Current Events > What is it about Bethesda games that make you want to replay them over and over

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's 2020 and I'm seriously giving thought to buying Skyrim AGAIN

It's an ancient game, riddled with bugs and problems and much puddle deepness

I have technically better, more complete, more focused games

Many prettier games

....But I want to make a sneak archer

What is that about?

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Only Morrowind does that for me. All their other games have been disappointments.

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For me personally, pinky, playing a Bethesda game through once is enough. Sometimes, more than enough.

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If a game is that fun at the end of the day, does it really matter how flawed it is?

Resident Evil 4 has had its mechanics and controls improved (slightly) in 5 and virtually perfected in 6, Revelations, Revelations 2, and the RE2/3 remakes and yet I still play the original game about once a year

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Hmm. Just enough RPG elements to make it interesting but only just enough.

A familiarity with the landscape also helps.

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immersion, maybe?

Not many games give you that. Maybe because it's pretty much the only first person RPG, and that's all there is to it.

I have a similar feeling playing Subnautica. Can't wait for the sequel to come out.

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Nobody else really makes open world games like them. Most open world games that try to copy them feel like cheap knock offs.

I don't know. I'm still playing the hell out of Fallout 4. Mostly for the settlement building, but it's still fun going around exploring and doing quests too.

I still play Skyrim when I get in the mood too. In their games I try to mix it up and do different characters though most of the time I end up being the same thing.

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pinky0926 posted...

immersion, maybe?

Not many games give you that. Maybe because it's pretty much the only first person RPG, and that's all there is to it.

The strange thing is that on paper Outer Worlds should have far more been amazing but it just didn't have whatever makes a Bethesda game so wondrous.

And the jank, Homer. The jank.

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PrideOfLion posted...

Every time I get the feeling for playing a Bethesda game, I always end up stopping after a couple hours. It's one of those things that sound better in my head than actually doing it

Also this!

70% of your time spent thinking about playing skyrim and all the fun things you're going to do
25% character creation
5% actually playing, until you realise that actually killing draugrs isn't that interesting

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pinky0926 posted...

Also this!

70% of your time spent thinking about playing skyrim and all the fun things you're going to do
25% character creation
5% actually playing, until you realise that actually killing draugrs isn't that interesting

Yup.

Every fucking time.


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pinky0926 posted...

Also this!

70% of your time spent thinking about playing skyrim and all the fun things you're going to do
25% character creation
5% actually playing, until you realise that actually killing draugrs isn't that interesting

I've experienced this as well. I started a new character on my brother's Switch. I wanted to build a pacifist bard type that only uses shouts and lets his companions do his fighting for him. Instead my guy would cower behind his shield while healing just to stay alive.

The imagination of the player greatly outranks what Bethesda was capable of presenting.

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Wii_Shaker posted...

I've experienced this as well. I started a new character on my brother's Switch. I wanted to build a pacifist bard type that only uses shouts and lets his companions do his fighting for him. Instead my guy would cower behind his shield while healing just to stay alive.

The imagination of the player greatly outranks what Bethesda was capable of presenting.

Exactly. Your best intentions of making an illusion type mage never works out when the magic isn't actually fun to use and you just get better results hitting things with a bow and arrow.

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If there's a secret to *this* I haven't discovered it yet.

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I love extra stuff to do in games. Side quests, leveling up, crafting, mini games, just generally more stuff to do, no matter how artificial.

Multitasking is weirdly my favorite thing to do in games, and while Bethesda games may be janky, they do deliver on that.
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pinky0926 posted...

5% actually playing, until you realise that actually killing draugrs isn't that interesting

I started playing again recently and this had been one of my primary complaints. But when I look at my characters body count, I actually kill way more people than Draugr. And its a huge margin.

i think the bigger problem with draugr is that players remember them most because every time you go into a tomb, you know exactly what youre getting. Stupid leveled draugr. Virtually no variations. Same problem with Dwemer ruins: dwarf robots in ancient draws ruins, then middle section of dark caves populated by Falmer, followed by dwarf ruins and the Giant Robo boss.

Skyrim suffers from the developers seeming inability to break this loop. I personally never felt this way with Morrowind... or even Oblivion, even though the most memorable thing there was invading oblivion gates and killing Daedra over and over.

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They really nail the exploration

They give you such a gigantic world and so many different things to do. The variety of character choices you have and type of playstyles.

