Current Events > Final Fantasy 12 Zodiac Age is half priced. Worth it?

(+) Yeah! (+)

i thought it was a bad game

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I enjoyed vanilla, and I haven't yet touched zodiac age, though I do have it purchased if that means anything.

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I was fine with the original board. I made my characters different myself. Ok, Vaan and Basch were tanks, Balthier and Fran physical DPS, and Ashe and Penelo magical, but they generally used different weapons and it was still fun (towards the end Vaan and Basch started using similar weapons because of weapon availability). I didn't have the LP to unlock everything for everyone.

I do want to play this version sometime.
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Lunar_Savage posted...

If you choose to play it in a boring manner, that is your problem, not the game's.

Yeah only things I set up was auto attack and healing. Rest id do manually and i used the hell out of buffs in the game

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I found the gambits fun. And there were still fights requiring more management than that.
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mooreandrew58 posted...

Yeah only things I set up was auto attack and healing. Rest id do manually and i used the hell out of buffs in the game

my man

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If you ever get bored you can set up gambits to have two of your charactera fight each other. Id unequip all weapons and have them engage in fisticuffs.

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

-A proper job system, so characters aren't cardboard cutouts in-game
-End game spells are actually usable, sice modern systems have enough memory to allow them to be cast and not stop every other spell in your party from doing so
-TURBO MODE!!!
-Damage cap is either 99,999 or removed
-No more "Oh, you opened this innocuous chest? Too bad, now you can't get one of the best weapons in the game" bullshit.
-As a result of having a higher damage cap, making end game spells usable and the addition of turbo mode, the superbosses are no longer a matter of leaving your console on in the background while you do something else, check that everything is ok once an hour and repeat for half a day.

Those are the big ones for me.

Oh, and for the current gen systems specifically, you can choose 2 jobs at once to further customize your party, and a recent update that was included on the Switch launch made it so you can just reset your jobs whenever you want.

And how could I forget? Quickenings and MP are completely separate resources now, meaning you don't have to choose between doing burst damage and actually having a chance in battle.

They also added a trials mode, in which you fight groups of enemies one after the other. This can be used to get some pretty powerful items very early on.

Id also add control-able Summons.

Honestly the game is great. It has an amazing explorable world and a great combat system which combines with the Job system has you trying out different play styles. Speed Boost is a game changer for all Final Fantasys.

Storyline is a bit of an issue it starts well but then there are several areas where the story is paused while you cross multiple areas and this happens multiple times during the game.

The RNG is the main issue with this game, some spells/weapons are stored in chests with a 5% chance of getting them, or behind Bazaar recipes with severely low drop rates. But you can manipulate the RNG on PS4 at least.

Id definitely recommend the game.

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Xerun posted...

Storyline is a bit of an issue it starts well but then there are several areas where the story is paused while you cross multiple areas and this happens multiple times during the game.

Yeah, could have used some better pacing and more character moments.
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I think it's worth it.

If you are into JRPGs but want to try something else besides turn based or action RPG, then this is a great game to try.

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Its interesting and has some really complex battles in Zodiac Age. The Hunts are honestly the best part; specialized boss battles with special rewards. Some of them reauire a bit of thought.

The story is boring and never has any large highs. This isnt FFT Ivalice, but more like Phantom Menace level political squabbling. It isnt bad, but it isnt exciting or even fun. However, the main characters are the focus. You have British Han Solo, a bunny girl Chewie, hardened warrior turned prisoner, dethroned princess warrior out for revenge, and two poor kids who get dragged into it. They are all pretty likable, and Balthier is probably one of the best characters in the series.

So for 20 bucks, yeah, good deal.

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ApherosyLove posted...

Then don't go ham on them. Use them to set up Steal and Attack gambits and leave everything else to you.
Leaves plenty of engagement and takes out some monotomy. The point is you're supposed to use what you're comfortable with. If you're uncomfortable playing the game, don't make your gambits so advanced that you don't have to.

