Board 8 > Elliot Page

(+) Yeah! (+)

Paratroopa1 posted...

what sort of fresh heterosexual nonsense is this

There are multiple times in my life where I have gone from "oh my god your husband is emotionally abusive" to "oh you're just in a standard lesbian relationship"

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bruh

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Corrik7 posted...

If someone's name is Michael and they request that you call them Mike, you do so out of politeness.

That's true, but it's kinda the opposite of how names work. People give you names, you don't make your own. I actually think this is the root of whats initially distasteful about trans people to a lot of people, it's like making your own nick name in both A. Super weird thing to do B. Super weird that you think names matter to the degree you've gone with this.

In reality both trans people and people who make their own nicknames are perfectly fine, obviously. But I think this is one of those non-transphobic bothers to many people that makes them feel more transphobic than they actually are

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bruh

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SantaRPidgey posted...

There are multiple times in my life where I have gone from "oh my god your husband is emotionally abusive" to "oh you're just in a standard lesbian relationship"

can you elaborate on this because right now it seems crazy
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SantaRPidgey posted...

That's true, but it's kinda the opposite of how names work. People give you names, you don't make your own

This is just straight-up not true.

As a person who goes by a nickname version of my middle name, I actively choose to go by it even when in completely new company who might be introduced to me by my first name (jobs, doctors, events, etc)

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theyre not asking you to call them "my lord" or "god emperor of all mankind, the savior of us all, guardian of civilization, his eminence, the right, just and holy napoleon bonaparte iv". theyre asking you to call them "jeanine" or "tyler"

people give you *titles*, you don't make your own

what is the problem with calling somebody a different name they were born with? would you object to my friend going by "david" because he doesn't like his given name "rudolph"

what is wrong with you, thinking this is a reasonable thing to object to

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SantaRPidgey posted...

People give you names, you don't make your own.

MWC legitimately wanted everyone IRL to call him "cloud strife"

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LordoftheMorons posted...

An example where singular they actually creates ambiguity:

"After Alice met Julia, they caught fish."

Though for this I had to go out of my way to find a verb (caught) that's the same as a singular or plural verb.

Lurking through this thread two days later and had to bring this comment back out of the sheer hilarity of it.

Working so hard to prove that the singular they is confusing and then doing so by using an example that would still be somewhat unclear if she were the pronoun of choice.

the use of any pronouns, common or uncommon, can create confusion and uncertainty and if youre so concerned about that then dont use pronouns at all. its far more precise to refer to an individual by their name at all times, so just do that if youre so bothered by the singular they or any other pronouns. Case closed.


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SantaRPidgey posted...

In reality both trans people and people who make their own nicknames are perfectly fine, obviously. But I think this is one of those non-transphobic bothers to many people that makes them feel more transphobic than they actually are

I mean, having trouble adjusting to someone's new name is not inherently transphobic. Those of who've been online for 10+ years know this. Someone will change accounts, use a new username, and we will still call them by their old name. Even if we try to change, it's so ingrained that it's hard.

It only gets weird when the person literally says "Please don't call me the old one anymore" and you purposefully hold back from changing.

Mr Lasastryke posted...

MWC legitimately wanted everyone IRL to call him "cloud strife"

bad example because everyone IRL would be right to tell him to fuck off
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SantaRPidgey posted...

People give you names, you don't make your own

I'm not sure that's inherently true, SantaRPidgey. Trans stuff and internet handles aside, I have a ton of students that would rather be called by a different name than what's on the roster. Presumably they made that choice themselves to some extent.

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

bad example because everyone IRL would be right to tell him to fuck off

true (and i wasn't making a completely serious point).

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What is the feeling for people who don't use a pronoun at all? I've heard this before in relevant conversations IRL, such as:

P1: "Have you seen Lilith?"
P2: "Went to the bar. Said would catch up with us later."

I've know people who drop pronouns in general just as a casual way to talk a bit faster, but I've definitely heard this from people who don't normally talk that way. My guess is it's not a way to be disrespectful, but them struggling with their speech to adjust (it's been in the case of someone they knew prior to transition).

