Board 8 > Bernie supporters, who are you voting for?

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PrinceReva posted...

I understand that taxes are at their highest they've been in decades, but the man saying he'd lower taxes and actually doing it is what his base wants, like I stated

I get that, I'm just saying you picked the 1 example where he did actually do what he said, and it wasn't even the way you intended (you mentioned billionaire tax breaks not standard deviation and QPI). It's like calling Obama a pacifist hippie for removing the sanction on Cuba.

And I have absolutely 0 problem arguing politics and economics. If you want to bow out then go for it but think the craggly edges of these topics are where all the value is. We're not trying to have a couple beers on the patio.

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red sox 777 posted...

No Republican candidate will ever be good enough for foolmo. In the real world, Trump is delivering the goods for Republicans, just as PrinceReva says.

Stop 1 war

It would be so damn easy

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

foolmo thinks socialism is communism so i can confirm this

I'm not a socialist so I defer to Marx for most everything on this topic, and he did not make a distinction. I get that everyone has their own definition nowadays, but come on, the Netherlands ain't it. State owned means of production is the most objective definition you could have, and I'll let you look up who has most used the defense production act to take over industry.

There's so few illegal powers of Trump's that you fundamentally don't think the president should have - you just wish it was a different president exercising them. You don't want to change the machine at all, just the driver, because it's right where you want it already. And if what you want is socialism, then we're already there. That's my point.

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foolm0r0n posted...

Stop 1 war

It would be so damn easy

But that's not a Republican goal. Also, Trump already achieved that in Syria by sitting back and letting Russia and Iran do it.

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There's plenty of Republican candidates who would realistically stop a war, they just don't get elected.

The last 2 winning Republicans heavily campaigned on stopping war too, so it's at least part of the mindshare unlike with Democrats. At least until the January after election when some sort of wizard shows up and makes them all forget any anti war sentiment they ever had.

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foolm0r0n posted...

I'm not a socialist so I defer to Marx for most everything on this topic, and he did not make a distinction. I get that everyone has their own definition nowadays, but come on, the Netherlands ain't it. State owned means of production is the most objective definition you could have, and I'll let you look up who has most used the defense production act to take over industry.

There's so few illegal powers of Trump's that you fundamentally don't think the president should have - you just wish it was a different president exercising them. You don't want to change the machine at all, just the driver, because it's right where you want it already. And if what you want is socialism, then we're already there. That's my point.

you're saying the dutch government isn't socialist but the trump administration is?

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In absolute terms yeah. It's hard to compete with the largest state-industrial complex in the world by an order of magnitude.

In a practical sense, I thought the Netherlands had freer markets than the US but maybe that's just Scandinavia.

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I think the way the USSR understood the terms was:

Socialism - the transitional state where the state owns and controls everything.
Communism - the end state where the idea of ownership of property has been abolished.

Of course, no state run by the Communist Party has ever gotten beyond socialism, probably because they have no incentive to give up 100% ownership of all assets of the country.

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Maybe everyone would agree if I said that the US is increasingly Stalinist? Then the desperate socialists can keep telling themselves it's "not real socialism" while the rest of us understand what we're talking about.

I do have a decent number of commie friends on FB who defend Stalin, Mao, Chavez, etc though. That's what I think a lot of foreigners don't understand about the US. We have a lot of socialists who genuinely support the "not real socialism" and the authoritarianism and the violence. They're not just capitalists who want free college and healthcare like your socialists. We have real nazis too, after all. It's all expressions of the aggressive warmongering culture that fuels America.

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