Whatever you say. I just think that it's weird dismissing it as an invalid complaint when the battles are clearly designed to be automated.

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I really don't get the complaint that this game plays itself. Well yeah, you can automate a lot with gambits, but how different is it compared to "press x to win" in other final fantasies?

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scar the 1 posted...

Whatever you say. I just think that it's weird dismissing it as an invalid complaint when the battles are clearly designed to be automated.

Alright, I guess saying that it's invalid is a bit too far, especially because whether I like it or not, the option is there.
BUT, I do think it's a weak complaint.

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Fucking Yiazmat.
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i've been thinking about getting it. i played the original but i remember at the time the combat just felt so slow and automated compared to something like KotOR and i basically started getting into World of Warcraft around the same time anyway so FF12 kind of felt like an MMO without the multiplayer element

the new additions intrigue me and i think i'd have a much greater appreciation for it now, but I think i'll just wait for the Xenoblade remaster

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ApherosyLove posted...

Alright, I guess saying that it's invalid is a bit too far, especially because whether I like it or not, the option is there.
BUT, I do think it's a weak complaint.

IMO it depends on how you frame it. Personally I'm not sure I mind the auto battling part, but I think the critique can be very legit. If the regular battles are so boring that you feel compelled to use autopilot mode, then I can certainly see why someone would be disappointed. Which is also why I don't think "just don't use it" is a very helpful response. You might not have to use gambits to get through the game, but the game quite clearly incentivizes them (partly by making battles quite clunky and boring to fight manually).

In the end I'm not really sure what the point is to classify someone's complaints as weak or strong. If a person is turned off from a game due to a certain feature, then it's a strong enough complaint. You can't "fix" that by changing the way they play the game for them. They will simply not have the same experience as you had, which is obvious, because a big part of that experience is you. And they're not you.

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scar the 1 posted...

IMO it depends on how you frame it. Personally I'm not sure I mind the auto battling part, but I think the critique can be very legit. If the regular battles are so boring that you feel compelled to use autopilot mode, then I can certainly see why someone would be disappointed. Which is also why I don't think "just don't use it" is a very helpful response. You might not have to use gambits to get through the game, but the game quite clearly incentivizes them (partly by making battles quite clunky and boring to fight manually).

In the end I'm not really sure what the point is to classify someone's complaints as weak or strong. If a person is turned off from a game due to a certain feature, then it's a strong enough complaint. You can't "fix" that by changing the way they play the game for them. They will simply not have the same experience as you had, which is obvious, because a big part of that experience is you. And they're not you.

Can't argue with that lol, you got me. Sorry if i seemed abrasive!

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Zurkon posted...

St0rmFury posted...

Fucking Yiazmat.

Forty minutes into the fight he casts reflect on your party just as youre casting curaja. Ah good times.

I knew someone who casted renew instead. He broke his controller.
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scar the 1 posted...

IMO it depends on how you frame it. Personally I'm not sure I mind the auto battling part, but I think the critique can be very legit. If the regular battles are so boring that you feel compelled to use autopilot mode, then I can certainly see why someone would be disappointed. Which is also why I don't think "just don't use it" is a very helpful response. You might not have to use gambits to get through the game, but the game quite clearly incentivizes them (partly by making battles quite clunky and boring to fight manually).

In the end I'm not really sure what the point is to classify someone's complaints as weak or strong. If a person is turned off from a game due to a certain feature, then it's a strong enough complaint. You can't "fix" that by changing the way they play the game for them. They will simply not have the same experience as you had, which is obvious, because a big part of that experience is you. And they're not you.

