Current Events > So statues of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, etc are being targeted now?

(+) Yeah! (+)

P4wn4g3 posted...

Idk a problem with trashing the founding fathers is that we may as well trash the constitution while we are at it, then boom we have no Union at all. Just a, well, confederacy of autonomous states.

There are a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum who would love to trash the constitution. That's why we have the constitution.

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The Irony is that Washington and Jefferson would probably be horrifed by the concept of having statues of themselves worshipped centuries later.

I agree that throwing them into lakes is a mistake, put them in musuems.

But I don't see the opposition towards putting different statues up on the public square. It's not destroying US Culture to not actively worship slavery.

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I hope eye-rolling isn't bad for ones health, otherwise this topic is gonna be the death of me.

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Well there's a false equivalency that having a statue out of respect to the founding fathers is in any way supportive of slavery.

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P4wn4g3 posted...

Well there's a false equivalency that having a statue out of respect to the founding fathers is in any way supportive of slavery.

If you say so

I mean they were slave owners.

Imagine if they erected a statue of Jared in a school playground and then went "It's about all the good he did making people lose weight, no way supportive of anything else."

Some things are too red to ignore.

Reminds me of a line from House M.D When a criminal on death row who is sick is whining that the doctor isn't giving him enough credit for raising his younger brother on the street

And he goes

"You killed 3 people. Making Mac'n'Cheese just the way he likes it doesn't change that."

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Oh, shit. They did it! Protestors managed to take down the Washington Monument!



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Guns_of_Verdun posted...

If you say so

I mean they were slave owners.

Imagine if they erected a statue of Jared in a school playground and then went "It's about all the good he did making people lose weight, no way supportive of anything else."

Some things are too red to ignore.

Reminds me of a line from House M.D When a criminal on death row who is sick is whining that the doctor isn't giving him enough credit for raising his younger brother on the street

And he goes

"You killed 3 people. Making Mac'n'Cheese just the way he likes it doesn't change that."

Not disputing that slavery was part of what the nation was founded on. Just that paying tribute to the people who founded the country you live in can simply be patriotic or respectful.

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Guns_of_Verdun posted...

I mean they were slave owners.

So was the Democratic Party. It was founded on preserving slavery rights.

You'll be hard pressed to see anyone say we need to disband that party, hilariously enough.

Nobody looks at the Democratic party with revulsion they do for the KKK even though they are historically linked.

Maybe they should.

Has anyone told the anti-statue people that keeping statues of the founders of the country who happened to own slaves is different than keeping statues of people whose cause was based on owning slaves yet?

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Zikten posted...

so anyway you are warned and i don't know if you will see this, but for everyone else

this nation was largely built on the backs on black people. the founding fathers mostly did jack fucking shit. america would not be the country it is without the slaves who lived and died under a whip for centuries

Ok, let's take this argument and look at it.

The US population in 1861 was about 31.5M, of that total around 3.9M were slaves (Southern states only). In other words, at it's peak, slaves accounted for 12.4% of the total population of the US.

You are telling me that the entire US, even the parts without slaves, was built by that 12.4%? The other 87.6% sat on their ass and did nothing?

No.

Slavery played a part in the founding of the US. Completely agree and we need to remember that. We also need to remember that over 360,000 Union soldiers died to end slavery with hundreds of thousands more injured. The Union Army was over 90% white.

This country was built by ALL Americans.

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RustyFerret posted...

So was the Democratic Party. It was founded on preserving slavery rights.

You'll be hard pressed to see anyone say we need to disband that party, hilariously enough.

Nobody looks at the Democratic party with revulsion they do for the KKK even though they are historically linked.

Maybe they should.

Erm

You know the Democratic and Republican party switched idealogies right?

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Guns_of_Verdun posted...

Erm

You know the Democratic and Republican party switched idealogies right?

Prove it.

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Guns_of_Verdun posted...

Erm

You know the Democratic and Republican party switched idealogies right?

Doesn't matter.

Democrats were founded on slavery rights and created the KKK. That is their history. They own it. They are culpable.

Numenor posted...

Ok, let's take this argument and look at it.

The US population in 1861 was about 31.5M, of that total around 3.9M were slaves (Southern states only). In other words, at it's peak, slaves accounted for 12.4% of the total population of the US.

You are telling me that the entire US, even the parts without slaves, was built by that 12.4%? The other 87.6% sat on their ass and did nothing?

No.

Slavery played a part in the founding of the US. Completely agree and we need to remember that. We also need to remember that over 360,000 Union soldiers died to end slavery with hundreds of thousands more injured. The Union Army was over 90% white.

This country was built by ALL Americans.

And yet not all of those lives seen to matter to you people. They built this country using the blood of blacks and native Americans, who never had a single word on where their place was in this country.

