Current Events > I have also completed Last of Us 2. **END GAME SPOILERS**

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think they expertly made me sympathize with Abby in the end.

In a lot of ways, Abby is a lot like Joel in the first game, especially once Lev is introduced to the game. Hell, they mirror mechanics from TLOU 1 that Joel and Ellie did together.

Ellie ends up reflecting the worst in both Abby and Joel. She brings it together in the end by not killing Abby.

It also helps this is the best voice actor and capture performance I've ever seen in a video game.

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Yeah, I disliked Abby right up until the final moments. Then seeing how she reacted after everything made me change my mind. Watching my cousin play through now, and my dislike for her is almost gone.

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ok

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I never thought I'd feel sympathy for her, but I did when I saw her all malnourished, bruised, and haggard at the end. Especially when it seems she forgave Ellie and didn't want to fight her. (and, in my experience, had a tough time winning...it was an incredibly easy fight)
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I think they should have started the game with abby and her dad then transition to Joel telling the story to Tommy, just to solidify her place in the story quickly.

I liked Abby near the end, but feel like they took too long to make us sympathize with her.
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Just beat TLOU2 tonight as well. Overall I thought it was a mediocre game in most aspects but I liked Abbys character, as TC said her performance was great and I thought the final scene with her was pretty moving, brought it all together

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I was ready for Abby thanks to the leaks and I had a pretty good idea they'd do that sort of thing so I was ready. Once she got caught by the Scars I was down with her.

My only real niggle with it is the big theater cliffhanger. I think the Abby playthrough should have been after the theater or even after the farm. Ideally I'd treat Ellie and Abby as separate campaigns that can be played however you like with the epilogue unlocked when both are done.

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I dont think they did a good job with Abby.

by the end I only wanted Ellie not to kill her for the sake of Ellie

Abby was a much more awful person than pretty much anyone else in the game, in my opinion. she deserved to die... I just didnt want It to happen the way they set it up

game would have been much better without the Santa Barbara stuff


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Dunno how you can claim Abby is the worst person in the game when some of the Wolves are arguably worse

And of course the scars

And the literal slavers at the end

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TheGoldenEel posted...

I dont think they did a good job with Abby.

by the end I only wanted Ellie not to kill her for the sake of Ellie

Abby was a much more awful person than pretty much anyone else in the game, in my opinion. she deserved to die... I just didnt want It to happen the way they set it up

game would have been much better without the Santa Barbara stuff

I dunno was she? Her Dad was about to make the biggest progress on the cure. Her Dad was a nice guy and she had a pretty great life at the Fireflies. Joel took that away from her. She had to then go work for the shitty WLF faction and be stuck in a war for several years. She basically just had that, her desire for revenge and a failing relationship with Owen. Then she finally got what she wanted and it changed nothing for her. Just like Joel and Ellie she finally finds something worse living and fighting for with Lev.

I think Santa Barbara was needed because both Abby and Ellie needed to learn to let go of their hate because it was just ruining their lives. Abby had that in the theater when she let Ellie go despite her killing the guy she loved and several of her friends. Ellie didn't have that closure.She didn't learn to let it go. She was forced to and that wasn't enough for her.

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maybe it's because I was spoiled about: Abby killing Joel, her killing him was because he killed her father and took away any hope for a cure, and that you played half of the game as her, but I never disliked/hated her character.

I just wanted to see how the story justified everything, and I felt like it was all executed really well.

I didn't expect that I'd end up rooting for Abby, though, not in the sense that I wanted her to kill Ellie, or anything, but for her to live at the end and have some kinda happy-ish resolution.

so I was feeling super tense during Abby and Ellie's theater confrontation and at the ending.

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Doom_Art posted...

Dunno how you can claim Abby is the worst person in the game when some of the Wolves are arguably worse

And of course the scars

And the literal slavers at the end

Ellie is far worse than Abby.

Abby - kills a MASS MURDERER. Remember, he didn't just kill her father, but also basically destroyed the Fireflies as a whole. Most likely he killed the parents of all her friends.

Yes, she took it too far. She tortured the man for her own hopes of releasing herself from the PTSD (thus all the dreams she was having) and it took her the rest of the story to understand what would truly release her from her hatred spiral.

She tortures and murders essentially the Boogey-Man.

