Current Events > Michael Moore: Joe Biden cannot defeat Trump w/o young people.

(+) Yeah! (+)

here's why bernie was actually right to vote for the crime bill but i can't give biden the same treatment

andel posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

Privilege is being able to choose between the candidate who throws Hispanic children in cages and the candidate that was a part of the administration that built those cages and saying that you're completely content with whichever one you chose.

privledge is telling minorities and gay people you dont give a shit about them because you would rather throw a tantrum about not getting 100% of what you want

Ah yes, Biden the savior of minorities and gays lmao maybe you should do more research on your mans
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Smashingpmkns posted...

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/26/11116412/bernie-sanders-mass-incarceration

Context is important.

its telling you cant seem to answer anything in your own words and instead try (and fail hard) to rely on spamming links that dont even help your perspective.

you claimed biden is racist for supporting the '94 crime bill. bernie supported the same bill so by your logic he is racist too. i will allow you to walk back your statement but you wrecked yourself already

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Broseph_Stalin posted...

here's why bernie was actually right to vote for the crime bill but i can't give biden the same treatment

You know Biden helped write the crime bill, right? Lmao
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Ah yes, Biden the savior of minorities and gays lmao maybe you should do more research on your mans

like sanders biden has been a champion of minorities for a long time, yes.

i am glad i was able to educate you somewhat itt and attempt to make you less of a low info voter. let's see if it sticks

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andel posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/26/11116412/bernie-sanders-mass-incarceration

Context is important.

its telling you cant seem to answer anything in your own words and instead try (and fail hard) to rely on spamming links that dont even help your perspective.

you claimed biden is racist for supporting the '94 crime bill. bernie supported the same bill so by your logic he is racist too. i will allow you to walk back your statement but you wrecked yourself already

The article plainly explains why Bernie compromised and his long history of disagreeing with the crime bill. Politics are hard!
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Smashingpmkns posted...

You know Biden helped write the crime bill, right? Lmao

you mean the same bill bernie supported and voted for?

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andel posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

You know Biden helped write the crime bill, right? Lmao

you mean the same bill bernie supported and voted for?

Reading is hard
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Smashingpmkns posted...

The article plainly explains why Bernie compromised and his long history of disagreeing with the crime bill. Politics are hard!

so you are trying to push an article you havent even read and remain unable to explain your purported positions in your own words? noted

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the alt righter is spamming emojis in its meltdown now lol

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You're literally handwaiving proof of Biden having a history of racism and credible sexual harrassment claims because he's your man. That's privilege homie.

You know who's other supporters do the same thing?
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Smashingpmkns posted...

You're literally handwaiving proof of Biden having a history of racism and credible sexual harrassment claims because he's your man. That's privilege homie.

you have yet to provide any argument whatsoever for either claim. feel free to do so and i will address them

also extra lol at calling the sexual harassment claim credible. trumpers truly are amazing in the complete lack of self awareness

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andel posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

You're literally handwaiving proof of Biden having a history of racism and credible sexual harrassment claims because he's your man. That's privilege homie.

you have yet to provide any argument whatsoever for either claim. feel free to do so and i will address them

also extra lol at calling the sexual harassment claim credible. trumpers truly are amazing in the complete lack of self awareness

Multiple women (staffers, assistants, etc) have came out and said they have been sexually harassed by Biden. Inappropriate kissing, hugs, touching, etc. The NYT did an article on it today but I guess I shouldn't post it cuz you can't read it.
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andel posted...

none of what you linked shows biden having a racist history at all and i can tell you didnt actually read the links considering a couple of them highlight biden denouncing racism in the 70s and advocating expanding affordable housing into the suburbs.

Him denouncing racism in the 70s carries less weight when you read that he was literally against policies that would help integrate schools in the north.

Also:
His suggestion that Barack Obama was the first clean and articulate African-American to run for president is probably the most infamous of his gaffes. But the former vice-president also told a crowd of black voters in 2012 that Mitt Romney would put you all back in chains, and has a habit of badly impersonating Indian convenience-store clerks and call-center employees. But Bidens most troubling racially tinged remarks might be those he does not regard as such. Specifically, the former vice-president has long boasted of his warm and often legislatively productive relationships with white supremacist southern senators.
Ive been around so long, I worked with James Eastland, Biden said at a rally for Democratic Senate candidate Doug Jones in the fall of 2017. Even in the days when I got there, the Democratic Party still had seven or eight old-fashioned Democratic segregationists. Youd get up and youd argue like the devil with them. Then youd go down and have lunch or dinner together. The political system worked. We were divided on issues, but the political system worked.

