Board 8 > Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1357

(+) Yeah! (+)

Persona might end up above 60% still

its crazy just how badly it lost the board vote.

I think there's some SSF going on but also I don't think Dragon Quest and God of War are far off from each other in terms of strength, which would still mean that Zelda does decently on Witcher even without SSF, then factoring in the SSF would predict it to win fairly handily

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I wrote this for my guest crew analysis

"I'm not gonna call it SFF because that's overstating the dynamic and overlap between these two games, but just like the other Odyssey added a bunch of RPG and stats shit to the AC formula in an effort to chase modern trends, GoW added that same shit to the series formula to better fit today's market. It's now more like the typical Western game, and not only are you not gonna beat Witcher on that front, it's a front that Witcher can exploit."

God of War is not an RPG. It does not play like an RPG. It has RPG trappings. That's it.

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barring some crazy CDPR rally Zelda is still gonna 60 - 40 Witcher most likely.

_SecretSquirrel posted...

So, I just looked at Second chance for today, and I have 57 for Witcher and 62 for Persona. Oh boy.

I was sitting at a nice 144 (out of 150) through the first 3 matches, but picked P4G with 51%...

I have today's matches at 64 and 61 for Witcher and Persona respectively. Feeling slightly optimistic, but that missed pick probably means I'm out of contention early.

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Kinglicious posted...

man, i've never been as interested in god of war as now thanks to this topic.
don't like the original or its sequel, never bothered with 3 or any of the rest.

but this one being with RPG stuff seems like a nice upswing to being less shit.

It's still an action game, first and foremost, but it's balanced with traditional RPG elements like the aforementioned gear and XP. The world is presented and opened up in a more RPG-like manner as well (with side quests and branching paths, it's far less linear than the PS2 games).

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MechanicalWall posted...

I wrote this for my guest crew analysis

"I'm not gonna call it SFF because that's overstating the dynamic and overlap between these two games, but just like the other Odyssey added a bunch of RPG and stats shit to the AC formula in an effort to chase modern trends, GoW added that same shit to the series formula to better fit today's market. It's now more like the typical Western game, and not only are you not gonna beat Witcher on that front, it's a front that Witcher can exploit."

God of War is not an RPG. It does not play like an RPG. It has RPG trappings. That's it.

"doesn't play" like an rpg? what does that even mean?

is Dark Souls an RPG to you?

Sharinnegan posted...

"doesn't play" like an rpg? what does that even mean?

is Dark Souls an RPG to you?

It means it plays like an action game cause that's what it is. Also no

Is Symphony of the Night an RPG to YOU? Because it shares most of the elements you described with God of War

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Lol of course Dark Souls is an RPG are you high?

MechanicalWall posted...

Is Symphony of the Night an RPG to YOU? Because it shares most of the elements you described with God of War

It's an action game with RPG elements.

HOW ABOUT THIS - is Kingdom Hearts an RPG?

Edit: someone can call SotN an Action-RPG, and I wouldn't make it a point to dispute them. Hasn't it already been called that for years?

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Of course Portal 2 is keeping it close. Of course. Persona is the new Kefka of these contests.

Didn't even take an hour for this post to age poorly

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Kingdom Hearts and Dark Souls are action RPGs. You can call God of War that but even that's overstating how much the RPG elements actually matter.

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Kingdom Hearts is less an RPG and more just a bad game.

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I'd say Souls is much more of an action game than RPG, personally >_>

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what's the difference in how witcher plays then? thats also action focused in terms of combat. Dark Souls is considered an RPG just about everywhere. they're always running for "best rpg" in the game awards (which compiles just about every major piece of gaming media to make decisions).

in terms of depth in the combat both Witcher AND GoW fall far short of actual full blown action games like Bayonetta or DMC5.

Leonhart4 posted...

Didn't even take an hour for this post to age poorly

Maybe Portal 2 is the Kefka of this contest, and took that mantle when GLaDOS and Kefka were in the same match.

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Also I'll allow this Witcher 3 performance to be legit strength if it means Galaxy 2 is a top 5 game this contest

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In Witcher your decisions regarding stats abilities etc have a much stronger impact on the game than they do in God of War. Not to mention those 'dialogue trees' and the actual playing of a role in the game.

And GoW plays a heck of a lot closer to DMC than it does to actual RPGs

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Leonhart4 posted...

Also I'll allow this Witcher 3 performance to be legit strength if it means Galaxy 2 is a top 5 game this contest

It might end up being the top Nintendo game not named BotW, just by way of not running into Zelda at all.

