Poll of the Day > Month of the Ogre 10: What's with obscure hidden mechanics in RPGs?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sometimes it's fun, most the time it's BS

In Ogre Battle there's lots of hidden mechanics, like how the day/night cycle affects combat, compatability values (for the most part), Golem upgrading in OB64

I mean, Pokemon has its IV/EV system which is meant to be a soft-secret, but everyone knows it I guess.

Zodiac Spear in FF12... ok, FF12 has LOTS of hidden mechanics related to the Hunts, but they all have big clues you can get from completing monster compendiums or talking to the other Hunters on the Phon Coast, making it more like a HUNT.

Lots of RPGs have hidden relationship values, but they tend not to affect gameplay

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the shit they did in ff12 was ridiculous

oh you opened this random chest? haha fuck you you cant have the ultimate weapon

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I think usually it's an effort to add a certain degree of unpredictability to the game. That usually gets thwarted by communities tearing games apart to attain complete control over them, but for the average player who doesn't look stuff up, hidden mechanics mean a given playthrough may end up being a different experience without them needing to consciously seek such a thing out.

Now, it does often happen that such mechanics end up taking too much control away from players who don't research and effectively gating chunks of content behind the wiki. That's not great design.

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Lokarin posted...

In Ogre Battle there's lots of hidden mechanics, like how the day/night cycle affects combat, compatability values (for the most part), Golem upgrading in OB64

I don't know Ogre Battle 64, but everyone keeps saying that Ogre Battle (SNES) doesn't tell you these things, but I knew about them before the internet, at least partially. I think the info was just in the manual and other charts that came with the game, not in the game itself. (I don't think it told you very *thoroughly*, but it was definitely mentioned enough that you knew what to look for and what to do while playing, with the ability to work out the details more specifically by paying attention to what changes.)

I could also be wrong, too, because I haven't played the game in 20+ years; it's possible that I knew this either solely by playing the game and figuring it out, or else maybe from a different source like a Nintendo Power or friend, but I don't remember that. (It's also possible it *is* in the game and you guys are exaggerating this...)

(even just the word "compatibility"... I'm pretty sure that word comes *specifically* from the game content. even if the word doesn't, it does specifically tell you that you probably don't want to use misaligned units together, I just can't remember how. Isn't the first mission basically a tutorial or something?)

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Sahuagin posted...

I don't know Ogre Battle 64, but everyone keeps saying that Ogre Battle (SNES) doesn't tell you these things, but I knew about them before the internet, at least partially. I think the info was just in the manual and other charts that came with the game, not in the game itself. (I don't think it told you very *thoroughly*, but it was definitely mentioned enough that you knew what to look for and what to do while playing, with the ability to work out the details more specifically by paying attention to what changes.)

I could also be wrong, too, because I haven't played the game in 20+ years; it's possible that I knew this either solely by playing the game and figuring it out, or else maybe from a different source like a Nintendo Power or friend, but I don't remember that. (It's also possible it *is* in the game and you guys are exaggerating this...)

(even just the word "compatibility"... I'm pretty sure that word comes *specifically* from the game content. even if the word doesn't, it does specifically tell you that you probably don't want to use misaligned units together, I just can't remember how. Isn't the first mission basically a tutorial or something?)

Compatability isn't discussed ingame until at least mission 16 I think... as a hint as to how to use the Princess class.

But once you're aware of it you can see it, for example - put a knight, a beastmaster and a griffon in the same party and look at the griffon's stats. Then change the party leader between the knight and beastmaster and you can see the Griffon's stats change in real time. The Princess hint is that a Princess leader gives everyone an extra attack.

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reading a PDF of the manual, here are some quotes. these are not very specific, but they give you the gist:

Reputation meter: This meter shows what the people of the area think of you. You may play Ogre Battle without regard for the opinion of the populace, but the storyline will be adversely affected if the meter falls too low.

To build a good reputation with the people of the area, liberate cities with a party of high Alignment.

Characters of lower Alignment and those with muscle should go out and take care of the enemy troops.

Build parties with characters of a common terrain type, and send them to fight in the most suitable areas.

Keep in mind that the people don't like a bully! Your reputation will suffer if you wipe out units that are weaker than yours. Fight the tough ones, and you'll gain respect.

Check if this unit is stronger or weaker than yours. Fight enemies stronger than you to gain experience points. If Enemy units are weak, use one of your own weaker units.

Landscape effect: Form units whose members have common terrain perferences, then send the mountain, plains, and water units to areas in which they fight most effectively.

Night or Daytime Battle: Characters of high alignment fight better in the day time, and those of low alignment prefer the night.

Don't Be a Bully, Check Your Level: If a good reputation concerns you, be careful who you fight. If you must fight enemies weaker than your party, one option is to defeat only their leader.

there are small tutorials for each mission up to Stage 6, and there is a map of all the stages and how they link to each other and where the shortcuts/secrets are.

it tells you the various factors that affect the ending, including the fact that you have to get all of the secret items to get the best ending.

I know that it gets two things wrong here, which me and my brother learned just by playing: 1) killing lower and higher level enemies changes your alignment, not your reputation. 2) *standing* in a city is enough to affect your reputation based on the army's alignment, not just liberating it. my brother figured this out, whereas I had played it thinking that it was just liberation that mattered, and had a frustrating time trying to keep my rep up.

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