Current Events > Joe Rogan: Forced Diversity Will Be Embarrassing in Retrospect

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UnfairRepresent posted...

village

My ignorance to British geographical terms does not address your hypocrisy.

MIB set in the 1930's with a black agent being treated like everyone else would be weird as fuck, yes.

A fictional village set in present day UK aimed at educating children with a very diverse cast would not be weird seeing as how that's what their world is looking like.

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Phewfus posted...

AKA a company attempting to appear progressive by hiring a quota based on superficial aspects like race/gender and not on merit

Remember the outrage over Black Ariel and Black Starfire? Nevermind that Starfire is an orange-skinned alien, but apparently, a Black woman is not allowed to play her.

Remember the racism that Kelly Marie Tran got thrown her way, to the point where she closed all of her social media?

They auditioned for their respective parts and got them. Isn't that merit? But people still focused on their races, or attacked them for it.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Case and point

This would be embarrassing

Just saying "case and point" doesn't mean anything. Can you refute the logic that people who are worried about defending Earth from alien threats would be less likely to get hung up on racial or sexual differences than the average population?

Look at how people accept integration. If there were no such things as Chinatown, white parts of the city, black parts of the city etc etc. Black churches, white churches...you'd know this is if you didn't watch television and get your information from it. Majority of people rather be around people similar to themselves.

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"I"m SUPER left wing and progressives...but those progressives are so fucking dumb! Let me rant about it for two and a half hours. Jamie pull up that video."


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Forced diversity is when minorities are disproportionately represented in media.

It doesn't matter what part of the world you're in, that's what it is.

It's unrealistic, but it's not a bad thing. It's likely a good thing for future generations. Even if it's not realistic, maybe inoculating our youth with forced diversity will help them to not be so anti minority.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Sounds like your problem here is semantics rather the actual point raised

My bigger issue is people like.....well you that seem to think anytime there are minorities included, it is forced diversity rather than those groups having talented people.

I mean one of your examples was literally a black woman being super excited and promoting her movie because it had a diverse cast and she hoped that it would start a trend to see more people being represented. It wasn't about about race-changing characters. It wasn't about making historically inaccurate or awkward films like your MIB example. It was simply "I want my movie to show people that we can have all types of people come together" and for you, that is forced diversity.

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Kastrada posted...

But people also default to "TOKENISM! FORCED DIVERSITY" whenever anything involves minorities getting a role. Halle Bailey getting the role as Ariel and people flipped their s*** saying this wasn't based on talent even though she's a good actress and can sing her ass off.

You have a few options in explaining that:

1.The person is coming from a perspective of prejudice.

2. Depending on the context, they see this as insincere pandering of political activism with an overall lowering of quality in entertainment as a whole that it is an overall trend in the entertainment industry currently.

3.The people are just trolls and get a kick out of upsetting people.

Michael Malice huh? Never heard of him, let's see if I can find out anything about him:

Since 2014, Malice has been a regular guest on the Fox News and Fox Business Network shows The Independents,[18] Kennedy,[19] Red Eye,[19] The Greg Gutfeld Show,[20] The Story with Martha MacCallum,[21] and Tucker Carlson Tonight.[22] He is also a regular guest on The Tom Woods Show podcast[23] and has appeared on The Joe Rogan Experience[19] and The Rubin Report.[24] Malice is also a regular columnist at Observer.[25]

Well, that's quite a list of show's to appear on...

In 2019, Malice published his second solely-authored work The New Right: A Journey to the Fringe of American Politics. The book is a historical analysis of the American New Right movement and additionally contextualizes the events surrounding Donald Trump's victory in the 2016 United States presidential election.

Hmm, never heard of it, let's search for that book on Amazon and the Editorial Reviews....

"A hilarious and very smart man." Joe Rogan, Host of The Joe Rogan Experience

"Michael Malice is a smug Jew who comes from Russia. I don't like him because he beats me in arguments and makes me look like an idiot." Gavin McInnes, Co-Founder of Vice Magazine

"The Willy Wonka of politics!" Dave Rubin, Host of The Rubin Report

"Everyone is reading The New Right and so should you." Jack Posobiec, Host for One America News Network

Oh boy, I wonder if I can find a passage from the book...

the evangelical left is an army of programmed enemies with whom discourse is quite literally pointless and whose only role is to destroy the heroes (or, as leftists would say, protagonists, because hero is a problematic term).

