Current Events > Is there any time it's okay that the cops shoot people?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Because I get the feeling that BLM is going to be against anytime the cops shoot a person of color no matter what.

If my feeling is right, how far can they take this before people say anything?

Furthermore, is there ever an appropriate reason for the cops to shoot someone?

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Of course there is. When the cop has a legitimate fear that his life is in danger (ie armed person), he has a right to defend himself or stop a threat.

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StucklnMyPants posted...

Of course there is. When the cop has a legitimate fear that his life is in danger (ie armed person), he has a right to defend himself or stop a threat.

What about the guy who was wielding a knife all crazy?

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Only the exact same scenarios in which it's okay for a civilian to shoot another civilian.

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piUrsEitanizm posted...

What about the guy who was wielding a knife all crazy?

https://twitter.com/coldsummerss/status/1266230689491492864
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Well obviously there's plenty. Armed criminals are a thing.
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If a person is pointing a firearm at an officer, if a person is firing at an officer, if a person is approaching an officer with an obvious weapon like a knife, bat, crowbar and is not standing down, and come within 10 feet of that officer.

These are the scenarios I find is acceptable. The last scenario I mentioned, one shot to disable that person, not unload 20 fucking rounds into him. If you hit someone once, they are going to stop in their tracks. If not, fire one more.

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StucklnMyPants posted...

Of course there is. When the cop has a legitimate fear that his life is in danger (ie armed person), he has a right to defend himself or stop a threat.

Do people over there get shot by cops often enough for this to be a serious question?
Anyone brandishing a gun in front of a cop should expect to be shot themselves. Likewise anyone threatening/carrying out assault to innocent members of the public should also expect it.
Do cops just go straight for the kill in every situation? is shooting people (without a weapon) in the legs too hard?

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Only when they are about to be shot at.

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Outer_space posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSa2EomQAbA

Kinda hard to tell when the cops should've shot this guy.

Yeah that does indeed suck but the Sergeant was unnecessarily threatening throughout that encounter. (Hindsight drive enabled) If you start shouting at someone, there's a good chance they're going to start shouting back and then the tension rises and so does the adrenaline. Rational thought then gets pushed into the background. The douchebag got tazed a little bit and got sprayed a little bit. Either disable the man or don't; all they did was piss him off.
I'm not for one second suggesting they should've seen it coming but in a country which seemingly has enough guns for one per person, i don't think giving someone with (between 7 and 10 depending on site) priors a reason to want to get back at you is particularly clever.

Also, WHY can't they tow the car with him still in it? He's gotta get out to go to the bathroom at some point. That's no more or less invasive than trying to manhandle him out. But yeah, sucks for the cop's family, he didn't deserve to be shot.


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MabusIncarnate posted...

If a person is pointing a firearm at an officer, if a person is firing at an officer, if a person is approaching an officer with an obvious weapon like a knife, bat, crowbar and is not standing down, and come within 10 feet of that officer.

These are the scenarios I find is acceptable. The last scenario I mentioned, one shot to disable that person, not unload 20 fucking rounds into him. If you hit someone once, they are going to stop in their tracks. If not, fire one more.

Nah, ten feet is a ridiculous standard.

You think you have time to shoot, reassess and shoot again if necessary inside of ten feet? At that range its at least even odds.

Outer_space posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSa2EomQAbA

Kinda hard to tell when the cops should've shot this guy.

Holy shit that privilege.

*Gets back in car after low effort officer grab* "I don't want to go to jail"

If a black dude even gets close to his car again, it's assumed he's going for a gun

The thing is. This still looks bad. But when you put it next to how most black people are treated, this looks like they're having a tea party with the guy.

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BarbaricAvatar posted...

Yeah that does indeed suck but the Sergeant was unnecessarily threatening throughout that encounter. (Hindsight drive enabled)

I disagree. I think they were beyond reasonable. I would have just held down the pepper spray from the passenger side until he got out on his own. They were being far too nice to him.

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10ft no way

21 ft rule is good
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

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MabusIncarnate posted...

If a person is pointing a firearm at an officer, if a person is firing at an officer, if a person is approaching an officer with an obvious weapon like a knife, bat, crowbar and is not standing down, and come within 10 feet of that officer.

These are the scenarios I find is acceptable. The last scenario I mentioned, one shot to disable that person, not unload 20 fucking rounds into him. If you hit someone once, they are going to stop in their tracks. If not, fire one more.

I'm sure you, a guy from GameFAQs who probably got most of his ideas on guns from movies, knows how to stop a threat better than a trained and experienced police officer. A bad guy can be so full of adrenaline, or hopped up on drugs, that he doesn't even realize he's been shot until later.

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Orlando_Jordan posted...

I'm sure you, a guy from GameFAQs who probably got most of his ideas on guns from movies, knows how to stop a threat better than a trained and experienced police officer. A bad guy can be so full of adrenaline, or hopped up on drugs, that he doesn't even realize he's been shot until later.

You just accused someone of getting their experience from movies, then said one of the most movie like shits I ever heard. I been hoping for so long that you're a satire account.

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Lost_All_Senses posted...

You just accused someone of getting their experience from movies, then said one of the most movie like shits I ever heard. I been hoping for so long that you're a satire account.

I'm sure one shot is not only going to stop a bad guy right in his tracks, but also cause him to go flying.

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Orlando_Jordan posted...

I'm sure one shot is not only going to stop a bad guy right in his tracks, but also cause him to go flying.

Yup. There's nothing in-between those 2 examples. Good job. Gold star. Will call parents and tell them you're showing promise.

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Orlando_Jordan posted...