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MechanicalWall posted...

In Witcher your decisions regarding stats abilities etc have a much stronger impact on the game than they do in God of War. Not to mention those 'dialogue trees' and the actual playing of a role in the game.

And GoW plays a heck of a lot closer to DMC than it does to actual RPGs

it definitely does not. GoW's combat is much closer to Witcher 3's than it is to DMC. have you seen DMC played?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63q0YM1RY8A

Kinglicious posted...

Kingdom Hearts is less an RPG and more just a bad game.

LOL holy shit

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witcher 3 is the poor man's version of fallout new vegas. the fact that new vegas lost to god of war and god of war is losing to witcher 3 is disgusting.

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Does Skyrim really want to meet Witcher 3 in the semis at this point? After what Witcher 3 has done to every other Western game?

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Sharinnegan posted...

have you seen DMC played?

I've played DMC myself, along with all the games in this discussion. And I still say God of War is much closer to that than it is to Witcher (or Skyrim, or whatever) where there simply isn't much to the player's execution of the combat.

God of War most directly rips off Dark Souls, and while the 'is Dark Souls an RPG' argument has been done to death, the people who say it IS one do not hinge their arguments on the actual combat.

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squexa posted...

Does Skyrim really want to meet Witcher 3 in the semis at this point? After what Witcher 3 has done to every other Western game?

So you're saying it should throw the match against Pokemon so we can see Galaxy 2 and Pokemon in the top 5 of the X-Stats?

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Leonhart4 posted...

So you're saying it should throw the match against Pokemon so we can see Galaxy 2 and Pokemon in the top 5 of the X-Stats?

I'd be fine with that

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Skyrim won't even make it to Witcher III.

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squexa posted...

Does Skyrim really want to meet Witcher 3 in the semis at this point? After what Witcher 3 has done to every other Western game?

If it loses to Dark Souls, it's just going to suffer the same fate. The best case scenario for its xstat value is either Persona 5 pulling the upset of upsets, or the most embarassing one, losing to Heart Gold.

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Lolruz posted...

witcher 3 is the poor man's version of fallout new vegas. the fact that new vegas lost to god of war and god of war is losing to witcher 3 is disgusting.

What a stupid take, those two games are very different you cant say that statement at all, it doesnt make any sense. One focuses on pure freedom and the other has predetermined character and strict lore. New Vegas can be compared to Elder Scrolls games for example, while Witcher 3 can be compared to Bioware games things like KOTOR and Dragon Age and Mass Effect.

Unless you play witcher on easy difficulties the reliance on good dodging around and/or blocking is there almost as much as it is on GoW (in normal mode at least)

both games are super shallow compared to DMC. if youre gonna use player execution as an argument, the skill gap from witcher to GoW is insignificant compared to the jump to the almost endless skill ceiling that DMC has.

Sharinnegan posted...

Unless you play witcher on easy difficulties the reliance on good dodging around and/or blocking is there almost as much as it is on GoW (in normal mode at least)

both games are super shallow compared to DMC. if youre gonna use player execution as an argument, the skill gap from witcher to GoW is insignificant compared to the jump to the almost endless skill ceiling that DMC has.

One argument i just read is GoW writing is on par with Witcher 3 writing, its laughable how some people think, actually some people are just low iq cant help. im sorry.
I agree with your comment about skill gap.
If we would vote for skill gap, multiplayer games should be at the top, things like League of Legends take more skill to master than every combat paced single player game.

Sharinnegan posted...

the skill gap from witcher to GoW is insignificant compared to the jump to the almost endless skill ceiling that DMC has.

Of course both games are shallow compared to DMC. But DMC is the highest of high bars. But the inputs and combos of God of War still lean more that way

You know what action game God of War most plays like? God of War. Especially when you get the Blades of Chaos back.

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DMC gets repetitive super fast once you've found a playstyle that works for you.

Witcher III and GoW may have shallower combat, but the writing and game worlds more than make up for it.

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Sekiro > DMC/Bayo/GoW if y'all really are using skill ceilings as a measure of quality in action games. That's dumb as hell.

MechanicalWall posted...

Of course both games are shallow compared to DMC. But DMC is the highest of high bars. But the inputs and combos of God of War still lean more that way

You know what action game God of War most plays like? God of War. Especially when you get the Blades of Chaos back.

I'd still say the new GoW's combat is more reminiscent of games like Souls and Witcher 3 than it is of past GoW games. (witcher 3 is directly inspired by Dark Souls btw, as we know from past dev interviews and quotes.)

