Board 8 > The top 10 "what if" questions in GameFAQs contests history

(+) Yeah! (+)

Allen's mealy mouthed response of "no DDoS" blah blah is why I literally despise everything about him.

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Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I do still believe Link would have won his match with Draven if not for the downtime.

ExThaNemesis posted...

Allen's mealy mouthed response of "no DDoS" blah blah is why I literally despise everything about him.

I don't believe there was no DDoS either tbh.

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I also find it suspicious that oftentimes when there's a moderately heavily rallied match, SBAllen announces that the loser attempted to vote stuff at a 2 to 1 ratio compared to the winner.
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actually another fun what if is "what if Allen's wife gets away with it" in Draven/Mewtwo/Seph

because Link's already gone at that point, so would it just be Snake's contest to lose or would Mewtwo become even more fraudulent by riding this bandwagon to victory

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Yeah, 2013 is stacked with what if questions, probably more than 2005.

I loved Mario 1/Zelda 1/Mario 3/Mario World so much it almost made up for it momentarily, though it really didn't. Surprised at #1.

My list would definitely look different, but it's a really fun subject all these years later.

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I might try to come up with a "what if" from each contest that hasn't been mentioned yet. For 2002, what if Crono beats Mario? Obviously we had no concept of SFF in 2002, so Link rocking Mario might have skewed perceptions going into 2003. If Crono puts up 42% on Link, does Cloud's 2003 run seem a little less shocking?

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"what if zelda stopped after wind waker?" would be a fun one that would require a lot of research i think


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Also a little thing from 2003 that has more impact on the board than the contests itself: What if Slowflake doesn't guess Sephiroth/Raziel's percentage exactly right? That birthed the Oracle Challenge and then a ton of subsequent board prediction contests thereafter. Maybe it eventually happens organically because we just love contests, but it's just a fun tidbit of board history.

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ZenOfThunder posted...

"what if zelda stopped after wind waker?" would be a fun one that would require a lot of research i think

Oh yeah, like would Link have just gradually have started falling off the way Cloud and Seph did? Does Cloud beat him again in 2004 without the TP hype?

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nah, Nintendo is timeless. look at Samus - I havent studied this but there hasnt been a noticeable shift in her strength that has anything to do with her game releases (or lack thereof)

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Samus is bizarre because she hasn't had a big non-Smash game since the GameCube and now she's probably the strongest she's ever been relative to the field.

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2004 - what if there are no company caps and the Hyrule and Midgar divisions aren't stacked?

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'What if Nintendo tells Square to fuck off when they are assholes about Final Fantasy music in Smash Bros.?'

How badly does Cloud get smoked by Mario?

Does he even survive Crono, or is it close enough that B8 rallies Crono to one of the most shocking upsets in contest history?

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Yeah no Cloud in Smash is a good one that almost certainly is enough for Mario > Cloud in 2018.

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As an extension, does no Cloud in Smash affect FFVII's general relevance here, causing a drop for the rest of the crew?

Do hentai rallies never become a thing since they aren't enough to help Tifa hang on against X's rallies? Does Mega Man X beat Sephiroth in the same year that Pikachu beats the original?

Would this have stopped Zelda from having a rally source to hold on against Snake?

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Spoilers hentai rallies are more of a joke than an actual factor

But no, like most things, it dies off if it doesn't work!

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What if Vincent debuted before 2005? A lot of what ifs with that one. Is he weaker before without Dirge and then surges in 2005? And do we accurately predict that surge? Or is he still relatively strong in earlier years but the lack of hype in 2005 is enough to allow Squall to beat him? And do we accurately predict that?

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I highly doubt Dirge did much for Vincent because it's not like anyone actually liked that game or even expected it to be good.

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Also, I wonder how "timeless" Nintendo is if Smash doesn't exist because it keeps someone like Samus perpetually relevant.

In particular, I wonder how strong Kirby is without it.

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Let's look at some other contest-specific "what if" questions.

2003 - What if Kefka loses to Pac-Man? Do we ever see him again? Well, I guess he'd have been in the Villains Contest, but still, it's funny to think about.

What if you switch Sora and Squall as 6 seeds in 2003? Sora wouldn't have gotten demolished by SFF against Aerith, and would he have been able to beat Luigi? People got mad when Squall did it, but I feel like the anger would've been even greater if lame old Sora had done it. Plus, Squall/Aerith is a great round 1 match that Aerith is probably heavily favored to win, and I don't know who would've won it.

