Board 8 > Percussion Mafia Topic 8 - Day 4 starts here

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Panthera
04/13/20 9:52:41 PM
#52:


Crescent-Moon posted...
The logic that tracker is more dangerous than detective? That's asinine.

When Tange listed the roles he got, they didn't have alignment (same thing today you'll note). Someone pointed this out, don't remember who but I didn't pick up on it at first either. Which means he can't resolve motion detector or any other potential scum that claimed their real role name. He's noticeably weaker than a conventional detective.

masterplum posted...
Yeah, I'm not even going to fight it. I have a really good sense of when roles don't line up. And in this case I was 100% right that Balla was lying about his role.

He was just lying to protect himself. Argh

I mean I think my best defense is it was pretty obvious at the end that Balla wasn't going to get lynched and I wouldn't have pushed it that hard as scum. No way really to prove that. I'll try to figure out who scum is based on it but I wouldn't be surprised if I die today

"not even going to fight it"
"will try to figure out who scum is"
???

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masterplum
04/13/20 9:52:53 PM
#53:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Newsflash: Balla was obviously doctor. I went out of my way multiple times to justify the claim he made because of this.

Like, Balla should have probably just claimed his real role. There's no way scum didn't figure this out as well.

Yeah, I'm rusty. For some reason I got stuck on his actions not matching his role so he was 100% lying. I think 3 years go me probably would have picked up on that as well

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 9:53:01 PM
#54:


Panthera posted...
Only a little. He was being a lot less insightful than his usual self and even though he nuked Puns, he also pushed everyone to ignore and lynch Red who then flipped town and warned us to look at him. I didn't trust him overly much and low effort Chris is less valuable relative to scanners than usual Chris

My concern with Tange was that he kind of threw me off with how obsessed he was with Scare even after Balla's claim, that and that if Plum (or Uwnim, but that's less likely) is scum motion detector he can't solve it. I will admit I didn't think last night through as much as I usually would.
Chris changed from Red to Balla late in the day. If Red votes Balla, Balla's the one getting lynched.

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uwnim
04/13/20 9:53:04 PM
#55:


Tbh, I thought balla just read his role wrong.

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masterplum
04/13/20 9:53:43 PM
#56:


Panthera posted...
When Tange listed the roles he got, they didn't have alignment (same thing today you'll note). Someone pointed this out, don't remember who but I didn't pick up on it at first either. Which means he can't resolve motion detector or any other potential scum that claimed their real role name. He's noticeably weaker than a conventional detective.

"not even going to fight it"
"will try to figure out who scum is"
???

If you guys lynch me you have a good case on me. I'm not arguing against that. I'm not saying I'm giving up. That would be silly

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 9:54:01 PM
#57:


Panthera posted...
When Tange listed the roles he got, they didn't have alignment (same thing today you'll note). Someone pointed this out, don't remember who but I didn't pick up on it at first either. Which means he can't resolve motion detector or any other potential scum that claimed their real role name. He's noticeably weaker than a conventional detective.

"not even going to fight it"
"will try to figure out who scum is"
???
And in a game with a lot of weirdly named roles/claimed roles, Tange's role is still absolutely deadly.

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masterplum
04/13/20 9:54:40 PM
#58:


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Panthera
04/13/20 9:55:51 PM
#59:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Chris changed from Red to Balla late in the day. If Red votes Balla, Balla's the one getting lynched.

As the person who first suggested we b8 special Balla...yes, I was there. Balla's last minute post was super terrible, enough that anyone would jump on it. Chris had still spent the entire day pushing Red and telling people to ignore him because he was scum. I didn't hard read Chris as scum, but it was still enough to make me a little too paranoid

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DoubleTangicide
04/13/20 9:56:00 PM
#60:


masterplum posted...
Also who the hell claims cop as a survivor

I don't even


that was his role though

He was a survivor cop

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masterplum
04/13/20 9:56:45 PM
#61:


DoubleTangicide posted...
that was his role though

He was a survivor cop

...

You lie

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uwnim
04/13/20 9:57:27 PM
#62:


I still feel that was red's fault more than anything. If he'd have just let us into his head a little, he wouldn't have gotten lynched.

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Corrik7
04/13/20 9:57:49 PM
#63:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Tange is probably getting shot tonight after the obvious doctor got himself modkilled. It is possible he could be scum, but it would require him acting very out of character from everything I've ever seen from him.
I have something I wanna look over regarding this later on.

