Current Events > So #Dexit is going to go beyond Pokemon Sword/Shield

(+) Yeah! (+)

CM_Ponch posted...

How is it annoying argument that you don't care about something that affects everyone else? The Pokedex was something optional and you didn't like it so you have no issue with it being cut even if screws over people who do care vs you just not worrying about the pokemon you don't care for?

Ignoring that you use the defense of "people don't like new pokemon" even though a majority of popular Pokmon from every Gen got cut including the starters?

See, you guys care about the Pokedex being cut. I don't. It's really that simple. I never used all of the Pokemon, or even thought about keeping them all. That's why it doesn't bother me. It sucks for the people that do care, but I can't bring myself to be indignant about it. It's just being angry for the sake of it at that point. The post-game is completely optional as well, and I don't care about it that much. The game stops for me when I beat the final bad guy and the storyline is complete.

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Yeah this is a no buy from me dawg

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Crepes posted...

Can you give some past examples where this has happened? Outside of a vocal minority I don't see this being an issue.

Star Wars Battlefront 2 is the most famous example of a company getting their shit fed back to them because of their hubris. It doesn't happen often enough, though. Inversely, the best example of fans getting what they want is when Operation Rainfall convinced Nintendo (and companies with money) to release Xenoblade Chonicles, Pandora's Tower, and another RPG in the west. Xenoblade Chronicles is now a pretty successful RPG franchise over here, and I can't wait for its remaster to hit the Switch.

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There was the ending to Mass Effect 3, where complaining worked so hard that they actually ended up putting out free DLC for an ending that didn't suck.

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Guide posted...

There was the ending to Mass Effect 3, where complaining worked so hard that they actually ended up putting out free DLC for an ending that didn't suck.

That ending alone made me not want to play ME3. I wanted to play it on PC, because I played the first 2 there. However, it was locked behind Origin, and I didn't want it on my computer system. Then the backlash happened, and I never noped so hard out of a series before. It sucks, because I really liked ME1, and ME2 was brilliant.

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Guide posted...

There was the ending to Mass Effect 3, where complaining worked so hard that they actually ended up putting out free DLC for an ending that didn't suck.

I think its what got Bethesda to add post-game to Fallout 3 as well.
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Guide posted...

It's entirely possible that they simply can't fit every model in given the RAM constraints, but that's just them being unwilling to put resources into figuring out how to work with the Switch.

Why would the models be in RAM as opposed to permanent memory?
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EzeDoesIt posted...

I think its what got Bethesda to add post-game to Fallout 3 as well.

While i dont disagree, you had to pay for the Fallout 3 content.

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Alucard188 posted...

Star Wars Battlefront 2 is the most famous example of a company getting their s*** fed back to them

That's a great example.

@masterpug53 - How do you feel the current Pokemon situation compares to the clusterfuck was the SWBF2? Do you think S+S will have a similar drop in sales?
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IllegalAlien posted...

Why would the models be in RAM as opposed to permanent memory?

Also why would they be able to do it for 3DS but not for Switch?

Alucard188 posted...

See, you guys care about the Pokedex being cut. I don't. It's really that simple. I never used all of the Pokemon, or even thought about keeping them all. That's why it doesn't bother me. It sucks for the people that do care, but I can't bring myself to be indignant about it. It's just being angry for the sake of it at that point. The post-game is completely optional as well, and I don't care about it that much. The game stops for me when I beat the final bad guy and the storyline is complete.

That's fine, but you almost framed your post as if cutting the Pokemon is an improvement on the series. And tbh, it could have been if there was actual improvement on the quality of the Pokemon themselves or the game as a whole. The problem is that it is a loss with, as far as anybody who is analyzing the returning Pokemon models and animations can tell, nothing to make up for it. And then GameFreak had the gall to say that they were cut because of how they planned to improve the "expression" of the Pokemon when every single returning Pokemon model and animation has been shown to have been copy/pasted from 3DS. This includes human NPC animations and animations included in some phone app.

Additionally, it appears all moves that were in Pokemon Let's Go had their move animations copy/pasted to this game. Tbh, the moves in that game look nice, so this isn't really an issue imo. Neither is reusing the Pokemon models - they still look nice because they were "future proofed", and would continue to look nice in cartoon graphics for quite some time. And, with nearly 1000 Pokemon, I understand not updating the animations on any of the returning ones. But to cut over half of the old Pokemon and do nothing to improve their look/animation?

It's a matter of "what is even the point"? Part of me wonders if this is because they were running out of ideas for making new Pokemon with unique/interesting stat spreads and abilities without power creep. And if so, I would guess that the majority of the Pokemon community doesn't really care.
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Crepes posted...

Alucard188 posted...

Star Wars Battlefront 2 is the most famous example of a company getting their s*** fed back to them

That's a great example.

@masterpug53 - How do you feel the current Pokemon situation compares to the clusterfuck was the SWBF2? Do you think S+S will have a similar drop in sales?

