Board 8 > Top 35 Stories in Fiction

(+) Yeah! (+)

the first three episodes of bb are as good as any stretch in the show's run. s2 is special for introducing saul. but yeah it's shocking to compare the quality of writing on BB to another above-average show.
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The House in Fata Morgana
Visual Novel

"You awaken in a decrepit old mansion.

A woman with eyes of jade stands before You, informing You that You are the Master of the house, and she Your Maid. However, You have no memories, no concept of self - or indeed, any certainty that You are even alive."

This might be my shortest writeup, simply because I want to spoil absolutely nothing about this. Quick abstract: you are in a mansion. You learn about tragedies that happened in the past. Things happen.

Fata Morgana has flaws - biggest one being that it is occasionally too wordy. Not often, though, and it's a small complain compared to how excellent the rest of the writing is. This might be the most emotional experience in fiction I've ever head - it's right up there with Schindler's List. The music, art, characters, story, writing...all top tier. Play this game. Read this story. It's unlike nothing I've ever seen.

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#1 favorite experience I have ever had in fiction. Never have I felt so fulfilled after a piece of media. The only negative is the sense of despair when you realize....its over. It's over and you don't have more of it.

There we go!! Finally.
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GANON1025 posted...

There we go!! Finally.

Well...what else could the Visual Novel have been after I ruled out Umineko? Hatoful Boyfriend?

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Maybe you're a big hide and seek fan and therefore love Ever17.
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Yeah...I definitely didn't forget Ever17 until you just mentioned it.

(Put it in Honorable Mentions. Amazing highs but pacing is not so good.)

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i'm weird in that i was a huge fan of the first season of breaking bad mostly for the comedy, then became less and less interested as it became less funny - never did get around to season 5.

incidentally, i watched both seasons of barry recently, which is amazing and a bit like if breaking bad escalated more in the direction i would have wanted instead.
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KamikazePotato posted...

GANON1025 posted...

There we go!! Finally.

Well...what else could the Visual Novel have been after I ruled out Umineko? Hatoful Boyfriend?

Steins;Gate
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Oh, House in Fata Morgana is on Steam...
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PumpkinCoach posted...

i'm weird in that i was a huge fan of the first season of breaking bad mostly for the comedy, then became less and less interested as it became less funny - never did get around to season 5.

incidentally, i watched both seasons of barry recently, which is amazing and a bit like if breaking bad escalated more in the direction i would have wanted instead.

season 2 was less good to me precisely because it wasn't as funny! that said, i still loved the later seasons.
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KamikazePotato posted...

GANON1025 posted...

There we go!! Finally.

Well...what else could the Visual Novel have been after I ruled out Umineko? Hatoful Boyfriend?

Saya no Uta baby!

(I assume you never played Muv-Luv Alternative?)
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god breaking bad is so fucking good. its one of those rare shows that only gets better every time you watch it
crazy better call saul is actually even better
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Never played Muv-Luv. Did play Saya no Uta. It was certainly a thing.

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i should probably read the house in fata morgana. i like beautiful emotional stuff. the whole gothic vibe thing made me think it wasn't for me, but, i suppose i shouldn't judge a book by it's cover.

Aw yeah go my Fata Morgana. Think I prefer Higurashi as far as VN's go but it's definitely up there with my favorites.

Breaking Bad also pretty good, though I don't think I like it quite as much as most. Also I thought season 5 was one of the weaker ones...much prefer seasons 3 and 4 personally.
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Oh yeah Higurashi's a good one to play if you want something like Umineko that doesn't get worse in the second half (the second half is actually a big improvement here!).
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Monster
Manga Series

"Doctor Tenma, for you, all lives are created equal. But you've finally come to realize it now, haven't you? Only one thing is equal for all, and that is death."

Another manga by Naoki Urasawa. Have I mentioned before that he's a genius?

