Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 348: Trump Stumped by Massive Dumps

(+) Yeah! (+)

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Despite that they at least kept extending the unemployment benefits.

oh did they?

And Pelosi is getting a MUCH worse deal. It's less than half of what the White House offered and she deemed too little.

---

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Mind explaining? The stakes were highest when it looked like Trump could win reelection. And a second deal was not truly on the table until around election season. Despite that they at least kept extending the unemployment benefits.

The stakes are peoples livelihoods and being able to not die for he economy in the middle of a pandemic.

We are at the peak of the pandemic in almost every region in this country.

The actual stakes have nothing to do with the election or future/past elections.

---

Also no one has extended unemployment beyond the initial stimulus deal.

Trump EO'd some extra money for a few weeks but that has been it. That money hasn't been coming for months now.

---

I've seen ZERO extra money while on unemployment. 9/6 til today... the extra ended 9/5.

Granted, it isn't all about me. There are people who got laid off in March who will be running out of even eligibility, let alone not getting extra due to losing their job because OF A PANDEMIC AND LOCKDOWNS THAT THEIR GOVERNMENTS IMPOSED. lol

It's not like people just lost their jobs due to something that happened normally. It it literally a special circumstance that has people losing jobs for the public health at no fault of their own.

---

red13n posted...

The stakes are peoples livelihoods and being able to not die for he economy in the middle of a pandemic.

We are at the peak of the pandemic in almost every region in this country.

The actual stakes have nothing to do with the election or future/past elections.

I mean I know all this but what it does it mean from a practical standpoint

Let me back up. This is exactly why all the way back in March and April everyone was saying we needed stuff like UBI and rent forgiveness to stop a shitstorm in case we didn't get a second deal. Expediency won out. So I'll amend my statement and say stakes were highest at the start of the pandemic. I can pretty much unambiguously blame Pelosi here for settling and the GOP for refusing to entertain more deals. This has been a failure of leadership from the start.

But right now we are just arguing over bandaids. And bandaids are good but we needed continuous federal relief ages ago. I live in Texas dude, I and most people I know have been working in person since May, restaraunts have been open since then too. One dinky check earlier would not have stopped this and they won't stop much now either. The first one sure didn't! It just delayed the spike in the South. I'm so tired of this.

---

https://twitter.com/timjhogan/status/1333802930164486149

---

https://twitter.com/timjhogan/status/1333811407217958914

Needs the second part embedded for maximum impact.

---

unemployment extension was basically the remaining summer months, it was over by the time fall hit. no extra benefits have been added since then federally and probably not even in any state.

as it stands pelosi basically traded giving trump a win in october for losing double digit seats in the house and a stimulus worth under half what trump offered two months later as people are broke beyond broke. and like... sure, you can argue mcconnel wouldn't have passed it. but in that case you let him kill it instead and just win the senate immediately after.

---

Wanglicious posted...

unemployment extension was basically the remaining summer months, it was over by the time fall hit. no extra benefits have been added since then federally and probably not even in any state.

You are referring to the $600 unemployment bonus(And the $300 executive order), not the extension.

Unemployment was extended 13 additional weeks to 39. We are hitting right about that number since March right now.

---

oh. that one i don't know because states have a lot more control over that. for NY unemployment is 59 weeks right now.

thing is, claims are only good for a year in the current system so you'll have to re-apply and uhhh good luck. hope you saved up if that's the case.


---

States can extend but there is a federally mandated 39 weeks right now. They don't have "control" over that.

---

red13n posted...

Unemployment was extended 13 additional weeks to 39. We are hitting right about that number since March right now.

Yeah this is what I was thinking of when I said that. That expires on Jan 1st. I was mixing it up with the bonus money, I guess. My bad.

This is why we should have done UBI instead! It's easier!

---

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

This is why we should have done UBI instead! It's easier!

It's also way more expensive

I don't need to be getting a check, and the same is true of probably like 75% of the country or something. It would be much better to give more aid to the people who really need it.

---

I mean considering half the country was already on a one month from broke status before corona i wouldn't assume that.

---

There is no way McConnell would have killed it. If he dared try after President Trump gave the order to pass it, a bunch of Republican senators would vote for it anyway.

---

UBI was a good idea regardless of there being a pandemic. The unique economic problems that have occurred due to COVID have only made UBI more clearly a good thing.

