Poll of the Day > WAlT, MINECRAFT LOST???? TO PERSONA????

(+) Yeah! (+)

wwinterj25 posted...

It actually is. You create things from scratch. Any creation game is basically what Minecraft is. Also again Persona 5 is the better game regardless of your justifications to convince yourself otherwise

yes, and all games are RPGs because you "play a role"...

Minecraft and SimCity are extremely dissimilar. you'd have to broaden your categories all the way down to "constructive" and "non-constructive" games or something to even get them in the same box at all.

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Monopoman posted...

The game that Minecraft took the most from was Dwarf Fortress a free text based game that lets you do most of the stuff you can do in Minecraft.

The creator of Minecraft himself admits this fact and will say the same damn thing. Minecraft was more appealing because it was in first person and it wasn't as hard as DF or didn't require a huge time commitment to learn like DF. Minecraft does take effort to understand everything, but DF is about 3-4 times as hard to learn.

It still has far more innovation than Persona 5. The point is that Persona 5 as a game is good, but takes far more from the genre than it gave. Minecraft might have had roots from another game, but without it the genre wouldnt be where it is today.

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wwinterj25 posted...

It actually is. You create things from scratch. Any creation game is basically what Minecraft is. Also again Persona 5 is the better game regardless of your justifications to convince yourself otherwise

This is such a stupid response it doesnt even dignify me tearing it down.

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Sahuagin posted...

yes, and all games are RPGs because you "play a role"...

You don't play a role in all games though so try again.

Minecraft and SimCity are extremely dissimilar.

Nah. They are both creation games.

aurick79 posted...

It still has far more innovation than Persona 5. The point is that Persona 5 as a game is good, but takes far more from the genre than it gave. Minecraft might have had roots from another game, but without it the genre wouldnt be where it is today.

https://i.imgur.com/gT83EWF.gif

aurick79 posted...

This is such a stupid response it doesnt even dignify me tearing it down.

It's a correct response as you're wrong. Thanks for not bothering carrying on your wrong argument.
Pro tip: You can put multiple quotes in the same post. No need to make multiple posts.

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wwinterj25 posted...

Nah. They are both creation games.

Minecraft is creation/survival/exploration, SimCity is management. They both involve creating stuff at a very fundamental level, but the underlying game mechanics (namely the conflicts that drive the actions of the player) are radically different.

Now, saying that Minecraft created the entire genre of sandbox building isn't very accurate. As mentioned above, Dwarf Fortress did a similar thing years earlier, just not nearly as accessibly (people like modern conveniences like GUI's in their games). There are also even older examples than that, such as 1998's Lego Creator (googling that to find the release date and seeing pictures was a huge hit of nostalgia. Hoo boy.). Minecraft's significance is not that it created the genre, but that it popularized it, and more significantly, indie games as a whole.

wwinterj25 posted...

You don't play a role in all games though so try again.

No, you very much do. Sometimes that role is a faceless "hand of god" that just manipulates stuff toward some goal, but the player plays a role of some sort in every single game. If you're not playing a role, you're just watching it happen (though even then, "observer" is also a role).

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adjl posted...

They both involve creating stuff at a very fundamental level

I'm happy you agree.

adjl posted...

Minecraft's significance is not that it created the genre, but that it popularized it, and more significantly, indie games as a whole.

Yet Persona 5 is STILL better.

adjl posted...

If you're not playing a role, you're just watching it happen (though even then, "observer" is also a role).

So you're saying watching something is having a role? Role Playing Movies sounds hot.

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wwinterj25 posted...

I'm happy you agree.

I'll take this as an admission that you said something ridiculous and are no longer capable of defending your position.

wwinterj25 posted...

So you're saying watching something is having a role?

Yep. That is what the word means, after all. This is why taking the term at its face value in defining game genres is absurd.

wwinterj25 posted...

Yet Persona 5 is STILL better.