Godnorgosh posted...

Man, for someone who claims Bernie-or-busters don't give a shit about oppressed groups andel's really going ham in his defense of the guy who worked with segregationists, creeps on women, consistently tries to cut social safety nets...

considering you are trying to misrepresent biden in a weak attempt to shill for trump...lol.

politicians are all somewhat self serving and evolve over time. bernie has had some really bad votes and views in the past and he has adapted with the times, like biden. show me where biden is supporting any kind of racist policy or anything negative for women and i will denounce those things but of course you cant do that. letting trump win would sure harm women, minorities, gay people, ect.

also 'creeps on women' is just more gop propaganda you are either willfully pushing or cluelessly falling for

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Smashingpmkns posted...

Multiple women (staffers, assistants, etc) have came out and said they have been sexually harassed by Biden. Inappropriate kissing, hugs, touching, etc. The NYT did an article on it today but I guess I shouldn't post it cuz you can't read it.

you mean this article?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html

the one in which nyt claims they have found no pattern of sexual misconduct from biden?

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Godnorgosh posted...

Nah dude, I'd just like for a better candidate to be drafted at the convention. Someone who could perform much better against Trump than Biden, so that these oppressed groups you claim to care about have a better shot.

so you dont believe in voting or allowing the voting public to decide who should represent them?

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andel posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

Multiple women (staffers, assistants, etc) have came out and said they have been sexually harassed by Biden. Inappropriate kissing, hugs, touching, etc. The NYT did an article on it today but I guess I shouldn't post it cuz you can't read it.

you mean this article?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html

the one in which nyt claims they have found no pattern of sexual misconduct from biden?

No pattern of sexual misconduct other than the unwanted inappropriate kissing, hugging, and touching, which happens to be *gasp* a pattern of sexual misconduct.
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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/78573572

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Smashingpmkns posted...

No pattern of sexual misconduct other than the unwanted inappropriate kissing, hugging, and touching, which happens to be *gasp* a pattern of sexual misconduct.

so is that not the article you were referring to? do you need me to quote and highlight the part where the nyt says they have been unable to establish any history of sexual misconduct with biden?

also the women who say biden made them uncomfortable specifically came out and said they did not think how he behaved was sexual harassment...so i am guessing you are claiming to have more knowledge about that situation than the women actually involved?

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in fact, all of the women who biden made uncomfortable specifically stated they did not believe what he did was sexual harassment or assault.

idk how anyone is gonna try and spin that but they undoubtedly will

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This topic started with a reasonable observation that Biden needs to work with Bernie's supporters. The hostile tantrum by a middle aged man in response tells me that the reasons for that observation are valid. He told Moore to fuck himself. How dare anyone suggest that Biden is anyone but the great mediator that will heal the democratic party?

Biden grabbed the nomination in an opportunistic, sweeping power grab. Sanders supporters stood up strong with the supporters for Biden, Buttigieg, Bloomberg, Klobuchar, and possibly Steyer combined. How can people like this criticize anyone else for being cynical? The only way I'll feel good about voting for Biden is if he commits to having people smarter and more able than him do the real work of the administration, but I'm not holding out for that.

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andel posted...

you mean this article?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-sexual-assault-complaint.html

the one in which nyt claims they have found no pattern of sexual misconduct from biden?

The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses, and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable, TheNYTs initial copy noted before editors nixed the sentences second clause after the story was already live.

BawdySausage posted...

The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses, and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable, TheNYTs initial copy noted before editors nixed the sentences second clause after the story was already live.

"Context is difficult when I want something to say something other than what it says badly enough"

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Godnorgosh posted...

I mean Democratic leadership clearly doesn't, given that Obama and Reid had Buttigieg and Klobuchar drop out and endorse Biden just before Super Tuesday, given the various voter-suppression tactics used in areas with more minority representation, given that Biden was against postponing the Wisconsin primary before he was in favor of it. If the two major parties are going to use undemocratic tactics to keep corporatists in office, then the left needs to do the same to try to push them out.

pete and klob voters were never going to bernie so your argument is basically that bernie should have been anointed despite never having a chance of getting the majority of the votes. in this country we generally award the person who is able to get the most votes

also, voter suppression is very serious for sure, but bernie would have gotten an even smaller overall percentage if more black people were able to easily access the polls.

you trying to argue that people shouldnt be able to strategically drop out is just showcasing a profound ignorance of how the political system works, and it doesnt even help your supposed stance

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BawdySausage posted...

The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses, and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable, TheNYTs initial copy noted before editors nixed the sentences second clause after the story was already live.

the actual women involved have stated it wasnt sexual harassment so unless you can address that you dont seem to have anything of value to add

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berlyman101 posted...

