Current Events > Attn: Piano players

(+) Yeah! (+)

How long did it take you to really pick it up? I got to play a bit over the weekend and was kind of learning some of Heart and Soul, but Ive never really played an instrument before and my fingers arent too nimble. Id love to get a keyboard and start practicing soon though. How difficult do you think thatd be? Should I learn how to read music first?

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I've been playing for I'd say 35 years.

If it made you feel happy, then yes, get a keyboard.
Personally I wouldn't bother with a pressure-sensitive one.
There is nothing wrong with just 'noodling on it'
But eventually, try to learn scales and chords.
If you were knocking out Heart and Soul, then work on that.
...Just at least to get that under your belt.

But when you really want to learn, pick a song you actually like.
~Don't make practice a chore.

Your fingers will come along as muscle memory.

Honestly learning the basics of the Piano is rather easy, and really helps when learning any other instrument.
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Ive always wanted to learn and I would honestly just do a lot of noodling, but I think I will try to pick one up after moving. I like playing simple lullaby sorts of things when I mess around.

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

Ive always wanted to learn and I would honestly just do a lot of noodling, but I think I will try to pick one up after moving. I like playing simple lullaby sorts of things when I mess around.

It's a start.
It all builds from there if you truly enjoy it!

Sometimes when I am just passing my Piano I just knock something out for the fun of it!

For the record, the first song I learned was the Meowmix song from the 80's commercial.
~That's what started it all.

But my Mom was musical, and she wanted at least one of the kids to pick it up, and it turned out to be me.
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SiO4 posted...

For the record, the first song I learned was the Meowmix song from the 80's commercial.

Thats really cute. Im not sure where Id start. Id love to learn The Sheep Song by The Dresden Dolls, but Im not sure thats easy enough for a beginner.

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

Thats really cute. Im not sure where Id start. Id love to learn The Sheep Song by The Dresden Dolls, but Im not sure thats easy enough for a beginner.

The Piano part seems doable, but you probably want the sheet music.

I mean for absolute starting, something like, Oh When the saints go marching in, is perfect. As lame as it sounds. But you will learn the basics of a melody and simple chords. Start real simple, once you get that things can pick up real quickly.

As I said, anything you can pull off will only give you the drive to go further.

But once you gain traction, Yes absolutely go after the songs that you really like.
The tune is already in your ear, and that is a huge part. Plus your passion for the song will keep you going.
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SiO4 posted...

The Piano part seems doable, but you probably want the sheet music.

True. Im sure Ill look more into this in a month or so, once Im all settled into a new place.

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@Twin3Turbo

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

True. Im sure Ill look more into this in a month or so, once Im all settled into a new place.

LOL, getting the hell out of there?
Can't say I blame ya'

Also, look into 'fake books'
They are good way to just make yourself more comfortable in front of the keys.
Just consider stuff like that just the onramp to better things!!
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Learn the Up theme; that one is super beautiful when you get the images of the characters themselves along with the music

I would say sheet music is probably the best followed by YouTube guides; as long as youre having fun learning lines and working on stuff you wanna know youll find how much and on what you wanna invest on

Stuff that helps:

• Learning what the notes on sheet and piano are
• Learning how to read keys on sheet music
• How to form basic chords (major, minor, augmented, diminished)
• How to form 7th chords (major 7th, minor 7th, diminished 7th, dominant 7th) and sus chords (Sus 2, Sus 4)
• Slash chords (D/F#) and what an inversin means

There is more, but I feel like this is something you can use to play pretty much everything.. in between learning songs

SiO4 posted...

The Piano part seems doable, but you probably want the sheet music.

I mean for absolute starting, something like, Oh When the saints go marching in, is perfect. As lame as it sounds. But you will learn the basics of a melody and simple chords. Start real simple, once you get that things can pick up real quickly.

As I said, anything you can pull off will only give you the drive to go further.

But once you gain traction, Yes absolutely go after the songs that you really like.
The tune is already in your ear, and that is a huge part. Plus your passion for the song will keep you going.

I second this too <3

I wish I could play piano. I make beats using FL Studio and I would imagine it would be infinitely easier if I knew how to play piano rather than just messing around with the keys until I find a good riff or w/e its called for pianos

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Weezy_Tha_Don posted...

I wish I could play piano. I make beats using FL Studio and I would imagine it would be infinitely easier if I knew how to play piano rather than just messing around with the keys until I find a good riff or w/e its called for pianos

You probably can get the basics down on your actual keyboard.. Im sure theres that sort of VST available

Though, yer lucky, they have them midi chord packs nowadays that just lets you pick nice chords right off the bat that lets you then slap a melody on it

RedJackson posted...

You probably can get the basics down on your actual keyboard.. Im sure theres that sort of VST available

Though, yer lucky, they have them midi chord packs nowadays that just lets you pick nice chords right off the bat that lets you then slap a melody on it

That's not really lucky it at best makes you lazy and at worst robs you of any organic technique.
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SiO4 posted...

