Current Events > Trump seriously can't win right?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Godnorgosh posted...

Ignoring the fact that Biden supports austerity for existing social safety nets, suggested he would veto Medicare for All if it landed on his desk, etc. etc.

Neoliberalism, and Democrats consolidating behind candidates who don't favor the class interests of the electorate, gave us Trump more than anything (other than Trump voters themselves).

You can try to sway or shame every individual disaffected voter into supporting whatever non-Trump Democrat is lined up for them, which is difficult and really more of a temporary workaround, or you can focus more on attacking the political malfeasance of the Democratic Party that led to voters becoming disaffected, which is also difficult, but at least gives you a single point of failure to hone in on. Truthfully, people like Sanders, who people feel better represent them, bring in voters who wouldn't otherwise have bothered at all. Non-voters are the largest bloc for a reason.

Yes, saying that Biden is GOOD for the social safety net or medicare, etc etc is like saying that Pepsi and butter are good for your health.

But you know what's even worse? Rat poison. Again, read my previous post again, trump has been worse than anyone imagined for LGBTQ, hispanics, immigrants and women's reproductive rights. He has a guy that gets compared to goebbels advicing him on policy. The two aren't even close.

Godnorgosh posted...

that ideology will never get folks to turn out in the general election in the numbers they think it should. I

you're right on that. Those people are to blame for the potus we have right now, and probably in 2020 too. And those people don't have the moral or logical legitimacy to complain about anything that trump does since they enabled it

Godnorgosh posted...

Sure, blame them. Blame me, too! Then, try to earn our leftist asshole votes by supporting strong candidates with good policy platforms, if you want to win.

Nah, if they choose to act like babies, let them. They are not special, they shouldn't be catered to. Trump already has their vote, either actively (actually voting) or passively (staying at home or voting for whatever crackpot the green party puts out, or write-in), so for all of their ideological purity they clearly treat the alt right side better than the center-left or center-right.

biden will win in a landslide. biden was already very likely to win even before corona, now trump is fucked

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Godnorgosh posted...

What this tells me is: you want to blame the left for not voting for the Democrat in the general, implying if they had done so, the Democrat would have won the election. Yet, you do not want to do the work necessary to earn their vote, by supporting and promoting strong candidates with populist policy positions. But it's those on the left who are entitled.

You know how the alt right people appropriate the US flag? They bring it to their rallies and stuff, when in reality, the flag is for every american out there, of every color?

You guys appropriate "the left". Left is not just far-left.

Now that we cleared that, you keep repeating the same spiel: Hillary/Biden didn't knee in front of you and said pretty please while kissing a USSR flag or whatever to win your vote. Fine.

Did Trump do that? Did whatever crackpot the green party pulls out of its behind do that? No. It seems your side is not as demanding with them.

But let me spin this around: is everything about you? When you see kids in cages, people being targeted over the color of their skin, legal changes to negate the rights of LGBTQ, underhanded tactics to treat women and their reproductive rights as if it were 1950, when you see people with torches singing "blood and soil" in charlottesville, running over people with their cars, while waving LITERALLY nazi flags, only to hear POTUS call them "very fine people", you still refuse to do something as simple as going to vote for his only realistic electoral opponent because said side/candidate didn't do enough to endear himself to you? This is the very definition of egoism, privilege, entitlement and shallowness.

If he wins, cool.
If he loses, oh well.


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Conflict posted...

This is an extremely poor revision. You can't sit there and say that you actually believe Hillary was blameless and just smeared for the past 2 decades.

I mean yes, sure, she did some wrong thing. You can't be in politics for 20 years and have so many high ranking political positions and power and be spotless. Nobody.

Godnorgosh posted...

These problems that you highlight, in this country with its horribly racist and sexist history, didn't start with Trump, and they won't end with him, either.

Agreed. But before him nobody had taken things as far as he did. He literally called nazis very fine people. He put a supremacist (miller) as policy advisor. He ended legal immigration. He put kids in cages in huge numbers, etc etc

And because I do care about these things, and I also care about changing the system that led to this point, I won't be voting for either racist rapist.

Yeah, so I guess everyone who is not a white, suburban, straight, affluent liberal can be sacrificed so you achieve your so-called revolution, right? See, this is entitlement.

No, burning the country into the ground so you get some sort of socialist candidate that's non-binary and tri-racial won't change anything, by then trump will have appointed dozens, if not hundreds of new judges and he may have 1 or 2 more SCOTUS seats too, among other changes. These changes are practically irreversible.

In fact, I may just end up voting for the "crackpot."

Yeah, because that person CLEARLY did enough to earn your vote. Wait, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO THEIR CANDIDATE WILL BE YET. All you know is you want revenge on the DNC for not going the communism route. This is all we needed to know.

And when I'm blamed for Trump winning, I'll tell you that I made it clear what concessions you had to make if you wanted me to use my vote, the only legal leverage I have to try to change things politically, on your s***ty candidate who won't change anything.

Again, what makes you so special? Under what authority or special position can you say "worship me or else these THOUSANDS of minorities and LGBTQ shall suffer a horrible fate"?

on your s***ty candidate who won't change anything.

You really think that after winning biden would go like "actually.... nazis are very fine people, miller is a swell guy, and we need more alt-right SCOTUS judges so let me nominate arpaio for SCOTUS"? Give me a break. Many of the worse things 45 did would be rolled back by Biden. He'd not give you UBI or free college or have a sick beatbox freestyle solo followed by a pop & lock dance like you want to, but who else would?

andel posted...

biden will win in a landslide. biden was already very likely to win even before corona, now trump is fucked

hmm

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Coastal_elite posted...

