Board 8 > Death Stranding Review Zone

(+) Yeah! (+)

Going by rigid numerical score is kinda dumb, but if reviewers are saying the game isn't fun and still giving it high marks, that's still an implicit recommendation that it's worth playing!

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

ok but what did they say about it?

yes quinton, please tell us what dewgamer and the catholic dorito times, two outlets that are absolutely real, said about death stranding
---

How do you quantify fun?
---

Hey it's ya boy dewgamer here, 'bout to play the new hype game Death Stranding but before I do, remember to hit that like button and SLAM that subscribe button to become part of the dew crew
---

Silent Hill 2 is not fun to play and it's one of the best games ever

Just say it's 'engaging' instead and it should make more sense to people

---

Fun is subjective, but this game isnt fun to play is probably the worst criticism a game can get short of literally being an unplayable broken mess

I like how the high reviews seem to all be like "This game is such a unique production of a love letter to the antithesis of blah blah blah" in their summaries

And then most of the reviews that actually mention gameplay are like "This fucking sucks."
---

swordz9 posted...

Fun is subjective, but this game isnt fun to play is probably the worst criticism a game can get short of literally being an unplayable broken mess

I would say this about Deadly Premonition, Nier and Spec Ops: The Line, but all three are top 25 games for me.
---

JackMan posted...

swordz9 posted...

Fun is subjective, but this game isnt fun to play is probably the worst criticism a game can get short of literally being an unplayable broken mess

I would say this about Deadly Premonition, Nier and Spec Ops: The Line, but all three are top 25 games for me.

Would you call them top 25 games or top 25 experiences, though? I think it's worth exploring a potential divide, there.

Like, my playthrough of Spec Ops: The Line is definitely up there as far as being one of my favorites. But I have literally no desire to ever play the game again for any reason, so I have a very hard time saying it's one of my top games.
---

I value the experience a game gives me more than anything else. If a game isn't 'fun' but it gave me a journey I'll never forget, it's probably going to be one of my favorite games. I don't separate games from experiences. Examples of this include:

Silent Hill 2
Nier 1 (it's gameplay is underrated though)
Deadly Premonition

---

Yeah, I don't think of Nier as a game with bad gameplay.
---

Experience vs Game is interesting. I mean this list ranks Gone Home and Journey super high. Neither is fun to play, but I guess the list maker values the experience enough to rank them highly. Id want to hesitate even considering either a video game because theyre so nothing gameplay and fun wise and theres not really a reason to want to replay those kind of things

swordz9 posted...

Fun is subjective, but this game isnt fun to play is probably the worst criticism a game can get short of literally being an unplayable broken mess

It's not really that cut and dry. Some games demand a lot from the player and make it work. Other games have bad moment-to-moment gameplay but are remarkable in other ways.
---

I can't think of any game I'd say "this wasn't fun but I valued the experience."

There are games I like with lackluster gameplay but good story/characters/atmosphere that make up for it. But even there, I'm saying the parts I enjoyed outweigh the parts I didn't enjoy.
---

Oh Journey was very fun for me to play and I ended up replaying it, getting a great experience both times. Actually I got a better experience on the replay even!
---

swordz9 posted...

Experience vs Game is interesting. I mean this list ranks Gone Home and Journey super high. Neither is fun to play, but I guess the list maker values the experience enough to rank them highly. Id want to hesitate even considering either a video game because theyre so nothing gameplay and fun wise and theres not really a reason to want to replay those kind of things

What list??

And who doesn't like playing Journey??

And Gone Home uses the medium to tell its story better than most games out there. Gone Home works because it's a video game.
---

......For a minute I thought I was in the Decade topic oops. Anyways I thought Journey was pretty to look at, but thats about it. Gameplay wise I dont think it couldve possibly been more boring unless somebody found a way to sell a 1-2 hour pause screen as a game

HashtagSEP posted...

Would you call them top 25 games or top 25 experiences, though? I think it's worth exploring a potential divide, there.

This isn't personally how I classify it. Games are a medium, the medium is defined in basic terms by some degree of interaction, and there is a wide spectrum of stuff you can do with that. Sometimes I'm in the mood for something more gameplay-heavy and other times I'm not but regardless of the type of game, if I'm judging it I'm taking in the entire experience as a whole.

I also don't tend to value replayability very highly!

---

swordz9 posted...