Just curious how people feel about that if they've also ever noticed it before too.

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TomNook posted...

What is the feeling for people who don't use a pronoun at all? I've heard this before in relevant conversations IRL, such as:

P1: "Have you seen Lilith?"
P2: "Went to the bar. Said would catch up with us later."

I've know people who drop pronouns in general just as a casual way to talk a bit faster, but I've definitely heard this from people who don't normally talk that way. My guess is it's not a way to be disrespectful, but them struggling with their speech to adjust (it's been in the case of someone they knew prior to transition).

Just curious how people feel about that if they've also ever noticed it before too.

Seems odd.

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So why does Gamefaqs "delicate flowers" going all "woahhh this topic turned to shit Gamefaqs never changeeee" when the only thing that happened was a discussion about singular they, which is more of a language issue than a trans discussion

Are you trying to feel offended on purpose?

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SantaRPidgey posted...

There are multiple times in my life where I have gone from "oh my god your husband is emotionally abusive" to "oh you're just in a standard lesbian relationship"

uh excuse me what

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Santa sure has been on an offensive roll lately lol

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Nanis23 posted...

So why does Gamefaqs "delicate flowers" going all "woahhh this topic turned to shit Gamefaqs never changeeee" when the only thing that happened was a discussion about singular they, which is more of a language issue than a trans discussion

Are you trying to feel offended on purpose?

did you read

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we already know ulti can't read

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UltimaterializerX posted...

its just a language barrier.

it's not. There is actual research about this. Studies have shown that singular they is "not problematic for the majority of readers."

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150502082946/http://gernsbacherlab.org/wp-content/uploads/papers/1/Foertsch_Gender-Neutrality-They-or-He_PS_1997.pdf

yes even back in 1997 this wasn't an issue. It's only an issue in formal/academic writing, in which case you should also be opposed to the use of the word "legit", which you clearly are not

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changmas posted...

Lurking through this thread two days later and had to bring this comment back out of the sheer hilarity of it.

Working so hard to prove that the singular they is confusing and then doing so by using an example that would still be somewhat unclear if she were the pronoun of choice.

the use of any pronouns, common or uncommon, can create confusion and uncertainty and if youre so concerned about that then dont use pronouns at all. its far more precise to refer to an individual by their name at all times, so just do that if youre so bothered by the singular they or any other pronouns. Case closed.

I was giving an example of a situation where it was ambiguous because people mentioned not being able to think of one. I don't think such situations are very common or a reason not to use a singular they, as should be clear in context from my other comments in the topic.

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

can you elaborate on this because right now it seems crazy

Lesbians traditionally have weird power dynamics in their relationships. I as a straight male have no judgement nor skin in this game, but it's an occurring phenomenon. The only example I can think of in popular culture to point to is she-ra and catra's relationship.

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And yeah obviously people picking their own names can be normal, but usually the names people pick stem from their legal name. If someone starts working for your company, and insists of everyone calling the "sea otter" there's a level of uncomfort and resentment there that's hard to pin down.

Again, I am aware of the fact that everyone here calls me Santa, and even that there are certain variations of my own name that I will correct people on if they refer to me improperly. I'm just saying that radical change that I think most people cringe at is probably at the root of a decent amount of transphobia. Maybe I'm not making any brave revelations or anything but this was something that I just recently realized was at the heart of my own transphobic lizard brain thoughts.

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SantaRPidgey posted...

Lesbians traditionally have weird power dynamics in their relationships. I as a straight male have no judgement nor skin in this game, but it's an occurring phenomenon. The only example I can think of in popular culture to point to is she-ra and catra's relationship.

Lesbians have weird power dynamics... and your example is a fictional couple

Yeah, somehow I'm getting the feeling that you don't actually have a lot of informed experience this one

By the way, if you think lesbians have weird power dynamics, let me introduce you to heterosexual couples sometime. Some of the shit they do is WILD!

NFUN posted...

did you read

Yes
After the previous topic when the entire board was against me, I don't want to have something like that again.
So I did my best to avoid this and talked about something that is not offensive in any way
But people were still offended

Maybe it's not because me, maybe it's because of Ulti or that 222222 dude, or Santa or one of the deleted posts, but I don't think they are offensive either

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SantaRPidgey posted...