Crescent-Moon posted...
This is my current game theory. The modkill cost us a mislynch (The game would practically be over already if it didn't happen), but it means we can test MZero at some point. Given Corrik's claim that MZero has a bomb on him, this seems prudent. I don't think scum MZero fakes this and scum should never have a role that's unlynchable. Scum had a hyper bomb and town has no direct killing power. "Deathproof" doesn't make any sense to be scum. Two bombs on the scumteam doesn't sound right either. Even if he doesn't explode, I'm comfortable calling him solidly town if the lynch doesn't kill him and leaving him at that.

There is a bomb, but I don't know how it works. I am curious if it works upon lynch of set time or so on myself personally.

By the way, there is no bomb in regards to Sultan.

Crescent-Moon posted...
Wait a minute, these votes are wrong... Corrik never unvoted Hb before voting for Panthera. I'm not sure how this was entirely missed by everyone, which includes me at the time. Hb ended the day at 5 votes.
Wrong. Han doesn't require unvotes.

uwnim posted...
Besides scare's death confirming his scans, I went to Damion last night and he didn't move.
Yes and no.

I believe most of Scare's scans were likely legit, but there is some wiggle room that he could have lied. The fact scum shot him though means he likely gave legit ones. Scare as survivor should have given one result that was obviously fake so scum wouldn't have shot him. So, most likely all legit. But, not definite.

DoubleTangicide posted...
thought I added this at the end

Panthera came back with these options:
Bodyguard
Possessor
Jailkeeper

Color me surprised that Panthera isn't a RNG role. Surprised indeed. Who didn't know that was fake. Seriously.

Crescent-Moon posted...
Scare's flip is very interesting though... For there to be 6 scum now, this game violates the 25-33% anti-town rule.
Not necessarily.

I stated this before that... the Hyper Bomb was a scum detriment role. It made scum 1 for 1 with town. It's not even fair to really add it into the equation. So 7/20 is possible imo. 6/18 after the bomb goes off.

If Ben can make it 3 mislynches without being voted, then scum would have deserved that victory tbqh. But, otherwise it is just a 1 for 1 trade.

That said, it would be 6+1/20 now.

So 6 scum + 1 survivor in 20... but 5 scum + 1 survivor in 18. That sounds perfectly balanced to me. As we can see, the Survivor damaged scum immensely anyways if he gave all legit scans.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...
I do agree lea has looked very shady this game still suspicious of plum they way he came in just seemed super weird and very focused. Might need more of a read on DYL.

Very unlikely both mzero and lea are town. Scare says he scanned Lea town though. Lea would likely be godfather if scum then because doubtful scum shoots the cop if he wasn't giving legit results.


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Panthera
04/13/20 9:58:28 PM
#64:


Crescent-Moon posted...
And in a game with a lot of weirdly named roles/claimed roles, Tange's role is still absolutely deadly.

Yeah I'm not denying it's still a very useful role.

masterplum posted...
Oh and I got no motion targeting Lea last night

Why twice in a row on her?

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masterplum
04/13/20 9:59:21 PM
#65:


Panthera posted...
Yeah I'm not denying it's still a very useful role.

Why twice in a row on her?

I knew scare wouldn't 'visit' her this time. So I figured I would be in the clear and see if she caused the motion

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 9:59:28 PM
#66:


Actually, more on Panthera being "bodyguard" now.

Hb claimed a jack that contained the role he is now claiming.

But more importantly.. Why would you hide being a bodyguard by claiming a blatantly anti-town role when so many scanners are claimed? Scum is never going to shoot you for claiming bodyguard in this situation. You are doing an active disservice to town.

So basically we just lynch Panthera today and find out what possessor does.

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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:00:45 PM
#67:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Newsflash: Balla was obviously doctor. I went out of my way multiple times to justify the claim he made because of this.

Like, Balla should have probably just claimed his real role. There's no way scum didn't figure this out as well.
He caused confusion, especially with the last second oh btw comment. Like, he either had HB dead to rights or he left HB an opening. He chose to keep leaving the opening.

BTW, if HB used the rolestop on Chris, they would have resolved together at the same time and he wouldn't have known he was roleblocked either (cuz he wasn't). That said, he didn't target chris obviously cuz obviously the kill was blocked there.

