Current Events > Uhoh Bernie rejects defunding the police

(+) Yeah! (+)

What are the Closet Trumpers....I mean Bernie bros gonna do now?

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It would probably do you some good to listen to nuance and think for yourself instead of getting focused on bumper sticker slogans.

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Anticyclonic posted...

It would probably do you some good to listen to nuance and think for yourself instead of getting focused on bumper sticker slogans.

let me guess, Bernie was lying to fool us or some covert action

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Bernie too honest for his own good

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The dustbin of history awaits!

But less flippantly: this moment really is not about a 78 year old senator from Vermont. It's bad that someone who has positioned himself as the left edge of the possible in American politics has been so quiet during this moment of mass unrest, and perhaps speaks to a broader blindspot he has on issues involving race. His willingness to take unpopular stances has some curious limits.

But this shit is happening with or without him; nobody's looking towards him for guidance.
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Anticyclonic posted...

It would probably do you some good to listen to nuance and think for yourself instead of getting focused on bumper sticker slogans.

Bumper sticker slogans are already too much reading for him.

are stockholmcrats this desperate now that they are now saying the progressive party is alt right?

jfc
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Wait till you find out the Sanders supporters aren't the cult you thought they were.

ThisGuyAreSick posted...

are stockholmcrats this desperate now that they are now saying the progressive party is alt right?

jfc

Alt leftists: "You don't support this thing I just thought of, you're out of the party!"
Also alt leftists: "Republicans are moving more to the right!"

Annihilated posted...

Alt leftists: "You don't support this thing I just thought of, you're out of the party!"
Also alt leftists: "Republicans are moving more to the right!"

they aren't alt-left

they are simply centrist/moderate democrats. they pretend to be left but really they just care about their favorite neoliberal getting into office

problem is that if someone is truly on the left and spews this shit that they were literally stockholm'd by the DNC. kinda sad really.
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ThisGuyAreSick posted...

they aren't alt-left

they are simply centrist/moderate democrats. they pretend to be left but really they just care about their favorite neoliberal getting into office

problem is that if someone is truly on the left and spews this shit that they were literally stockholm'd by the DNC. kinda sad really.

Who are you even talking about right now?

JBaLLEN66 posted...

let me guess, Bernie was lying to fool us or some covert action

Um..no, part of what he said was:

I didnt call for more money for police departments. I called for police departments that have well-educated, well-trained, well-paid professionals. And, too often around this country right now, you have police officers who take the job at very low payment, dont have much education, dont have much training and I want to change that, he continued.

That's a statement I agree with. As I outlined in another topic several days ago, I think that requiring law enforcers to have better education is one of the many things that need to change. This is in addition to better training that is less aggressive, and cutbacks elsewhere. For instance, the militarization and overpatrolling should be cut back. Its a complex issue that really can't be summarized in one sentence. I'm not a fan of the wording of "Defund police" because it is easily misrepresented and leaves out a lot of the nuance, but I do support what the movement is trying to accomplish overall. Cutbacks need to be made, but they need to be made in the right place, or nothing will change.
Now, are you capable of responding to THAT thought with anything productive or are you only focusing on sentences from protest signs?

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Anticyclonic posted...

Um..no, part of what he said was:

I didnt call for more money for police departments. I called for police departments that have well-educated, well-trained, well-paid professionals. And, too often around this country right now, you have police officers who take the job at very low payment, dont have much education, dont have much training and I want to change that, he continued.

That's a statement I agree with. As I outlined in another topic several days ago, I think that requiring law enforcers to have better education is one of the many things that need to change. This is in addition to better training that is less aggressive, and cutbacks elsewhere. For instance, the militarization and overpatrolling should be cut back. Its a complex issue that really can't be summarized in one sentence. I'm not a fan of the wording of "Defund police" because it is easily misrepresented and leaves out a lot of the nuance, but I do support what the movement is trying to accomplish overall. Cutbacks need to be made, but they need to be made in the right place, or nothing will change.
Now, are you capable of responding to THAT thought with anything productive or are you only focusing on sentences from protest signs?

so are you going to vote for Trump?