Not having played it, I can't comment, but I'm not going to disagree. That's a subjective assessment, after all, and being such radically different games, strong preferences between them based on genre preferences are pretty inevitable. However, that doesn't change the fact that Minecraft is orders of magnitude more influential and significant to gaming as a whole. That doesn't mean it should win this contest (you get the occasional person suggesting that something else should win on the basis of its cultural significance, which can be thoroughly shot down because Minecraft dwarfs everything else in that regard), since that's not what the contest is asking people to vote on, but Minecraft's cultural significance is objectively undeniable.

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adjl posted...

I'll take this as an admission that you said something ridiculous and are no longer capable of defending your position.

You can take it anyway you want man. I don't judge. Just know though that I'm not wrong.

Yep. That is what the word means, after all. This is why taking the term at its face value in defining game genres is absurd.

Who's defining game genres? Minecraft is a creation game as acknowledged by yourself. I see nothing to debate here.

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wwinterj25 posted...

You can take it anyway you want man. I don't judge. Just know though that I'm not wrong.

If you're not wrong, then you should be able to defend your position. If you won't defend your position, then the only logical conclusion is that you don't actually believe that you aren't wrong, meaning nobody else has any reason to believe that.

wwinterj25 posted...

Who's defining game genres?

aurick79 posted...

Sim City is not the same genre as Minecraft

wwinterj25 posted...

It actually is. You create things from scratch. Any creation game is basically what Minecraft is.

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adjl posted...

If you're not wrong, then you should be able to defend your position. If you won't defend your position, then the only logical conclusion is that you don't actually believe that you aren't wrong, meaning nobody else has any reason to believe that.

Minecraft is a creation game. You acknowledged that yourself. Nothing more to be said on that matter.
Edit: *Waits for smart ass response that changes nothing.*

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wwinterj25 posted...

Minecraft is a creation game. You acknowledged that yourself. Nothing more to be said on that matter.
Edit: *Waits for smart ass response that changes nothing.*

If any game in which you create stuff is a "creation game," then any game in which you play a role is a role-playing game and any game in which you fight is a fighting game. This is the analogy you missed the point of earlier, and the logical extension of the premise you presented. Your definition of the genre is so reductionist as to render the genre label meaningless.

Broadly, if you're going to label games with genres, ask yourself the following question: "Do I have reason to expect that somebody who enjoys other games in this genre will enjoy the game I'm trying to label with the genre?" As a concept, genres group media that share similar elements, allowing somebody to make predictions about how much enjoyment and what sort of experience to expect by considering their experiences with other examples of the genre.

Somebody who likes SimCity can - based on that example of their tastes - be expected to enjoy Cities: Skylines, Frostpunk, Rimworld, Prison Architect, and other examples of management games that are structured similarly, employ similar game mechanics, and provide similar challenges and goals. Somebody who likes SimCity cannot - based on that example of their tastes - be expected to enjoy Minecraft, as it is not structured similarly, does not employ similar game mechanics, and does not provide similar challenges. As such, labelling them with the same genre based on such fundamental conceptual similarities as "they both involve creating stuff" fails to do what genre labels are supposed to do.

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adjl posted...

If any game in which you create stuff is a "creation game," then any game in which you play a role is a role-playing game and any game in which you fight is a fighting game. This is the analogy you missed the point of earlier, and the logical extension of the premise you presented. Your definition of the genre is so reductionist as to render the genre label meaningless.

Broadly, if you're going to label games with genres, ask yourself the following question: "Do I have reason to expect that somebody who enjoys other games in this genre will enjoy the game I'm trying to label with the genre?" As a concept, genres group media that share similar elements, allowing somebody to make predictions about how much enjoyment and what sort of experience to expect by considering their experiences with other examples of the genre.

