Board 8 > Watchmen series (no spoilers in OP)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Some nice references to the book, very compelling. Also as I was watching I kept thinking "man, this music sounds like NIN" and when I looked it up sure enough it's Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross.
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So its after the squid, based on the movie or the comic or what? I have no idea what its about.

The squid is from the comic. In the movie they have a tachyon/nuclear event that Dr Manhattan is framed for, but in the comics Veidt/Ozymandias fakes an invasion from another dimension by using a super huge squid. So the squid rainstorm is related to that.
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PerfectChaosZ posted...

So its after the squid, based on the movie or the comic or what? I have no idea what its about.

Its a sequel to the comic set in 2019.
There was a night at some point where a terrorist group murdered cops in their homes which led to police all wearing masks. Theres a bunch more to it than that, but the main conflict set up so far is between the police and a white supremecist group who idolize Rorschach.

its mostly focused on new characters, but most of the surviving characters from the comic are going to have some role in the story too
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Dr Manhatten was very obvious and I noticed Veidt, didn't notice Laurie but I could have easily missed it.

I am very unsure of what the maid was doing with Veidt...
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Laurie wasnt in the first episode, but she was in trailers. Shes an FBI agent now.
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Makes sense, sort of. If you go back to the source I really don't understand how she goes FBI. That needs a serious explanation.
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Watching new ep right now.
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A lot of setup in this episode but I kinda dug what was going on in the back half of it.

Still don't really know how to feel about this show yet. Feels like there's potential but...it really could go either way.

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The old man's identity was no surprise, but I do want to know where the Captain's "secret in the closet" is going. I actually thought maybe it's the wife's secret, especially given her lack of an emotional response, but then again it could be how he survived the white night.

While thinking about it... could the reason she survived be because he was the second gunman and he just couldn't pull the trigger?
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...
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ChichiriMuyo posted...

While thinking about it... could the reason she survived be because he was the second gunman and he just couldn't pull the trigger?

This was also my immediate thought when seeing how the transition was shot, but maybe that was just foreshadowing for the end of the episode. I think it points to the white night being a part of a bigger conspiracy though.

Also thought it was kinda weird how Angela's husband seemed to not get targeted but maybe I missed the explanation for him.

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Well, it did seem like they were targeting just the officers and leaving the widows.
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ChichiriMuyo posted...

Well, it did seem like they were targeting just the officers and leaving the widows.

Didn't they kill Angela's partner and his wife? That's the reason she adopted the kids. I think there are 3 "twists" that the show is presenting to us that come off as a little too obvious so I'm expecting a swerve on at least one of these

Will is Hooded Justice
Lord of the Manor is Ozymandias
Judd is 7th Cavalry

The 2nd one maybe isn't even a twist but why all of the secrecy toward his character?
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my responses to those three things:

1. I didnt get this impression at all and Im not sure the show is trying to suggest it since Hooded Justice was definitely implied to be a white guy.
They never actually confirm his identity as the German dude, but I feel like even if the Minutemen never see the guy out of a costume they probably wouldnt misidentify a black American as a German just based on the voice? I guess its possible they could go that direction, but it would feel a little weird to me.
Also theres exactly one panel in the comics that shows some white looking skin through his masks eyeholes, but they could just ignore that and only some real weird nerds would be mad.

2. Almost for sure yes, I think the swerve there may come when they reveal exactly where and / or when his scenes are taking place. Like he might be on Mars or his scenes may be taking place before the shows present and he really did die like the newspaper said. Im really curious to see where thats going.

3. my theory as of now is that maybe he was behind the attacks of that night but not actually a legit Cavalry member... like it was a false flag to allow the rise of weird costumed fascist cops or something. I feel like they made him too likeable at first to later reveal that he is a straight up white supremacist.
Obviously being the guy who orchestrated a bunch of people being murdered would also be bad, but at least then they can give him a more interesting motivation than 100% racist guy. Im not sure, but my instinct is there has to be a little more to it than just being a Cavalry member.
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1) People have been throwing out the theory that Hooded Justice is Will, but he was replaced by a white guy when they formed a superhero group, to showcase how white america steals black culture and markets it as their own. There was also material found that says
From reddit: "
"The opening scene of episode 1 is Will is watching a silent movie where the main character(Bass Reeves) is chasing down a white criminal and putting him to justice. Bass Reeves in real life was a black US Marshall who acted as the inspiration for the Lone Ranger a white hero. Whereas Bass Reeves was a black hero, who was turned white to appease larger audiences, it's only poetic that Hooded Justice an originally black hero, is unknowingly turned into a white hero in the American Hero Story tv show within the movie." There is also this bit of info from the Watchmen wiki:

"The author's notes reveal that this costume was originally designed for a Minuteman called Brother Night who claimed to have occult powers.", this would obviously tie into Sister Night.

don't really have anything to add to the other points.

oh huh, that makes it make more sense now. I could definitely believe that explanation.
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I was about to take issue with that first theory because it would miss the point almost entirely (there is plenty of lore in the comics that suggest Hooded Justice is a racist Nazi sympathizer and also...look at him) but that additional take makes it actually interesting.