LOL, getting the hell out of there?
Can't say I blame ya'

Also, look into 'fake books'
They are good way to just make yourself more comfortable in front of the keys.
Just consider stuff like that just the onramp to better things!!

Oh, no, haha. Im gonna stick around the cities, although Ive decided Ill definitely try to stick to St Paul now.

Ill check into it, thanks!

RedJackson posted...

Learn the Up theme; that one is super beautiful when you get the images of the characters themselves along with the music

I would say sheet music is probably the best followed by YouTube guides; as long as youre having fun learning lines and working on stuff you wanna know youll find how much and on what you wanna invest on

Stuff that helps:

* Learning what the notes on sheet and piano are
* Learning how to read keys on sheet music
* How to form basic chords (major, minor, augmented, diminished)
* How to form 7th chords (major 7th, minor 7th, diminished 7th, dominant 7th) and sus chords (Sus 2, Sus 4)
* Slash chords (D/F#) and what an inversin means

There is more, but I feel like this is something you can use to play pretty much everything.. in between learning songs

Thanks! Im sure Ill do some youtube tutorials for basics. I know nothing about music really, but I feel like Ive always been decent at melody? At least visualizing that in my head?

Weezy_Tha_Don posted...

I wish I could play piano. I make beats using FL Studio and I would imagine it would be infinitely easier if I knew how to play piano rather than just messing around with the keys until I find a good riff or w/e its called for pianos

A few of my friends in college made techno, and each of them used FL studio, so Ive messed around with it a little. Its been years now though.

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I'll try to keep this simple

For starters, I'm a 100% self taught pianist. I would not recommend that. If you can, find someone that can teach you.

If you can't however there are a lot of things that you just need to know

1. It takes time to get good. It just does. You have to play every day. People like Oscar Peterson would talk about how he would practice for 6 hours a day in his younger years. You probably don't have 6 hours a day but the point is that you are definitely going to have to put some grind time in in order to get good
2. Don't practice the same song over and over, learning the same song and nothing else for months. That is a waste of time for various reasons ( I would go into it but I'm trying to keep this short).
3. Play slowly and accurately. You don't get better at a passage by playing it over and over again. You get better by playing it slowly and accurately, and then going to sleep. Kinda like when you are building muscles, it's when you go to sleep that it actually grows. This is scientifically proven.
4. Learn how to play both by ear and sheet music. Most people only learn how to do one or the other. You are far more varied and dynamic if you can do both.
5. Specifically practice sight reading. Every day. At least 15 minutes a day. In order to get good at this, you have to sight read stuff that is way below your playing level and gradually get better. There many different series that can help you with this (Kember series, Paul Harris series, Hannah Smith sight reading exercises, Mikrokosmos) I personally did not like the Mikrokosmos though. Something like sightreadingfactory.com can help as well. There are also books with fairly easy pieces in them that are great for practicing, such as the Essential Keyboard Repertoire series. Also, lots of composers had books of "Children's Pieces" that are great for beginners. A lot oft that type of stuff can be found for free on the IMSLP website.
6. I personally recommend doing at least the first 20 Hanon Exercises in all 12 keys. Twice
7. This actually might be the most important thing here, learn music theory. Scales, chords, rhythms, it's all connected. And use a metronome
8. A beginner's book series that a lot of people recommend is the Alfred's Adult All in One series.
9. If your hands hurt while you're playing, you are most likely doing something wrong.

Additionally, I have access to a TON of sheet music. A guy gave me his Dropbox that has tons of sheet music to all sorts of stuff, as well as method books (books on Jazz, classical, improvising, beginners books, etc), books on sight reading, books on damn near everything. All organized. I know for fact that he has at least a few of the Essential Keyboard Repertoire series and the Paul Harris Sight reading series. If you want access, send me a PM.

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@Twin3Turbo

any tips on breaking the speed barrier? I have a simple song memorized, but I can never play it fast enough.

If you didnt start as a kid, Id strongly suggest learning almost any other instrument instead. Something about the pianos twin clefs makes it highly conducive to learning as a kid.


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Twin3Turbo posted...

I'll try to keep this simple

For starters, I'm a 100% self taught pianist. I would not recommend that. If you can, find someone that can teach you.

