Current Events > Corona survivor gets 181 page hospital bill. 1.1 million dollars.

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's also the best healthcare in the world.

As I said earlier, what will it take for the people to ask for health care change? How many more stories like this do we have to read about? Or in a similar vein how many more stories do we have to read where an individual or family are financially ruined because of insurance and health care costs?

What needs to happen before well actually demand change from out lawmakers?

I thought Corona peeps weren't going to have to pay

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Have insurance and you won't be ruined. It's irresponsible to not have insurance. You don't drive without car insurance, why would you live without health insurance

Billy__Beane posted...

You don't drive without car insurance

Oh you poor poor soul.

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don't bite Billy's weak ass bait, guys

treewojima posted...

Road maintenance isn't a good analogy, because it's typically contracted to private companies

And if healthcare is still done privately it's still a good analogy. And if it's done with private companies, shouldn't the people paying them hold them accountable?

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Not having health insurance is gambling in ur own health. Sorry but ur responsible for ur own financial outcome.

Crazyman93 posted...

treewojima posted...

Road maintenance isn't a good analogy, because it's typically contracted to private companies

And if healthcare is still done privately it's still a good analogy. And if it's done with private companies, shouldn't the people paying them hold them accountable?

Pray tell, how do we hold our private health insurance companies accountable?

The free market still works tho.

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Trickfinger posted...

thats not that much

Dafuq?

I work claims and bills comparable are those where the patients stay for months in the hospital with 100k-200k being the average per month. 1.1 million does seem like a lot for what probably was a 1 or 2 month stay...unless he got various transplants.

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And to address one very particular argument I hear again changing healthcare, some say so what? The person never ends up paying that bill.

Even if its true and the person doesnt even pay a penny of a ludicrous health care bill, it still needs to change because the person who gets the bill is usually left completely in the dark, and they have to stress out to no end making phone calls to the hospital, insurance companies, and whatever else is involved. And we all know how awful customer support is for insurance and hospitals.

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

The free market still works tho.

works for insurers and drug companies

also its not a free market. people realistically only have access to the plans their employer subsidizes and the providers/medications those plans cover, and are priced out of anything else. single payer or public option allows access to far more providers.

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TheVipaGTS posted...

This is also why I laugh when those against health care use the so what?! Other countries have to wait to be taken care of! argument. So, I have to wait a week or two longer, or Im in the hole for hundreds of thousands, potentially in the millions....its not like if your sitting there dying theyll turn you away. The fact that people fight better health care that will also benefit them is absurd to me.

I don't have insurance, so my wait time is "forever." Unless I am literally about to die, I can't go to the doctor. I wish I could just wait a few weeks (which, fun fact, you still have to wait in our system).

BroodRyu posted...

And to address one very particular argument I hear again changing healthcare, some say so what? The person never ends up paying that bill.

Even if its true and the person doesnt even pay a penny of a ludicrous health care bill, it still needs to change because the person who gets the bill is usually left completely in the dark, and they have to stress out to no end making phone calls to the hospital, insurance companies, and whatever else is involved. And we all know how awful customer support is for insurance and hospitals.

This happened to one of my friends recently. She's on the hook for 15k despite having insurance and having met her deductible. Fuck our evil and predatory "healthcare" system.

And yet the asshole substitute pharmacist I worked with all week kept going on and on about how Trump needs to win because otherwise universal healthcare will happen and destroy the economy.

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Billy__Beane posted...

Not having health insurance is gambling in ur own health. Sorry but ur responsible for ur own financial outcome.

Thats very naive. Before the affordable care act (obamacare) there were dozens of millions uninsured. self pay individual policies are expensive (hundreds per person), employer based policies which is the most common form of insurance still takes a huge chunk out of your salary and could mean hundreds out of each paycheck for a whole family covered. Then theres medicaid for low income which should be your last resort as insurance.

