Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 293: LIBERATE BOARD 8!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Didn't Canada close their borders too, or was that just the US/Canada border?

Someone should accuse Trump of copying Canada. Maybe it would get him to reverse course.

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Most of the country still has a job for now. And people who lost theirs need to get a new job. This way they won't have to compete with immigrants for them.

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red sox 777 posted...

It has nothing to do with virus transmission. He's not blocking tourists, only immigrants. This is about protecting American jobs.

lmao what jobs

people arent being laid off so someone else can be hired for less, the jobs are just disappearing

And as always, they took our jobs is dumb as fuck because immigrants increase demand for products/services as well.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

lmao what jobs

people arent being laid off so someone else can be hired for less, the jobs are just disappearing

And as always, they took our jobs is dumb as fuck because immigrants increase demand for products/services as well.

The jobs will come back, and when they do, we want them filled with Americans, at as high a wage as possible.

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Corrik7 posted...

It's just a little bit less insane than loving the situation so you could tout the Green New Deal. Imo.

I don't think it can help much, but he states his reasons. To protect jobs for Americans and to lessen the spread of Coronavirus via immigration.

Not gonna have much of an effect imo.

Yeah, that later part is the issue. I'm against shutting down immigration, but if there was a logical argument it could help I could at least see the reason behind it.

Unless you plan to keep the economy closed down the same amount of time, this isn't going to really halt the spread at all. It is everywhere in the US now. He would've had to do this like 6 weeks ago.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Didn't Canada close their borders too, or was that just the US/Canada border?

Someone should accuse Trump of copying Canada. Maybe it would get him to reverse course.

I think everything the US and Canada have done with that border has been by mutual agreement. Which makes sense because I think passage across that border is seen as a fundamental right basically by people who live close to it on either side. It would send a really bad message if the US or Canada barred the other's citizens from entering without reaching a mutual agreement first.

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Since I posted about this reddit post which found that a bunch of the liberateX websites were all set up by the same person, I need to post this followup: they were registered by the same person, but it was a guy trying to poach URLs to prevent the actual protestors from using them.

https://twitter.com/alibreland/status/1252037486295031808?s=21

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Alright, Democrats, let's make a deal. We don't block all immigration......and we cancel payroll tax. As long as payroll tax isn't charged immigration can continue, if it gets charged immigration stops. The tax savings will compensate Americans for lower wages from competing with immigrants.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Since I posted about this reddit post which found that a bunch of the liberateX websites were all set up by the same person, I need to post this followup: they were registered by the same person, but it was a guy trying to poach URLs to prevent the actual protestors from using them.

https://twitter.com/alibreland/status/1252037486295031808?s=21

At this point it's getting very very hard to tell what is fake news and what is not.

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I heard that Trudeau closed the border by calling up Pence, having him bring the idea up to Trump, having Trump contact him, then praising Trump for the idea

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I could also verify from my Facebook feed that like...60-75% of conservatives (and like 5-10% of liberals, honestly) had already posted stuff like that prior to the protests starting.

Never underestimate the propensity for people to be dumb on their own!

I'm sure there is some outside influence going on, but the seeds of the idea were already there for some time.

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JeffreyRaze posted...

I heard that Trudeau closed the border by calling up Pence, having him bring the idea up to Trump, having Trump contact him, then praising Trump for the idea

This is a straight up Dwight Schrute tactic from The Office.

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The Coronavirus seems to cross party lines a lot as far as my news feeds go on facebook.

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red sox 777 posted...

The jobs will come back, and when they do, we want them filled with Americans, at as high a wage as possible.

why?

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red sox 777 posted...

Biden winning people who dislike both candidates 60-10 is the really interesting one here. Trump absolutely crushed this group against Hillary, winning something like 70-30. That's how he won the election since this group was unusually large as we had the 2 most unpopular candidates for president ever.

This is something I've been really bummed out by. I might be biased since my dad is a big fan of Hillary, but while there were plenty of genuine arguments to make against her, I feel like a lot of people were just biased against her from the start simply because they felt she already had her time in the spotlight, due to being a very politically active First Lady even after her husband left office. So people were just going like "better the unknown than the devil we know". I guess now maybe a lot of people who voted for Trump feel let down by him? We'll see. One could go on and on about this particular topic.


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https://twitter.com/PACRONYM/status/1252363917407301634

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Immigrants are Americans.
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pyresword posted...

Immigrants are Americans.

Not according to this administration!

1.2 million US Citizens won't get coronavirus checks because their spouse is an immigrant who lacks a SSN and they file taxes jointly: https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-04-20/u-s-citizens-coronavirus-stimulus-checks-spouses-immigrants

They put an exception in if one of the spouses is a member of the Armed Forces which clearly shows it was a deliberate cut-out because they were aware of this situation and it's not a "oh whoops forgot about that scenario" thing.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

why?

What do you mean? We want Americans to have jobs and be paid more. Is that controversial?

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red sox 777 posted...

What do you mean? We want Americans to have jobs and be paid more. Is that controversial?