Its far from the most polished game ever but think about it. What competes with it at that level? The only games that come to mind are Dragons Dogma, our Outward. But are riddled with their own Jank and are in many ways extremely limited by comparison.

Ive started so many different characters in Skyrim and its actually awesome how free it is. None of my characters play the same or occupy the map in the same way at all.

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meralonne posted...

I started playing again recently and this had been one of my primary complaints. But when I look at my characters body count, I actually kill way more people than Draugr. And its a huge margin.

i think the bigger problem with draugr is that players remember them most because every time you go into a tomb, you know exactly what youre getting. Stupid leveled draugr. Virtually no variations. Same problem with Dwemer ruins: dwarf robots in ancient draws ruins, then middle section of dark caves populated by Falmer, followed by dwarf ruins and the Giant Robo boss.

Skyrim suffers from the developers seeming inability to break this loop. I personally never felt this way with Morrowind... or even Oblivion, even though the most memorable thing there was invading oblivion gates and killing Daedra over and over.

I played the OOO/FCOM mod for Oblivion, and it was superb for this. Dungeons had a real sense of danger and risk to them. Ok, you can get by going into the first tier of the dungeons near the main paths and run into those basic beasties, but the deeper you go into the forest, the further down into the dungeon you go, the more likely you are to run into something really nasty. And in turn get something really valuable.

I loved that. I loved the feeling of terror when you went down into the depths and came across some hideous ancient beast. And the feeling that if you manage to beat him, or outsmart him in some way, you'll be rewarded in a consequential way. THAT is what the game should be about.

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Requiem is a pretty great overhaul for skyrim that makes places actually dangerous and "de levels" the world, so you can't just go take on Draugr/dwarven ruins straight away, giving combat some real danger as well.

But yeah, base Skyrim alone is addicting and then adding in all the plethora of mods you can find? Then the fact it is very easy to just jump into and do something as you like, without worrying about quests, makes it a nice and fun "pick up as you like" game.

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Have you ever played any of the Sureai Bethesda mods?

They're total conversion mods for the various Elder Scrolls games. They basically just use the engine to build up a brand new game. They do a damn good job too. The world design, writing, and voice acting is top notch.

If you're looking for a usual Bethesda game but want something new you might wanna give em a try

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Their world-building is exquisite, everything else they do is average at best

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Skyrim is a pretty mediocre game tbh

If you want a better Elder Scrolls game, play Daggerfall or Morrowind

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Bethesda makes garbage.

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Sex mods

I call them smods for short

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Probably the world's.

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I love the character building. Going from a weakling with a garbage sword and lame magic into a juggernaut with demonic weapons and godlike spells is awesome. Or from a guy in a blue suit with a pistol and crowbar into an armored badass with a sniper rifle, grenade launcher and Power Fist.

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pinky0926 posted...

It's 2020 and I'm seriously giving thought to buying Skyrim AGAIN

It's an ancient game, riddled with bugs and problems and much puddle deepness

I have technically better, more complete, more focused games

Many prettier games

....But I want to make a sneak archer

What is that about?

Nothing about Bethesda games give me this feeling.
I think you just like the game, or maybe you attribute to it some sort of mystifying-to-you mastery. Maybe you view it as art, and appreciate it for its flaws. Who knows.
I certainly don't feel that way, however. Best of luck to you

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Mecha Sonic posted...

Skyrim is a pretty mediocre game tbh

If you want a better Elder Scrolls game, play Daggerfall or Morrowind

Vanilla Skyrim is fun but gets old.

Daggerfall and Morrowind without mods are virtually unplayable by today's standards.


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Probably the investing hours and hours into a character, only to find out that the unique weapon you wanted the whole time is unavailable to you because you triggered obscure quest bug #23867 a few hours after starting.

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For me only mods. Bethesda do set up a good world that feel like it is lived in. However mods make the world feel really alive .

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Because Skyrim isn't super deep, I have to go hard on the role playing. Which means every couple of years I'll come up with the kinda character I want to be and play for 30 hours before my creative juices run dry.

Fun fact: Because the marriage mechanic is so shallow all of my characters eventually become very dissatisfied and ultimately resentful of their marriage. They are only still in it for the kids and look for any excuse to leave the house for weeks at a time.

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What other skyrim mods are best?

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Southernfatman posted...