Somebody who likes SimCity can - based on that example of their tastes - be expected to enjoy Cities: Skylines, Frostpunk, Rimworld, Prison Architect, and other examples of management games that are structured similarly, employ similar game mechanics, and provide similar challenges and goals. Somebody who likes SimCity cannot - based on that example of their tastes - be expected to enjoy Minecraft, as it is not structured similarly, does not employ similar game mechanics, and does not provide similar challenges. As such, labelling them with the same genre based on such fundamental conceptual similarities as "they both involve creating stuff" fails to do what genre labels are supposed to do.

adjl whats your favorite song to sing

I thought I got into Minecraft really late.

But then I went back and played again for the first time in a few years and discovered features the game needed at launch.

adjl posted...

-snip-

I know you post a lot of stupid stuff but fuck me this one takes the biscuit.

OniRonin posted...

adjl whats your favorite song to sing

Probably this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMEDpykB8Ls

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Minecraft is a meme while Persona 5 is a good game.

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jbomb1234 posted...

Minecraft is a meme while Persona 5 is a good game.

Exactly.

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Yea, Persona is immensely overrated. Good game sure, but not even better than SMT IV by a mile. Let alone such a defining and influential game like MInecraft.

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wwinterj25 posted...

I know you post a lot of stupid stuff but f*** me this one takes the biscuit.

Then by all means, prove me wrong. Should be easy, if it's so stupid.

NeoSioType posted...

I thought I got into Minecraft really late.

But then I went back and played again for the first time in a few years and discovered features the game needed at launch.

I haven't tried it lately, but I know a lot of the recent updates have basically just added stuff people have been modding into the game for years, which I'm happy with. The vanilla game wasn't bad, by any means, but I always found it so dull and aimless without throwing a bunch of mods into it. Modding it, however, made for a fantastic time that's occupied me for thousands of hours over the years.

OniRonin posted...

adjl whats your favorite song to sing

Good question. I've sung rather a lot in the past decade or so of choirs; it's hard to narrow down favourites out of all of that. Most memorable is probably The Messiah, though obviously calling that a "song" is less than consistent with how musical pieces are labelled.

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wwinterj25 posted...

Minecraft is a creation game. You acknowledged that yourself. Nothing more to be said on that matter.
Edit: *Waits for smart ass response that changes nothing.*

Sim city is not a creation game. It is a city management game. Determining to put an industrial, residential, or commercial block down is for the purpose of trying to make the city the most efficient thing it possibly can. You need to balance the needs of the people with your needs as mayor to have an income to keep the city going.

There are other games in the city management genre that do the same thing. Minecraft does none of those things. There is no management of taxes. There is no balancing pollution and the needs to have jobs.

At the same time, there is no crafting in Sim City. You dont need to create a portal to another world to pick up materials in order to try to craft certain potions.

If you want to say that Persona 5 is a better game than Minecraft, and not just another JRPG like all the other JRPGs that have been released over the past 20 whatever years, then you need to back up your argument with more than its a better game.

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jbomb1234 posted...

Minecraft is a meme while Persona 5 is a good game.

If you are going to say such a thing, back it up - what makes Persona 5 better than every other JRPG out there? What makes Minecraft a meme?

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aurick79 posted...

If you want to say that Persona 5 is a better game than Minecraft, and not just another JRPG like all the other JRPGs that have been released over the past 20 whatever years, then you need to back up your argument with more than its a better game.

Don't forget the poll results. You know the very thing you're clearly salty af about.
Edit: Oh and this:

https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/persona-5
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/minecraft

As you can see the userscore is higher for Persona 5. It's even higher for Persona 5 The Royal. Sure metacritic isn't the be all and end all but it does prove my point. Face it. The better game won here.

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adjl posted...

Yep. That is what the word means, after all. This is why taking the term at its face value in defining game genres is absurd.

Wat.
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Revelation34 posted...

Wat.

Watching something is playing the role of observer. That is taking the strict definition of the term to a ridiculous extreme, but it's nonetheless consistent with it. This is why "playing a role" isn't a useful descriptor for "role-playing game."

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adjl posted...