So sometimes its not about irresponsibility, but simply just being out of reach for a lot of Americans.

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Billy__Beane posted...

Have insurance and you won't be ruined.

Oh you sweet naive child

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The one question I dont know the answer to: in a single payer system, how does that affect healthcare worker jobs?

It just cant work its impossible!
*here are examples of other countries doing it just fine*
ok but if we pretend that doesnt exist, its impossible!!

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I am more frightened of this than the actual virus. Its also the only component of pandemic control that no relevant figure has addressed.

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BroodRyu posted...

The one question I dont know the answer to: in a single payer system, how does that affect healthcare worker jobs?

Look at literally any other first world country. Still plenty of healthcare worker jobs.

Come back with a real and honest question next time.

Ex-Kefiroth posted...

How do the people working the billing departments at these hospitals live with their miserable selves?

With the pennies on the dollar that they end up actually getting after the insurance companies "negociate", which is the entire reason they have to charge what they do in the first place.

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_Rinku_ posted...

Look at literally any other first world country. Still plenty of healthcare worker jobs.

Come back with a real and honest question next time.

If you read my previous posts you can see Im very clearly in favor of a single payer system. All Im saying is I dont have all the answers. I dont appreciate the attitude.

This is why Im terrified of getting like really sick or an injury or something.

MURICA

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BroodRyu posted...

If you read my previous posts you can see Im very clearly in favor of a single payer system. All Im saying is I dont have all the answers. I dont appreciate the attitude.

Really says something about how prevalent the "just asking questions" strategy to sow seeds of doubt around an argument is.

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I'll happily keep paying higher taxes up here in Canada for the peace of mind of knowing I won't have to mortgage my house if something happens to me.

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treewojima posted...

Pray tell, how do we hold our private health insurance companies accountable?

I meant road contractors. And as someone pointed out, what's to stop the government from private contracting healthcare the same way?

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BroodRyu posted...

If you read my previous posts you can see Im very clearly in favor of a single payer system. All Im saying is I dont have all the answers. I dont appreciate the attitude.

Maybe you should educate yourself then. Read my post for a good start.

I dont appreciate the attitude.

BroodRyu posted...

I dont appreciate the attitude.

And I don't appreciate people who come in with dishonest questions that betray that they're either bad faith actors or haven't done their research.

Dishonest questions? What the hell are you on about?

We both seem to support the same thing so why the attitude?

Ouch on those bills , I couldnt imagine putting my life in hands of scum bag insurance companies.

You know if I were the health care industry I'd be going pretty hard towards Democrats right now. Being obligated to cover pre-existing conditions is probably nothing compared to the bills they're getting because the right thinks COVID-19 is a conspiracy from Bill Gates to inject everyone with microchips.

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BroodRyu posted...

Dishonest questions? What the hell are you on about?

We both seem to support the same thing so why the attitude?

Asking "but what about the workers" is the dishonest question. A little bit of research would have given you your answer. This kind of question is the sort of tactic that people who oppose healthcare as a right use. You're playing their role for them when you ask it.

Be more mindful of what you say if you don't want people to think you're Just Asking Questions again. It's exhausting to deal with people who are employing it as an adversarial tactic; we don't need it on our side too.

_Rinku_ posted...

Asking "but what about the workers" is the dishonest question. A little bit of research would have given you your answer. This kind of question is the sort of tactic that people who oppose healthcare as a right use. You're playing their role for them when you ask it.

Be more mindful of what you say if you don't want people to think you're Just Asking Questions again. It's exhausting to deal with people who are employing it as an adversarial tactic; we don't need it on our side too.

I dont agree with a single thing youve said. I fully support single payer system. I see zero issue with the question I asked. I was looking for a respectful discussion. Im not afraid to say I dont have 100% of the answers. Thats the last thing I have to say to you regarding the subject.