---

https://twitter.com/alexkotch/status/1334901104996446209?s=21

---

I think this is probably the first time I can recall seeing a poll in recent memory where the responses from men were way better than the responses from women

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1334914001927610370?s=21

---

LordoftheMorons posted...

I think this is probably the first time I can recall seeing a poll in recent memory where the responses from men were way better than the responses from women

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1334914001927610370?s=21

Probably at least in part because Trump has been pushing the vaccine.

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/alexkotch/status/1334901104996446209?s=21

Reminiscent of hardcore Trumpers on the_donald always thinking Trump was playing 8D Galaxy Chess after he'd suffer some sort of political defeat.

---

LordoftheMorons posted...

I think this is probably the first time I can recall seeing a poll in recent memory where the responses from men were way better than the responses from women

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1334914001927610370?s=21

I had a relative overseas who was actually offered access to what must have been either the first wave or trials of the Chinese vaccine before Thanksgiving. He declined. Dunno if it's 100% the same, since I know the US vaccine has already been through trial, but still.

Anti-vax is one thing but hopefully people are just being skeptical. There's limited quantities so as long as skepticism doesn't outpace our ability to produce and distribute the vaccine, I won't blame anyone until we've got extra vaccine sitting in freezers.

---

I fully admit that if Trump had won the election I would be very skeptical of this vaccine no matter what they said, and likely wouldn't take it right away.

---

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I fully admit that if Trump had won the election I would be very skeptical of this vaccine no matter what they said, and likely wouldn't take it right away.

We still have a vigorous and thorough testing system in place for vaccines. Assuming nothing in the process changed with Trump winning, this would probably be the wrong take.

---

I can definitely see being more skeptical of a Chinese (or Russian) vaccine given how fast they rolled it out and their governments. The American and European vaccines all have external oversight, though.

But yeah, hopefully as the vaccine is deployed and people see that its safe theyll be less hesitant to take it by the time theres enough supply.

---

LordoftheMorons posted...

I can definitely see being more skeptical of a Chinese (or Russian) vaccine given how fast they rolled it out and their governments.

Yeah fuck that. You couldnt pay me to take one of those lol.

---

My pre-election stance was basically, "I trust Fauci and that is it in this administration. If Fauci says the vaccine is safe/trials were up to par then I'm good. If not consider me maximum sus"

---

I didnt trust Trump not to pull some shit, but I was pretty confident that if he did there would be plenty of whistleblowers.

---

If Fauci said it, sure.

Basically any other information coming out of the "CDC" I have considered at least potentially compromised since the Trump Administration got directly involved with their information distribution earlier this year.

---

i wouldn't associate this with anti-vax and honestly that's a huge mistake because it gives them way more justification and reasonableness. calling it that is just wrong; it's a new vaccine with a new procedure on an unprecedented timeline for a new virus, of course you should be suspicious and skeptical of it. that's normal.

there was another study that showed almost 50/50 and of the people who said they wouldn't take it, only 12% aligned with anti-vax reasons. everyone else was a variety of things that largely fall under "distrust." personally that's also where i am - i ain't beta testing shit. lemme see how people are months in, maybe a year (or two!), before i inject myself with anything. fortunately a healthy adult male in his 30s is pretty low on priorities and there'll be a lot of data and opinions of people in their 40s+ by the time i'd consider anything. by then i'd expect there to be a lot of advancements on the virus, treatments, and have a more exact view of what the vaccines are individually doing.

the age thing is also easy to explain without falling into conspiracies there: if you're younger you're less at risk of the negative effects of corona and need to worry more about the long term ones a vaccine can give. if you're 65+ of course the former's a bigger deal for you. that's just a logical answer.

---

Wanglicious posted...

lemme see how people are months in, maybe a year (or two!)

Yep we're never getting out of this cleanly.

---

https://twitter.com/postroz/status/1335006397013090307?s=21

---

Wanglicious posted...

if you're younger you're less at risk of the negative effects of corona and need to worry more about the long term ones a vaccine can give

This is completely false btw. We know COVID has had lasting effects in the young.

---

LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/postroz/status/1335006397013090307?s=21

this is also why i think the supreme court stuff is going to fall short in many ways.
there might be a few things PA has that they'll carefully rule on (e.g., standing vs ripeness) but it'll be very limited and not in a way that determines a winner in and of itself for that state. expect something procedural to be determined then back to a lower court. scope will - and should - be minimal. hell, some of the issues that go up may not be impact this race at all but pertain to future ones.