If you can't however there are a lot of things that you just need to know

1. It takes time to get good. It just does. You have to play every day. People like Oscar Peterson would talk about how he would practice for 6 hours a day in his younger years. You probably don't have 6 hours a day but the point is that you are definitely going to have to put some grind time in in order to get good
2. Don't practice the same song over and over, learning the same song and nothing else for months. That is a waste of time for various reasons ( I would go into it but I'm trying to keep this short).
3. Play slowly and accurately. You don't get better at a passage by playing it over and over again. You get better by playing it slowly and accurately, and then going to sleep. Kinda like when you are building muscles, it's when you go to sleep that it actually grows. This is scientifically proven.
4. Learn how to play both by ear and sheet music. Most people only learn how to do one or the other. You are far more varied and dynamic if you can do both.
5. Specifically practice sight reading. Every day. At least 15 minutes a day. In order to get good at this, you have to sight read stuff that is way below your playing level and gradually get better. There many different series that can help you with this (Kember series, Paul Harris series, Hannah Smith sight reading exercises, Mikrokosmos) I personally did not like the Mikrokosmos though. Something like sightreadingfactory.com can help as well. There are also books with fairly easy pieces in them that are great for practicing, such as the Essential Keyboard Repertoire series. Also, lots of composers had books of "Children's Pieces" that are great for beginners. A lot oft that type of stuff can be found for free on the IMSLP website.
6. I personally recommend doing at least the first 20 Hanon Exercises in all 12 keys. Twice
7. This actually might be the most important thing here, learn music theory. Scales, chords, rhythms, it's all connected. And use a metronome
8. A beginner's book series that a lot of people recommend is the Alfred's Adult All in One series.
9. If your hands hurt while you're playing, you are most likely doing something wrong.
Additionally, I have access to a TON of sheet music. A guy gave me his Dropbox that has tons of sheet music to all sorts of stuff, as well as method books (books on Jazz, classical, improvising, beginners books, etc), books on sight reading, books on damn near everything. All organized. I know for fact that he has at least a few of the Essential Keyboard Repertoire series and the Paul Harris Sight reading series. If you want access, send me a PM.

Thank you for all this! I'll try to keep a little notepad doc with some tips from this topic for once I get myself a keyboard. I'm excited to dive into it once I move/finish this animation I've been working on. It'd be awesome to one day be able to compose my own music for my animations too; that's kind of my end goal with this. I want to be as multifaceted as I can as an artist.

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fohstick posted...

@Twin3Turbo

any tips on breaking the speed barrier? I have a simple song memorized, but I can never play it fast enough.

The trick is to play slowly and with a metronome. Similar to lifting weights, go up a bit at a time.

So for example, if you set a metronome to 30 and can do it perfectly multiple times in a row, set it to 35 and then do it, and then 40 and beyond. And then go to sleep and do some more the next day.

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masticatingman posted...

If you didnt start as a kid, Id strongly suggest learning almost any other instrument instead. Something about the pianos twin clefs makes it highly conducive to learning as a kid.

You think so? I didn't learn anything musical as a kid, but I'll probably shoot for this anyway. It's one of the instruments that I'm most drawn towards.

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masticatingman posted...

If you didnt start as a kid, Id strongly suggest learning almost any other instrument instead. Something about the pianos twin clefs makes it highly conducive to learning as a kid.

This is probably true, but to be fair its pretty much true of most things. Learning earlier as a kid is just better. There are plenty of good pianists that learned as an adult though. I didnt learn til I was 19. Kent Hewitt said he didnt start learning till he was like in his 40s or something like that. You can still become an adept player, but its almost impossible to become like a concert pianist or something like that if you dont start young

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

Thank you for all this! I'll try to keep a little notepad doc with some tips from this topic for once I get myself a keyboard. I'm excited to dive into it once I move/finish this animation I've been working on. It'd be awesome to one day be able to compose my own music for my animations too; that's kind of my end goal with this. I want to be as multifaceted as I can as an artist.

Oh I forgot one thing, I dont recommend anything less than an 88 key fully weighted keyboard, assuming you are serious about trying to learn

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Twin3Turbo posted...

You can still become an adept player, but its almost impossible to become like a concert pianist or something like that if you dont start young

I turn 30 in a couple months, but I don't have any sort of lofty aspirations with this anyway. I'm just aiming for competency.

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Twin3Turbo posted...

This is probably true, but to be fair its pretty much true of most things. Learning earlier as a kid is just better. There are plenty of good pianists that learned as an adult though. I didnt learn til I was 19. Kent Hewitt said he didnt start learning till he was like in his 40s or something like that. You can still become an adept player, but its almost impossible to become like a concert pianist or something like that if you dont start young

I'd say so.. you don't even need to be at the concert level to write great music.. guitarists have been doing fine without sight-reading for years :P

I second 88 keys just because it gives you the actual spacing for where your hands need to be (you'll learn about how notes repeat and how you can get away playing the same notes in a different octave if you have less keys; it just might not be the most practical way/comfortable way to facilitate that particular song)

But fully weighted? Depends. I'm a sucker for getting the feel of an OG piano.. I thought I'd have regrets about buying a Williams Allegro something 88-not weighted key.. but it's fantastic. My weighted keyboard has dead notes but by now my brain auto-fills the notes after I've heard it :(

88 Keys is a must imo, semi/fully weighted if you can - you only miss out on strength development, but your coordination and ability to facilitate will make it so you won't have much of a problem playing on an acoustic piano or weighted keyboard later on. It's like deciding to play acoustic guitar or electric guitar.. but that sort of choice really tests your ability to keep with an instrument because you will feel that difference.