Monster follows Dr. Kenzo Tenma, whose life is flip-turned upside-down when he performs lifesaving surgery on a child who was next in line for surgery, instead of pre-empting the child in favor of a wealthy and politically important figure who also needed it. The figure dies, and then...well, go read it. Monster's initial hook is one of the strongest I've ever read, and I don't want to ruin it for those who are unspoiled.

It brings with it the same qualities that make Urasawa's other works special: expressive character art, deliberate-but-perfect pacing, and excellently-written characters that feel like real people. There's a distinct 'feel' you get from reading one of his manga that nothing else manages to capture. The smallest actions/words feel important. Violence is used sparingly, and thus feels far more dramatic when it happens. While the concept of the story is 'unrealistic' in the sense that it would be exceedingly unlikely to see outside of fiction, everything still feels grounded. The characters are put through an emotional wringer and it's extremely easy to get invested in them. And perhaps most impressively of all is the consistency; Monster has no low points. How many times making this list have I gone "this work is great, except for..."? I have no flaws to point out this time.

Monster is simultaneously fascinating and engrossing. There's a lot of themes it tackles, but if I had to summarize, I think about it as a story about the nature of cruelty and kindness. Kindness is the way the world *should* be, and cruelty is a disease that can spread at an alarming rate. Cruelty inflicted on a single person is cruelty inflicted on ten others. An excess of cruelty can even create a monster...and just what defines a monster, anyway? Truly an excellent story that I can recommend to literally anyone.

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Mac Arrowny posted...

Oh yeah Higurashi's a good one to play if you want something like Umineko that doesn't get worse in the second half (the second half is actually a big improvement here!).

Will keep that in mind.

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Also for people who like worm *and* can handle unfinished works, Worth the Candle isn't by the same writer but ALSO very good and hits a lot of similar notes of being very long and detailed with its world building.

It's unfinished but going at a decent clip and there are lots of arcs that are already resolved.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/11478249/chapters/25740126

Will post the writeup for the overall #1 tomorrow - was a bit busy today.

MasaomiHouzuki posted...

Also for people who like worm

Go on...

MasaomiHouzuki posted...

*and* can handle unfinished works

Damnit

Well, can't be any worse than waiting on some of the other stuff I am.

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Monster is so good

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I need to reread Monster now. It's such a masterpiece. Though I like the sci-fi trappings of Pluto more.
But that's another of Urasawa's strengths, the way he portrays the world or locale his works are set in is just fantastic.
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I've never finished Monster. I've tried to read it three times. After the first 3 or 4 volumes, the pacing slows down, I get bored and drop it. I know it's good, but for some reason it doesn't hook me.

This is different from 20CB where I was hooked from start to end. I guess the crazier story with more charismatic characters did it for me.

i only ever watched the monster anime but the artwork was unappealing and it felt far too melodramatic in its direction. good concept though and maybe it is better in its original format.
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I haven't seen the Monster anime but just based on the episode count vs manga chapter count it seems like it would be slower-paced than the manga.

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i watched the anime back when it was a big deal on board 8 (thanks mumei), but didn't finish it because i got busy irl and then it had been too-long-to-jump-back-in/too-soon-to-restart, and then the same thing happened again on my second attempt

i consider it a masterpiece and the only reason i haven't finished it is because it's so good i'm waiting for the "right" time to watch it

Dels posted...

i consider it a masterpiece and the only reason i haven't finished it is because it's so good i'm waiting for the "right" time to watch it

Glad I'm not the only one who does this sort of thing. Sometimes I'll feel bad for consuming trash/generic media instead of starting or finishing something I know is substantial, but like to wait until the 'right time' to start the latter so I don't 'waste' it and sometimes that can take a while.

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I read the manga of Monster and still thought the pacing was ungodly slow there too

Otherwise not bad

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Ive only seen the anime, but my understanding is that its a faithful adaptation

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#1. The Wheel of Time
Book Series

"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, a wind rose in the Mountains of Mist. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning."