......For a minute I thought I was in the Decade topic oops. Anyways I thought Journey was pretty to look at, but thats about it. Gameplay wise I dont think it couldve possibly been more boring unless somebody found a way to sell a 1-2 hour pause screen as a game

my man swordz here coming out hard against slides.
---

It's actually rare that I enjoy a game strictly for gameplay these days. It's got to offer other things (music, story, ect.) or it won't stick with me after the playthrough is over.

---

It's rare I enjoy a game strictly for gameplay, but if I don't like the gameplay, I just have a really hard time calling something one of my top games no matter how much I liked the rest. Using Spec Ops as an example, I absolutely loved everything about it BUT the gameplay, which was pretty horrible. It's one of the most memorable games I've ever played. But I have no desire to ever play it again, and if I could go back, I'd just watch it on Youtube and get the same value, so I just can't call it one of my favorite games.
---

I still care more about characters and story than gameplay itself, but I like the gameplay to at least be somewhat fun or engaging. For the walking simulators Ive played Ive found them lacking in everything other than looking pretty. The genre itself just probably isnt for me unless there are any that are like as excellent as the gameplay-less parts of The Last of Us or God of War where its fun and interesting with just the characters walking and talking to each other.

Don't buy into the game vs experience divide at all.

The House in Fata Morgana is my favorite video game ever and it doesn't even have gameplay....or video!

iiicon posted...

yes quinton, please tell us what dewgamer and the catholic dorito times, two outlets that are absolutely real, said about death stranding

I assumed they were clever nicknames for existing outlets, like whatever the successor to GameTrailers is.

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I assumed they were clever nicknames for existing outlets, like whatever the successor to GameTrailers is.

I'm like 99% sure it's a Resetera reference.
---

you are 100% correct

Well what happened was that Era posted about how someone, somewhere, I dunno where, made up an image with fake gaming sites about Doritos, Mountain Dew, etc (all Geoff Keighley memes)

...and Kojima liked and retweeted it

---

i would trust ferret gaming with my life
---

I would take a bullet for ferret gaming

---

HashtagSEP posted...

Would you call them top 25 games or top 25 experiences, though? I think it's worth exploring a potential divide, there.

Like, my playthrough of Spec Ops: The Line is definitely up there as far as being one of my favorites. But I have literally no desire to ever play the game again for any reason, so I have a very hard time saying it's one of my top games.

Hrm, I'd argue a game is a type of experience, so I wouldn't separate them. There are plenty of movies I love that I'd never watch again, like 10 Cloverfield Lane, and plenty that I like to rewatch every so often, like Die Hard. I wouldn't separate them into separate lists if I was ranking my favourite movies, so I wouldn't with games.

And, in fairness, of the three games I listed, Nier's gameplay was the best, just a bit bland. Though, I did like the top-down bullet hell sections.
---

I don't understand how anyone can say Nier's gameplay was bad. What other game is an action-RPG but also bullet-hell and occasional text adventure? Shit was fire.

---

SEP makes a good point. If you like a game's story and hate the gameplay, wouldn't you be better off just watching it on Youtube?

swordz9 posted...

Experience vs Game is interesting. I mean this list ranks Gone Home and Journey super high. Neither is fun to play, but I guess the list maker values the experience enough to rank them highly. Id want to hesitate even considering either a video game because theyre so nothing gameplay and fun wise and theres not really a reason to want to replay those kind of things

My first thought when playing Journey was being shocked by how fun the gameplay was. It's a super fun game!

Much more fun than, say, The Last of Us, which you also mentioned in this topic and has godawful gameplay (somehow worse than any of the Uncharted games which didn't have good gameplay to start with!).

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I don't understand how anyone can say Nier's gameplay was bad. What other game is an action-RPG but also bullet-hell and occasional text adventure? Shit was fire.

People usually complain about the combat, not the gameplay. The text adventure parts and bullet-hell parts can be more fun than the regular combat!
---

Mac Arrowny posted...

(somehow worse than any of the Uncharted games which didn't have good gameplay to start with!).

here's a hot take

but TLOU doesn't have parkour so of course it's not going to be as fun to play
---

UC2, 4 and Lost Legacy are all excellent on the gameplay front.

1, 3 and TLOU are all solidly in "eh" territory.
---

Mac Arrowny posted...

SEP makes a good point. If you like a game's story and hate the gameplay, wouldn't you be better off just watching it on Youtube?