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just to add, in TLOU part one its hinted that Joel was a highway robber, and Tommy literally tortured people for political reasons

Its been set in stone since the first game that Joel is literally not the good guy in the first game

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yea, and Ellie also tortures Nora to death

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The only thing Abby did wrong was.... murder the guy who killed her father, and even spared both Tommy and Ellie afterwards?

like huh

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I find it shocking there are people who play some mental gymnastics to make Joel seem like an angel.

Yes, he grew. We see actually the character arc Abby goes through is similar to what Joel went through. That being said, he literally mass murders and stops a potential cure due to his own selfishness. He also says he would do it again.

That is one of the best things about this world building. The selfish and those willing to do the dirty work live. There is no real benefit to doing the good thing, which makes it so much more laudable when people do the good thing.

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I dunno if I'd say Ellie is worse. We only really saw the end of Abby's revenge story followed by the beginning of her redemption. Abby was ruthless towards Scars and was one of the top killers for the Wolves. Ellie goes through the trauma of losing Joel, spends three days in Seattle being a monster and is traumatized for years over it.

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

Yes, he grew. We see actually the character arc Abby goes through is similar to what Joel went through. That being said, he literally mass murders and stops a potential cure due to his own selfishness. He also says he would do it again.

And yet Abby's Dad couldn't answer if he'd kill Abby for the cure either. Saving Ellie humanized Joel into being a better person in the long term. They're just all characters stuck in a shitty situation who handle it in poor ways really.

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That's a good point.

Both the kids (Ellie and Abby) basically said it would be an honor to die for the cure. It was their fathers that struggled with that or plain flat out rejected the idea (for Joel).

Both Ellie and Abby basically become vengeful hate filled monsters to enact their revenge on the person who murdered their father. It shows that as much as they have some cavalier ideas about themselves and the worth of their own lives, when it comes to their family, they would basically have done the exact same thing as Joel did.

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Can someone clarify this for me - clearly Ellie doesn't actually know that she was going to get sacrificed for the possibility of a cure right? No one actually stopped to ask her. She does say herself (I think) that she would have wanted to do it, but I just find it weird that no one asked. Was it Marlene(?) in the first game? I supposed you could put it down to being kind of cowardly in a way? Obviously they can't tell her or the whole Joel's lie thing doesn't make sense, but I just find that part interesting/a little odd.

Stalolin posted...

Can someone clarify this for me - clearly Ellie doesn't actually know that she was going to get sacrificed for the possibility of a cure right? No one actually stopped to ask her. She does say herself (I think) that she would have wanted to do it, but I just find it weird that no one asked. Was it Marlene(?) in the first game? I supposed you could put it down to being kind of cowardly in a way? Obviously they can't tell her or the whole Joel's lie thing doesn't make sense, but I just find that part interesting/a little odd.

Iirc, she doesnt know that itd kill her, but I dont think the doctor even knew shed die until she was already almost there. Like they were prepping when the doctor was like She has to die for this to work. From what I took from it, they didnt say anything because they were afraid theyd change their mind and, well, whats one life to millions

i could be remembering this entirely wrong honestly, I still need to do my second play through of the games

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Stalolin posted...

Can someone clarify this for me - clearly Ellie doesn't actually know that she was going to get sacrificed for the possibility of a cure right? No one actually stopped to ask her. She does say herself (I think) that she would have wanted to do it, but I just find it weird that no one asked. Was it Marlene(?) in the first game? I supposed you could put it down to being kind of cowardly in a way? Obviously they can't tell her or the whole Joel's lie thing doesn't make sense, but I just find that part interesting/a little odd.

The Fireflies probably didn't see much of a point since from their perspective since she didn't have a choice either way. Just get it over with while she's already unconscious. Easier than dealing with a scared girl if it came to that. Ellie didn't know until Joel told her though no. I'm sure she was suspicious about it as soon as she woke up however.

Marlene did want to handle it better I think. That's the impression I had in TLOU2 when she even wanted Joel brought into the conversation.

And yeah Ellie would have given her life up. I thought that back in the first game. She has survivors guilt and wanted her life to have meaning. I still think a lot of her development in this game is still reconciling with that.

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I don't know, I couldn't really get into Abby as a character. It's still a great experience though.

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