And yeah obviously people picking their own names can be normal, but usually the names people pick stem from their legal name. If someone starts working for your company, and insists of everyone calling the "sea otter" there's a level of uncomfort and resentment there that's hard to pin down.

Again, I am aware of the fact that everyone here calls me Santa, and even that there are certain variations of my own name that I will correct people on if they refer to me improperly. I'm just saying that radical change that I think most people cringe at is probably at the root of a decent amount of transphobia. Maybe I'm not making any brave revelations or anything but this was something that I just recently realized was at the heart of my own transphobic lizard brain thoughts.

Why is it that people always jump to like crazy names, like which trans people do you know (if you know any at all) that are calling themselves weird shit? Most will just ask you to call them a different normal first name. It isn't that hard. Even if it is weird, it doesn't matter. When people tell you their name that's what you call them. They probably aren't showing you their birth certificate so why do you give a fuck?

Meanwhile, my mom did actually have a cisgender coworker change her name to something unusual, and it was never a problem

Also, here is how that would go.

"Hey, I'm Sea Otter, I started working here today."
"Sea Otter?"
"Yeah."
"Like... the animal?"
"Yeah."
"...OK"

And then probably most people would attempt to call them Sea to shorten it because that's how nicknames work.

Unlike in the real world where babies are born with names like X A-12.

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Paratroopa1 posted...

Meanwhile, my mom did actually have a cisgender coworker change her name to something unusual, and it was never a problem

this topic reminded me that there's this dutch jazz fusion keyboard player who goes by "stormvogel" (which translates to "petrel") and he wants everyone, including his friends and family, to call him that. and from what i can tell (from seeing him live and listening to interviews with him), everyone actually does this and it's not a problem.

so yeah, if stuff like this isn't a problem, i can't imagine that jack wanting to be called "jill" or whatever should be a huge issue.

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Nanis23 posted...

Yes
After the previous topic when the entire board was against me, I don't want to have something like that again.
So I did my best to avoid this and talked about something that is not offensive in any way
But people were still offended

Maybe it's not because me, maybe it's because of Ulti or that 222222 dude, or Santa or one of the deleted posts, but I don't think they are offensive either

try reading again

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Nanis23 posted...

which is more of a language issue than a trans discussion

there's the sticking point: people for whom it's a mere "language issue" are interacting with people for whom it's a "trans discussion"

Kinda the same general issue you might have discussing any kinda minority issue- for some people it's just an interesting thing to talk about, but if you think of it that way you are (perhaps justifiably) often going to come across kinda heartless when you talk to somebody it actually affects beyond a level of "I don't like this language trend"

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Paratroopa1 posted...

Lesbians have weird power dynamics... and your example is a fictional couple

I'm pretty sure you don't know any of the several lesbians I could point to who would back me up. I pointed to a fictional example because it's clearly mainstream enough of a phenomenon if it makes it into a popular show.

You're acting very defensive about what I'm saying as if I'm personally attacking you or any lesbian, so again, I'm going to say I have literally no judgment on the matter. I've literally dated 4 lesbians in my life and I've been married to a trans man so I'm not entirely ignorant of the situations and cultures of queer communities. There's probably an inherent difference between two women dating that makes power dynamics weirder than a biological man and woman dating. And I use the word "weird" as a placeholder word to mean "could be perceived as red flags if genders were switched in this scenario" which is, as it is, an incredibly benign statement.

Paratroopa1 posted...

By the way, if you think lesbians have weird power dynamics, let me introduce you to heterosexual couples sometime. Some of the shit they do is WILD!

whats the "ok boomer" equivalent of LGBT stock redundant response. Yeah literally every couple has weird power dynamics, men women cats and dogs. Thank you for the the education.

Paratroopa1 posted...

Why is it that people always jump to like crazy names, like which trans people do you know (if you know any at all) that are calling themselves weird shit? Most will just ask you to call them a different normal first name. It isn't that hard. Even if it is weird, it doesn't matter. When people tell you their name that's what you call them. They probably aren't showing you their birth certificate so why do you give a fuck?