If anyone didn't know, HBO is publishing supplemental material on their site after each episode, similarly to what the comic did at the end of each issue. Pretty cool stuff.

https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia

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Interesting tidbit from the Ep. 2 material:

Judd has connections to Senator Keene. This Keene is the son of the senator in Watchmen who made the law that criminalized vigilantism. Keene is mentioned in the show as running for president at the newsstand scene. The excerpt mentions Keene was also responsible for the "Defense of Police Act" amendment to the Keene Act, which is what gave police the ability to mask and be more confidential after the White Night. Definitely points to Judd setting up this conspiracy so that police have more power. Also says Keene is coming to Tulsa.

And this doesn't affect anything but apparently Judd served under Robert S. Mueller in Vietnam. Like, "Mueller Report" Mueller. Ha.

Also OJ's lawyer did the court case that resulted in reparations for descendants/survivors of the Tulsa massacre, lol

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Yeah as far as the first spoiler I also don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that a person who has been carrying German propaganda around his entire life would be a Nazi sympathizer. I know it was from WW1 but it probably looked pretty good after those race riots! I'm sure they could go into more depth and make it all work.

Show has been fantastic so far through the first 2 episodes though
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skullbone posted...

Yeah as far as the first spoiler I also don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that a person who has been carrying German propaganda around his entire life would be a Nazi sympathizer. I know it was from WW1 but it probably looked pretty good after those race riots! I'm sure they could go into more depth and make it all work.

Show has been fantastic so far through the first 2 episodes though

Well that would be pretty bizarre and tone-deaf considering this is real history we're talking about! That's a real piece of German propaganda so to have it just actually work would be sorta reductionist in a show that at least so far has shown a lot of nuance.

My other concern from a canon perspective is that Hooded Justice was gay, and in a committed relationship with Captain Metropolis. Who, by the way, was also a racist. So not only is this a logistical issue for the timeline with Will having descendants, but it would just be problematic to insert him as the Minuteman HJ.

IMO it has to be what Nrrr said or this is all a distraction. There isn't a good way to make it work otherwise without shitting on actual history or the source material, and so far the show is pretty painstakingly adhering to both. I'm really skeptical they could pull that off in a satisfying way.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Well that would be pretty bizarre and tone-deaf considering this is real history we're talking about!

I mean you have a young boy who watched his family get murdered by white people and he's carrying around a piece of paper that promises a better life in Germany. He can already read the paper so there are at least 20 years before WW2 starts. I think you could certainly justify why he was a Nazi sympathizer but it doesn't mean we have to agree with him.
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this episode was pretty dang good
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Pretty sure that they have now confirmed Ozymanias' location. The fact that he thinks he can outsmart Dr Manhattan in this scenario is crazy, though he might be after all this time.
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oh boy, the Ozymandias action in this episode is next level crazy

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

oh boy, the Ozymandias action in this episode is next level crazy

Yeah. At first I thought I didn't see what I saw but then as the scene went on I realized I did see what I thought I saw and I quickly realized why. Hard to tell who is more messed up between him and Manhattan.

Also, has he lost his mind to the point he can't remember how long he's been there? Isn't it supposed to be longer?
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its probably as long as he says it is, but his scenes may still not be happening at the same time as the present of the show

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That's potentially a good point, but I keep getting the feeling he's become as detached as Dr. Manhattan and that may have been the goal in the first place. Like, maybe, he wants Ozzy to see the world the way he does because he had the audacity to act like he was as godlike as Manhattan.
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Also, since Veidt has only been there a few years (but more than he seems to realize) and not since the initial act (which Dr Manhattan must have been willing to protect given the fact that he killed Rorschach) does this indicate the Ozzy might have later done something even worse?
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Wow so... I don't think they will kill Looking Glass. I think he is set up to join them. Then again I previously suspected him and clearly he was not. But seriously, after what he learned they don't need to go in hard like that, right?
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Hopefully Lube Man shows up and they glide to safety together. The revelation that Judd and Keene were working together to maintain the power balance between police and 7K means that Will probably really did kill Judd? Interested to see how the stories start to overlap now.
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I don't think so. He could have been part of it, but I doubt he planned it let alone executed it.
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