So: some context. I consumes a LOT of fantasy stories when I was a teen. It was and still is my favorite genre in fiction. There's just something about swords and sorcery that's always managed to captivate me. I've sat through dreck with a smile on my face because it was fantasy dreck. I have standards, but I know my biases.

There's a lot of great kinds of fantasy stories out there. Berserk is dark fantasy. A Song of Ice and Fire is medieval political fantasy. Star Wars is fantasy cosplaying as sci-fi. Dragon Quest V is simple-but-effective fantasy. If you had to pick one single piece of work that represented the fantasy genre as a whole, most would pick The Lord of The Rings, and for good reason (in retrospect, LOTR should have been on the list, I just forgot it). But for me, when I think of fantasy - not any specific type of fantasy, I mean fantasy, something that defines my favorite genre for me - I will always think of The Wheel of Time before anything else.

It's hard to recommend WOT to people who aren't big fans of devouring long fantasy books. The series has issues and its most ardent fans won't hesitate to describe exactly what they are. WOT suffers heavily from 'fantasy writer got popular' syndrome, where the scope of the story continues to expand around the same time that the author gains editor immunity. WOT is an incredibly long series and the middle 1/3 of it just...isn't that great. It never becomes bad but the pacing crawls to a halt. Additionally, while the author creates a lot of strong independent women characters, he struggles at making the most important ones outright likable, even if their attitudes make sense in-universe. I ended up liking almost all of them by the end of the series regardless, but yeah it's an uphill battle for a while. And to be as vague regarding spoilers as I can, the series struggles with killing off important characters.

So why, despite all that I've said, is The Wheel of Time #1 on this list? Why am I already feeling the urge to reread a 14-book long fantasy series that I just admitted has poor pacing? Because Wheel of Time is awesome, that's why. It's so unabashedly fantasy in everything it does. People speak like they're straight out of a fairy tale and the prose is dramatic, earnest, and engrossing all at the same time. Prophecies are revealed and mulled over ever five minutes. Destiny is a semi-tangible, real thing that has to be accounted for when making decisions. Magic is super strong but comes with a price, and overuse leads to insanity. People name their sword techniques! And yet, despite all that bullshit that might as well be from an anime at times, it truly works. The worldbuilding of Wheel of Time is honestly phenomenal - aside from having highly nuanced characters, cultures, and locations, the series also strikes an extremely delicate balance where just enough is defined to make sense and be logical, while still leaving enough wiggle room for fantasy bullshit to happen, while STILL making that fantasy bullshit never break the willing suspension of disbelief. I feel like I 'get' the universe of Wheel of Time better than I do any other I've ever experienced. 'Semi-Realistic Legend/Fable' is the tone it goes for, and it nails that perfectly.

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It's the world that makes reading Wheel of Time so engrossing, but I also do love the characters, even the ones I complained about earlier. The overarching story is simple (the main villain is literally named The Dark One), and so the intrigue mostly stems from the pressure that being the most influential people of an apocalyptic era puts on the main characters. There's far too many characters to talk about it one writeup, so I'll focus on two: main character Rand and best character Mat. Rand deals with the pressure by diving headfirst into his role while Mat runs away from it as much as possible, and both of them fail and succeed in ways that make for a highly entertaining contrast. Every scene with Mat is amazing and Rand's internal mental degradation over a long period of time is like watching a car crash in slow motion. If the series was just about these two, it would already be a great series. But you've also got Lan, Moiraine, Nynaeve, Min, Aviendha, Thom...I could go on. I'll remember some of those characters forever.

When it comes down to it, though, the most important thing will always be the emotional connection I have with a work. And while other works like Fata Morgana and Schindler's List have perhaps surpassed it in terms of eliciting a strong, intense emotional response, Wheel of Time is too near and dear to my heart to ever be overtaken. Let me set the stage: back in the late 2000s, we learned that Wheel of Time would be ending soon, and that the author Robert Jordan was having health problems but intended to finish the series before his condition got too severe. Hearts went out to him, but people weren't too worried about the series itself going unfinished. Robert Jordan's pace of writing has never slowed, and his passion for the series had never waned. It was unthinkable to imagine that when we finally crossed the finish line, Robert Jordan wouldn't be there waiting for us with a smile on his face and a twinkle in his eye.