Agreed. But before him nobody had taken things as far as he did. He literally called nazis very fine people. He put a supremacist (miller) as policy advisor. He ended legal immigration. He put kids in cages in huge numbers, etc etc

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-obtains-documents-showing-widespread-abuse-child-immigrants-us-custody

Here is a report by the ACLU documenting widespread abuse of migrants between 2009 and 2014. Their report was 30,000 pages in total, and specific examples of abuses are as follows.

Punched a childs head three times
Kicked a child in the ribs
Used a stun gun on a boy, causing him to fall to the ground, shaking, with his eyes rolling back in his head
Ran over a 17-year-old with a patrol vehicle and then punched him several times
Verbally abused detained children, calling them dogs and other ugly things
Denied detained children permission to stand or move freely for days and threatened children who stood up with transfer to solitary confinement in a small, freezing room
Denied a pregnant minor medical attention when she reported pain, which preceded a stillbirth
Subjected a 16-year-old girl to a search in which they forcefully spread her legs and touched her private parts so hard that she screamed
Left a 4-pound premature baby and her minor mother in an overcrowded and dirty cell full of sick people, against medical advice
Threw out a childs birth certificate and threatened him with sexual abuse by an adult male detainee.

All the people are shrieking about the treatment of migrants had nothing to say when this was happening under Obama's watch. And they'll go right back to having nothing to say when the next Democrat president is in office.

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DifferentialEquation posted...

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-obtains-documents-showing-widespread-abuse-child-immigrants-us-custody

Here is a report by the ACLU documenting widespread abuse of migrants between 2009 and 2014. Their report was 30,000 pages in total, and specific examples of abuses are as follows.

All the people are shrieking about the treatment of migrants had nothing to say when this was happening under Obama's watch. And they'll go right back to having nothing to say when the next Democrat president is in office.

I never said everything was rosy before your boy. It's just much worse now

@Godnorgosh you're either not arguing in good faith or you truly have so much privilege you can't understand what's going on. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and keep it short and in numbered points. Try addressing each numbered item.

1) How long ago was the president that owned slaves elected? What about the other one? Are you really arguing that the "nazis are very fine people" and the stephen miller thing are not a big deal because of other presidents from GENERATIONS ago?

2) you never addressed the point: Do you really see these MILLIONS of people of color, immigrants and LGBTQ as expendable "resources" to be sacrificed for the sake if intellectual purity and busting the system eventually? Don't change the topic mentioning how Biden and/or the DNC haven't been good to them or threw them under the boss, it is nowhere comparable to what 45 and his buddies Bannon and Miller have done to them and plan to do to them: it's like arguing that drinking pepsi and eating cheetos is just like drinking bleach laced with rat poison: Yes, both are really bad for you, but they're not even remotely comparable.

3) What the heck has howie whatshisface done for the sake of your intellectual purity and being a saint? Do tell please.

4) "Perhaps Biden is the harm-reduction candidate; he's still well below my threshold of acceptability.". See, this is the thing I am trying to make you understand. "Harm reduction is well below my threshold of no-damage, so I am going to go for maximum damage" is one of the dumbest thing I have ever heard. So your threshold for no damage is so high you... want maximum damage? It makes no sense and you know it.

DifferentialEquation posted...

I'll be voting for him.

Hey @DifferentialEquation

How much bleach have you chugged down these days?

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Godnorgosh posted...

It is a big deal. But your claim was that this sort of thing is unprecedented from an American president. It's not. Look at your country's history. Look at how many of your beloved founders owned slaves. We've had a president who perpetrated a domestic genocide. "Ah, but you see, that was generations ago!" Now you're just moving goalposts.

you just went back to your original deflection again. This is trump vs biden, so keep it at trump vs biden. Whatever some guy did back before we even had 50 states is a different topic.

Godnorgosh posted...

No, I see millions of people of color, immigrants, LGBTQ, working-class people and everyone who fits into the overlaps between those groups viewed as expendable resources by Democrats and Republicans alike, given that Democrats rejected Sanders twice and consistently reject Greens as "crackpots." Your party consistently rejects progressive candidates

assuming this is true for argument's sake, so the DNC treats them as expendable resources because they won't choose socialist candidates, and somehow that equivalent to the horrors that 45 has subjected them to and will subject them to? Again, we're talking about pepsi vs cyanide. You keep saying that you want to feed others cyanide instead of pepsi because pepsi is less healthy than water. It's insane.

Godnorgosh posted...

If Trump is the greater of two evils and I were going for maximum damage, I'd be voting for Trump, wouldn't I? I'm not doing that. But I'm certainly not considering doing anything for Biden until he's at least prepared to make significant concessions

You know damn well that the electoral system is set up in a way right now that a 3rd party vote is not viable. A vote for some 3rd party or write it or a non-vote is pretty much a vote for trump, and you know it.

Godnorgosh posted...

you're all to blame for voting for one of two racist rapists.

You keep trying to equate biden to trump from a moral and damage stand point. It's not going to work. Not when the latter called nazis very fine people, pardoned joe "the great hispanic hunter" arpaio, gave power to stephen miller, ended legal immigration and has fostered the passing of all sort of "religious liberty" laws designed to deny LGBTQ basic rights. Then you have the "grab them by the p****", the rape allegations, the stormy daniels stuff, the playboy playmate stuff, him admitting to going backstage at miss USA to see them changing clothes, etc etc etc. They're not even remotely equivalent and you know it.