Pus_N_Pecans posted...

You think so? I didn't learn anything musical as a kid, but I'll probably shoot for this anyway. It's one of the instruments that I'm most drawn towards.

That is what is important.
I am not sure about what Twin3Turbo said...He seems almost militant in his training.
Learn as a passion, not as a chore.
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RedJackson posted...

But fully weighted? Depends. I'm a sucker for getting the feel of an OG piano.. I thought I'd have regrets about buying a Williams Allegro something 88-not weighted key.. but it's fantastic. My weighted keyboard has dead notes but by now my brain auto-fills the notes after I've heard it :(
.

@RedJackson
First I respect you so don't think I'm coming at you, as it were.

I'd say so.. you don't even need to be at the concert level to write great music.. guitarists have been doing fine without sight-reading for years :P

If I could write the way I could play, I would be dangerous.
But ya, you can get away with way more on a guitar than a Piano.

I second 88 keys just because it gives you the actual spacing for where your hands need to be (you'll learn about how notes repeat and how you can get away playing the same notes in a different octave if you have less keys; it just might not be the most practical way/comfortable way to facilitate that particular song)

Not having 88 keys actually helped me. It taught me to say more with less...
Also and oddly what I had I think five octaves approximates what an average Clavichord has.

88 Keys is a must imo, semi/fully weighted if you can - you only miss out on strength development, but your coordination and ability to facilitate will make it so you won't have much of a problem playing on an acoustic piano or weighted keyboard later on. It's like deciding to play acoustic guitar or electric guitar.. but that sort of choice really tests your ability to keep with an instrument because you will feel that difference

That is all well and good, but now you are talking about real money.
And I find most normally priced keyboards with a faux pressure system just don't sound right.
Weighted is a whole other thing.

But the lack of dynamic with hard or soft 'attacks' helped me to fill out my sound I feel.
I had to create more color without that dynamic.
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I have a music education degree, and have played piano and percussion for close to 18 years.

Id recommend learning the basics of music theory/how to read music first.

www.musictheory.net

TONS of great resources there. You need to learn both bass and treble clef. Id focus just on your right hand first though, with treble clef.

Piano takes a good amount of coordination once you put both hands together, but it satisfies SUCH a wonderful musical itch I have. Very hands on, and tactile.

Be patient, and dont try to learn too fast. Stick to the fingerings that youre given in most beginner piano books. Using just LH and RH index fingers isnt how you you play piano lol

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SiO4 posted...

@RedJackson
First I respect you so don't think I'm coming at you, as it were.

If I could write the way I could play, I would be dangerous.
But ya, you can get away with way more on a guitar than a Piano.

Not having 88 keys actually helped me. It taught me to say more with less...
Also and oddly what I had I think five octaves approximates what an average Clavichord has.

That is all well and good, but now you are talking about real money.
And I find most normally priced keyboards with a faux pressure system just don't sound right.
Weighted is a whole other thing.

But the lack of dynamic with hard or soft 'attacks' helped me to fill out my sound I feel.
I had to create more color without that dynamic.

It's all good, I pretty much agree with everything you wrote - it IS a different beast all together.. especially in terms of sound.

I've always wanted an acoustic piano :(

My monitors + USB midi does let me get decent Steinway sounds though :)

MFBKBass5 posted...

I have a music education degree, and have played piano and percussion for close to 18 years.

Id recommend learning the basics of music theory/how to read music first.

www.musictheory.net

TONS of great resources there. You need to learn both bass and treble clef. Id focus just on your right hand first though, with treble clef.

Piano takes a good amount of coordination once you put both hands together, but it satisfies SUCH a wonderful musical itch I have. Very hands on, and tactile.

Be patient, and dont try to learn too fast. Stick to the fingerings that youre given in most beginner piano books. Using just LH and RH index fingers isnt how you you play piano lol

Thanks! Yeah, the coordination thing makes sense. I was mostly using one hand when I played over the weekend. As a kid I always thought about how great it'd be to be ambidextrous, but it takes a lot of training...

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

Thanks! Yeah, the coordination thing makes sense. I was mostly using one hand when I played over the weekend. As a kid I always thought about how great it'd be to be ambidextrous, but it takes a lot of training...

As a drummer, my non dominant hand struggles(my left hand) slightly compared to my right. Normal for most drummers. To combat it, I do a lot of things with my left hand I dont normally to do, just to break the hand dominance.

Brush my teeth left handed, open doors with left hand usually, etc...its a fun challenge for sure. Def cant write with my left tho

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RedJackson posted...