This guy seems like an ill informed jackass

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UnfairRepresent posted...

No one got mad Will Smith was in Men In Black or that K was gay

If you rebooted Men In Black, set it in the 1930s and then made every member of the organisation a different race and gay/bi/a fury , it would be forced and embarrassing

So the only realism you demand in fictional shows is racial and sexual orientation make up, got it.

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KillerKhan420 posted...

Look at how people accept integration. If there were no such things as Chinatown, white parts of the city, black parts of the city etc etc. Black churches, white churches...you'd know this is if you didn't watch television and get your information from it. Majority of people rather be around people similar to themselves.

No body would rather be around assholes like you

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While I agree forced diversity is tiring, I don't think a stage production/ice skating show is the best example. Those mediums have always been talent over appearance, therefore we've had multicultural casts in things like Shakespeare plays for decades. Pretty much the only thing those productions care about is age and gender matching the character. And sometimes not even those matter!

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Alt Right hero Joe Rogan strikes again.

Example in video is hilarious I never saw Frozen but they called the black guy who had the white kids a cuck. Someone else must have knocked up the woman. XD

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It's kinda sad that Unfair things that the secret organisation who defends out planet from aliens and select the best if humanity to do so would be just as bigoted as the general public.
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Phewfus posted...

You have a few options in explaining that:

1.The person is coming from a perspective of prejudice.

2. Depending on the context, they see this as insincere pandering of political activism with an overall lowering of quality in entertainment as a whole that it is an overall trend in the entertainment industry currently.

3.The people are just trolls and get a kick out of upsetting people.

But for this specific example, 1 and 2 overlap.

The argument against forced diversity is always how it should be merit based and about the talent and not the race. Fair. But when you have a black woman who is overly qualified in both examples and she STILL gets labeled as token, that's the issue specifically for the Halle casting.


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KiwiTerraRizing posted...

So the only realism you demand in fictional shows is racial and sexual orientation make up, got it.

Strawman

DundiesAward posted...

Alt Right hero Joe Rogan strikes again.

Example in video is hilarious I never saw Frozen but they called the black guy who had the white kids a cuck. Someone else must have knocked up the woman. XD

Which makes no sense as Joe pointed out because the Chinese kid grew up to be a white chick
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It already is

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Solar_Crimson posted...

Remember the outrage over Black Ariel and Black Starfire? Nevermind that Starfire is an orange-skinned alien, but apparently, a Black woman is not allowed to play her.

There were people screeching on here and twitter about a white ginger being in Jedi Fallen Order.

There were people freaking out over Matt Damon in that Great Wall movie even though he doesn't play a chinese character in the film.

There was outrage on twitter over the Mandelorian not initially having any female characters in it.

There are mean people online with crappy opinions. This is nothing new.

But maybe you should be wondering whether companies are sincere in marketing social media outrage to sell you their products in the name of progressivism.

Dyinglegacy posted...

Forced diversity is when minorities are disproportionately represented in media.

It doesn't matter what part of the world you're in, that's what it is.

It's unrealistic, but it's not a bad thing. It's likely a good thing for future generations. Even if it's not realistic, maybe inoculating our youth with forced diversity will help them to not be so anti minority.

So it's something not happening. Got it.

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KillerKhan420 posted...

Look at how people accept integration. If there were no such things as Chinatown, white parts of the city, black parts of the city etc etc. Black churches, white churches...you'd know this is if you didn't watch television and get your information from it. Majority of people rather be around people similar to themselves.

You are terrible at drawing conclusions, and I'm not sure how you just ignore that the majority of NYC is a goddamn rainbow while using it as an example.

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Kastrada posted...

But for this specific example, 1 and 2 overlap.

The argument against forced diversity is always how it should be merit based and about the talent and not the race. Fair. But when you have a black woman who is overly qualified in both examples and she STILL gets labeled as token, that's the issue specifically for the Halle casting.

Sure, but it's also dependent on a case by case basis with who is saying these things and why, and they need to be looked at individually.

Someone can be shouting tokenism for different reasons than just being prejudice against minorities, like a minority person could look at it and say a company is being insincere when they take an established character and race swap them or put a minority character into a piece of media but not do anything meaningful with the character, like John Boyega recently discovered with these star wars movies.

