Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 278: Tulsi Gets a Delegate Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

KamikazePotato posted...

Eh, 2016 Trump was already deteriorating badly. Nothing Biden has done so far is as bad as "No Puppet. No Puppet. Youre the Puppet".

No, youre the puppet!

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KamikazePotato posted...

Eh, 2016 Trump was already deteriorating badly. Nothing Biden has done so far is as bad as "No Puppet. No Puppet. Youre the Puppet".

yeah hence the primary season distinction. something started being off with him right after it starting with that town hall thing with matt lauer

he was never perfect, but it just got weirder and weirder with him communiction wise from that point on

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No Malarkey. No Malarkey. You're the Malarkey.

I could link you to a podcast that briefly covers Democratic tampering but 1) that's insane who would listen to a podcast based on someone's recommendation

as I was saying yesterday, who wants a podcast recommendation?!

https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-103-the-glib-left-punching-of-purity-politics-discourse

It's the latest episode of Citations Needed covering the concept of purity vs. pragmatism that often comes up when discussing American politics. It uses a Guardian article from 2019 about Obama's reaction to modern activism (link here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/01/does-obamas-critique-of-radical-politics-help-bring-about-the-change-he-wanted ) as a jumping off point for their discussion with Malaika Jabali, the author of the piece. I think it does a pretty solid job of discussing narratives the media propagates re: pragmatism and articulates the left theory of activism and why certain leaders refuse to be co-opted. Thought it might be of interest.

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https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/gop-blocking-coronavirus-bill-because-it-limits-how-much-drugmakers-can-charge-for-a-vaccine-report/

"GOP blocking coronavirus bill because it limits how much drugmakers can charge for a vaccine"

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iiicon posted...

as I was saying yesterday, who wants a podcast recommendation?!

https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-103-the-glib-left-punching-of-purity-politics-discourse

It's the latest episode of Citations Needed covering the concept of purity vs. pragmatism that often comes up when discussing American politics. It uses a Guardian article from 2019 about Obama's reaction to modern activism (link here: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/01/does-obamas-critique-of-radical-politics-help-bring-about-the-change-he-wanted ) as a jumping off point for their discussion with Malaika Jabali, the author of the piece. I think it does a pretty solid job of discussing narratives the media propagates re: pragmatism and articulates the left theory of activism and why certain leaders refuse to be co-opted. Thought it might be of interest.

Ok Im about 20 minutes in, and holy shit, they have a quote from President Obama in 2016 that is literally:

Even if you are 100% right, if you dont compromise and start getting your goals done youre going to believe the system is rigged.

lmao, incredible.

Like he is 100% right, and pretty clearly directing that at the Bernie wing of the party in context.

But the thesis Im getting from the podcast so far is that this rhetoric is most often employed when pulling people toward the Right, and never allowed when trying to pull people left. And Im inclined to agree.


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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Like he is 100% right, and pretty clearly directing that at the Bernie wing of the party in context.

yeah the Obama of 2008 who built up a grassroots coalition that took on the the rhetoric of the democratic establishment is a far cry from the Obama of today

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going back to this...

KamikazePotato posted...

Maybe I'm just misremembering how bad Corrik is cause I've had him on ignore for months, but the lack of empathy and total inability to understand the life situations of other people that LotM exhibits in most conversations reminds me heavily of him. The whole 'the healthcare system is fine because its fine for me, don't worry guys America is the greatest country in the world' argument was straight out of the Corrik playbook of 'my reality is the only reality and I'm confused that other people's realities exist'.

Corrik is transphobic and a white nationalist. LotM is a conservative who advocates for politics that will harm America and the world at large. I guess you can frame it in ways where they're not much different but Corrik fundamentally believes the politics of hate are beneficial to society while LotM is just like super wrong about a lot of things but not in a spiteful way (well until you bring up Sanders).

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They're upping the qualifying requirements for the rest of the debates

lol tulsi

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StealThisSheen posted...

They're upping the qualifying requirements for the rest of the debates

lol tulsi

Is it bad that I'm disappointed by this?

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StealThisSheen posted...

They're upping the qualifying requirements for the rest of the debates

lol tulsi

Phew.

Although it would've been historic for the least consequential candidate to ever reach a debate stage this late, I feel like.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Is it bad that I'm disappointed by this?