I'd say so.. you don't even need to be at the concert level to write great music.. guitarists have been doing fine without sight-reading for years :P

I second 88 keys just because it gives you the actual spacing for where your hands need to be (you'll learn about how notes repeat and how you can get away playing the same notes in a different octave if you have less keys; it just might not be the most practical way/comfortable way to facilitate that particular song)

But fully weighted? Depends. I'm a sucker for getting the feel of an OG piano.. I thought I'd have regrets about buying a Williams Allegro something 88-not weighted key.. but it's fantastic. My weighted keyboard has dead notes but by now my brain auto-fills the notes after I've heard it :(

88 Keys is a must imo, semi/fully weighted if you can - you only miss out on strength development, but your coordination and ability to facilitate will make it so you won't have much of a problem playing on an acoustic piano or weighted keyboard later on. It's like deciding to play acoustic guitar or electric guitar.. but that sort of choice really tests your ability to keep with an instrument because you will feel that difference.

Ha, my mom bought a Williams electric piano a few months ago, but I'm so used to playing on weighted keys that I hate it lol. Reason I recommend fully weight is because when I first started playing, I played exclusively on an electric piano with non-weighted keys, for quite some time. Then when I went to a real piano, I could barely even press the keys down. I just think it makes more sense to start weighted from the get go so that your fingers can gain the necessary strength from the jump. But obviously, if for whatever reason one can't gain access to a weighted keyboard, you have to work with what you have. I understand that probably the cheapest quality one is going to be around $500

SiO4 posted...

That is what is important.
I am not sure about what Twin3Turbo said...He seems almost militant in his training.
Learn as a passion, not as a chore.

Hmm, I guess I'm not sure what part you specifically disagree with. You can be passionate about something but still be strict and purposeful about how you develop that skill. But the main reason I mention the grinding thing is because when you get right down to it, basically all good pianists that I know personally or well known pianists have had to "grind" at some point or another in order to get good and there are tons of interviews and what not pointing to that. It's just true of most any skill to be honest. That doesn't take away from the passion part though.

That being said, I guess it also depends on how good you want to get or how fast you want to get there.

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RedJackson posted...

I've always wanted an acoustic piano :(

I played for about 19 or 20 years without one.
And the one I have now isn't anything special but it's nice to have.

Though I have to say, and not even joking my first Piano was a Schoenhut.
Exactly like this one...I can remember when my mom bought is at a garage sale.
I don't even think it was intended for me, but I was the one who adopted it.
That the baby piano I learned...because my older brother showed me, my first song..The meowmix theme.
I still have it, it is about 10 feet away from me, but, in another room!

https://imgur.com/CBn6AAS

Pus_N_Pecans posted...

Thanks! Yeah, the coordination thing makes sense. I was mostly using one hand when I played over the weekend. As a kid I always thought about how great it'd be to be ambidextrous, but it takes a lot of training...

It's just muscle memory, and it comes in time. Just don't try to get ahead of yourself. Let it come naturally. Scales in the right hand and Chords in the left is a perfectly fine way to start.
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Mmmm, because I just posted an ad on Newgrounds and I just made this topic earlier today, why not? I'll post that same ad here too in case anyone is interested in auditioning:

I'm starting to get close to finishing a new animation, so I thought now might be a good time to start searching for a musician here that could make a score for it. It's a queer romance/coming of age sort of story and I was thinking it would work well with a piano piece, or something relatively subdued since it's a pretty down to earth little short. The finished piece will probably clock in around 4 minutes I think, and I'd be willing to pay $50 to whoever would do the music for me.

Feel free to send me some samples of your work. I've got a pretty good sized clip here below f you want to get an idea of what it looks like in motion too (it's missing a few seconds here and there, which you'll see as a white screen)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ae6i5mhkmlbrsm/Us%20editing_Scene%201.mp4?dl=0

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Pus_N_Pecans posted...

Mmmm, because I just posted an ad on Newgrounds and I just made this topic earlier today, why not? I'll post that same ad here too in case anyone is interested in auditioning:

I'm starting to get close to finishing a new animation, so I thought now might be a good time to start searching for a musician here that could make a score for it. It's a queer romance/coming of age sort of story and I was thinking it would work well with a piano piece, or something relatively subdued since it's a pretty down to earth little short. The finished piece will probably clock in around 4 minutes I think, and I'd be willing to pay $50 to whoever would do the music for me.

Feel free to send me some samples of your work. I've got a pretty good sized clip here below f you want to get an idea of what it looks like in motion too (it's missing a few seconds here and there, which you'll see as a white screen)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ae6i5mhkmlbrsm/Us%20editing_Scene%201.mp4?dl=0

That sounds chill.
I don't have any samples of my work.
Only my cat and my neighbors get them.
Side note: I don't ever think I will ever be able to spell the word Neighbor...I do not know why but I have a mental block on the word.

Having said all that best wishes, and some here posted this a while back...But it's nice, and the music kinda seems like what you are looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=RtU8nBnpFVE
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Ive been playing for at least 25 years. I dont recall not knowing how to play.