This topic started with a reasonable observation that Biden needs to work with Bernie's supporters. The hostile tantrum by a middle aged man in response tells me that the reasons for that observation are valid. He told Moore to fuck himself. How dare anyone suggest that Biden is anyone but the great mediator that will heal the democratic party?

Biden grabbed the nomination in an opportunistic, sweeping power grab. Sanders supporters stood up strong with the supporters for Biden, Buttigieg, Bloomberg, Klobuchar, and possibly Steyer combined. How can people like this criticize anyone else for being cynical? The only way I'll feel good about voting for Biden is if he commits to having people smarter and more able than him do the real work of the administration, but I'm not holding out for that.

if bernie couldnt win over the majority of democratic voters why should he win? do you think primaries usually involve all candidates staying in until the convention? that literally never happens. if your argument is that other people dropping out hurt bernie welcome to every primary ever.

a candidate has to be able to consolidate the party to win a nomination.

also biden already has a history of delegating to others. unlike trump he would actually listen to experts

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Godnorgosh posted...

Biden would not be the frontrunner if Buttigieg and Klobuchar had stayed in past Super Tuesday. No one is saying they shouldn't be able to drop out of their own accord, but the fact that they were persuaded to do so by figureheads within the party, specifically to keep Sanders out, is very telling.

Sanders also does extraordinarily well with Hispanic voters, and voter suppression ran rampant in Texas.

welcome to politics i guess? this kind of thing happens in literally every primary ever where there is more than a couple of people in the field.

also being 'front runner' is irrelevant until the votes come in. the person who can consolidate the party behind them and win the broadest support should absolutely be the nominee, no matter who it is.

people seem to be glossing over the fact that biden generated record turnout in key swing states and this is a very important metric to winning a presidential election.

and bernie does do well with hispanics, but he underperformed with them compared to his polling. bernie also does well with young black voters and young voters in general but young people just dont show up to vote.

i voted for sanders and have supported him since '16. the fact he couldnt get the votes proves that he didnt deserve the nomination though and that america is not yet accepting enough of progressive policy. sanders has pushed the party left in the last 4 years and has helped craft the current mainstream platform, which was his goal when initially running for potus in '16. being unable to convince the further left party in the country to vote for him does not inspire hope he could win in november while biden has generated record turnout in these primaries and dems in general have been voting in large numbers since the '18 primaries

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andel posted...

if bernie couldnt win over the majority of democratic voters why should he win? do you think primaries usually involve all candidates staying in until the convention? that literally never happens. if your argument is that other people dropping out hurt bernie welcome to every primary ever.

a candidate has to be able to consolidate the party to win a nomination.

also biden already has a history of delegating to others. unlike trump he would actually listen to experts

re: Bernie, his inability to gain a (majority and that is how the system works) might be a valid criticism if we had a tiered voting system. When Obama defeated Clinton, it was through super delegates. 2020 was on pace to be a test of the integrity of this system. Instead, with no majority on the forefront, the DNC outside of Sanders and Warren coalesced around Biden. So, it's pretty rare that a strategic move this obvious around such a declining candidate reeks.

If I lived in a swing state, I'd have a real conundrum on my hands and the least anyone can do is acknowledge that and the gaps voters have rather than lash out at anyone who presents unquestioning support for Biden as the only available option.

Re: Biden delegating, I could see that as a positive if this was a campaigning point. If they said, "look, we know this isn't who everyone wants, but we had to make a strategic move to remove Trump from office and preventing conservative appointees to the Supreme Court and lower courts," at least that would be a starting point. Then it would be something like, "here is our clear plan to bring voices to the table and competent leaders who will address the glaring problems our country has based on x.y.z. credentials," that would be the next point. I doubt either of those things will happen if anything up to now is an indication. I don't know if it's cynicism over the voters in swing states who they think are too dumb to vote for anyone but a singular strong, confident candidate, but in the same way this could easily crumble when 2020 Biden is exposed on a national stage as lacking the charisma and energy Trump has.

I digress, though. Saying that this is how it is does not inspire confidence. Now I think that a vote for Biden is a tacit vote for the system that got us here when two months ago the criticisms were just as valid. It is not democratic and it might not even work. It has proven to be impractical and it may even be immoral when there are other options we can pursue but don't. When will it be a good time to criticize the Democratic Party the two-party system for their obvious failures? When the Republicans become less crazy, less cheating, less propaganda-driven? I don't see it happening, so if not now, when the problems are so obvious, then when?

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The DNC do not care to beat Trump, just to stop Bernie.

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