I would've said no if this was earlier Tulsi, but ever since she became nothing but crying racism on Fox News and trying to sue people, I definitely want to see even less of her.

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metroid composite posted...

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/gop-blocking-coronavirus-bill-because-it-limits-how-much-drugmakers-can-charge-for-a-vaccine-report/

"GOP blocking coronavirus bill because it limits how much drugmakers can charge for a vaccine"

Literally just evil.

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iiicon posted...

Corrik is transphobic and a white nationalist. LotM is a conservative who advocates for politics that will harm America and the world at large. I guess you can frame it in ways where they're not much different but Corrik fundamentally believes the politics of hate are beneficial to society while LotM is just like super wrong about a lot of things but not in a spiteful way (well until you bring up Sanders).

I'm actually center-left economically (and if you want to call me just moderate whatever), but if you classify my views as conservative your center is just straight up totally miscalibrated. And that's without even going in to my social views, which are liberal by any measure.

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icon is canadian

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Speaking of coronavirus:

https://twitter.com/Politidope/status/1235415582931066880

I actually don't think he exactly says it's okay to go to work with it, but JFC

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LordoftheMorons posted...

but if you classify my views as conservative your center is just straight up totally miscalibrated. And that's without even going in to my social views, which are liberal by any measure.

Dude you prefer Biden and Bloomberg to Sanders, just own up to it.

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NFUN posted...

icon is canadian

I know. I just think the whole "Bernie is actually a centrist in international terms and everyone to the right of him is a conservative" line is bullshit.

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... he definitely did not say that.

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Internationally, Bernie is more in the center.

American politics is weird.

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NFUN posted...

icon is canadian

we don't have a functional left here either! Our PM is basically Beto and the ostensibly left party (NDP) stifles progressive members whenever they attempt to run or push the party on policy. It's like we have two democratic parties except one can win elections.

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Like that Trump clip is edited out to not have what's before or after. From the sounds of it he's just saying what people do, which is true. That just smells like Twitter bait you're falling for again.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I know. I just think the whole "Bernie is actually a centrist in international terms and everyone to the right of him is a conservative" line is bullshit.

Well yeah.
Mostly because the ones who say that have a very limited view of what "international" means, though. By a select few European countries, maybe. By any Middle Eastern country, no. By most countries internationally, no.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I just think the whole "Bernie is actually a centrist in international terms and everyone to the right of him is a conservative" line is bullshit.

I don't believe this nor did I insinuate it. Sanders is on the left and understands the best ways to apply pressure from the left. You're a conservative because you want a conservative to run your county, outright prefer a republican to a progressive, advocate for conservative policies like private insurance, and criticize progressive policies with conservative arguments.

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FFDragon posted...

Internationally, Bernie is more in the center.

American politics is weird.

His M4A plan is significantly more expansive than the universal health coverage provided by any other country. He wants a federal jobs guarantee. I also think this whole take is incredibly reductive and ignores issues where America is to the left of much of the world (e.g. free speech rights, immigration, etc)

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Kinglicious posted...

Like that Trump clip is edited out to not have what's before or after. From the sounds of it he's just saying what people do, which is true. That just smells like Twitter bait you're falling for again.

I think the issue comes in that saying stuff like "People don't even know they have it, they go to work with it and they're fine" is basically an invitation for idiots to go "Well, other people do it, so..."

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Trump's line here is basically "its so insignificant people don't realize they have it, stop worrying", which is A) not out of context and B) dumb as all fucking hell.

Trump is definitely not saying people not realizing they have it is a bad thing, he's saying that it's weak so who cares, doesn't matter if you get it.

LordoftheMorons posted...

His M4A plan is significantly more expansive than the universal health coverage provided by any other country. He wants a federal jobs guarantee. I also think this whole take is incredibly reductive and ignores issues where America is to the left of much of the world (e.g. free speech rights, immigration, etc)

If we start at most expansive ever, maybe after the Moderate Dems are done with it we could end up somewhere to the left of medical debt is the #1 reason people file bankruptcy?


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StealThisSheen posted...

I think the issue comes in that saying stuff like "People don't even know they have it, they go to work with it and they're fine" is basically an invitation for idiots to go "Well, other people do it, so..."

that's fair. but i would like to hear the before and after to get a better idea of what's being said as opposed to a cut out clip on twitter.