I took formal lessons from 6-17. My interest truly took off when YouTube happened where I could learn and expand my horizons by learning from there. Id say my absolute peak was in my mid 20s, one reason being to impress a girl. when I entered my 30s I started playing original songs.

I used to teach piano as a side gig. Feel free to ask any questions.

My advice to you would be to learn the scales. Learn to love them.

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SiO4 posted...

That sounds chill.
I don't have any samples of my work.
Only my cat and my neighbors get them.
Side note: I don't ever think I will ever be able to spell the word Neighbor...I do not know why but I have a mental block on the word.

Having said all that best wishes, and some here posted this a while back...But it's nice, and the music kinda seems like what you are looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=RtU8nBnpFVE

Yeah, thats kinda what Im going for. All of my shorts have a montage sort of vibe to them to hide my lack of animating ability, so the music would serve to highlight different beats in the story.

Admiral_Zero posted...

Ive been playing for at least 25 years. I dont recall not knowing how to play.

I took formal lessons from 6-17. My interest truly took off when YouTube happened where I could learn and expand my horizons by learning from there. Id say my absolute peak was in my mid 20s, one reason being to impress a girl. when I entered my 30s I started playing original songs.

I used to teach piano as a side gig. Feel free to ask any questions.

My advice to you would be to learn the scales. Learn to love them.

Thanks! I still gotta copy paste some advice and names from in here so I can come back on it, but everyones been very helpful.

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I'll give this a bump in case anyone else has any more advice. I just got to jotting down some notes.

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It depends on what your goals are and what you want to be able to do. I've been playing for just over three years, but that was for about 2-3 hours daily, which is kind of a lot...with music theory study via textbooks and YouTube on top of that too. So I was kinda really, really into it. Now I'm backing off cuz of other life shit, but there's a lot to do. There are tons of modes and keys. I would say eventually if you want to really utilize the instrument, you should be able to play in any key. I can't do that yet. I'm just now starting to veer away from sheet music and get into just playing more by ear and learning songs through ear and then switching up the voicings and messing around that way. My technique / skill vastly exceeds my ear right now.

So I need to just listen and analyze stuff and try to replicate it on a keyboard. You can get into transposing and all types of stuff. I mean it can seem like a deeper endeavor the more you get into it, like a lot of deep shit, like science if you ever studied that in college to a serious extent. But anyway, you just have to dedicate yourself to practicing. Raw hours mean something, but time sleeping and thinking about music and stuff in between those practice hours also account for your brain picking up on it. So you just need to decide that you will be a pianist and then chip away at it daily no matter the amount of time...but 45 minutes should be a short day if you're going to practice at all.

If all you want to do is record a song and be able to say, "I'm a pianist" that's different than wanting to be a lounge pianist hahaha...or a music producer (which I would say is probaly way less demanding to be productive at as far as technique and piano practice alone goes).

Edit: In a sense I feel like I still suck. I learned songs like Fur Elise and can't remember them of course, unless I kept playing it daily. So I only know it in a broken sort of way. And my technique is fine, but because my ear isn't as informed as it could be, my hands can't work with it in unison yet. So it is like I'm chipping away at different abilities and facets of piano at the outer edges of a giant web, and gradually they are coming to meet in the center where it all becomes universally comprehensive, but still have not met in the center and connected everything together so that piano playing can be totally second nature.

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kinda* backing off (I can't edit my post for some reason).

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I'm learning piano now. Great indoor fun while we supposed to hide away from the scary covid.

Mostly just focusing on songs from the Zelda series. First song I learned fully was Midna's Lament, Zelda's Lullaby, and just got the keys down to OoT Title Theme. Using the Alfred Zelda music book. I chose the intermediate/expert one over the easy cause I wanted to challenge myself. The second half with the chords is messing me up, but I am improving each day. Where my hand just goes to the next chord without much thinking. Playing without looking and hitting the right keys is a good feeling.

I am still such a n00b though. I try to learn through sheet music, which is a real struggle to read and find the right hand placement based on what you're playing and what is coming up next. I supplement it with Youtube and hope i find a good video that has the same keys being using, since music is so adaptive people typically play it differently than what it shows on the sheet.

I'd like to get to the point where I can add my own flourish to the song to make it unique. I have no idea how to take a song on the sheet and change it but make it the same song.

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krazychao5 posted...

I'm learning piano now. Great indoor fun while we supposed to hide away from the scary covid.

Mostly just focusing on songs from the Zelda series. First song I learned fully was Midna's Lament, Zelda's Lullaby, and just got the keys down to OoT Title Theme. Using the Alfred Zelda music book. I chose the intermediate/expert one over the easy cause I wanted to challenge myself. The second half with the chords is messing me up, but I am improving each day. Where my hand just goes to the next chord without much thinking. Playing without looking and hitting the right keys is a good feeling.

I am still such a n00b though. I try to learn through sheet music, which is a real struggle to read and find the right hand placement based on what you're playing and what is coming up next. I supplement it with Youtube and hope i find a good video that has the same keys being using, since music is so adaptive people typically play it differently than what it shows on the sheet.