Watching something is playing the role of observer. That is taking the strict definition of the term to a ridiculous extreme, but it's nonetheless consistent with it. This is why "playing a role" isn't a useful descriptor for "role-playing game."

Then why is Harvest Moon called an RPG?
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Revelation34 posted...

Then why is Harvest Moon called an RPG?

It isn't on GameFAQs.

The genre is listed as: Strategy Management Business / Tycoon

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Sarcasthma posted...

It isn't on GameFAQs.

The genre is listed as: Strategy Management Business / Tycoon

It was advertised as one. I'm talking the original game.
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Revelation34 posted...

Then why is Harvest Moon called an RPG?

Personally, I don't like using "RPG" as a genre at all, since it's such a vague term and the gameplay elements that can be used to define it show up in so many other genres these days. That said, Harvest Moon does possess many of those traits. It's story-oriented, you can customize your character and their build (more accurately, the farm, though later entries and spin-offs include character progression as well), you can make choices that affect how the story plays out... It fits many of the definitions people would use for "RPG," even if it's not exactly traditional.

How is that question supposed to relate to what I said?

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Revelation34 posted...

It was advertised as one. I'm talking the original game.

Yeah, the original one is listed here as Strategy Management Business / Tycoon.

Would you happen to have any proof of it being advertised as an RPG?


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Revelation34 posted...

Then why is Harvest Moon called an RPG?

Was it?

I always heard of it referred to as a farming sim.

That being said I didn't get into it until HM64, and even then I didn't see it advertised. Dad just picked it up.

Sarcasthma posted...

Yeah, the original one is listed here as Strategy Management Business / Tycoon.

Would you happen to have any proof of it being advertised as an RPG?

I've got no proof of this, but I have a vague memory of Harvest Moon 64 being categorized under RPG's on Nintendo.com way back when. I can see it, for the reasons outlined above, but I could also be misremembering.

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I don't think I had the internet back then so it was probably Nintendo Power. Wikipedia has it under RPG which isn't reliable.
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OniRonin posted...

a big baby could program minecraft. sorry your baby game lost, baby

sounds like youre doing well since Minecraft is a simple thing. So, what game have you sold to Microsoft for 2 billion plus?!?

Persona 1-5 probably hasnt even made a billion let alone draw attention to be bought out for such a price.

both games are meh, but the money is all on Minecraft.

adjl posted...

Good question. I've sung rather a lot in the past decade or so of choirs; it's hard to narrow down favourites out of all of that. Most memorable is probably The Messiah, though obviously calling that a "song" is less than consistent with how musical pieces are labelled.

it's a really pretty piece of music. i think ive only heard little bits and pieces of it before now

lowrclassbrat posted...

sounds like youre doing well since Minecraft is a simple thing. So, what game have you sold to Microsoft for 2 billion plus?!?

im busy working on Minecraft 2

lowrclassbrat posted...

both games are meh

Nah. Persona 5 is great and Minecraft is clearly shit. There is no middle-ground.


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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/3-poll-of-the-day/78614591

Im so surprised another Sony game beat a multi-platform game. Although in this case I dont believe the vote was wrong.

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Equally bad, flip a coin.

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dancer62 posted...

Equally bad, flip a coin.

Thanks Grandma.

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Considering that Minecraft released in 2009 it shouldn't even have been in the bracket.

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2009 was the Alpha. Minecraft didn't formally release until 2011, which would make it qualify. The concept of playable Alphas/Betas and Early Access and whatnot kind of muddy the waters around which decade a game releases in, especially when they straddle the decade line like that. As long as Minecraft wasn't in the last contest, though, and they handle the issue consistently, I don't see a problem with it.

It is kind of weird to realize that, despite the fact that I've been playing it since 2016 via Early Access, Factorio will only qualify for the next such contest because it's not formally releasing until later this year. Factorio isn't well-known enough to make it into the contest either way, but that was just an odd realization.

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