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masterplum
04/13/20 10:01:26 PM
#68:


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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:01:58 PM
#69:


masterplum posted...
Also who the hell claims cop as a survivor

I don't even
He was cop. He just got greedy. You have to give an obviously wrong result to signal to scum you are lying at some point so they won't shoot you. Saying someone you scanned scum was innocent.

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:02:33 PM
#70:


Corrik, I'd like for your response to my Damion comments.

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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:03:08 PM
#71:


masterplum posted...
Yeah, I'm rusty. For some reason I got stuck on his actions not matching his role so he was 100% lying. I think 3 years go me probably would have picked up on that as well
While, I am not vouching for plum's alignment. I can tell you that he is completely stuck in the mentality that any lie means someone is scum for some reason. He has a very rudimentary style of mafia understanding when it comes to that.

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:03:50 PM
#72:


Corrik7 posted...
He was cop. He just got greedy. You have to give an obviously wrong result to signal to scum you are lying at some point so they won't shoot you. Saying someone you scanned scum was innocent.
He'd have to actually scan someone who scans as scum to pull that off. All he achieves by claiming a scum scan on town is killing town and himself.

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Panthera
04/13/20 10:04:25 PM
#73:


masterplum posted...
I knew scare wouldn't 'visit' her this time. So I figured I would be in the clear and see if she caused the motion

Oh right I mixed up what your first result was on her.

Crescent-Moon posted...
Actually, more on Panthera being "bodyguard" now.

Hb claimed a jack that contained the role he is now claiming.

But more importantly.. Why would you hide being a bodyguard by claiming a blatantly anti-town role when so many scanners are claimed? Scum is never going to shoot you for claiming bodyguard in this situation. You are doing an active disservice to town.

So basically we just lynch Panthera today and find out what possessor does.

Because scum can roleblock people...?

Like sure they will likely prioritize blocking scanners, but if they happen to have reason to fear one specific scanner, they can guarantee a kill on him by blocking me that they can't if they think I'm a random townie who is going to get himself mislynched anyway.

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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:05:16 PM
#74:


Crescent-Moon posted...
He'd have to actually scan someone who scans as scum to pull that off. All he achieves by claiming a scum scan on town is killing town and himself.
Duh. That's why you don't claim until you have a scan to pull it off.

Anyways, going back to read your damien stuff.

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:05:54 PM
#75:


Corrik7 posted...
Duh. That's why you don't claim until you have a scan to pull it off.

Anyways, going back to read your damien stuff.
He claimed because he was pressured into claiming.

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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:06:07 PM
#76:


Panthera posted...
Oh right I mixed up what your first result was on her.

Because scum can roleblock people...?

Like sure they will likely prioritize blocking scanners, but if they happen to have reason to fear one specific scanner, they can guarantee a kill on him by blocking me that they can't if they think I'm a random townie who is going to get himself mislynched anyway.
Only roleblock claimed all game was explained by the rolestop. No roleblocker.

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:06:41 PM
#77:


Panthera posted...
Oh right I mixed up what your first result was on her.

Because scum can roleblock people...?

Like sure they will likely prioritize blocking scanners, but if they happen to have reason to fear one specific scanner, they can guarantee a kill on him by blocking me that they can't if they think I'm a random townie who is going to get himself mislynched anyway.
In a game where no one has ever claimed blocked.

And scum STILL wouldn't roleblock you. Waste if an action.

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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:07:28 PM
#78:


Crescent-Moon posted...
And seriously notepad is awful for holding quotes...

But I'm going to elaborate on this separately:

DamionDL posted...

##Vote: Lea

My gut is saying this nightmare of Lea posting is Scum trying to make sure Puns is lynched. I don't like it.

Damion's last post of day 1, with 15 minutes left in the day, was a splinter onto Lea. He says it's because Lea's trying to get Puns lynched, while Lea is on Panthera. The vote looks bad in a vacuum. The reasoning is awkward and isn't explained well. You know what though? This post is on the right track. Scum wanted Puns lynched over Panthera. This post feels like it's too on the money about scum's gameplan to have come from scum. This post singlehandedly greatly improved my stance on Damion.

This is something I found from day 1. This makes me think Damion is town.
This?

It sounds flimsy to me.

I like Damien being town simply for the random ass Vanilla role claim though.

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:08:25 PM
#79:


I don't think scum draws attention to scum's plans to lynch Puns instead of Panthera.