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iiicon posted...

I don't believe this nor did I insinuate it. Sanders is on the left and understands the best ways to apply pressure from the left. You're a conservative because you want a conservative to run your county, outright prefer a republican to a progressive, advocate for conservative policies like private insurance, and criticize progressive policies with conservative arguments.

1. Biden is not conservative
2. Bloomberg is considerably to the right of me and Sanders is considerably to the left. I think Bloomberg would be a far more effective president. I don't like either of them.
3. I'm for universal health care coverage. Single payer is not the only way to get there, and opposing it doesn't make someone a conservative.
4. I'm not sure which other policies you're specifically referring to, but yes, I freely admit to not being far left. I'm not sure specifically what constitutes a conservative argument here. I'm for (well regulated) capitalism, but that is, again, not the line between right and left.

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Like, the argument about American politics being to the right is good and all, but even by European definitions, Bernie is left of centre. Not hard left, but definitely left. You don't need to get carried away.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I'm actually center-left economically (and if you want to call me just moderate whatever), but if you classify my views as conservative your center is just straight up totally miscalibrated. And that's without even going in to my social views, which are liberal by any measure.

I can't believe someone posted I was transphobic and a white nationalist as in an Alt-Right way and people didn't rebuff him. Really thought better of yinz.

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Bernie is definitely far left.

But Biden is also definitely one iota away from being a Republican. Not on Bloomberg level, in which he is a Republican who only plays as a Dem so he could run, but he is still in reach.

found a better clip.
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1235411751950221312

question is on the Olympics possibly being delayed and the death rate being 3.4%.

so he's largely trying to dispel the 3.4% number, which is fair considering that's the global rate, not the US rate, which should be under 1% before this is all done. he then goes into a tirade about the flu and points out how that's under 1% too.

...technically i get where he's coming from on it, it's a matter of dispelling fears still. but not taken nearly as serious as it should be, which is a big mistake. should you expect 3.4% death rate in the US, no, should you expect a ridiculous amount of people getting sick and risking potential damage for life, yes.

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StealThisSheen posted...

I think the issue comes in that saying stuff like "People don't even know they have it, they go to work with it and they're fine" is basically an invitation for idiots to go "Well, other people do it, so..."

Hard to argue that Trump is the issue there with what you are saying than the people taking his comment cut out and posting it as if said by the President.


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Problem with that is there is nothing scarier than Trump saying something is fine, and nothing more reassuring then Trump saying something is a big problem.

corrik, it's icon.
actually applies to LOTM too: it's icon.

unless anything recently changed, he was like a mirror image of MWC.

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Wanglicious posted...

corrik, it's icon.
actually applies to LOTM too: it's icon.

unless anything recently changed, he was like a mirror image of MWC.

It's just that someone puts you on ignore so you cannot see their posts and then behind that veil are propagating false insults about you. That seems messed up. I only seen the vitriol he is saying due to a random quote. The fact people weren't contesting that when they know better means the person is being given the tacit okay to continue such behavior. Not cool.


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LordoftheMorons posted...

I know. I just think the whole "Bernie is actually a centrist in international terms and everyone to the right of him is a conservative" line is bulls***.

He's definitely left of center even by international standards, but not by a whole lot. Here's where Political Compass puts him:

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020

Sanders is to the left of center here, although he's closer to center than a lot of other candidates. (Warren is the closest to political center according to that chart).

By comparison, here's the UK (and bear in mind the UK voted for Brexit and have Boris Johnson as VP, it's not like I'm linking you Norway here):

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019

With Labour, the main opposition party, visibly to the left of Sanders. (Corbyn in particular is pretty far to the left of Sanders).

This shows up in his policies too. Like...single payer healthcare for example is something that just about every country has that he supports...but his version actually goes a bit further. It covers dental and vision (which are not covered in Canada for example). I believe it might cover pharmaceutical drugs as well (also not covered in Canada, and in fact rising drug prices were a major issue in the last Canadian election).