I don't know. I'm still playing the hell out of Fallout 4. Mostly for the settlement building, but it's still fun going around exploring and doing quests too.

I still play Skyrim when I get in the mood too. In their games I try to mix it up and do different characters though most of the time I end up being the same thing.

I sometimes feel like the only person who enjoyed the settlement building in fo4. I never played with the dlc, maybe I should

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Or maybe just as with any video game as the great Gene RoddenBerry might say. It activated a part of our brain somewhat like a drug
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=is12anYx2Qs

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Confession

I've only ever played vanilla Skyrim >_>
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Balrog0 posted...

I sometimes feel like the only person who enjoyed the settlement building in fo4. I never played with the dlc, maybe I should

I love it. I was a big fan of The Sims back in the day so I've always liked building things. I just get sucked into building towns or big cities (for Fallout). I like having different themes or purposes for my settlements. Mods help tremendously.

The DLCs are alright, but nothing that spectacular.

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The bugs

CountDog posted...

Probably the world's.

This, it's definitely the worlds. Bethesda's games aren't all that deep or compelling on their own, but with the worlds so detailed and fun to explore, it provides an excellent template for mods to fill in the gaps of broken, shallow gameplay.

BignutzisBack posted...

Their world-building is exquisite, everything else they do is average at best

Ehh, no. Bethesda may be great at building worlds, but they are complete shit at "world building." They can stuff the game full of lore like there's no tomorrow, but they do very little or nothing at all to make the game world feel real. Since I'm playing Skyrim right now I'll use a few examples from it.

• College of Winterhold is supposed to be a place for elite wizards but you can become Arch Mage after doing mostly non magic related quests and knowing next to no spells.
• Kahjiit are not allowed in cities but if Dragonborn is Kahjiit no one says anything.
• Amulet of Mara is a symbol for people to settle down and show they are available for marriage yet you don't see anyone else wearing them
• Also everyone is apparently bisexual to the Dragonborn but there are no same sex couples in Skyrim.
• In the Dark Brotherhood, you can actually assassinate Emperor Tidus Mede and several other key characters, yet no one ever talks about this after the quest is over. It has no effect on life in Skyrim, the cities, or the Civil War story.
• During the civil war quest, enemy controlled cities still let you inside with no problems.
• The Companions supposedly have had no leader for 200 years as a point of pride and camaraderie, yet they all agree you should be the leader after like a week with no objections.
• Being the leader of any group or guild gives you only the prestige and none of the responsibilities. You don't give orders to anyone but they all still give orders to you like you're a rookie. And you have no further obligation to the guild at all, you can just come and go as you please.

There are many, many more examples of course, but Bethesda just has awful, awful worldbuilding with no thought put into the player experience.

I restarted Skyrim from scratch on the pc I built last week and installed a bunch of mods to see how much I could push it

Its still going strong as if it were the vanilla game so I guess I gotta go beyond. If I ever steam broadcasted my game though I'd be banned because I'm still trying to get all of the ass n tiddy under control

I'll probably remake my assassin mage from my previous run through since I had the most fun with that. Some of the spells I used were from mods but I can't remember which packages

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Annihilated posted...

This, it's definitely the worlds. Bethesda's games aren't all that deep or compelling on their own, but with the worlds so detailed and fun to explore, it provides an excellent template for mods to fill in the gaps of broken, shallow gameplay.

Ehh, no. Bethesda may be great at building worlds, but they are complete shit at "world building." They can stuff the game full of lore like there's no tomorrow, but they do very little or nothing at all to make the game world feel real. Since I'm playing Skyrim right now I'll use a few examples from it.

* College of Winterhold is supposed to be a place for elite wizards but you can become Arch Mage after doing mostly non magic related quests and knowing next to no spells.
* Kahjiit are not allowed in cities but if Dragonborn is Kahjiit no one says anything.
* Amulet of Mara is a symbol for people to settle down and show they are available for marriage yet you don't see anyone else wearing them
* Also everyone is apparently bisexual to the Dragonborn but there are no same sex couples in Skyrim.
* In the Dark Brotherhood, you can actually assassinate Emperor Tidus Mede and several other key characters, yet no one ever talks about this after the quest is over. It has no effect on life in Skyrim, the cities, or the Civil War story.
* During the civil war quest, enemy controlled cities still let you inside with no problems.
* The Companions supposedly have had no leader for 200 years as a point of pride and camaraderie, yet they all agree you should be the leader after like a week with no objections.
* Being the leader of any group or guild gives you only the prestige and none of the responsibilities. You don't give orders to anyone but they all still give orders to you like you're a rookie. And you have no further obligation to the guild at all, you can just come and go as you please.