I found this same article on foxnews.com and the comments are savage lol.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/seattle-man-70-beats-coronavirus-then-gets-1-1m-hospital-bill-report-says

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BroodRyu posted...

I dont agree with a single thing youve said. I fully support single payer system. I see zeroissue with the question I asked I was looking for a respectful discussion. Im not afraid to say I dont have 100% of the answers. Thats the last thing I have to say to you regarding the subject.

The fact that you can't see the problem is, well, your problem. I can't force you to improve or to adapt. This really just reinforces my point though, you know? It's not a good look for you.

MutantJohn posted...

I found this same article on foxnews.com and the comments are savage lol.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/seattle-man-70-beats-coronavirus-then-gets-1-1m-hospital-bill-report-says

Ah, the comments section of a news article; truly no greater cesspit exists.

There used to be a statewide newspaper in my state that had a notoriously toxic comment section. Lots of people gladly offering up their faces to the Leopards Eating My Face party to "own the libs." Some people have no humanity.

If most of the country doeasnt want to pay extra in taxs then it simply is what it is. Work on finding employment of some kind with health insurance, apply for Medicare/Medicaid and go on with your life, or eat the cost and run away from collections for the next 7 years.

Which if you're young or old enough may not matter.

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Prismsblade posted...

If most of the country doeasnt want to pay extra in taxs then it simply is what it is. Work on finding employment of some kind with health insurance, apply for Medicare/Medicaid and go on with your life, or eat the cost and run away from collections for the next 7 years.

Which if you're young or old enough may not matter.

Most of the country ends up paying for it anyway. People are just stubborn and don't want to help each other out even if it would be a net positive. Real "fuck you, I got mine" attitude even if they still haven't gotten theirs.

TheVipaGTS posted...

This is also why I laugh when those against health care use the so what?! Other countries have to wait to be taken care of! argument. So, I have to wait a week or two longer, or Im in the hole for hundreds of thousands, potentially in the millions....its not like if your sitting there dying theyll turn you away. The fact that people fight better health care that will also benefit them is absurd to me.

Yeah people seem to not really understand the sheer magnitude of healthcare costs in America vs the slightly inconvenient wait times in any country with a good healthcare system. I guess Americans in general don't really know what goes on in countries not America. Otherwise, there would be some pretty serious protests instead of just taking it in the bum every time.

My parents always go to Korea to get treated. Not only do they actually wait about 2 weeks less compared to America (lol), the plane ticket there is 1/10 the cost they would've had to pay for the treatment, not to mention the cost of treatment itself is even less than that. They're American citizens atm to boot so... wow, great system

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legendarylemur posted...

Yeah people seem to not really understand the sheer magnitude of healthcare costs in America vs the slightly inconvenient wait times in any country with a good healthcare system. I guess Americans in general don't really know what goes on in countries not America. Otherwise, there would be some pretty serious protests instead of just taking it in the bum every time.

My parents always go to Korea to get treated. Not only do they actually wait about 2 weeks less compared to America (lol), the plane ticket there is 1/10 the cost they would've had to pay for the treatment, not to mention the cost of treatment itself is even less than that. They're American citizens atm to boot so... wow, great system

That's actually part of why so many people are outraged at the idea of "socialized medicine." They think that they would be financing $150/pill Tylenol and $10k births when those are both astronomically inflated prices that do not exist in other countries.

Yeah it's not like taxes are astronomically bigger in other countries either. In a lot of sense, they're probably paying less portion of the tax for health related portions than America pays for their insurance. Korea's cost of treatment is also lower without citizenship or insurance than America's typical coinsurance on an insurance a typical middle class family would have.

There's this sense that insurance is somehow saving them a ton of money on the bill, but it's honestly all an illusion. Healthcare is actually really fucking expensive even with a typical insurance in America. We're not a rich family and we would still rather go to Korea. They also have better educated doctors btw lol

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legendarylemur posted...