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Annihilated posted...

Who are you even talking about right now?

people like TC
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ThisGuyAreSick posted...

people like TC

yep, Im a centrist because I dont support radical left wing revolution

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

so are you going to vote for Trump?

If "Im gonna vote Trump because police need better training" is what you took from that then you're stupid. Sorry to say.
Lol
I'm out, since you're not intelligent enough to discuss the topic that YOU created.

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Anticyclonic posted...

If "Im gonna vote Trump because police need better training" is what you took from that then you're stupid. Sorry to say.
Lol
I'm out, since you're not intelligent enough to discuss the topic that YOU created.

So you are a closet Trump supporter Lmao

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Wouldn't reallocating the funds that we already have for the police be a viable solution?

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

So you are a closet Trump supporter Lmao

I'm not voting for Trump, you illiterate piece of shit. READ!

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

So you are a closet Trump supporter Lmao

Damn you really proved the veracity of that users last post with this one
Lmao

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Anticyclonic posted...

I'm not voting for Trump, you illiterate piece of shit. READ!

are you voting for Biden?

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Bernies opinions dont matter anymore. He lost. Now hes just a random senator from Vermont.
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EffectAndCause posted...

Bernies opinions dont matter anymore. He lost. Now hes just a random senator from Vermont.

If Bernie had a legitimate supporter base, I would take him more seriously

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Anticyclonic posted...

If "Im gonna vote Trump because police need better training" is what you took from that then you're stupid. Sorry to say.
Lol
I'm out, since you're not intelligent enough to discuss the topic that YOU created.

TC is a holocaust denier, so you were never going to get a sensible argument from them.

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it's such a stupid discussion. there's like no clear direction for the "movement" right now. some people want to abolish police entirely, some people want to REDUCE funding (not defund which implies making them privatized or just abolishing), some people want to keep them the same, some want more funding.

it's insane. some cops are shitty. lets add some public accountability measures and de escalation training. let's have a discussion about the role of police. not just be "ALL COPS ARE RACIST WE MUST MAKE OUR OWN SOCIETY LIKE LORD OF THE FLIES"

btw Chaz is basically a reality show and i'm enjoying watching it

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JBaLLEN66 posted...

yep, Im a centrist because I dont support radical left wing revolution

wanting basic human rights for all is a radical left wing revolution now apparently
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"Bernie was the compromise," as the saying goes.

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ThisGuyAreSick posted...

wanting basic human rights for all is a radical left wing revolution now apparently

what basic human rights am I missing out on right now

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bloodydeath0 posted...

it's such a stupid discussion. there's like no clear direction for the "movement" right now. some people want to abolish police entirely, some people want to REDUCE funding (not defund which implies making them privatized or just abolishing), some people want to keep them the same, some want more funding.

it's insane. some cops are shitty. lets add some public accountability measures and de escalation training. let's have a discussion about the role of police. not just be "ALL COPS ARE RACIST WE MUST MAKE OUR OWN SOCIETY LIKE LORD OF THE FLIES"

btw Chaz is basically a reality show and i'm enjoying watching it

No, see, let me ask you something: do you think murdering George Floyd was the first bad thing Derek Chauvin did on the job? There were, what...three other cops who watched him murder a dude while he begged for his life, and they stood around and did nothing. They just let Derek Chauvin straight-up murder a guy, and here's the thing: those cops aren't the exception to the rule, they are the rule.
And, of course, Chauvin had a long record of abuse, and was actually referred for prosecution over an earlier incident, but he was never prosecuted, because our political and legal culture is so subservient to and protective of cops that it's perfectly feasible Chauvin will be acquitted for murder even though we have video of it happening.

Stuff like this happens every day, all across the country. This is how the system works, that's why the system needs to be torn down and reimagined and rebuilt from scratch.

Also, TC? When Bernie says something that's wrong, he's wrong. It's really easy to understand!