He wasn't.

I was gutted when I learned that Robert Jordan had passed. I don't know if I realized how much I had invested myself in the world until that moment. Even worse then the story going unfinished was the notion that Robert Jordan wouldn't get to finish it, because everything I'd read about him painted him as an upstanding guy who loved to write and loved his fans. It didn't feel fair. Then, out of nowhere, his wife picked a replacement writer named Brandon Sanderson (a huge fan of the series and a very good fantasy writer, definitely recommend his original work) to help finish the saga, and somehow it turned out better than anyone could have expected. Robert Jordan had left a ton of notes and had pre-finished the biggest scenes once he realized he wasn't going to make it. Sanderson took all that and synthesized it with his own writing style while still staying true to the original style of the series, and the outcome is basically a miracle. The last three books are up there with the best of them all.

The gravity of what this all meant to me didn't 100% come to a head until I sat down with the final book in my hand, a book that by all rights shouldn't even exist. It felt like we, the fans, had made it, and that Robert Jordan had made it there with us too. I spent an entire day and night reading the book, and it blew me away completely on its own merits, then blew me away again because of what it represented to me. A Memory of Light is my favorite book and always will be. It completed a part of me that had been there since childhood. I got to see the end of the journey, and it was everything I'd hoped it would be.

That may sound dramatic - but as far as I'm concerned, the fantasy series deserves nothing less than the most dramatic writeup I've ever written. And oh look, they're making a high-budget TV series now! The new turn of the Wheel, and a new beginning. As it should be.

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Apologies for any typos - I spent an hour writing that and it's getting late.

FINAL LIST:

TIER 1
Wheel of Time
A Song of Ice and Fire
Schindler's List
Berserk
Worm
Breaking Bad
The House in Fata Morgana
Monster

TIER 2
Metal Gear Solid 2
Rakuin no Monshou
Cycle
Watchmen
Nier Automata
1984
Planescape: Torment

TIER 3
Nier
Chrysalis
Transmetropolitan
Avatar: The Last Airbender
Pluto
Ender's Game / Speaker of the Dead
Dragon Quest V
American Psycho
Locke and Key
Deadly Premonition
Catch-22
The Truman Show
Silent Hill 2

TIER 4
Harry Potter
Bastard
Black Lagoon
Re:Zero
Undertale
Paranoia Agent
Tales of Berseria
(Final Fantasy X)

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Thanks a lot to everyone who read through this topic and enjoyed my self-important ramblings.

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NOW THERE IS NO END

THE WHEEL WILL TURN AGAIN

wheel of time is probably my #1 as well. despite itself it's so good even when it isn't it's still good except crossroads of twilight you can go die. it's so cliched and overwritten and stupid WHY IS IT SO GOOD

fuck

im going to go read rhuidean's rings parts 1 and 2 again
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Yeah like, I can absolutey 100% see why someone would not be a fan of Wheel of Time but I love it so much

I actually liked Crossroad of Twilight way more than pretty much anyone else, simply because it had a lot of Mat scenes. Overall it was definitely filler though.

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Also it has a badass rock song about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCLsqg05boo

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I would consider myself a Wheel of Time fan but I've never actually finished the series. I have tried twice and stopped in book 8 the first time and book 10 the second time. The series is great but man that middle part drags. In the grand scheme of things even those books are still relatively good I think, but books are not a medium I naturally take to and it requires a lot to keep me invested.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC_QsyHAMGY
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Great write up. The Wheel of Time is my favourite book series and I identify with a lot of what you wrote. What a rollercoaster it was when RJ passed away...