Again you're being very defensive about something that I was trying to expose about myself. Again, I am being called SANTA in this topic and in real life. I'm not try to call these people weird, I'm trying to identify a gut reaction within myself that cringes when I hear someone ask for a funny name. If you want to brag about how you don't have this gut reaction, thats fine. Maybe brad from accounting asks you to call him sea otter and you don't go home and tell your partner about it to kind of defrag what just happened. That's great for you. Maybe you're to most tolerant person in the world, and we should all be like you. But in my own personal experience, in grappling with my own demons, this was the realization that helped me get over my, well transphobia is a harsh word, but just the part of me that got a little ruffled at the thought of trans. If you wanna dissect this, and call me an asshole because I instinctively cringe when people want to change their names or gender, then you are absolutely right. You are right because you are parroting the exact sentiment that I just made with my statement. I'm not saying what I'm saying for you, because you're perfectly tolerant and don't need to worry about it. I'm saying what I'm saying because it's whats helped me be 1% less of an asshole and I'm talking to the other assholes reading this topic, hoping they can find a new perspective that can help them be more tolerant.

This wall of text would be completely unnecessary if you all could just learn to both read and comprehend at the same time, the artistry of my gamefaqs posts is lost on most of you.

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lol

I accept your apology, THANK YOU, now we can move on

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SantaRPidgey posted...

I've literally dated 4 lesbians in my life and I've been married to a trans man

Wha??

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Are you turning them

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I know theater girls sometimes en up dating multiple gay dudes, but I dont know what the male equivalent would be that puts you in a situation to date a bunch lesbians
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UltimaterializerX posted...

This is not how it would go. Stop playing dumb.

You're right, they'd probably go by Otter.

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Otter is a real surname. If someone was named Clarence, they might like to be called C. Otter instead.

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TomNook posted...

Otter is a real surname. If someone was named Clarence, they might like to be called C. Otter instead.

Is this a Canadian thing?

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

I know theater girls sometimes en up dating multiple gay dudes, but I dont know what the male equivalent would be that puts you in a situation to date a bunch lesbians

I think it's being an incredibly non-threatening male lacking testosterone that leads some girls toward me as their last pit stop before homosexuality.

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SantaRPidgey posted...

This wall of text would be completely unnecessary if you all could just learn to both read and comprehend at the same time, the artistry of my gamefaqs posts is lost on most of you.

has it ever occurred to you that if you're constantly misunderstood on this board, the problem may be that your posts are unclear at times and not that most people on the board can't read? >_>

not necessarily referring to the post i quoted but in general, this isn't the first time you've bragged about how "artistic" your posts are and how it's other people's fault that said posts are misunderstood. you seem to kind of lack self-reflection.

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SantaRPidgey posted...

I've literally dated 4 lesbians in my life and I've been married to a trans man

Torn between this is bullshit and maybe this is something you shouldn't admit.

Let you know when I come to a decision on which to take that.

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why should he not admit it

Mr Lasastryke posted...

has it ever occurred to you that if you're constantly misunderstood on this board, the problem may be that your posts are unclear at times and not that most people on the board can't read? >_>

Most of these plebs can't read James Joyce but no one ever asked him to dumb down his work.

side note, I also can't read James Joyce

Corrik7 posted...

Torn between this is bullshit and maybe this is something you shouldn't admit.

Yeah I have a surprising amount of people in my life telling me I shouldn't admit this. I have a commitment to oversharing though.

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SantaRPidgey posted...

Most of these plebs can't read James Joyce but no one ever asked him to dumb down his work.

side note, I also can't read James Joyce

right. but if you and i can't read james joyce, that doesn't mean we can't read period.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

You're right, they'd probably go by Otter.

there was actually a furry with a rainbow tail that went to my college named Otter

i never learned his (their?) real name but nobody really had a problem calling them Otter

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Dels posted...

why should he not admit it

Because it shows he clearly doesn't know how to recognise whether people are actually interested in a relationship with him.

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