I'm sure you, a guy from GameFAQs who probably got most of his ideas on guns from movies, knows how to stop a threat better than a trained and experienced police officer. A bad guy can be so full of adrenaline, or hopped up on drugs, that he doesn't even realize he's been shot until later.

I spent 4 years in the military, 3 years of that were active service, 10 months in Kuwait. I'm pretty familiar with firearms and had training in combat and tactics. The big difference is, in the military, the "rule" is do not fire until fired upon. That does not apply to law enforcement. I'm not going to try to pretend like it's similar, because law enforcement handle all kinds of people, including your point that you made, people drugged up to the point where they can't be contained. I'd think that would be an exception for sure that I didn't really consider when posting.

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MabusIncarnate posted...

The big difference is, in the military, the "rule" is do not fire until fired upon.

That isn't even remotely a rule.

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Bluebomber182 posted...

https://twitter.com/coldsummerss/status/1266230689491492864

Some disingenuous shit

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Outer_space posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSa2EomQAbA

Kinda hard to tell when the cops should've shot this guy.

That sucks...what happened to the cops? And whats WITH that guy? Autistic? hiding drugs? I believe the cops were beyond reasonable (if they indeed had a reason to tow the car and remove him).

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MabusIncarnate posted...

I spent 4 years in the military, 3 years of that were active service, 10 months in Kuwait. I'm pretty familiar with firearms and had training in combat and tactics. The big difference is, in the military, the "rule" is do not fire until fired upon. That does not apply to law enforcement. I'm not going to try to pretend like it's similar, because law enforcement handle all kinds of people, including your point that you made, people drugged up to the point where they can't be contained. I'd think that would be an exception for sure that I didn't really consider when posting.

Thank you for your service.

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JuanCarlos1 posted...

That sucks...what happened to the cops? And whats WITH that guy? Autistic? hiding drugs? I believe the cops were beyond reasonable (if they indeed had a reason to tow the car and remove him).

The sargent died, the other officer lived. I'm guessing the real reason he didn't want to get out of the car was because of the gun under the seat.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

That isn't even remotely a rule.

Rules of Engagement
(As Authorized by JCS [EUCOM Dir 55-47])
1. All military operations will be conducted in accordance with the laws of war.
2. The use of armed force will be utilized as a measure of last resort only.
3. Nothing in these rules negates or otherwise overrides a commander's obligation to take all necessary and appropriate actions for his unit's self-defense.
4. US forces will not fire unless fired upon unless there is clear evidence of hostile intent.

This was what I was referencing, although it can change in extreme scenarios which I was never a part of


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Orlando_Jordan posted...

Thank you for your service.

One thing people don't really think of when thinking of people in the military is this; if they didn't volunteer and join, people like my fat ass would be drafted

So thank them indeed.

(This wasn't really directed at anyone nor is it even really on topic)

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If the crinimal is both resisiting arrest and intent on doing harm with a deadly weapon then yes. Unfortunately some criminals arent going down without a fight and when push comes to shove under such circumstances they have to be put down.

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I joined because I was fat and my dad, uncle, granddad, etc all served.

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MabusIncarnate posted...

This was what I was referencing, although it can change in extreme scenarios which I was never a part of

Yeah that's a bit different from having to wait until fired on first. Being fired at is just the most obvious way of declaring hostile intent.

Anyway military conflicts also aren't like police conflicts. There's a lot more opportunities for military to secure a win without firing.

I imagine if the military was sent to get this guy out of the car he would be smoked out and tackled by a guy waiting to ambush him. Cops didn't have any of those tools available to them.

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Orlando_Jordan posted...

I'm sure you, a guy from GameFAQs who probably got most of his ideas on guns from movies, knows how to stop a threat better than a trained and experienced police officer. A bad guy can be so full of adrenaline, or hopped up on drugs, that he doesn't even realize he's been shot until later.

Dude you are on GameFAQS too!


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Tyranthraxus posted...

Yeah that's a bit different from having to wait until fired on first. Being fired at is just the most obvious way of declaring hostile intent.

Anyway military conflicts also aren't like police conflicts. There's a lot more opportunities for military to secure a win without firing.

I imagine if the military was sent to get this guy out of the car he would be smoked out and tackled by a guy waiting to ambush him. Cops didn't have any of those tools available to them.

That is the point it shouldnt take a military attack strategy to stop a crackhead with a knife. Or to get a guy out of a car. Or an unarmed man.

I think we need to pay cops more but also let them know that their mistakes will be investigated and they can find themselves behind bars with people they locked up. I a gamefaqs nerd have taken a knife from a drunk person I am positive a dude with a gun, mace, nightstick, taser and back up can bring an unnarmed man to jail alive.


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I agree with you but I was kind of arguing the reverse. Comparing cops to the military is basically going to always be an automatic fail as the military will always have better equipment, better training, better tactics, more people, etc. Saying "why can't cops do X if the military does it" is what causes shit like Waco.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

I disagree. I think they were beyond reasonable. I would have just held down the pepper spray from the passenger side until he got out on his own. They were being far too nice to him.

Exactly. They were just threats, not much in the way of action to achieve a result. Shouting "I'm going to taze you" doesn't achieve anything; tazing the fuck out of the guy would move the events closer to a desired resolution. Or pepper-spraying him until he was puking.
It's sad, but i think the observation that if the guy wasn't white they'd have been more decisive, is true.


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Tyranthraxus posted...

better equipment, better training, better tactics,

. Aside from special forces. The military is running around with ripped up uniforms, old guns, and the same
basic tactics everyone uses. You think a bunch of 19 year olds know anything lmao. I deployed with a 30 year old m16 that barely worked

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Ok Waco Jr.

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That doesnt even make sense. Sorry you have no idea what you are talking about

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