Games 2004 - What if CJayC didn't put in a "one game per series per division" rule? I guess this is mostly for FFVIII because I'm pretty sure he said it would've made the bracket if it was just done by straight nominations. I don't know if there were any other notable potential snubs. Or what if nominations weren't literally "nominate one game per console?" Halo doesn't wind up with a 1 seed, for sure, so we miss out on the Starcraft upset (and maybe Starcraft altogether).

Characters 2004 - This bracket is so ravaged by SFF that the only real question you can ask is "What if the bracket doesn't suck?" Maybe switch some of the Noble Niners around so we get something like Sonic/Snake or Mega Man/Crono, I guess. This really is low key one of the worst contests. Only Frog's run saves it from the trash heap.

Villains - I guess the biggest what if here (and the only one worth caring about from this contest) is what if Bowser and Ganondorf are on the same side of the bracket. It's been 15 years, and we've still never seen this match in any form. Certainly not quite on the level of Mario/Sonic in terms of a missed opportunity, but it's the two biggest Nintendo villains and you can make an argument that Bowser could win it.

Characters 2005 - What if the Villains Contest never happened? I'm a firm believer Bowser and Ganondorf were as beastly as they were because of the Villains Contest. Their prediction percentages were absurd. Bowser nearly beat Snake, for crying out loud, sprite or not (and it wasn't the awful sprite Snake usually gets either). Bowser in particular hasn't looked as good as he did here ever since, and Ganondorf low key hasn't either (although his dropoff hasn't been quite as precipitous). Could Auron have beaten Ganondorf? What about Ryu/Bowser or Kirby/Bowser? This is a minor one, admittedly, because it may not change any results at all, but I do wonder about it.

Series - What if you switched Pokemon and Smash Bros. in the bracket? This was the first hint that Pokemon might not be the joke franchise it was before the Nintendo Boost when it nearly hung 48% on Metroid. Now imagine it's up against Sonic. What chance do you give it of utterly embarrassing a franchise that routinely gets embarrassed at least once per contest?

(also what if Halo actually had swung 10,000 votes against Castlevania like Lopen predicted)

Characters 2006 - What if Sub-Zero had been in 2002 instead of Scorpion? Would all you losers who picked Master Chief to win this match have made that mistake again after I repeatedly told you Sub-Zero was the most popular MK character and would beat Chief? I dunno, this is another contest that's kinda hard to dissect because of the obvious male/female bracket issue.

(also what if Ganondorf had beaten Sonic? Would Heroic Mario still be here?)

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There is no way stuff like Contra or Metal Gear outnominates Mario 1, so we likely see a Mario vs. Mario division final if we remove the series cap. We also probably don't get Starcraft in the contest at all, as that spot might go to GTAIII?

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Oh right, Mario 1.

Yet another time it gets ripped off by the format!

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WI Magus and Shadow are allowed in the Villain Contest? I guess Shadow was already kind of exposed in 2004, but what happens with Magus? Although watch him beat Ganondorf in the sprite round then overperform against Sephiroth in the finals or something.

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2007 - What if Donkey Kong isn't in the L-Block/Kratos/Kirby match? The L-Block run needed a bit of luck early on with some fortuitous bracket placement. Or did it? This part of L-Block's history is often forgotten because of how overwhelming it was after this, but this was one of the first big instances of what we'd later call LFF (I think I coined this term? This isn't me trying to brag because I don't totally remember, but I think I did!) rearing its ugly head. What if you stuck some other random round 2 loser in here, like, say, Raiden instead? There was a belief that L-Block would get 27%+ no matter what the opponent was in this format, so I wanted to pick one of the weaker characters who advanced from round 1! Would Kirby and Kratos have been able to get a high enough percentage to oust L-Block? It's an interesting question because I don't think it's guaranteed L-Block loses, but it's worth considering.

2008 - What if Big Boss gets a Naked Snake picture in Big Boss/Kirby/Master Chief/Raiden? Here we are again with Kirby and that loser Raiden! One of the most shocking results in 2008 was Big Boss putting up 48% in a fourpack with Kirby/Lucas/Jinjo (seriously, this fourpack alone tells you what was wrong with 2008. Too many joke characters and too many Smash characters!) featuring the Naked Snake pic he (controversially to some) got in 2007 when he upset Magus. In round 2, Big Boss already had to deal with the handicap of having Raiden LFFing him, and then he got his old man pic on top of that. Even then, he didn't finish too far behind Kirby and Master Chief for third. I think it's pretty easy to say he advances if you take Raiden out, but it's a more debatable matter if you simply give him a different picture. Could he have advanced again the next round with Kirby/Dante/Leon? What if it's Kirby/Big Boss/Sephiroth/Sonic?