Take this all lives matter bullshit somewhere else

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RustyFerret posted...

They are culpable.

who's they

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If democrats founded slavery, why are modern day republicans upset about statues being pulled down?
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LightningAce11 posted...

If democrats founded slavery, why are modern day republicans upset about statues being pulled down?

important history lesson time since nazis are now making up so many lies that normal people such as yourself might be inclined to believe that there's a grain of truth there--when it's actually just all lies

in the 1860 election, the national democratic party refused to adopt a resolution supporting the extension of slavery into territories.

the fire-eaters--the white supremacist morons who represented the south and were fringe lunatics even by 1860 standards--broke away from the national democratic party in response and ran their own candidate in the election--splitting their party's vote in half and ensuring lincoln's victory.

the national democratic party had their moment to decide where they stood in history. they chose, quite clearly, not to side with slavery.

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Numenor posted...

Prove it.

Which party's followers tend to fly the battle flag of the Confederacy? Which party's followers tend to be opposed to it?

RustyFerret posted...

Doesn't matter.

Democrats were founded on slavery rights and created the KKK. That is their history. They own it. They are culpable.

Cool, so you should have no problem with them wanting to take down monuments that glorify dark parts of their history. The Germans outlawed Nazism and all of its imagery out of shame. Republicans are the ones wanting to defend and preserve monuments to our atrocities.

You can learn history in a book. You don't need a damn statue.

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AmericaTheBrave posted...

You can't change the past. Remember their ideals. They weren't perfect and were products of their time. But their ideas for what America could be were good.

Considering the fact that there were active abolitionists fighting against slavery makes it a moot point.

Furthering the fact that a Founding Father, John Adams, never owned slaves, hated slavery, and represented slaves in legal battles.

Also Thomas Jefferson raped his slaves. So yeah....

'Products of their time' is for something like.....people not knowing what pronouns to use or understanding technology or thinking that home remedies could cure diseases.

Owning people and raping them is not a 'Oh well that's just how things were'.

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This topic is a complete shitshow. Well done TC

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Kastrada posted...

Owning people and raping them is not a 'Oh well that's just how things were'.

No it's a you just pulled that out of your ass.

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TomNook20 posted...

No it's a you just pulled that out of your ass.

Pulled what exactly?

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I kept saying it was coming and here it is.

Mark my words, Lincoln will be targeted next for some ass backwards reasoning and the local seals will clap until their flippers are sore.

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Blue_Dream87 posted...

And yet not all of those lives seen to matter to you people. They built this country using the blood of blacks and native Americans, who never had a single word on where their place was in this country.

Take this all lives matter bullshit somewhere else

The only bullshit are the statements you've made. You know nothing of my positions, yet make blanket assumptions. The fact that you can only see the issues through your single viewpoint shows a distinct narrow-mindedness and lack of critical thinking skills. Perhaps if you weren't so indoctrinated to the leftist group-think that pervades modern culture you might be able to handle an actual debate.

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Numenor posted...

The only bullshit are the statements you've made. You know nothing of my positions, yet make blanket assumptions. The fact that you can only see the issues through your single viewpoint shows a distinct narrow-mindedness and lack of critical thinking skills. Perhaps if you weren't so indoctrinated to the leftist group-think that pervades modern culture you might be able to handle an actual debate.

Lol debate me bro. You on Zoom?

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The23rdMagus posted...

Cool, so you should have no problem with them wanting to take down monuments that glorify dark parts of their history. The Germans outlawed Nazism and all of its imagery out of shame. Republicans are the ones wanting to defend and preserve monuments to our atrocities.

I don't care if Democrats want to scrub their past. I do care about people destroying ww2 monuments and statues of our founders like Jefferson.

Also Germany has no free speech or freedom of expression,which is problematic when you actually want to criticize or make fun of bad ideologies.

Billy__Beane posted...

Some of our founding fathers were slave owners and their ideas and hard work are what formed the foundation of this very country. If you don't like them, then you can leave the country because without them there is no country.

Their ideas and hard work were that only white cis males would have rights, if you want anybody else to have rights then you can leave the country.

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Numenor posted...

The only bullshit are the statements you've made. You know nothing of my positions, yet make blanket assumptions. The fact that you can only see the issues through your single viewpoint shows a distinct narrow-mindedness and lack of critical thinking skills. Perhaps if you weren't so indoctrinated to the leftist group-think that pervades modern culture you might be able to handle an actual debate.

This is cringe as fuck lol

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I think the statues of the founding fathers should either be removed or expanded with the depiction of their slaves to cause discomfort to viewers.

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the day mobs show up to take down those statues is the day the morgues get backed up.

Are they going to go after Mt. Rushmore too?