---

red13n posted...

This is completely false btw. We know COVID has had lasting effects in the young.

...where did i say otherwise.
you're just being combative for combative sake, you aren't even reading anymore.


---

You are saying people need to worry less about the negative effects of covid and more about the negative effects of the vaccine.

This is not factually backed.

---

not exactly what i said either. you're just being an ass looking for an online fight and bluntly, if that's all you've got to offer, you're worthless for any conversation on this and i've no interest in talking to you.

---

Wanglicious posted...

if you're younger you're less at risk of the negative effects of corona and need to worry more about the long term ones a vaccine can give.

Citation needed.

---

Wanglicious posted...

not exactly what i said either. you're just being an ass looking for an online fight and bluntly, if that's all you've got to offer, you're worthless for any conversation on this and i've no interest in talking to you.

it is in fact exactly what you said.

---

I dont think it counts as beta testing a vaccine if its already been approved through actual beta testing

Maybe more apt to say youre waiting for the first big patch
---

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Citation needed.

...a citation for something that's currently unknown?

---

Wang desperately backpedaling to try and stop anti-vax from being added to his many other problematic stances.

---

Going back to the vaccine thing, I absolutely am afraid of the vaccine. I know it's because I have a very hard time processing low probability events on an intuitive level, but I am sort of terrified if I get the vaccine I will get COVID from the vaccine and die.

---

Jakyl25 posted...

I dont think it counts as beta testing a vaccine if its already been approved through actual beta testing

Maybe more apt to say youre waiting for the first big patch

i mean i'd totally consider people getting a bunch of day 1 games these days to be beta testers too with how buggy they are. but like i said, by the time i'm even eligible it'll have gone through that so hey!

---

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Wang desperately backpedaling to try and stop anti-vax from being added to his many other problematic stances.

I think hes trying to claim I took him out of context by omitting "young" in a response.

But the response was to something where we were already talking about the "young"(He quoted me mentioning it as such) so me adding it would be redundant and unnecessary.

I am assuming hes trying to make this complete stretch of a semantic argument anyway.

---

Wanglicious posted...

i mean i'd totally consider people getting a bunch of day 1 games these days to be beta testers too with how buggy they are. but like i said, by the time i'm even eligible it'll have gone through that so hey!

You are likely to be eligible within the first 6 months of the year.

---

Yeah isnt the timeline supposed to be that they expect to have enough for everyone by the end of April?
---

Wanglicious posted...

...a citation for something that's currently unknown?

Yes.

If "concern about long time effects from a vaccine" is real enough to be weighed against what we already know about COVID then surely there must be documented long term effects from other vaccines.

Otherwise you are either (A) just mongering some pointless fear or are (B) legitimately buying into the anti-vaxxer bs that has been disproved, debunked and discredited ad nauseam.

---

red sox 777 posted...

Going back to the vaccine thing, I absolutely am afraid of the vaccine. I know it's because I have a very hard time processing low probability events on an intuitive level, but I am sort of terrified if I get the vaccine I will get COVID from the vaccine and die.

if it's the mRNA ones (Pfizer, Moderna) this isn't a concern since it's not injecting you with COVID. you do get sick afterwards but it's for a few days and relatively minor, though we do need more info. long term effects remain unknown but it's not COVID at least. fortunately we'll be getting a lot more data quick in the next few months; Pfizer meets with the FDA on the 10th, Moderna soon after, and that's when data will start getting independently analyzed and sorted though. i think we're generally in the same age bracket so unless you're in some sort of priority position (e.g., doctor, nurse) you aren't going to even have the option until at least spring so just pay attention there.

---

red sox 777 posted...

Going back to the vaccine thing, I absolutely am afraid of the vaccine. I know it's because I have a very hard time processing low probability events on an intuitive level, but I am sort of terrified if I get the vaccine I will get COVID from the vaccine and die.

The RNA-based vaccines dont use covid itself at all (even an inactivated version). Its not even hypothetically possible that you could get covid from one. They basically just built in something that targets covids spike protein.

---

Jakyl25 posted...

Yeah isnt the timeline supposed to be that they expect to have enough for everyone by the end of April?

All adults, kids are still going to need their own trial process still.

Buy yeah thats about right.

---