theyre are more semi-auto rifles than people in our country, its literally impossible at this point. If it were possible, sure, go for it.

But living in Republican pro-gun area, I know everyone around me has shitloads of guns, and in the case of natural disaster or WHATEVER that makes me need to survive, Id rather have it than not.

Its that simple.
---

Like, you accused us of dodging your question earlier, so why did you dodge mine?

What is one good reason somebody needs to own an AR-15?
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

But if your argument is literally "We shouldn't ban any guns, period," then I can't even remotely agree with that

Thats not what I said.

My argument is, unless you go all the way to banning all semi-auto rifles, banning individual guns is pointless. Tell me how it isnt.

Im against banning all semi-auto rifles because theyre are more semi-auto rifles than people in our country, its literally impossible at this point. If it were possible, sure, go for it.

But living in Republican pro-gun area, I know everyone around me has shitloads of guns, and in the case of natural disaster or WHATEVER that makes me need to survive, Id rather have it than not.

Its that simple.

So you're against helping to prevent tragedies now because at some point something COULD happen where you'll want to be able to shoot people

Do you not see why this is crazy to us
---

HashtagSEP posted...

It's crazy to me that "Some guns should be banned" is your "absolutely insufferable" line being crossed

Literally what the f***

No no no, dude. The insufferable line was directly stating I was doing the disingenuous its the people, not the guns! line when I included it as a broad package of reform to reduce gun violenceand I actually support healthcare. Its an offensive comparison, as if Im deluded into repeating NRA talking point instead of saying what I believe.
---

Reg posted...

This is your friendly reminder to delete your facebook accounts

Did something in particular happen recently? Or just general good advice because FB hasn't been good in a long time?
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

It's crazy to me that "Some guns should be banned" is your "absolutely insufferable" line being crossed

Literally what the f***

No no no, dude. The insufferable line was directly stating I was doing the disingenuous its the people, not the guns! line when I included it as a broad package of reform to reduce gun violenceand I actually support healthcare. Its an offensive comparison, as if Im deluded into repeating NRA talking point instead of saying what I believe.

I mean you're against banning guns and your argument is basically becoming "Because then when the world ends, bad people will have guns and I won't"

That really sounds like a repeated NRA talking point, whether you realize it or not
---

HashtagSEP posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

But if your argument is literally "We shouldn't ban any guns, period," then I can't even remotely agree with that

Thats not what I said.

My argument is, unless you go all the way to banning all semi-auto rifles, banning individual guns is pointless. Tell me how it isnt.

Im against banning all semi-auto rifles because theyre are more semi-auto rifles than people in our country, its literally impossible at this point. If it were possible, sure, go for it.

But living in Republican pro-gun area, I know everyone around me has shitloads of guns, and in the case of natural disaster or WHATEVER that makes me need to survive, Id rather have it than not.

Its that simple.

So you're against helping to prevent tragedies now because at some point something COULD happen where you'll want to be able to shoot people

Do you not see why this is crazy to us

Where do you live, dude? Because I literally live in Matt Gaetz district, surrounded by open-carrying gun-toting MAGA chuds.

Sorry if I dont expect to be perfectly safe if god forbid something awful happens.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

But living in Republican pro-gun area, I know everyone around me has shitloads of guns, and in the case of natural disaster or WHATEVER that makes me need to survive, Id rather have it than not.

Paranoia, yes, no surprise here.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

But if your argument is literally "We shouldn't ban any guns, period," then I can't even remotely agree with that

Thats not what I said.

My argument is, unless you go all the way to banning all semi-auto rifles, banning individual guns is pointless. Tell me how it isnt.

Im against banning all semi-auto rifles because theyre are more semi-auto rifles than people in our country, its literally impossible at this point. If it were possible, sure, go for it.

But living in Republican pro-gun area, I know everyone around me has shitloads of guns, and in the case of natural disaster or WHATEVER that makes me need to survive, Id rather have it than not.

Its that simple.

So you're against helping to prevent tragedies now because at some point something COULD happen where you'll want to be able to shoot people

Do you not see why this is crazy to us

Where do you live, dude? Because I literally live in Matt Gaetz district, surrounded by open-carrying gun-toting MAGA chuds.

Sorry if I dont expect to be perfectly safe if god forbid something awful happens.

Well, atleast you're admitting that is indeed your stance.
---

HashtagSEP posted...

I mean you're against banning guns and your argument is basically becoming "Because then when the world ends, bad people will have guns and I won't"

That really sounds like a repeated NRA talking point, whether you realize it or not

LMFAO.

---

owning guns because you're afraid of the prevalent ownership of guns is a weird position to hate someone taking away guns from
---

In your opinions, what threat does climate change pose? It gets uncomfortably hot but society just continues on like normal?
---

Grimlyn posted...

owning guns because you're afraid of the prevalent ownership of guns is a weird position to hate someone taking away guns from

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Im against banning all semi-auto rifles because there are more semi-auto rifles than people in our country, its literally impossible at this point. If it were possible, sure, go for it.

---

You can't try to take some moral high road and call us insufferable when you literally just admitted your stance is "Fuck anyone else now, I gotta have mine."
---

HashtagSEP posted...

You can't try to take some moral high road and call us insufferable when you literally just admitted your stance is "Fuck anyone else now, I gotta have mine."

Youre not even reading my posts at this point. You are arguing against an NRA strawman, dude.
---

You are literally arguing we should be less safe now because doomsday scenario might happen later.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

You can't try to take some moral high road and call us insufferable when you literally just admitted your stance is "Fuck anyone else now, I gotta have mine."

Youre not even reading my posts at this point. You are arguing against an NRA strawman, dude.

You literally just said it

"So you're against helping prevent tragedies now because you might want a gun later in a doomsday scenario"
"I'm not safe where I live if it breaks down, man!"

You did not deny it. It's not a strawman when you aren't providing any reason other than "Bad people will still have guns in a doomsday scenario, so I want guns, too."
---

i mean if your issue is they can't do the policy... what is there to be afraid of or oppose the policy?

just letting things continue with more and more guns isn't addressing anything
---

Tony is a villain in a zombie apocalypse.

Leafeon13N posted...

You are literally arguing we should be less safe now because doomsday scenario might happen later.

Im literally not, but go off.

---

You literally are.

Look, we all know you are a conspiracy nut, you might as well just embrace it at this point.

HashtagSEP posted...

"So you're against helping prevent tragedies now because you might want a gun later in a doomsday scenario"
"I'm not safe where I live if it breaks down, man!"

I LITERALLY gave four solid things to help prevent tragedies.

The only line I established was no semi-auto weapons ban, because I dont think its possible AND I want to keep mine. Thats it.

The idea that I want to do nothing is absurd and a lie.

---

Leafeon13N posted...

Look, we all know you are a conspiracy nut, you might as well just embrace it at this point.

I live on the coast while everyone is saying were a decade from a climate change catastrophe.

Is this topic full of climate change deniers now? The fuck is going on?

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

The only line I established was no semi-auto weapons ban, because I dont think its possible AND I want to keep mine. Thats it.

So you concede that there's no good reason to have an AR-15 other than in this proposed doomsday scenario?
---

Tony you are exactly the type of person i wouldn't want with a gun in a doomsday scenario.

Leafeon13N posted...

Tony you are exactly the type of person i wouldn't want with a gun in a doomsday scenario.

...What the fuck?

---

Also, if it's literally just for self defense in a doomsday scenario, wouldn't a handgun be better, unless you're imagining some "wave o' zombies" rush coming at you?
---