Yeah it's not like taxes are astronomically bigger in other countries either. In a lot of sense, they're probably paying less portion of the tax for health related portions than America pays for their insurance. Korea's cost of treatment is also lower without citizenship or insurance than America's typical coinsurance on an insurance a typical middle class family would have.

There's this sense that insurance is somehow saving them a ton of money on the bill, but it's honestly all an illusion. Healthcare is actually really fucking expensive even with a typical insurance in America. We're not a rich family and we would still rather go to Korea. They also have better educated doctors btw lol

And thats something I dont get. In all my time working in healthcare, I havent met someone whos explicitly stated they are happy with their insurance plan. Its just not something you hear people say. You will certainly hear people that are upset, but otherwise most seem to be indifferent at best.

So why is the current system defended as much as it is from certain circles?

Ex-Kefiroth posted...

god what a rotten system we have

Surprised you all haven't exposed this to the public yet; this is supreme court worthy at the least.

@k_debonair

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legendarylemur posted...

Yeah people seem to not really understand the sheer magnitude of healthcare costs in America vs the slightly inconvenient wait times in any country with a good healthcare system. I guess Americans in general don't really know what goes on in countries not America. Otherwise, there would be some pretty serious protests instead of just taking it in the bum every time.

Most do actually if only because politicans Harp on it constantly in order to win support....but immediately get cold feet as soon as ANY sacrifice of any amount is even implied on the peoples part and as soon as said people realize this and the rich wont/cant front the bill they pop smoke.

And protest do happen in the regard, but usually disperse for the same reason.


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BroodRyu posted...

And thats something I dont get. In all my time working in healthcare, I havent met someone whos explicitly stated they are happy with their insurance plan. Its just not something you hear people say. You will certainly hear people that are upset, but otherwise most seem to be indifferent at best.

So why is the current system defended as much as it is from certain circles?

I have no clue lol... I think some people are always just ok with the status quo. Another is just not knowing there's a better alternative. I don't get why there's no real nationwide revolt whenever an innocent man/woman is handed a ludicrous bill

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BroodRyu posted...

And thats something I dont get. In all my time working in healthcare, I havent met someone whos explicitly stated they are happy with their insurance plan. Its just not something you hear people say. You will certainly hear people that are upset, but otherwise most seem to be indifferent at best.

So why is the current system defended as much as it is from certain circles?

The average American person has been fed propaganda that in places like the UK and Canada, people routinely die while waiting for basic healthcare and pay such a large portion of their income towards taxes that they are left destitute. They're convinced that if we used those systems, they would die.

Never mind the fact that that's nonsense, or that you can find living, breathing people who will verify that other countries have functioning healthcare systems, or that ours is the only one that has anything approaching death panels.

So, these people defend to the death a system that doesn't give a single fuck about them because they're scared. It's irrational and trying to communicate with a lot of them using facts, studies, and testimonials is like talking to a wall.

Everyone here saying that other countries do it seem to have no idea just how hard they fought and fought and fought to make that happen. Not the people. The actual government working through multiple administrations to make it happen and avoid collapse. In no way do I trust our government to put that kind of effort in. We're straight up fucked on this one.

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apparently if you call your insurance or the hospital or something and get them to break down the cost for you, and you ask how certain items are justified for the price they're set at, you can get them taken off the bill. If they can't justify the cost, they'll strike it from the bill.

Unfortunately, healthcare pricing in the US is a racket between insurance companies and hospitals. The insurance gets rid of some of the stupid frivolous dogshit, and then they pat themselves on the back for saving you money. If you want to go above and beyond for yourself, you have to put in the hard yards yourself and chase every last penny. A lot of people with chronic illnesses or severe fatigue, or who are of an advanced age, don't have the stamina to do that - so they get fucked in the ass with bills like this.

And of course, even if you have the time and energy to whittle this bill down to what it should be - 181 pages is a major deterrent. It's an absolute chore, and it's designed to be insurmountable.

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