Board 8 > NBA playoffs overtime

(+) Yeah! (+)

lebron might've won more early with a better org, but if he hadn't team-hopped then his team's talent likely would have dried up, just like with the spurs
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I mean, it took 20 years to dry up (and the Kawhi fiasco was a big mitigating factor because they'd still be good if they don't run him off)! I'm sure Lebron would've lived with that.

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we didnt run him off he was always gonna leave

also fuck zaza

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I mean maybe, but it certainly didn't help!

But yeah Zaza is the worst

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MZero posted...

He promised that many when he did go to Miami and came up very short! And he wouldn't have Wade or Bosh in that hypothetical scenario

No, he just had a GM capable of putting together three different finals teams across three different decades. I trust Pat Riley's ability to build teams and Erik Spoelstra's ability to coach.

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Leonhart4 posted...

I mean, he won a weak Eastern Conference the year before Boston assembled its Big Three and the Pistons were on the way out.

Also kind of hard to say the Pistons were on their way out when the very next season they posted the second best record in the NBA.

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StealThisSheen posted...

Are we equating the Cavs to the Bulls

Oh no the Cavs are worse

But not by much!

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Ehhh

The Bulls a season after Jordan still made the playoffs
The Cavs a season after LeBron only won 19 games

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also lakers ended the season 57-0 when leading at the end of the 3rd quarter

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StealThisSheen posted...

Ehhh

The Bulls a season after Jordan still made the playoffs
The Cavs a season after LeBron only won 19 games

Also, the Bulls at least did some stuff post-Jordan. From 2004 to 2017 the made the playoffs all but 2 seasons.

The Cavs, in their entire existence, have only 2 ECF appearances that don't involve LeBron and no Finals appearances. You have to go back to 1997 to find a season where the Cavs had a winning record without LeBron. And in the 6 years where LeBron was still in the league but not on the Cavs, they won 25 or less games 5 times, including winning only 19 games 3 times.

Chicago is a bad organization.
Cleveland should just straight up be eliminated.


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StealThisSheen posted...

Ehhh

The Bulls a season after Jordan still made the playoffs
The Cavs a season after LeBron only won 19 games

Yes, Pippen was good, and despite the front office's best efforts, he managed to stay on the team. They were hot garbage in 1999 when they finally managed to get rid of him, and they've been bad ever since, except when the lucked into Rose in 2008. But they get as much credit for drafting Rose as Cleveland does for drafting Lebron

To be clear I'm not trying to say the talent was comparable because it wasn't. But the Bulls front office was and is very bad

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TheRock1525 posted...

Also, the Bulls at least did some stuff post-Jordan. From 2004 to 2017 the made the playoffs all but 2 seasons.

The Cavs, in their entire existence, have only 2 ECF appearances that don't involve LeBron and no Finals appearances. You have to go back to 1997 to find a season where the Cavs had a winning record without LeBron. And in the 6 years where LeBron was still in the league but not on the Cavs, they won 25 or less games 5 times, including winning only 19 games 3 times.

Chicago is a bad organization.
Cleveland should just straight up be eliminated.

That isn't really fair. It took the Bulls 6 years to get back after Jordan retired, and we haven't seen the Cavs six years after Lebron yet cause he came back after 4 years last time, and they were already up to 33 wins which was better than the Bulls managed 4 years after the last dance.

The Bulls have a whopping 3 ECF appearances without MJ and no finals appearances. Again, Cleveland is worse but not by a wide margin

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MZero posted...

Oh no the Cavs are worse

But not by much!

Oh, the Cavs are much worse.

Drafting Anthony Bennett as the first pick when literally no one thought he was the best player in the draft alone makes them much worse.

The Bulls have been a poorly run organization pre and post Jordan, but they haven't done anything that bad.

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Leonhart4 posted...

Oh, the Cavs are much worse.

Drafting Anthony Bennett as the first pick when literally no one thought he was the best player in the draft alone makes them much worse.

The Bulls have been a poorly run organization pre and post Jordan, but they haven't done anything that bad.

Bennet was still projected to be a lottery pick though, even top 5 in most mocks. It's not like they took a projected second rounder or something

and hey, they ended up trading him for Kevin Love so it all worked out!

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Virtually no one had him going #1 though, and it's extremely rare in the NBA to have the #1 pick be a surprise!

Also keep in mind that there's more to being a poorly run organization than team record. The record is often a reflection of it, but not always. The Cavs were still making bad decisions even when Lebron was there! There's a reason why Lebron left both times. The Knicks had a few years of success when Melo was still in his prime, but that doesn't mean they aren't the worst run organization in any sport because they are.

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LeonhartFour posted...

Virtually no one had him going #1 though, and it's extremely rare in the NBA to have the #1 pick be a surprise!

Also keep in mind that there's more to being a poorly run organization than team record. The record is often a reflection of it, but not always. The Cavs were still making bad decisions even when Lebron was there! There's a reason why Lebron left both times. The Knicks had a few years of success when Melo was still in his prime, but that doesn't mean they aren't the worst run organization in any sport because they are.

I agree! But I don't think it was that absurd of a pick considering the 2013 draft was a mess

I agree again! Hence why the Bulls were trash even when Jordan was there despite all the winning, and why I don't give them much credit for the Rose years because picking him was a no-brainer. To be honest this discussion is kind of pointless though because we're really just arguing over the word "much" worse. At least we can agree on LOL Knicks though

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ya go my Darko

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I think LeBron can repeat next year, but that's it. Father time is undefeated.

Year 18 is where Kobe started to deal with injuries, also.

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lebron sleeps though
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I think Lebron could be a scary PG type for years, he would just need to have more around him.

But Lebron's vision is absurd.

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That's true.

How many years we gotta wait before we can see LeBron vs. Bronny in the league?

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ExThaNemesis posted...

That's true.

How many years we gotta wait before we can see LeBron vs. Bronny in the league?

I believe he worked out his contract in LA so that it ended coinciding with Bronny if they hypothetically dropped the need for one and done in college and were able to go straight to the league from high school so he could base his next move on that.

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Bronny is a sophomore in high school according to the post game interview I saw, so 3-4 years depending on the one and done rule

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Imagine if the Cavs get the top pick and then draft Bronny

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Leonhart4 posted...

Imagine if the Cavs get the top pick and then draft Bronny

He's not very good.

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yeah but you draft him to get Lebron to sign with you so he can play with his son

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Lebron is gonna be pretty old by then. Not sure the 1st pick in the draft is worth it... Especially cuz I think that's the Emoni Bates draft class, who is supposed to be the next Kevin Durant.

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Pelicans are meeting with Stan Van Gundy

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and the Rockets with Jeff Van Gundy

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The Knicks meeting with Gumby

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Bronny not going one overall or anywhere close

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