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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:08:46 PM
#80:


Okay. Regarding Tange. Can someone list me all of Tange's claimed scans.

Like we got,
Sultan
Blocked
Panthera today

Right?

Sultan's scan came after Sultan already claimed yes?


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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:09:18 PM
#81:


Sultan claimed a track today on Scare, for some reason.

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:09:47 PM
#82:


Corrik7 posted...
Okay. Regarding Tange. Can someone list me all of Tange's claimed scans.

Like we got,
Sultan
Blocked
Panthera today

Right?

Sultan's scan came after Sultan already claimed yes?
Sultan claimed day 1. The scan was night 1.

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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:10:58 PM
#83:


Crescent-Moon posted...
I don't think scum draws attention to scum's plans to lynch Puns instead of Panthera.
Maybe. But, I don't think it extrapolates to your desired result of him thinks Puns and Panthera are both scum and scum prefers Puns lynched over Panthera.

I believe he said it in the way that he believes Panthera and Puns are both Town and Lea is scum who wants Puns lynched.

Otherwise, why wouldn't he have voted Panthera there?

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TheSultanOfSlam
04/13/20 10:12:30 PM
#84:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Sultan claimed a track today on Scare, for some reason.

Well my plan was to either confirm or deny scare i was a bit skeptical

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:12:59 PM
#85:


Like, we know they set up Puns to die so at least Hb and Panthera would look better.

Why does scum call attention to Lea, who's currently voting Panthera, as trying to get Puns lynched?

Scum generally does not publicly conspiracy theory their own plans.

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:14:16 PM
#86:


Corrik7 posted...
Maybe. But, I don't think it extrapolates to your desired result of him thinks Puns and Panthera are both scum and scum prefers Puns lynched over Panthera.

I believe he said it in the way that he believes Panthera and Puns are both Town and Lea is scum who wants Puns lynched.

Otherwise, why wouldn't he have voted Panthera there?
No, he doesn't say both are scum. He says scum is trying to get Puns lynched.

This assertion is completely on the nose. It's too on the nose for me to think it came from scum.

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DoubleTangicide
04/13/20 10:15:05 PM
#87:


masterplum posted...
...

You lie

.....

not sure if srs

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Panthera
04/13/20 10:15:16 PM
#88:


Crescent-Moon posted...
In a game where no one has ever claimed blocked.

And scum STILL wouldn't roleblock you. Waste if an action.

I didn't believe that scum literally had no blocker in a game with this much town power (and I was at least sort of right, since HB flipped with a roleblock). I didn't think through the claims of others on that front (I think the business with Tange failing on Scare had already come up before I claimed...I'll be honest, I don't actually remember my thought process at the time perfectly), I just thought about my own role.

And scum would roleblock me based on what their team is. I've fucked up in the past in thinking of how scum will value certain roles/analyze certain threats, I'm aware that it's not always as simple as looking at the strength of the roles. If their team counters some of the scanners (it pretty much has to have something crazy to balance out the town power, you've even brought that up yourself which has me a little unnerved by it not occurring to you here), they might only have to legitimately fear one of them. Which means blocking me + killing that one would be their optimal strategy to ensure their biggest threat is removed permanently.

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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:15:29 PM
#89:


Crescent-Moon posted...
Sultan claimed day 1. The scan was night 1.
Okay. There is absolutely 1 hole in this theory and I am gonna get to it. But, this is the theory as is.

  1. Tange claims a scan on someone who he knows is town and is already claimed. Sultan. To "Confirm" his role.
  2. Tange claims the roles are up to double the roles in the game his scan can come back with and with no alignments. This conveniently let's him make up the other roles coming back and not able to be found as phony if a single role doesn't come back as he has listed. (Notice how no random ass roles have come back as legit in his 2 successful scans? - Though to be fair, the only possible role that could come back to confirm him as detective would have been rolling your role, Crescent).
  3. Panthera is scum. Tange claims the scan on Panthera to bury Panthera who 100% was dying today already for reasons I stated yesterday. Tange confirms as town?


Okay, now for the 1 hole. Why would Tange and HB both claim to have gone to scare last night? They both had to of because otherwise they would have assumed a single roleblock and not known to act like the other did for the rolestop (unless pure coincidence fuckery).

So, I think Tange is pretty much confirmed town off the both to Scare night 2 thing. But, if it wasn't for that, I would be mightily suspicious. So, yeah, Tange is pretty much Town tho.