I'd like to get to the point where I can add my own flourish to the song to make it unique. I have no idea how to take a song on the sheet and change it but make it the same song.

You should probably be able to improv then fairly consistently (in any key) to add your own voicings to the songs you want to play. It might be a smart idea to at one point stick to one key to improv with for a while so that you can map out the keyboard and the how the degrees of a scale function for a key. Then eventually move to playing the actual key songs are in. Adding musical ornaments will be more of an issue with developing your technique, dexterity, and rhythm (e.g., if you want to add trills, mordents, and rubato).

Dont underestimate what your ear can become though. I spent a little too much time worrying about the reading and compositional aspect of music. I imagine for most professional musicians, playing is similar to typing on a computer keyboard. They just know how things will sound as they play and move from note to note, even when playing massive extended chords, and have no premeditation to put into their playing. So, they will barely have to worry about making mistakes while doing a complex improv.

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8-bit_Biceps posted...

It might be a smart idea to at one point stick to one key to improv with for a while so that you can map out the keyboard and the how the degrees of a scale function for a key. Then eventually move to playing the actual key songs are in.

I appreciate the advice. Nice to hear from people who know what they are talking about.

Could you please explain this part to this noob?

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Ohhh I would totally try and write something to that but most of what I have is super weird stuff. I wish I could write like that though.. totally goals to aspire to!

Hope you find someone :l

Two years before I felt competent. Then broke my hand and took another year to get back to feeling good about playing.

I'm no music expert, but learn how each note interval sounds, like how a major 3rd sounds compared to the root. This will help a ton with learning songs and eventually improv. Singing them helps too because you'll have a physical sensation to compare it to.

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krazychao5 posted...

I appreciate the advice. Nice to hear from people who know what they are talking about.

Could you please explain this part to this noob?

All the songs you play are based around either a major or minor key

The major key (scale) can be derrived from a formula from which the chords you are playing are created on. The C major chord for example (CEG) are derived from the C Major Scale (Key). To build any scale (whether that's major or minor) you start with one single tonic (homebase) and apply the formula of whole-steps and half-steps to build that key

For example, all white keys is the C Major scale (starting on C obv.)

C (whole-step here to the next note) D (whole-step) E (half-step) F (whole-step) G (whole-step) A (whole-step) B (half-step takes you back to C)**

If you applied this formula of whole steps and half steps to any letter note (flatted or sharped) you will always get a Major key sound. The way you derive the chords that all fit into this tonic that end up defining the roadmap of the song (the chords used) is by taking C for example, skipping a note, and using that next note (E), then skipping another note, and then using G

You can do this with the note D in this scale - skip one note, land on F, and skip another note, and then land on A

You may notice this chord in particular sounds 'sad', and that's because the distance between each note in particular (that is to say the intervals between each note D-F-A in terms of half-steps) so happen to produce a quality that is much darker than the intervals between C-E-G (the distances between these notes produce a major/happy sound). Studying intervals within itself is the basis for why we use the WWhWWWh** pattern to create a major scale, the distances simply lend themselves to produce a scale that eventually sounds 'finished'. The same applies to chords... C-E-G is a root, a major third (from the root - four half steps from the root), and a fifth interval (from the root - seven half steps from the root) while your chord built on the D feature a root, a minor third (from the root - three half steps from root), and a fifth interval (from the root again).

If you stacked all the notes in the key of C after making the major scale you have:

C-E-G
D-F-A
E-G-B
F-A-C
G-B-D
A-C-E
B-D-F
C-E-G (the octave, which is a term used to also describe an interval of 12 total half-steps)

*do not just start on a note, skip every other one in order of your actual keys on your keyboard, you must first build the scale using the formula of Whole steps and Half steps and then with those notes start skipping every other note to be within this particular key

The notes here are specific to C major, but if you tried this with the other notes, you will find that each scale actually produces the same chord for each note (in a major key, your first note ((tonic)) will always produce a major chord if you stacked it by skipping over one note, and your second note will always produce a minor chord, your third note another minor chord by stacking them)

Thus each major scale is described in roman numerals since they are essentially the same

I ii iii IV V vi vii (your 7th note will produce a special variance in it's structure which always results in a diminished chord in a major key) I (your eight note, which is the same as the first)

The capitalized are major chords, the lowercase are your minor chords. Chord progressions are built from just taking chords and playing them one after another. You may go I-IV-V or ii-V-I or iii-I-V-ii-IV-I, however you see fit, but since some chords contain the same notes as the previous one or the one after, certain chords sound more 'finished' or 'resolve' better. You can also invert these chords by taking the notes and just playing them in different orders C-E-G ---> E-G-C ---> G-C-E ---> E-E-C-G-E.