I remember doing a business class in 2007 that had presentations just to practice speaking to a group and one was a throwaway assignment to pick a few topics that are important to you and teach the group something interesting about it, so people talked about sports teams or their horse or whatever. I chose WoT as one of my topics and talked about how it was my favourite series, and how it was very unique since the author had just passed away and it had been announced someone else would finish the series (who I hadn't heard of before), so it would be interesting to see how that actually worked out.

Boy did it ever work out. Sanderson NAILED it and it led me to reading his other series. Wheel of Time is still my favourite book series but Sanderson has become my favourite author.

I'm very excited about the new TV show. I'm telling everyone I know about it so they keep it on their radar when it eventually launches

PLEASE BE GOOD
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I love wheel of time. I still cant believe how strongly it ends given what a massive story it was. So good.

And Sanderson became my favorite author after WoT introduced me to him so that will always hold a special place for me.

I actually did a 100 favorite characters list for Wheel of time on another board and still had to leave off good and important characters because there are so many.

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Thanks for sharing all of your thoughts. This was a pretty entertaining read through.

I have only read the first Wheel of Time book. I really liked the world that was built and the development of the characters. But, man did the introduction drag on. The first quarter of that book was so wordy and slow. The middle half was excellent, though - I couldn't stop reading it. The last quarter of the book felt very disjointed, though. While the first quarter felt painfully slow, the last quarter felt like they skipped way ahead and had a major plot point that didn't make much sense to me.

I never got around to continuing the series after that, but maybe I will. I just don't have the time for books that I used to.

As far as fantasy books go, When I was younger, my favorite series was the Death Gate Cycle. And as an adult, i also really liked the Belgariad and the Malloreon. Both are excellent fantasy series in my opinion.

And, of course, the Star Wars Hand of Thrawn Trilogy - since you consider it fantasy in sci-fi cosplay. Have you ever read any of those?
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Wheel of time is a great series. Long AF and sometimes you can get lost, but good.
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OracleGunner posted...

Wheel of time is a great series. Long AF and sometimes you can get lost, but good.

I love how you can give a fan a minor crisis just by mentioning "the Bowl"
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I was not expecting WoT at #1. Especially not when basically everything else on this list was things I hadn't experienced. And doubly so because, as KP acknowledges, Wheel of Time has some really huge faults.

I like Wheel of Time for what it is. I went back and reread the whole series from scratch when Sanderson's first work was coming out. I came to appreciate a few of the characters a little more, and the book 7-9 slog wasn't nearly so bad, but I still swore to myself afterward that I was never going to read another fantasy doorstop again. I'd come to realize how much more enjoyable reading books under 600 pages was, and although I've broken my rule a few times -- especially when a series gradually gets longer -- if someone said a series was the new Wheel of Time, I don't think I'd be interested, even as much as I respected what Sanderson did to close out the series.

I still have my WoT CCG cards, though. Anyone want to play?
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cyko posted...

And as an adult, i also really liked the Belgariad and the Malloreon. Both are excellent fantasy series in my opinion.

And, of course, the Star Wars Hand of Thrawn Trilogy - since you consider it fantasy in sci-fi cosplay. Have you ever read any of those?

Haven't read any of these, and I'll keep them in mind for the future when the fantasy itch needs to be scratched again.

NFUN posted...

I love how you can give a fan a minor crisis just by mentioning "the Bowl"

I see your 'The Bowl' and raise you 'The Shaido'

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I've been reading the Baccano light novels and those have been fun if you're into crazy and dense plotlines with lots and lots of characters.
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They're so good. I mean I love the anime, just watched it again recently, but it's such an unbelievably small piece of the overall narrative.

Great topic idea, and quality write-ups. I'm glad I followed this topic, even though I have precious little experience with most of your list.
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MetalmindStats posted...

Great topic idea, and quality write-ups. I'm glad I followed this topic, even though I have precious little experience with most of your list.

read wot
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15 books jesus

I've been thinking about that series for a while, but that's a lot to get into.
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