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DoubleTangicide
04/13/20 10:15:53 PM
#90:


Corrik7 posted...
Okay. Regarding Tange. Can someone list me all of Tange's claimed scans.

Like we got,
Sultan
Blocked
Panthera today

Right?

Sultan's scan came after Sultan already claimed yes?


all of this is correct. The blocked night I attempted to scan scare

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:15:58 PM
#91:


We had 6 claimed scanners. Scum is not going to roleblock a bodyguard claim.

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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:16:52 PM
#92:


Crescent-Moon posted...
No, he doesn't say both are scum. He says scum is trying to get Puns lynched.

This assertion is completely on the nose. It's too on the nose for me to think it came from scum.

Eh, I just don't agree with ya on it. I have Damien town for other reasons.

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:18:09 PM
#93:


I had absolutely no read on Damion prior to last night.

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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:18:55 PM
#94:


Panthera posted...
I didn't believe that scum literally had no blocker in a game with this much town power (and I was at least sort of right, since HB flipped with a roleblock). I didn't think through the claims of others on that front (I think the business with Tange failing on Scare had already come up before I claimed...I'll be honest, I don't actually remember my thought process at the time perfectly), I just thought about my own role.

And scum would roleblock me based on what their team is. I've fucked up in the past in thinking of how scum will value certain roles/analyze certain threats, I'm aware that it's not always as simple as looking at the strength of the roles. If their team counters some of the scanners (it pretty much has to have something crazy to balance out the town power, you've even brought that up yourself which has me a little unnerved by it not occurring to you here), they might only have to legitimately fear one of them. Which means blocking me + killing that one would be their optimal strategy to ensure their biggest threat is removed permanently.
I kind of knew you were scum when you tried to downplay your mafia ability to me, Panthera. You know how much I value you by my side in mafia as town. You telling me you suck to my face was devastating because I knew you were only saying it because you were scum. = (

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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:19:34 PM
#95:


I just can't see scum Tange suicide charging Scare. My opinion of Tange would drastically change if he were scum.

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I'm a kitty cat and I'm ok. I prowl all night and I sleep all day
She's a kitty cat and she's ok. She prowls all night and she sleeps all day
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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:20:01 PM
#96:


Anyways back to setup. The setup is probably 6+1/20.

The hyperbomb is a 1 for 1 which makes it 5+1/18.

Meaning we have Panth and 1 more left.

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Xbox Live User Name - Corrik
Currently playing: Spider-Man (PS4), Quantum Break (X1)
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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:20:47 PM
#97:


Corrik7 posted...
Anyways back to setup. The setup is probably 6+1/20.

The hyperbomb is a 1 for 1 which makes it 5+1/18.

Meaning we have Panth and 1 more left.
That would be two more left.

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I'm a kitty cat and I'm ok. I prowl all night and I sleep all day
She's a kitty cat and she's ok. She prowls all night and she sleeps all day
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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:21:05 PM
#98:


There is 3 dead scum, Crescent...

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Xbox Live User Name - Corrik
Currently playing: Spider-Man (PS4), Quantum Break (X1)
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Corrik7
04/13/20 10:21:23 PM
#99:


Oh... duh... I'm an idiot. So yeah, Panth + 2 more left.

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Xbox Live User Name - Corrik
Currently playing: Spider-Man (PS4), Quantum Break (X1)
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Crescent-Moon
04/13/20 10:21:45 PM
#100:


Corrik7 posted...
There is 3 dead scum, Crescent...
And you're saying 6 scum+survivor. Panthera makes 4 scum.

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I'm a kitty cat and I'm ok. I prowl all night and I sleep all day
She's a kitty cat and she's ok. She prowls all night and she sleeps all day
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Panthera
04/13/20 10:21:46 PM
#101:


Crescent-Moon posted...
We had 6 claimed scanners. Scum is not going to roleblock a bodyguard claim.

Scum also wasn't going to bus their godfather for no reason in a certain other game I played in, but it turns out they had another one that was also immune to other scans too so they had no reason not to.

Corrik7 posted...
I kind of knew you were scum when you tried to downplay your mafia ability to me, Panthera. You know how much I value you by my side in mafia as town. You telling me you suck to my face was devastating because I knew you were only saying it because you were scum. = (

I know you always praise me Corrik, but I'm pretty sure you also know I always am hyper-critical of myself

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Meow!
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