This is pretty much exactly my point. The game is heavily designed to incentivize the use of auto-battling. Both in the way that the battles actually play out. My go to example is Yiazmat, because when the game designers had to create the ultimate challenge for their combat system, they came up with something that you'd have to be insane to fight manually, because thats not what the system is designed for. But also, the maps/areas of the game incentivizes using automated battles by being so huge and having no transition into combat mode. Going through rhe Estersands or the Jagd sand-sea takes hours and there are sooooooooo many encounters.
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I do understand the complaints about the way the system works with boss battles. The automation of normal random encounters as you grind or go from place to place, meh, that's been around even in old school JRPGs for as long as the option for cursor memory has been, not to mention actual auto attack functions. I don't see the gambit system as functionally different then holding X while your cursor memory commands play out on repeat. But in those games you stop holding x when it comes to a boss/hard encounter and individual controlled actions become more important, in this one you mainly just adjust your gambits here or there for the specifics. There aren't a ton of encounters where precise manual control is needed, or would even be anything but a detriment when compared to well set up gambits.

I like the system, but I learned Ruby in order to be able to make highly customized automated scripts for a text RPG that's been around since the 80's. I get that it's not everybody's cup of tea.

Zurkon posted...

Does anyone remember trying to farm for Danjuro in the original? I wasted a week of my life trying to get that thing and never got it. Pretty sure it was removed in the zodiac version.

Quite distinctly, yes. There was supposed to be an exploit to get the Larva Eater to spawn more frequently, but I never got it to work. So I spent hours grinding them the hard way, spawned maybe a dozen of them, and finally said 'fuck my life, after this last Larva Eater I'm never attempting this again.' Wouldn't you know it, the bastard actually dropped one for me. It might have been the single luckiest moment in my personal gaming history.

I made sure to give it to Ashe (and built her equipment to maximize it) to use in the Yiazmat fight and whatever else remained at that point, I was getting as much mileage as I could out of that beautiful little treasure.

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I love it when people complain about the game "playing itself" when you can easily not set a million gambits and just make it do minimal work. As if the minimal work it does is that much different from pressing X mindlessly in the other turn based Final Fantasies or RPGs.

Also, the RNG manipulation to get the strongest bow, if not strongest weapon, in the game is pretty dope

Traditional FF games don't invoke apathy towards random encounters the same way FF12 does for its fodder enemies, at least not to me. Other than when grinding, I do engage with the combat of random encounters, even if that engagement amounts to pressing the attack button whenever my turn comes up.

I guess the transition into battle might have something to do with it, as it creates two distinct modes of play with a snap twist to go from one to the other, whereas in 12 map exploration/dungeon crawling and battles feel like the same endless slog.
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Tenlaar posted...

I like the system, but I learned Ruby in order to be able to make highly customized automated scripts for a text RPG that's been around since the 80's. I get that it's not everybody's cup of tea.

Are you talking about some kind of MUD?

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DeadBankerDream posted...

I guess the transition into battle might have something to do with it, as it creates two distinct modes of play with a snap twist to go from one to the other, whereas in 12 map exploration/dungeon crawling and battles feel like the same endless slog.

The only reason I've ever actually enjoyed the JRPG's stark division between exploration-world and battle-world was, in hindsight, purely due to technical limitations. In 1994 it was very cool when FF6 transitioned from the blocky overworld to these lovely static backdrops with huge, detailed images of monsters. Conversely, it was neat in 1997 when FF7 transitioned from the gorgeous yet static backdrops of the worldspace to the fully-3D environments and monsters in the combat world. However, once the graphics and engine caught up and made it possible to have both exploration and combat exist in the same worldspace, there was no excuse to keep up the outdated tradition, and this was one of the things I loved about FF12.

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scar the 1 posted...

Are you talking about some kind of MUD?

Yeah, Gemstone.

scar the 1 posted...

IMO it depends on how you frame it. Personally I'm not sure I mind the auto battling part, but I think the critique can be very legit. If the regular battles are so boring that you feel compelled to use autopilot mode, then I can certainly see why someone would be disappointed. Which is also why I don't think "just don't use it" is a very helpful response. You might not have to use gambits to get through the game, but the game quite clearly incentivizes them (partly by making battles quite clunky and boring to fight manually).