UltimaterializerX posted...

Wang is not wrong. That series since KH2 has been dog shit.

I'm playing Dream Drop Distance as we speak. There aren't many games worse than this.

I'm sort of curious what you worst game ever list would look like. It feels like you have a lot of games near the bottom but you can't put all of them in the bottom 10.
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tgs2 posted...

Sekiro > DMC/Bayo/GoW if y'all really are using skill ceilings as a measure of quality in action games. That's dumb as hell.

The discussion is if God of War is an RPG or an action game, not if it's a GOOD action game

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MechanicalWall posted...

It means it plays like an action game cause that's what it is. Also no

Is Symphony of the Night an RPG to YOU? Because it shares most of the elements you described with God of War

Is Tales of Symphonia not an RPG either? Since it has action?

i mean DMC greatly depends which game you're talking about in the series and God of War has never been very big on skill anyway, it was heavily reliant on hitting X and occasionally O for the QTE. it's pretty easy to be demanding more skill than the weaker DMC entries considering DmC was about as shallow as the PS2 God of War games and baking a potato is more challenging than 2. 5 is not the series standard.

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tgs2 posted...

Sekiro > DMC/Bayo/GoW if y'all really are using skill ceilings as a measure of quality in action games. That's dumb as hell.

Sekiro has a pretty high skill ceiling but doesn't compare to DMC

DMC has players that put thousands of hours into it, yet they still can find other players doing things online they are incapable of replicating. it has almost as much depth as a competitive fighting game.

were not using it as a measure of quality. the debate is whether GoW is more RPG or Action game.

So my mains not in guru (VeryInsane) but I have TLOU > Dark Souls but Witcher 3 > Skyrim

Odds I hold on to the leaderboard? Probably not great D:

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ZeldaTPLink posted...

Is Tales of Symphonia not an RPG either? Since it has action?

The Tales series has always been one of the premiere examples of action RPGs along with Kingdom Hearts

The highest I'll go in God of War is action RPG and even than I'm dubious. And no matter what it's not enough to claim any significant SFF in this match which is what this discussion is really about. I can come up with way better explanations for this result than SFF

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just out of curiosity, if you dont think there is SFF, do you expect Witcher 3 to stomp Persona 5 next round?

UltimaterializerX posted...

Wang is not wrong. That series since KH2 has been dog shit.

I'm playing Dream Drop Distance as we speak. There aren't many games worse than this.

man, i'd call KH2 and maybe BBS as the only good games that series has had. never played the proper COM, suffered enough with the GBA to be traumatized. i finally reached that conclusion once i got the collection, was playing KH1 and realized... oh no, this is bad. i still haven't finished KH3 because i got tired of the formula we were clearly stuck in by world 3: new Disney world, stretch this plot out for waaay too long, make sure you win fights by hitting triangle to trigger a mini cutscene, get to the boss, trigger said mini cutscenes like 8 times, win, now plot plot plot plot, then back to Lego SHMUP.

at least with 2 when you hit triangle fights just ended soon after or the scene actually mattered for something. here, i get teacups and a carousel.

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Does it derive elements of it's systems from D&D?

Yes? It's an RPG.

Good talk.

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Sharinnegan posted...

just out of curiosity, if you dont think there is SFF, do you expect Witcher 3 to stomp Persona 5 next round?

Like I said in the write up I posted, I think there's a SMALL element of potential SFF, like two or three points. Not the ten that would be needed to explain how this match went from 55-45 (based off a constant Mario and New Vegas) to a near doubling. I have better explanations for that.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Wang is not wrong. That series since KH2 has been dog shit.

I'm playing Dream Drop Distance as we speak. There aren't many games worse than this.

Do you plan to write a review for the game?

Team Rocket Elite posted...

I'm sort of curious what you worst game ever list would look like. It feels like you have a lot of games near the bottom but you can't put all of them in the bottom 10.

gamefaqs.gamespot.com/community/Ultima_X/games/rated?platform=0&filter=1
gamefaqs.gamespot.com/community/Ultima_X/games/rated?platform=0&filter=2

Vanilla KH2 was just as dumb as KH3 in terms of perception upon release. I am suspecting everyone is meaning KH2FM when talking about 2. In that case, BBS was the only good vanilla KH game that didn't need a delux version to fix things up.

I love the trainwreck plot as it's just a means for Nomura to keep his insanity contained. Until containment failed and it leaked into FF7R.