How you improv is dependent on your ability to see what note you currently have in your current chord

If you have C-E-G on your left hand, you can mirror it on your right hand and arpegiate it (play it separately) either in a descending fashion, ascending, or playing around with the order.. if you know your next chord is an F major chord (which would be your IV chord in the scale) you can create a melody that either visually leads ascending to the following notes of the next chord (F-A-C it has a 'C' from the previous note! That's why when you play your I chord, it sounds good with your IV chord after it) but as you train your ear, you'll find 'finishers' or melodic motifs that can really highlight the next chord.

Take a chord from the song you know, and play around with all the notes - some sound terrible, some sound better. You alleviate this by looking at the key signature of your sheet music, finding what key it is, building a major scale or a minor one and then with your entourage of notes using it to come up with different melodies with the roadmap you have.

If that seems confusing, it's because that's alot of condensed information - but it all makes sense once you try to work all this out on your own..

If you're a sheet reader I'd start by googling how to read a key signature to first figure your starting note/root/tonic

Then figure out how to build a major or minor scale

Build the chords using the notes in that scale

Looking at the chord your song starts on and then saying ok, this particular chord uses these notes, so I will play the melodic line I've learned and try to target those notes within the chord in some fashion or maybe descend/ascend part of the scale

Yeah, I am going to have to read that again. I thought that was what you meant by key, but was not certain how to actually build it out. I learned most major chords where i can play them with both hands, but I guess it just didn't really make sense to me what it represented. It's a lot of informaiton, but basically understanding the formulae WWhWWWh and WhWWhWW for natural minor will help me build the chords, because it is based on how many steps are between. If you don't know the scale, then the sound doesn't flow as well. It's so jarring playing and hitting the note that doesn't mesh and it's like a car wreck haha.

Basically I should create hand patterns to play certain chords so that they are transferable in any key? Finding the three and four note chords real tough to play. Took me a few days to get down that section in OoT Main Theme and I tend to sometimes play the chords with a bit of a trill. Basically the chords are tough to play haha This song is actually in the C Major scale and this chord progression is what tripped me up. Played 1/4 note and then 1/2 note each chord. Fun stuff I hear it as i typed it out. Left hand alternating playing F-C-F and G-D-B not as a chord but pattern of F-C-F-F-C-F. Felt good to be able to get my hands playing that in rythmn together. Still make plenty of mistakes, but it's becoming easier and sounding better each day.

C-E-A
A-C-E
G-B-D
B-D-G
C-E-A
A-C-E
D-G-B
B-D-G
C-E-A
A-C-E
G-B-D
B-D-G
Eb-G-C
C-Eb-G
Bb-D-F
Bb-D-G
D-F-A
E-G-B
F-A-C
G-B-D
A-C-E
B-D-F

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Again, if you struggle reading music or want to learn music WAY faster by learning about chord structures, go here:

www.musictheory.net

And use the lessons/exercises tabs. It walks you through basic music theory as you learn to read sheet music. Use it with my 6th grade students all the way up through high school seniors lol.

Incredibly valuable resource.

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krazychao5 posted...

Yeah, I am going to have to read that again. I thought that was what you meant by key, but was not certain how to actually build it out. I learned most major chords where i can play them with both hands, but I guess it just didn't really make sense to me what it represented. It's a lot of informaiton, but basically understanding the formulae WWhWWWh and WhWWhWW for natural minor will help me build the chords, because it is based on how many steps are between. If you don't know the scale, then the sound doesn't flow as well. It's so jarring playing and hitting the note that doesn't mesh and it's like a car wreck haha.

Basically I should create hand patterns to play certain chords so that they are transferable in any key? Finding the three and four note chords real tough to play. Took me a few days to get down that section in OoT Main Theme and I tend to sometimes play the chords with a bit of a trill. Basically the chords are tough to play haha This song is actually in the C Major scale and this chord progression is what tripped me up. Played 1/4 note and then 1/2 note each chord. Fun stuff I hear it as i typed it out. Left hand alternating playing F-C-F and G-D-B not as a chord but pattern of F-C-F-F-C-F. Felt good to be able to get my hands playing that in rythmn together. Still make plenty of mistakes, but it's becoming easier and sounding better each day.

Facilitation of impov requires you to get hand movements and coordination solid under your hands - learning to play the actual instrument and how to reach that note you hear or would like to hear

I'd advise that same website @MFBKBass5 musictheory.net as it's what I used. It won't go much into improv since that's a technique within itself, but it will make you more knowledgeable in terms of what to use and not use and really the building blocks of everything music

An easy hierarchy of how things are 'built' can be said as intervals --> scales --> chords

Almost like cells --> bones --> organs

You're right on the money as far as how it'll sound jarring, just one of those things that come with learning though and the good thing is that it doesn't really that long understand. You can learn all the foundations e-z, it's just creating that is the bane of every artist :,)

Are you learning that from sheet music by chance? The Key signature can immediately tell you what key the whole song is in.. sometimes songs change entire keys, but I'm pretty curious