Sure but you aren't experiencing it the same way. Not saying it's an invalid way to experience a game, but losing the interaction makes it different. As much as it's used as a buzzword, I do think some degree of immersion is important. But if you HATE the gameplay and can't stand to interact with the game, then yeah, you probably aren't being immersed.

Playing Journey vs watching someone else play Journey seem like notably different experiences to me.

---

Xiahou Shake posted...

UC2, 4 and Lost Legacy are all excellent on the gameplay front.

1, 3 and TLOU are all solidly in "eh" territory.

The cruise ship in UC3 is a top tier setpiece for the series
---

Well sure, but again, Journey has great gameplay.

For one of the ones mentioned in this topic, I would've enjoyed watching someone else play Spec Ops a lot more than I enjoyed playing through it myself. Really despised the combat in that one.
---

LeonhartFour posted...

The cruise ship in UC3 is a top tier setpiece for the series

It's an incredible set piece yes, but it's also emblematic of UC3's big issue of leaning too hard into its set pieces and cinematic flare rather than actually doing anything interesting with its gameplay. UC2 and I'd argue especially 4 manage to have many areas that are cool and memorable that you can actually engage with in meaningful and creative ways rather than just playing out a heavily scripted sequence.
---

Mac Arrowny posted...

Well sure, but again, Journey has great gameplay.

For one of the ones mentioned in this topic, I would've enjoyed watching someone else play Spec Ops a lot more than I enjoyed playing through it myself. Really despised the combat in that one.

I wouldn't describe Journey's gameplay as conventionally "good" but that's just me personally. I hate to be the guy that drags this to "it's all subjective!" territory but I really think this is the crux of the matter with Death Stranding. Everyone is gonna have a different threshold of what they want to put up with from a game before watching it on youtube or whatever. Reviewers aren't just evaluating the game differently, they're coming in with totally different expectations they're evaluating by. So you get reviews that are like "bad gameplay 10/10" and reviews thinking that's a horrible way to review a game and everything in between.

---

For whatever it might be worth I was so late to play Journey I literally didnt see a single other person my entire run....

https://www.giantbomb.com/reviews/death-stranding-review/1900-795/

Oof
---

What's 'oof' about it

It's a negative review. All games get negative reviews. There are significantly more positive ones than negative ones

I don't really get the discourse surrounding this game. I've never seen one be so pre-judged before its actual release (without some weird developer drama behind it). People have drawn lines in the sand and seem to have already decided whether or not they'll like the game even though most of them barely know anything about it. It's a video game. Play it when it comes out and judge it then. Or don't, I guess

---

Xiahou Shake posted...

https://www.giantbomb.com/reviews/death-stranding-review/1900-795/

Oof

https://digitalchumps.com/death-stranding/

Yeowch
---

KamikazePotato posted...

I've never seen one be so pre-judged before its actual release

You must not pay attention to any big game release ever then
---

StealThisSheen posted...

You must not pay attention to any big game release ever then

Outside of maybe Anthem or Mass Effect Andromeda, I can't remember anything in recent history that's come close to the reaction Death Stranding is eliciting.

---

ninkendo posted...

https://digitalchumps.com/death-stranding/

Yeowch

"There is so much to think about, but at the same time you will be getting simplistic gameplay design to use with all of that complication. Its brilliant, its gorgeous. All the intricate details that were put into the gameplay and executed perfectly creates a beautiful payoff. This is like watching a superb conductor at work with a well-trained orchestra."

yeah ok

---

I mean everyone pre-judges a game before its release when you determine whether you want to buy it or not

Death Stranding certainly occupies a unique area among video games though
---

KamikazePotato posted...

I don't really get the discourse surrounding this game. I've never seen one be so pre-judged before its actual release (without some weird developer drama behind it).

this is extremely tame by AAA standards! high profile reviewers were getting death threats for very high, but not perfect, scores for GTA5, Uncharted 3, Red Dead Redemption 2.
---

And one of those 3 isn't even a decent game!

Bros I'm still upset I accidentally did shipping instead of in store pick up for my collectors edition that's the true dilemma here

I suppose the bright side is I can spend the next 2 nights finishing the final chapter of cold steel 3
---

I don't think any of them are good, but that's beside the point!

(well, I've only played like an hour of RDR2, so I don't really have an opinion beyond "c'mon you're the biggest developer in the world, just fucking pay Native Americans to play Native American roles, it's literally the least you could do.")
---