Phewfus posted...

There were people freaking out over Matt Damon in that Great Wall movie even though he doesn't play a chinese character in the film.

The argument over that one was the "white saviour" narrative, it had nothing to do with whatever you're claiming.
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Bio1590 posted...

The argument over that one was the "white saviour" narrative, it had nothing to do with whatever you're claiming.

Dammit, too slow. But yeah this. And that's a trope that's been around since......well I guess European expansion? >_>

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Bio1590 posted...

The argument over that one was the "white saviour" narrative, it had nothing to do with whatever you're claiming.

Maybe but there were quite a few " there were no white people in ancient China" complaints.

Stuff like in Doctor Who where they act like racism wasn't prevalent in the 1700's, or acting like the US military wasn't segregated until the 1950's? Yes it looks terrible, even know and I wish people would stop doing shit like that.

Solar_Crimson posted...

Remember the outrage over Black Ariel

Hold up for a sec.

Would you be fine with an African fairy tale with a modern adaptation having a white protagonist?

And Starfire was hated because they didn't do the orange skin, and the creator modeled her after a Puerto Rican model and yet Starfire doesn't get to have an appropriate actress which is an underrepresented group.

People knew it would happen because frequently when a black actor is cast as someone with a weird skin color, they just make them black.

Look at Marvel with Korath the Pursuer, he's blue like most Kree in the comics but then just black in films.

There's no reason to do that, other than to go "no we need our minorities to be visible, can't just have them actually look like the character"

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The_Ivory_Man posted...

Would you be fine with an African fairy tale with a modern adaptation having a white protagonist?

Why is shit like this always the go-to as if Ariel being white is important to her identity
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diversity is a good thing

why are people against it?

and what alternative is there to "forcing" it? progress doesn't happen on its own

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Bio1590 posted...

Why is shit like this always the go-to as if Ariel being white is important to her identity

Because its so unrealistic. Show me one mermaid thats black irl.
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PleaseClap posted...

Because its so unrealistic. Show me one mermaid thats black irl.

Didn't mermaids murder and eat humans?

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Monolith1676 posted...

I think it is how they go about going explaining the diversity. For example, the Batwoman suit scene, the MiB:I "Men in Black" scene, the Doctor Who upgrade scene. They aren't explained to get you to care and be invested, they are explained with a quip that is meaningless.

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Ranlom posted...

xD so true on how their feel about diversity
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The Starfire debacle was mostly exacerbated by her terrible costume.

As early as day 1, people were photoshopping the actress into better Starfire renditions, with and without orange skin.

nobody said shit about Beast Boy because his costume wasnt a fucking embarrassment lol

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WHAT MAKES "forced diversity" different from regular diversity?

This video is a good response to one of the morons who whines about forced diversity. (The cringe wolf avatar belongs to the person whining about forced diversity, not the person who made this video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMNWRqa-vGc

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The_Ivory_Man posted...

Would you be fine with an African fairy tale with a modern adaptation having a white protagonist?

Maybe? It depends on the story. So far, we know as much about your African fairy tale with a modern adaptation with a white protagonist, as we do about the new Little Mermaid movie. There's plenty of time between there, and the eventual end product, for something interesting to happen, or more likely for it to be fucked up.

There's also the whole colonization thing.

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shockthemonkey posted...

There has been no force.

Lmao. Come on now.

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Ranlom posted...

The second guy in the top row is about to fall down a hole, so it can't be that "well". Unless, of course, it's a well he's falling into.

damn, alt right nazi Joe at it again smh

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averagejoel posted...

diversity is a good thing

why are people against it?

and what alternative is there to "forcing" it? progress doesn't happen on its own

This is a fair question and a total catch-22. I am a fairly left-leaning person, but I will be honest with you. To use the Little Mermaid as a recent example, when they announced they had cast someone, before I clicked on the link to the story I said to myself, I bet this chick is black. Lo and behold...

As such I think it's fair to say tokenism and forced diversity is a real thing and completely predictable. Whether it's a "good" thing or a "bad" thing I don't really have a passionate opinion about. But it's a thing. Any yes, the line between forced change and progressive change is a blurred one.

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Wetterdew posted...

WHAT MAKES "forced diversity" different from regular diversity?