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Majora's Mask is another game that likely got snubbed by the odd parameters of 2004.

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Maybe? I feel like people still kinda hated Majora's Mask in 2004. Same reason I don't think FFIX would have necessarily made it. It was the black sheep here in 2004. But maybe it would have because we still loved all things FF. FFIV might have made it, too, who knows!

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Leon is making me want to rank contests

that can be my next year project. I have a few other contest ideas but I do them like once a year

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LeonhartFour posted...

Games 2004 - What if CJayC didn't put in a "one game per series per division" rule? I guess this is mostly for FFVIII because I'm pretty sure he said it would've made the bracket if it was just done by straight nominations. I don't know if there were any other notable potential snubs

Pokemon RBY in 2004 intrigues me. It wouldn't be the Top 10 level game it is now, but GSC wasn't terrible against Xenogears, and that's the floor for RBY.

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Yeah, G/S/C did all right, but it's hard to tell how strong Xenogears was that year because it ran into FFVII in round 2.

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Samus was #4 in the X-stats before Prime came out. Granted, Mario and Cloud are behind SFF that year, but it's still incredibly impressive on Smash, nostalgia, and hype for Prime. And she didn't really boost much once Prime actually came out, did she? So yeah, I'd say more Smash than anything. That being said, it stuns me that she is the one the Smash fans have chosen to be their rep. She always felt much stronger than she reasonably should be to me.

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Games 2009 - What if Final Fantasy X doesn't reach the final? I love FFX as much as anybody, but I can admit it got a very fortunate path to the final in 2009. It was the beneficiary of an OoT vs. R/B/Y vs. Melee matchup in the quarterfinals, followed by a OoT/Brawl/MGS4 matchup in the semis. It didn't even beat R/B/Y or MGS4 by that much despite its advantages. Obviously, the final with OoT/FFVII/LttP changes even more depending on whether it's R/B/Y or MGS4. We often say that Nintendo fans know when to fall in line, and LttP certainly did its part, but R/B/Y proved to be more resistant than most. Would it stand up well enough for FFVII to emerge victorious?

Characters & GOTD 2010 - This is more of an overall contest thing for this era, but what if 12-hour matches were never a thing? I'll be honest. I never liked 12-hour matches. I get why Allen did it because he wanted to keep the larger bracket sizes without having a 4 month contest, but it just felt like such a half-baked solution (literally). It just felt like it drained some of the drama and excitement out of the contests for me because it seemed like I missed half of the contest. I literally have no recollection of Melee/Brawl despite it being one of the most hyped matches of all-time because it was a night match. Plus, as someone who's been recording contest trends since...2008, I think, cutting the matches short completely wrecked trends and probably killed some comebacks. I don't regard these two contests (GOTD especially) as highly as some people do because of it despite having some really interesting results.

Rivalry Rumble - The only legit question to ask is "What if Allen put Mario/Sonic into the bracket?" I think it would've won the contest. It certainly would've made this contest worth remembering, if nothing else.

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I'm still pettily annoyed that people wasted time rallying for clearly ineligible stuff in Rivalry Rumble instead of supporting Tifa Vs. Aerith.

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No Barkley no peace

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Yesmar_ posted...

I'm still pettily annoyed that people wasted time rallying for clearly ineligible stuff in Rivalry Rumble instead of supporting Tifa Vs. Aerith.

hey I was on board with Tifa/Aerith!

also Ramza/Delita is not a rivalry, shame on you people who nominated it

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As bad as the contest was, there were so many missed opportunities and bad bracketing that I think a second Rivalry Contest might not be the worst.

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Mario/Sonic didn't make the field because it was superseded in noms by Mario/Bowser. I was the one who sent in that feedback ticket and got that response. I know that means we have to take Allen at his word but I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say we really did lose that one. It'd be a little more sus if we were talking about a character that's like 5 or 6-seed material, but Mario is pretty consistently one of the two or three most-nominated characters in the field sitewide. I find it hard to believe that even our fairly large community could outdo that when he represents half of the most famous hero/villain pairing in all of gaming.

I suppose the one argument you could make is that perhaps the fact that Mario had so many potential rivals that he could have been paired with (Bowser, DK, Wario, hell even Luigi would have been a legit pick) means there was a chance that they might have LFF'd each other and allowed Board 8 to vote in Sonic, but I seriously doubt any of them matched the Mario/Bowser votes.

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Is Mario/Sonic even eligible? The rivalry wasn't actually in a video game. I know that people used those Olympic games as an excuse, but what's the premise there? Couldn't you then argue that Mario/Peach are rivals because of Mario Kart?