To some liberals, yes.

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Corrik7 posted...

To some liberals, yes.

Literally the ones fighting for higher wages. Sit down.

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red sox 777 posted...

What do you mean? We want Americans to have jobs and be paid more. Is that controversial?

the implication that immigrants should be treated as second class citizens is pretty controversial, yes.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

the implication that immigrants should be treated as second class citizens is pretty controversial, yes.

Uh, they aren't citizens at all. Otherwise they wouldn't be counted as immigrants for purposes of an order suspending immigration.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Literally the ones fighting for higher wages. Sit down.

We want Americans to have jobs and be paid more.

Nope. Sorry, bud. Liberals have been fighting for raising minimum wages, not all wages, which come at the cost of eliminating jobs and middle class purchasing power.

And, especially not fighting for American jobs. We have many liberals outright fighting for illegal immigrants. AOC said she will vote down the next relief bill because it doesn't do anything for illegal immigrants. Think about that. Voting down an American relief bill for the same of illegal immigrants.

Not to mention that for how long liberals said that we should be okay with outsourced jobs from trade deals because these are jobs Americans don't want and it's better for the slave labor countries to make the products so it's cheaper products for Americans? Not the supply chains are in shambles. We can't produce because we let the jobs go. I wonder if Americans wants those jobs right now. I am willing to bet they do. But, liberals were too busy living their globalist dream and wanting to pick and choose what jobs they wanted because everything is NIMBY to them.

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Are you seriously all wages matter-ing this? Holy shit you're hollow.

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Well first off the relief bills are garbage compared to the rest of the world so really AOC can do whatever she likes as far as I am concerned, also a protest vote which she knows.

Secondly I believe it is called 'fighting for human beings.' They are humans, Corrik. Made of flesh and blood. They have dreams just like you and I.

Also I admit I find it pointless talking economic theory (with most of this thread) because in no way does raising the basement for wages not cause wages to rise appropriately.

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I mean, as the Texas LtGov recently told us: "There are more important things than living"

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Well first off the relief bills are garbage compared to the rest of the world so really AOC can do whatever she likes as far as I am concerned, also a protest vote which she knows.

Secondly I believe it is called 'fighting for human beings.' They are humans, Corrik. Made of flesh and blood. They have dreams just like you and I.

Also I admit I find it pointless talking economic theory (with most of this thread) because in no way does raising the basement for wages not cause wages to rise appropriately.

It doesn't. Most businesses can't afford to just flat increase their wages $6 an hour or something overnight. It causes job losses and job devaluation. Unions don't negotiate at the drop of a hat and surely don't negotiate against other trades. They negotiate against their market and job conditions.

Not a single American citizen is worth more than another American citizen as far as the citizenry is concerned to the government. Every single American citizen is worth more than an illegal immigrants / non-citizen as far as the government is concerned. We are not the world government. We are not the world police. It is the United States government. That has a responsibility to its citizens. You are damned right that all wages matter. That all US citizens matter. We shouldn't be picking and choosing citizens to support over others.

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FFDragon posted...

I mean, as the Texas LtGov recently told us: "There are more important things than living"

There are more important things in the big picture than living for humanity and your country and your family. You can't be scared to fight for what is for the best for those things.

Didn't you ever see Braveheart?

Did you ever read about ww1 or 2?

I meant he is clearly saying that, but you cut the context out.

He isn't saying to go die.

The question for every governor and president and so on is... What preserves more American citizens lives. If Texas feels that it saves more lives in their state to do what they say, then so be it. Everyone will be watching to see if it seems to be panning out to use for more data to make the same decisions in their own states.

Texas' responsibility is to the residents of Texas. We will see how they manage. I think we should be hoping that Texas pans out well. Not hoping for their doom and failure.

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Corrik7 posted...

We shouldn't be picking and choosing citizens to support over others.

Thats what weve been doing for the entirety of this countrys history though

Im still baffled as to why you think the system isnt fundamentally broken
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I'm happy with my governor. Went out and bought a shit ton of tests from South Korea on his own and is actively handling this the right way.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Thats what weve been doing for the entirety of this countrys history though

Im still baffled as to why you think the system isnt fundamentally broken

Whatever fundamentally helps the most should always be the decision. Figuring out what way does will always be a debate though because we can't see the future. We can only estimate it.

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https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1252654239727247361

Starting to revise my position re: refugees.

It's a good thing the west imported all of these people, because they are the only ones willing to stand up and fight back against government tyranny and oppression.

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Corrik7 posted...

Whatever fundamentally helps the most should always be the decision. Figuring out what way does will always be a debate though because we can't see the future. We can only estimate it.

My point is that our government has never been about what fundamentally helps the most by anyones metric. Its ALWAYS been about picking and choosing citizens to prioritize
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Jakyl25 posted...

My point is that our government has never been about what fundamentally helps the most by anyones metric. Its ALWAYS been about picking and choosing citizens to prioritize

Is that true or is that because you disagree on what the best path forward to help the most citizens is?