You can't end discrimination by mandating it.

The_Ivory_Man posted...

Stuff like in Doctor Who where they act like racism wasn't prevalent in the 1700's, or acting like the US military wasn't segregated until the 1950's? Yes it looks terrible, even know and I wish people would stop doing shit like that.

Hold up for a sec.

Would you be fine with an African fairy tale with a modern adaptation having a white protagonist?

And Starfire was hated because they didn't do the orange skin, and the creator modeled her after a Puerto Rican model and yet Starfire doesn't get to have an appropriate actress which is an underrepresented group.

People knew it would happen because frequently when a black actor is cast as someone with a weird skin color, they just make them black.

Look at Marvel with Korath the Pursuer, he's blue like most Kree in the comics but then just black in films.

There's no reason to do that, other than to go "no we need our minorities to be visible, can't just have them actually look like the character"

lol @ you just ignoring Zoe Saldana's Gamora who kept the green skin.

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Questionmarktarius posted...

You can't end discrimination by mandating it.

That's a nice one-liner but it doesn't really have anything to do with the question you were responding to, "what makes "forced diversity" different from regular diversity?"

Diversity in media actually DOES help normalize underrepresented groups. That much we know. Nobody said anything about it "ending discrimination" except you, but it does help.

Is your media worse because it has a gay person/black person/woman in it? Would changing that character to be straight white and male fix the problems with the character? The real problem: POORLY WRITTEN characters. Not minority characters.

Now, diverse is NOT synonymous with poorly written. HOWEVER whenever a movie with minority/gay/female characters IS poorly written, people rush to blame it on the movie's diversity for some reason. Meanwhile when a movie starring all white guys gets bad reviews, people recognize it's not because the characters were all white, but because they were poorly written.

movie starring all straight white men is bad --> people say "this movie is bad"

movie starring minority/gay/female characters is bad --> people say "diversity has ruined this movie"

Double standard

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Wetterdew posted...

That's a nice one-liner but it doesn't really have anything to do with the question you were responding to, "what makes "forced diversity" different from regular diversity?"

Diversity in media actually DOES help normalize underrepresented groups. That much we know. Nobody said anything about it "ending discrimination" except you, but it does help.

Is your media worse because it has a gay person/black person/woman in it? Would changing that character to be straight white and male fix the problems with the character? The real problem: POORLY WRITTEN characters. Not minority characters.

Now, diverse is NOT synonymous with poorly written. HOWEVER whenever a movie with minority/gay/female characters IS poorly written, people rush to blame it on the movie's diversity for some reason. Meanwhile when a movie starring all white guys gets bad reviews, people recognize it's not because the characters were all white, but because they were poorly written.

movie starring all straight white men is bad --> people say "this movie is bad"

movie starring minority/gay/female characters is bad --> people say "diversity has ruined this movie"

Double standard

Exactly.

PsychicHippo posted...

As such I think it's fair to say tokenism and forced diversity is a real thing and completely predictable.

tokenism is a real thing. I have not been convinced that forced diversity is.

Any yes, the line between forced change and progressive change is a blurred one.

all progressive change has historically been forced.

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Wetterdew posted...

Now, diverse is NOT synonymous with poorly written. HOWEVER whenever a movie with minority/gay/female characters IS poorly written, people rush to blame it on the movie's diversity for some reason.

People are triggered by it in recent years due as the result of film companies promoting the value of their product by it being "diverse" "progressive" and "politically woke" or "meant to scare Misogynists" through online marketing and journalism, which people read and are influenced by. Companies are doing this because progressive activism is popular online amongst the millennial and z generation and they want to appeal to their supposed customers sensibilities to sell them products.

That it coincides with it being poorly written, it makes people think the product was only made to be political propaganda first and foremost, and a good movie second, so when companies promote their product with "woke" language, it becomes a dog whistle to people.

It's in the same realm of criticism as being a movie used solely to be a cash grab or sell toys. But to the people that agree with those messages, they get something more out of a product that would be terrible with or without diversity or political activism pushed into it.

Darmik posted...

Who forced the writers/producers to do that?

Why does it bother you that a cartoon aired in a multicultural country about a postman who drives with a cat has a diverse cast?

I think they mean the other definition for forced. Like, as in a forced smile. "Unnatural and with deliberate effort".