In the end I'm not really sure what the point is to classify someone's complaints as weak or strong. If a person is turned off from a game due to a certain feature, then it's a strong enough complaint. You can't "fix" that by changing the way they play the game for them. They will simply not have the same experience as you had, which is obvious, because a big part of that experience is you. And they're not you.

The idea is to point the complaint out as subjective, not objective. The game mechanically gives you the option to play multiple ways. Knocking a game because not all options are efficient is fine, but to say the gameplay as a whole is trash because you personally only find one way to be "valid" is a complaint that is all too easy to mix up with the objective concepts on display.

The TC asked for opinions, he's getting them. Any disagreements in this topic should be his to sort out, but helping hands on what is subjective opinion and objective fact about the game goes a long way in sorting out the picture that is the answer to the question in the OP.

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Tenlaar posted...

Yeah, Gemstone.

Oh that's cool! I played a lot of MUDs back in the day and kinda miss it.

Lunar_Savage posted...

The idea is to point the complaint out as subjective, not objective. The game mechanically gives you the option to play multiple ways. Knocking a game because not all options are efficient is fine, but to say the gameplay as a whole is trash because you personally only find one way to be "valid" is a complaint that is all too easy to mix up with the objective concepts on display.

Ok but literally no complaint is objective. That was the whole point of my digression about valid complaints. They are all subjective, because they're based on a personal experience. Invalid complaints would be something like a complaint that is not supported by the game, e.g., "I didn't like how there were no chocobos in the game" when there obviously were chocobos in the game, or complaints about things you didn't experience, e.g., "I only played halfway through but I hated fighting the last boss".

Complaints about a feature the game wants you to use are perfectly valid. In the case of this game, it's not like you're given two functionally equal options. One is to use Gambits, whose usage battles were designed and directed around using, and the other is the brute force option of abstaining from the feature.

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Man I don't remember anyone complaining anywhere near as hard with DA:O AI slots.

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scar the 1 posted...

Oh that's cool! I played a lot of MUDs back in the day and kinda miss it.

Ok but literally no complaint is objective. That was the whole point of my digression about valid complaints. They are all subjective, because they're based on a personal experience. Invalid complaints would be something like a complaint that is not supported by the game, e.g., "I didn't like how there were no chocobos in the game" when there obviously were chocobos in the game, or complaints about things you didn't experience, e.g., "I only played halfway through but I hated fighting the last boss".

Complaints about a feature the game wants you to use are perfectly valid. In the case of this game, it's not like you're given two functionally equal options. One is to use Gambits, whose usage battles were designed and directed around using, and the other is the brute force option of abstaining from the feature.

Fair, but I'll disagree that the game wants you to use it...it is intended, but saying it is a want, is far fetched, I think. And I could argue all day about the abstaining being the brute force option (I don't think it is in the slightest). That's the subjective stuff. The implications that they're the only valid way to play is plainly wrong which is the way your (and others') opinion comes off and I merely wanted to point that out. If it isn't your intention to imply that, so be it.

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masterpug53 posted...

The only reason I've ever actually enjoyed the JRPG's stark division between exploration-world and battle-world was, in hindsight, purely due to technical limitations. In 1994 it was very cool when FF6 transitioned from the blocky overworld to these lovely static backdrops with huge, detailed images of monsters. Conversely, it was neat in 1997 when FF7 transitioned from the gorgeous yet static backdrops of the worldspace to the fully-3D environments and monsters in the combat world. However, once the graphics and engine caught up and made it possible to have both exploration and combat exist in the same worldspace, there was no excuse to keep up the outdated tradition, and this was one of the things I loved about FF12.

For me 12 was more immersive for how it did things. Screen transitions for battles was always immersion breaking to me especially when the battleground is different looking to where you where I.e. you where climbing stairs but now youre on flat ground.

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