JBaLLEN66 posted...

what basic human rights am I missing out on right now

depends

are you white?
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ElatedVenusaur posted...

Stuff like this happens every day, all across the country. This is how the system works, that's why the system needs to be torn down and reimagined and rebuilt from scratch.

You can say this about pretty much every institution that exists. What you actually need to do is convincingly demonstrate a solution that is feasible and isn't you know, just the same institution with a new fancy candy coating.

Which is not what this movement is doing. Pretty much you have politicians saying "here are some reforms that can get us in a better place"
And you have people yelling in response "no tear it all down".

There's a reason no serious politician is engaging with this.

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ThisGuyAreSick posted...

depends

are you white?

black lol


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ElatedVenusaur posted...

No, see, let me ask you something: do you think murdering George Floyd was the first bad thing Derek Chauvin did on the job? There were, what...three other cops who watched him murder a dude while he begged for his life, and they stood around and did nothing. They just let Derek Chauvin straight-up murder a guy, and here's the thing: those cops aren't the exception to the rule, they are the rule.
And, of course, Chauvin had a long record of abuse, and was actually referred for prosecution over an earlier incident, but he was never prosecuted, because our political and legal culture is so subservient to and protective of cops that it's perfectly feasible Chauvin will be acquitted for murder even though we have video of it happening.

Stuff like this happens every day, all across the country. This is how the system works, that's why the system needs to be torn down and reimagined and rebuilt from scratch.

Also, TC? When Bernie says something that's wrong, he's wrong. It's really easy to understand!

okay so quit saying defund the police because thats stupid af

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ElatedVenusaur posted...

No, see, let me ask you something: do you think murdering George Floyd was the first bad thing Derek Chauvin did on the job? There were, what...three other cops who watched him murder a dude while he begged for his life, and they stood around and did nothing. They just let Derek Chauvin straight-up murder a guy, and here's the thing: those cops aren't the exception to the rule, they are the rule.
And, of course, Chauvin had a long record of abuse, and was actually referred for prosecution over an earlier incident, but he was never prosecuted, because our political and legal culture is so subservient to and protective of cops that it's perfectly feasible Chauvin will be acquitted for murder even though we have video of it happening.

Stuff like this happens every day, all across the country. This is how the system works, that's why the system needs to be torn down and reimagined and rebuilt from scratch.

Also, TC? When Bernie says something that's wrong, he's wrong. It's really easy to understand!

None of what you're describing is "defunding" and Ok and if this happens then whatever is built from scratch, better have individuals who are well educated and their mental health well taken care of.


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Anticyclonic posted...

None of what you're describing is "defunding" and Ok and if this happens then whatever is built from scratch, better have individuals who are well educated and their mental health well taken care of.

Oh no, defunding is actually a vital part of the solution!
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/defund-police/612682/

The U.S. invests obscene amounts of money into its military and law enforcement, while spending relatively paltry sums on social welfare(here meant in the broadest sense: not just public assistance programs, but also education, rehabilitation programs, etc.) This is true at all levels of government. Many towns make ends meet through the aggressive assessment of fines and civil asset forfeiture, "taxes" that disproportionately affect the poor. It's rotten all the way up and down.

Bernie is from new york city. He's seen firsthand how bad things can get without a police presence.

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Again, defunding does not mean complete elimination of the concept of law enforcement. Its such a simple thing that so many people seem to have trouble understanding here.

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ElatedVenusaur posted...

Oh no, defunding is actually a vital part of the solution!
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/defund-police/612682/

The U.S. invests obscene amounts of money into its military and law enforcement, while spending relatively paltry sums on social welfare(here meant in the broadest sense: not just public assistance programs, but also education, rehabilitation programs, etc.) This is true at all levels of government. Many towns make ends meet through the aggressive assessment of fines and civil asset forfeiture, "taxes" that disproportionately affect the poor. It's rotten all the way up and down.

the issue is a lot of people agree with this but dont agree with the anarchism portrayed in the message of defund the police

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