Current Events > Dropping the Bomb: Hiroshima and Nagasaki

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://youtu.be/RCRTgtpC-Go
I've been waiting 7 months for a new Shaun video and this is damn well gonna be worth it.

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ok... so 2 hours long... what is this

Ill expect a report on my desk Monday morning... oh, and pics of Spider-Man too

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who

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the allies (primarily british and US) intentionally bombed civilian targets starting in '43 (iirc)

the a-bombs were completely unnecessary to end the war. it was already won and japan was ready to surrender. the US knew this. they dropped them anyway.

Sictis posted...

ok... so 2 hours long... what is this

An in-depth dissection of the many justifications for dropping nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and why they're wrong. I assume; I haven't watched it, but that's Shaun's MO and he made some anti-nuking-civilians posts a few months ago.

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Omnislasher posted...

the allies (primarily british and US) intentionally bombed civilian targets starting in '43 (iirc)

the a-bombs were completely unnecessary to end the war. it was already won and japan was ready to surrender. the US knew this. they dropped them anyway.

Maybe they thought the bomb was just a dud, probably safer to lighten the load then to bring them back home for inspection.

First 5 minutes:

The argument that the bombs were the better alternative to a long invasion is bullshit because it seems (as quoted by major US Commanders/Admirals etc.) the Japanese were ready to surrender before the bombs were dropped.

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Tag for later
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ALIEN_WORK2HOP posted...

First 5 minutes:

The argument that the bombs were the better alternative to a long invasion is bullshit because it seems (as quoted by major US Commanders/Admirals etc.) the Japanese were ready to surrender before the bombs were dropped.

that would make sense since we firebombed the shit out of tokyo; there was nothing left.

And thus anime was born.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFZzYLXvQ30

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The bombs were meant to make sure all japanese would surrender as there were some who still wanted to fight to death. But mainly to show the world not to mess with america. A scare tactic for the Russians who were gaining power.

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The argument that the Japanese were going to surrender without the bombs has never sat quite right with me, considering there was a coup attempt against the emperor when he decided to surrender even after the bombs and the Soviet declaration of war.
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As horrific as it was and as much as I disagree with the choice, it was inevitable that nukes would be dropped somewhere. There's 0 chance that people would create a weapon like that and not use it even once, even knowing it's wrong.

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UnholyMudcrab posted...

The argument that the Japanese were going to surrender without the bombs has never sat quite right with me, considering there was a coup attempt against the emperor when he decided to surrender even after the bombs and the Soviet declaration of war.

i also remember reading a historians take that the japanese capitulated to us because the russians were about to invade from the east and they knew that was a worse option.

ALIEN_WORK2HOP posted...

First 5 minutes:

The argument that the bombs were the better alternative to a long invasion is bullshit because it seems (as quoted by major US Commanders/Admirals etc.) the Japanese were ready to surrender before the bombs were dropped.

THIS

wrote a paper wayyyyyy a long ways ago about this

Poop2 posted...

i also remember reading a historians take that the japanese capitulated to us because the russians were about to invade from the east and they knew that was a worse option.

Correct. By sheer coincidence, the second nuke was dropped on the last day the Soviets were required to declare war on the Japanese by the agreement at Yalta.

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the bomb is not for stopping Japan, it's a display of power so no one will fuck with America.
which is pretty successful apart from the fact that Russia getting interested on having one of their own. and some other countries later.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17lkdqoLt44

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Garioshi posted...

Correct. By sheer coincidence, the second nuke was dropped on the last day the Soviets were required to declare war on the Japanese by the agreement at Yalta.

yeah sounds like a US power move

Good video. Learned quite a bit from that.

Last time I chipped in on the bombing of Japan I ended up looking like a heartless piece of shit.

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Solid Sonic posted...

Last time I chipped in on the bombing of Japan I ended up looking like a heartless piece of shit.

I wonder why

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UnholyMudcrab posted...

The argument that the Japanese were going to surrender without the bombs has never sat quite right with me, considering there was a coup attempt against the emperor when he decided to surrender even after the bombs and the Soviet declaration of war.

Rough summary:
"We curbstomped all your outlying islands. Surrendering yet?"
"Maybe, but we want to keep the emperor"
"Fuck off"
"No, you fuck off!"
"Yo, we firebomed the shit out of Tokyo. Surrender yet?"
"Maybe, but we want to keep the emperor"
"Fuck off"
"No, you fuck off!"
"Hey, we just obliterated two of your cities with a single bomb each. Also the Soviets want to come break everything. Surrender yet?"
"Oh shit, yes we will"
"Fucking finally. Also you can keep your emperor."

^fuck off

yutterh posted...

The bombs were meant to make sure all japanese would surrender as there were some who still wanted to fight to death. But mainly to show the world not to mess with america. A scare tactic for the Russians who were gaining power.

THIS

People ignore the fuck out of this and it drives me mad

America did not fear a landwar with Japan, even before you get into Japan surrendering

They feared Russia gaining more power because they knew the next decades of conflict would be with Russia

Anyone who ignores this is ignoring reality.

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I'll wait for Supernova in the East VI.

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Questionmarktarius posted...

Rough summary:
"We curbstomped all your outlying islands. Surrendering yet?"
"Maybe, but we want to keep the emperor"
"Fuck off"
"No, you fuck off!"
"Yo, we firebomed the shit out of Tokyo. Surrender yet?"
"Maybe, but we want to keep the emperor"
"Fuck off"
"No, you fuck off!"
"Hey, we just obliterated two of your cities with a single bomb each. Also the Soviets want to come break everything. Surrender yet?"
"Oh shit, yes we will"
"Fucking finally. Also you can keep your emperor."

This is the most asinine post Ive ever seen on this board.

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ALIEN_WORK2HOP posted...

First 5 minutes:

The argument that the bombs were the better alternative to a long invasion is bullshit because it seems (as quoted by major US Commanders/Admirals etc.) the Japanese were ready to surrender before the bombs were dropped.

Except that the allies weren't entirely sure of that, aside from a soft peace scenario that they were worried would be a Versailles2.0 situation and lead to another future war, and there wasn't consensus belief of that either. Especially given Japanese suicidal defense of Okinawa, Iwo Jima, and the Philippines, and with their still entrenched positions in China, the Allies had plenty of reason to believe that a powerful pro-wae faction was still in charge in Japan, as can be further evident that they didn't surrender after the first bomb, didn't surrender for weeks after the second bomb, suffered multiple brutal bombing campaigns between the second nuking and surrender, had a palace coup to try to prevent surrender last minute, and the Allies set up plans for a third nuking before the Japanese finally surrendered unconditionally with a last minute agreement to keep the emperor in pJim,

Using hindsight is good, but it's in very bad faith to not recognize the many reasons why the bombs were dropped, especially with contemporary confusion and biases about how the war had progressed and how the previous war ended.

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