I mean, if you at any point championed for benefits to illegal immigrants, it calls into question your viewpoint on many things because it already shows your utmost goal is not the citizenship that the government exists to serve.

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As far as I can tell, the only reason Americans are even contemplating the notion of sacrificing themselves for the economy is because other technological nations have far fewer people and thus their leaders tend to feel more pressure to preserve lives, while the only other two countries with more people than America are China and India which are developing nations whose cultures might also come into play.

Great. The dumbest part is that Trump is doing so much to make America's global situation worse, and yet fear of America no longer being "great" is precisely what got him elected. It's almost as if he cares more about himself than anything else!

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Corrik7 posted...

I mean, if you at any point championed for benefits to illegal immigrants, it calls into question your viewpoint on many things because it already shows your utmost goal is not the citizenship that the government exists to serve.

Actual question: If I say I want to help my family, do you think that means I dont want anyone else to get help?


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Corrik7 posted...

Is that true or is that because you disagree on what the best path forward to help the most citizens is?

I mean, if you at any point championed for benefits to illegal immigrants, it calls into question your viewpoint on many things because it already shows your utmost goal is not the citizenship that the government exists to serve.

Its true because politicians have always been corrupt

And I champion equal benefits for illegal immigrants because their well-being is a boon for everyone living here, citizen or not, just like every citizens well-being is a boon for other citizens
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Like, Corrik, do you honestly believe that the majority of people that have ever served in the US government were well-meaning, trying to do whats best for the country first and foremost?

I think thats our fundamental disagreement. Were probably 90% apart on our estimates of how many were/are like that.
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I mean the entire history of civil rights and suffrage were the government having to be dragged kicking and screaming into actually providing even the most basic rights and dignities to entire segments of the population - hell, in the case of women's suffrage to the majority of the population. And even then a good chunk of the country does all it can to subvert it where possible.

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xp1337 posted...

I mean the entire history of civil rights and suffrage were the government having to be dragged kicking and screaming into actually providing even the most basic rights and dignities to entire segments of the population - hell, in the case of women's suffrage to the majority of the population. And even then a good chunk of the country does all it can to subvert it where possible.

Corrik would argue that those people just thought race-based slavery was the best thing for the population as a whole and were only proven wrong in hindsight
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Jakyl25 posted...

Like, Corrik, do you honestly believe that the majority of people that have ever served in the US government were well-meaning, trying to do whats best for the country first and foremost?

I think thats our fundamental disagreement. Were probably 90% apart on our estimates of how many were/are like that.

Of course the people are well meaning. It is the power that corrupts.

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red sox 777 posted...

Of course the people are well meaning. It is the power that corrupts.

I actually kind of disagree with that

I think most politicians value money over power

Its just the ones who value power the most that REALLY rise through the ranks
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Jakyl25 posted...

I actually kind of disagree with that

I think most politicians value money over power

Its just the ones who value power the most that REALLY rise through the ranks

I didn't mean it so much in that sense. I think most of the reason government produces bad results is that power blinds people like Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. They think that government - that power - is the solution to everything. So they want a top down structure with them in charge.

If you become more enlightened and realize that power is not a means, it is an end - then you do better.

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https://twitter.com/geoffrbennett/status/1252635609937711104?s=21

Whoops
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/geoffrbennett/status/1252635609937711104?s=21

Whoops

I hope they controlled for the fact that the more sick someone is, they more likely they are to try unproven treatments.

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https://twitter.com/ericliptonnyt/status/1252673729563447297?s=21
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red sox 777 posted...

I hope they controlled for the fact that the more sick someone is, they more likely they are to try unproven treatments.

By the authors' own admission the goal of the study seems to be more in line with rapidly obtaining information than with fully rigorous control of the test population. (ie. They have knowingly sacrificed scientific rigor in exchange for speed of obtaining results--which would obviously be terrible practice in ordinary circumstances.) However, the study does only consider patients who were already hospitalized. So if you're worried about very mild or asymptomatic cases being considered in the analysis, that didn't happen.

From the study:

Multiple prospective, randomized trials of hydroxychloroquine are now underway and will, in due course, provide valuable information about safety and efficacy. However, given its increasingly widespread use, not only as therapy but also as prophylaxis for Covid-19, there is a great and immediate need to obtain insights into the clinical outcomes among patients currently treated with hydroxychloroquine, particularly because of the non-negligible toxicities associated with its use.

We performed a retrospective analysis of data from patients hospitalized with confirmed SARSCoV-2 infection in all United States Veterans Health Administration medical centers until April 11, 2020. Patients were categorized based on their exposure to hydroxychloroquine alone (HC) or with azithromycin (HC+AZ) as treatments in addition to standard supportive management for Covid-19.

To be clear, I don't think this fully addresses your concern, and I don't think the authors did any control other than what I've already mentioned.
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https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1252569539788918784?s=21


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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1252569539788918784?s=21

umm yeah literally anyone would. She is a free win. She has no interest though.

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