There's also the part where advocating for change in general is always harder than advocating small iterations on a working system. Going to single payer healthcare would be like ripping off a bandaid--good in the long term, but it's going to suck in the short term. Loads of people who work for insurance companies will be out of a job. Sure, yes, in the long term we might even pay less in taxes for healthcare with a well-implemented single payer system (Canada pays less in taxes for healthcare per person than America does) but in the short term overhauling the system won't be cheap. Part of the problem here is that Canada implemented universal healthcare in the 40s-50s when health care costs were not high, so the price of a transition plan was also not high. Health care costs have been going up everywhere (including Canada and the US) so the cost of a transition plan is now massive.

And like...knowing what I know about Bernie, if he was running in Canada, he would probably still be demanding changes, running to the left of all other candidates. I don't really see him, if he was in the Canadian government, thinking "yeah, everything here is fine, the status quo is good, and we don't need to improve anything." That's not who he is.

So...yeah, he's left of the international center for sure, and purely as speculation, I imagine if the US didn't have such obvious issues that other countries had already fixed, that he would find other reforms to make and run further to the left.

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Corrik7 posted...

It's just that someone puts you on ignore so you cannot see their posts and then behind that veil are propagating false insults about you. That seems messed up. I only seen the vitriol he is saying due to a random quote. The fact people weren't contesting that when they know better means the person is being given the tacit okay to continue such behavior. Not cool.

Im sorry. While I do think you have some blind spots on those issues, that was unfair of icon as well.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Speaking of coronavirus:

I don't know if it was posted here or not, but there was a very recent incident where a guy with Coronavirus who was told to not go anywhere (but couldn't be put under watch due to lack of staff resources, hooray for cuts to the CDC) proceeded to go to a public, crowded business meeting he didn't want to miss.

The GOP has a lot to answer for in their handling of the Coronavirus but what's going to do us in in the end is good ole' fashioned human error

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Biden is not conservative

we can look at history or we can look at a policy page worth of proposals that he's never lead on, has no interest in pursuing and has actively fought against his entire life.

MichelBollinger posted...

Not on Bloomberg level, in which he is a Republican who only plays as a Dem so he could run, but he is still in reach.

the comparison between the two is fairly instructive actually, Biden is a conservative (affluent white conservatives frequently find themselves in the democratic primary despite being to the right of who they represent) and Bloomberg is far right.

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politicalcompass is literally trash

Paratroopa1 posted...

politicalcompass is literally trash

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Man, my local early voting is only available for two days. Thankfully one is on my day off on the 14th.

i saw that case. not in here but online.
fucking cracked me up in a depressing way.

almost as funny as the story about the guy who caught something with flu-like symptoms, was told to stay home, and went to a fucking party.

swear to god, a giant meteor would be faster than this bullshit.

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KamikazePotato posted...

I don't know if it was posted here or not, but there was a very recent incident where a guy with Coronavirus who was told to not go anywhere (but couldn't be put under watch due to lack of staff resources, hooray for cuts to the CDC) proceeded to go to a public, crowded business meeting he didn't want to miss.

The GOP has a lot to answer for in their handling of the Coronavirus but what's going to do us in in the end is good ole' fashioned human error

I disagree. The virus is impossible to contain once it broke it's initial containment. What are you going to do at that point besides completely lock down the border indefinitely and lock down everyone in their homes indefinitely? We don't even understand the virus fully at this point.

Then, that's assuming you can lock the border down fully (which Hint: You can't or illegal immigration and drug smuggling wouldn't exist).

Edit: I think what many don't seem to understand due to their limited following of the virus is that there is a ton of evidence to support that it spreads asymptomatically, incubation time can exceed quarantine in outliers, and possible reinfection exists.

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Paratroopa1 posted...

politicalcompass is literally trash

this is true but I think in this instance she came out with the right conclusions (except maybe Corbyn and Sanders are closer than she's inferring) so no harm no foul imo

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fail to see how it's unfair to correctly identify someone as transphobic who calls trans people unnatural and plays up the histrionics of teaching children to accept and understand trans people by appealing to nonsense bioessentialism rhetoric like sex is meant for reproduction and arguing that any push for trans inclusivity is equivalent to a transgender riot squad of sjws forcing ideology on people, all of which are things corrik has said. happy to hear if he's evolved on this matter, and if not i'm super curious why you feel this is unfair lotm

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University of Georgia polls have Trump stomping any of the theoretical Democratic Nominees in Georgia. I know that's a state some of you have targeted as a flip. Biden polled the best at -8.

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