I certainly don't have any insider information and couldn't give you any apples-to-apples comparisons. I haven't bought an EA game since the PS2 era, so I didn't really follow any Battlefront drama.

I was speaking more in a general sense, like Netflix almost going out of business overnight when they tried to split / double their rates; Bethesda getting their asses handed to them over lazy development and / or bad PR, first with their attempt a few years back at paid mods (not Creation Club, their actual paid mod attempt), and now Fallout 76.

Probably the best example I can think of is fan backlash getting Microsoft to curb their anti-consumerism for the XB1, if only because that dickish Masuda quote in the OP about the Exp. Share is eerily similar to the infamous 'well we do have a product for [people who can't get an always-online connection], it's called the XBox 360.'
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Jabodie posted...

That's fine, but you almost framed your post as if cutting the Pokemon is an improvement on the series.

I've been a fan of quality over quantity, so the evisceration of the Dex could have been mollified somewhat if they actually had more of the best pokemon in it. It seems like there was no rhyme or reason for culling the pokemon as they did. I can't make sense of it, but it still doesn't bother me that much.

You know, this reminds me a lot of backwards compatibility in video games. A lot. Even a lot of the argument is the same. I care about BC because I want the ability to play my old games on any hardware. It's why I like PC gaming; I can go play gold box AD&D games and Crysis on the same rig. So, yeah. I do get why people are upset by it. Game companies have gotten so used to taking things away without offering anything in return, or selling the solution to a problem that the industry allowed them to create. Imagine limiting your personal storage and your PC storage, then selling you the upgrades via MTX. I wonder when the other shoe will drop with SWSH, if it comes to that.

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It's fine if they cut Pokemon to do something valuable. But all the leaks suggest otherwise. The roster sucks with a bunch of Pokemon now without Megas to define them and other Pokemon that fit the British theme being questionably left out. The gen representation is incredibly skewed. No other starters or legendaries which means a great majority of favorites are out (except the now hated Charizard).

Also there's little to no post game content, and some weird curry side game that various leakers didn't even bother going over because it was so bland and basic supposedly. D-max/G-max mechanic that's supposedly a pretty flimsy replacement for megas. From the leaks, a directly inferior battle tower to USUM's.

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Alucard188 posted...

I've been a fan of quality over quantity, so the evisceration of the Dex could have been mollified somewhat if they actually had more of the best pokemon in it. It seems like there was no rhyme or reason for culling the pokemon as they did. I can't make sense of it, but it still doesn't bother me that much.

In all honesty, I personally do not actually care about playing old Pokemon. When playing a new gen, I almost exclusively play new Pokemon. I just fine it fun to use new stuff, so that for me at least, there are a handful of unique Pokemon that define every generation. I don't really catch them all or keep up with a "living dex." And I don't even know if I would care if GameFreak didn't flat out lie about why they did it. But it all together is just a bit too much for me.

I do think that, eventually, they need to start a) culling Pokemon and improving the Pokemon that are returning (which is kinda what I hoped would happen), or b) improve a select set of Pokemon that can be found in the generation and importing the rest without improvement, which is a compromise that will still upset some people, but I think will be a lot more reasonable to accept. Then for game balance, if they're worried about it, just have a "competitive" and "all Pokemon" battle mode online. People will still be upset, but a lot of people will be happy if that "competitive" mode had Pokemon that were tweaked between gens.
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CM_Ponch posted...

Alucard188 posted...

. I personally think that the Pokedex is too f***ing massive anyways, so I welcome not having every single mon in there.

I don't understand this mindset. Catching all the pokemon and filling the dex was always optional, why were people bothered by the amount of pokemon

There's never been a case where some are literally impossible to get though. More than half are now impossible to get. As in they are not programmed in the game at all. Regional 'dexes are not the same as having some pokemon locked out with no hopes of ever using them.
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Gamefreak needs to stop being cheap and hire more people. Literally one of the biggest franchises in the world, you have no excuse. This ain't an Indy game run by you and two of your friends.
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ZMythos posted...

On the one hand, that is understandable, because Masuda previously indicated that Game Freak does not have the manpower to animate all pokmon if it also wants to introduce new game play features.

With all the billions pokemon makes I am sure they can hire a few more people to do it.
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I will be able to use them all on Showdown. Fuck Game Freak and their nonsensical ideas.
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I guess I won't be bothering with Pokemon beyond Sword/Shield, then.

Actually, fuck that game too, I'm out.
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ZombiePelican posted...

Solar_Crimson posted...

Yeah, I already preloaded the game a while back before the shit hit the fan, but it's looking like Sword/Shield may be my last game for this series. I don't want to reward Game Freak for this bullshit anymore.

Then you should have stopped at X and Y because that was the last serviceable effort they put in.

https://i.imgur.com/vyTevx0.jpg

You really gonna do oras dirty like that? Apart from the lack of battle frontier, it was decent in all respects
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Im not a graphics whore, but when you have people comparing your game to a game that was released 21 years ago there might be a problem.
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