There are many, many more examples of course, but Bethesda just has awful, awful worldbuilding with no thought put into the player experience.

I completely agree with this and sadly it feels like this is something that Bethesda has actually gotten worse at over time.

If I had it my way there would be very few to no factions that you would become the head of. It just feels illogical that someone who has done like 6 quest is now qualified to be the leader of any faction. Likewise the various factions would go back to having skill requirements. And being associated with some factions would bar you from others. Actually give reasons to run different characters or different builds.

And yeah races should have actual impact beyond racial bonuses. Being a Nord in Skyrim should be easier. Being a beast race or elf, particularly Altmer should be harder. Are you a Argoninan and want to go into Windhelm. Maybe you need to sneak about. Maybe you should learn some illusion magic to disguise yourself as a Nord. Even if you think that is too cumbersome, you should initially have to sneak to Ulfric and then have home give you and exemption because of services done for the Stormcloaks.

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nothing, because i am cursed to hate bad games and not pretend theyre good

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Compsognathus posted...

I completely agree with this and sadly it feels like this is something that Bethesda has actually gotten worse at over time.

If I had it my way there would be very few to no factions that you would become the head of. It just feels illogical that someone who has done like 6 quest is now qualified to be the leader of any faction. Likewise the various factions would go back to having skill requirements. And being associated with some factions would bar you from others. Actually give reasons to run different characters or different builds.

And yeah races should have actual impact beyond racial bonuses. Being a Nord in Skyrim should be easier. Being a beast race or elf, particularly Altmer should be harder. Are you a Argoninan and want to go into Windhelm. Maybe you need to sneak about. Maybe you should learn some illusion magic to disguise yourself as a Nord. Even if you think that is too cumbersome, you should initially have to sneak to Ulfric and then have home give you and exemption because of services done for the Stormcloaks.

Bethesda's philosophy basically seems to boil down to "sure, fuck it, play however you want" so they just let you do everything. Master every skill, get every perk, do every quest, marry any NPC, etc. And I can understand where they're coming from as players often invest so much time into a playthrough in one of their games. I must have spent almost 500 hours over the last six months on my current Skyrim character, so the prospect of being locked out of parts of the game until I start a new game from the beginning is a tall order and kind of exhausting to think about. But I am tired of trying to immerse myself in a world where actions don't have lasting consequences and the rules don't apply to me.

Annihilated posted...

Bethesda's philosophy basically seems to boil down to "sure, fuck it, play however you want" so they just let you do everything. Master every skill, get every perk, do every quest, marry any NPC, etc. And I can understand where they're coming from as players often invest so much time into a playthrough in one of their games. I must have spent almost 500 hours over the last six months on my current Skyrim character, so the prospect of being locked out of parts of the game until I start a new game from the beginning is a tall order and kind of exhausting to think about. But I am tired of trying to immerse myself in a world where actions don't have lasting consequences and the rules don't apply to me.

Oh I do understand their philosophy there. I can also understand how most players probably just give Skyrim one playthrough so they just want to knock it all out at once. I just personally love it myself.

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Because new mods come out that continue to make the game better and better.

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Bad_Mojo posted...

Because new mods come out that continue to make the game better and better.

psssst

SureAI

seriously Nehrim and Enderal as good as the base games

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teepan95 posted...

Confession

I've only ever played vanilla Skyrim >_>

I threw up.

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I don't ever replay Bethesda games-- I usually don't even finish them. The worlds are fun to get lost in, but the main plots usually suck so I tend to do everything other than advance the story.

Sphyx posted...

Probably the investing hours and hours into a character, only to find out that the unique weapon you wanted the whole time is unavailable to you because you triggered obscure quest bug #23867 a few hours after starting.

In Morrowind, my favorite merchant has Morrie's Left Glove. For the past few years I've been trying to figure out how to extract the glove without aggravating them. I might be able to swap an Extravagant Left Glove for it, but I think that only a glove with better stats would work. :'/

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bethesda games don't do that for me

obsidian, however...

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