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Mario/Sonic is more of a rivalry than like 90% of the Rivalry Rumble field.

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Underleveled posted...

Mario/Sonic didn't make the field because it was superseded in noms by Mario/Bowser. I was the one who sent in that feedback ticket and got that response. I know that means we have to take Allen at his word but I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say we really did lose that one.

No, I believe Mario/Bowser got more noms, but this is because Allen deliberately played dirty to ensure they did. We repeatedly asked him from the jump whether Mario/Sonic was eligible, and he was purposefully noncommittal and vague. In addition, he refused to add Mario/Sonic to the nomination database. Only after noms closed did he say Mario/Sonic was eligible, but it just so happened to conveniently not get enough nominations.

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Characters 2013 - What if Mario beat Vivi? I know people love that upset, but it also robbed me of the chance to see if Squall could've beaten Mario with Pokemon Trainer Red in the same poll. That could've been Squall's last real chance to beat a Noble Niner.

also what if paulg doesn't deliberately sabotage Vincent's picture

Mewtwo probably still wins anyway based on what we saw of Vincent in 2018 but that doesn't make it any less bad form

Games 2015 - It's hard to think of a "what if" that isn't a result of a rally. Let's go with "what's the weakest '90s game you could've put in Super Mario RPG's spot that still would've gone as deep into the contest as it did?" Mega Man X? Final Fantasy Tactics? Resident Evil 2? Symphony of the Night? Sonic 2?

Characters 2018 - This is a simple one, but what if Allen inverted the winners and losers after the first round like he should have? It would've prevented a bunch of useless rematches.

Game of the Decade 2 - Uhhh, what if Super Mario Odyssey wasn't totally wasted? I dunno. I feel like I've barely thought about this contest since it ended.

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I was more interested to see Smash against 'real' competition than Mario. that game felt so fraudulent. it would have been nice to see both Smash and Mario on neutral ground given that Witcher looked to be on par with both.

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Yeah, I guess they were both pretty wasted. I wasn't as skeptical of Ultimate as you were, but either way, it would've been nice to see them face actual tests.

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I mean, Xenoblade has to be neck and neck with Skyrim for Smash to beat Witcher 3. and... maybe? but that's not encouraging.

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I dunno, everything in that division pointed to Odyssey beating Smash, too, and it didn't!

I get Nintendo vs. Nintendo is different, but yeah.

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yeah I'm not convinced that Smash is actually stronger

but we'll never know

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Yeah, I would not trust Xenoblade or Odyssey's values at all because of Smash. Obviously, Mario vs. Smash is never going to be transitive no matter what the result is, and who knows if Xenoblade might be a bit inflated from winning it's division with both a low prediction percentage and being in a nail-biter the previous round?

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I fully believe Persona 4 and Xenoblade are weaker than they appeared, Xenoblade's result against Smash can definitely not be taken at face value with certainty. There's space for Xenoblade to lose to Skyrim and Smash to beat Witcher. Not saying I believe it would, just that Smash/Xenoblade tell us nothing.

I believe Smash just doesn't have the same GotD respect as a lot of the field seemed to have, which prevented it from nailing as impressive results. It's chances to beat Witcher should be bigger in a Best Game Ever than a Game of the Decade.

Also, the biggest what if that contest might be what if franchises were allowed more than two nominations.

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ctesjbuvf posted...

Also, the biggest what if that contest might be what if franchises were allowed more than two nominations.

still not convinced this was actually a thing or that we actually missed out on anything worthwhile even if it were

most of the stuff that was "snubbed" would've sucked and I could see not enough people caring about it to get it in

you all wanted Skyward Sword that badly huh

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Wasn't it you that argued to me that SS would be guaranteed in a 128 field before the contest? I might be wrong.

Anyway, there's just no way entries weren't purposely made diverse. SS is already a fine example, none of the Mario Makers or 3DLand/World making it in? The Pokemon fanbase magically agreeing to all collectively nominate a remake (in some parts of the world not even from the 10s) to a #3 seed with nothing else even making it in? Nick somehow failing to get Captain Toad into this field when board 8 usually dominates nominations? Look at some of the low seeds, Allen definitely made some decisions about representation there.

Whether or not they would be worthwhile is a different conversation and a lot of it might have sucked, but how good Mario Kart 8 ended up looking shows that we might very well have had some more exciting matches this way, which the cookie cutter bracket and round 1 in particular really needed. As annoying as it would've been for lesser Nintendo games to potentially upset better games, from a contest perspective, it would've been more fun even if they sucked as it would've been more matches debatable.

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