Board 8 > Ant-Man and The Wasp

(+) Yeah! (+)

This movie really did not give a crap about its own in-universe rules, huh? Still, really fun movie. I forgot about the post-credits scene, which I previously watched in preparation for Endgame. Glad I forgot, since it has spoilers for the movie itself.

Why did so many people seem to dislike this movie when it came out?

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it's a pretty good movie but it was wedged in a packed year and was unfortunately an Endgame lead-in so expectations were very high

i don't know anyone that hates it. sonny burch is great. ghost is cool. michael pena is funny (although I'm sure some people will fight me on that). I also really like paul rudd's big dad energy.

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The movie is..fine? I just don't think it does anything to make itself stand out from a generic MCU film.

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I seem to remember not so flattering headlines on websites. Also my brother really hates it, so that may be skewing my perception.

But yeah, isn't the entire fundamental idea behind Ant-Man's powers that even when he's small his body maintains all of its density/momentum/whatever as if he was big, and that's why his punches actually work when he's shrunk?

But now you have a tiny portable building, pez dispensers that cause motorcycles to crash, and cars that turn into hot wheels. I know I'm overthinking it but they didn't even try to explain it away with some dumb one-liner.

Also pretty much everything in this movie happening was all a million coincidences at once. But I don't mind that as much for some reason.

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I really wanted one mcu movie to take place after infinity war but before endgame, although it would probably have been insanely difficult to fit it into the storyline in a way that makes sense.

Never the less AMatW wasnt bad, but kinda just there. I thought the scene with Hank amd Janet was really nice and well done by Douglass and Pfeifer, and the jokes were decent.

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Oh man, I never thought about that. A pre-blip movie would be GREAT. Instead the world kind of just paused for 5 years while the avengers pity-partied. What were all the bad guys doing during that time?

Are there any Disney+ shows that are supposed to take place pre-blip? Or has Disney moved on?

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RikkuAlmighty posted...

But yeah, isn't the entire fundamental idea behind Ant-Man's powers that even when he's small his body maintains all of its density/momentum/whatever as if he was big, and that's why his punches actually work when he's shrunk?

But now you have a tiny portable building, pez dispensers that cause motorcycles to crash, and cars that turn into hot wheels. I know I'm overthinking it but they didn't even try to explain it away with some dumb one-liner.

I'm a bit confused how these are at odds. In the latter, they're just shrinking and expanding things. The Pez dispenser causes the motorcycle to crash because they blew it up to like 300x its size, there's not really any need for there to be some kind of science explanation about it. It's just "I threw it then made it go big." Likewise, they're shrinking real cars.

I don't think there's really anything deeper to it.

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Unless you're talking about the difference in properties between Ant-Man himself and the items they shrink/expand. That's because the funky science stuff behind Ant-Man is specifically because of the suit, whereas in the latter there's no special suit or anything, they're just straight up making stuff bigger and smaller.

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I thought the science of the whole shrinking/expanding thing was that the item itself maintained its density (i'm not a science guy). Like basically mini-ant man punch will still have the same force as regular Ant-Man punch. So theoretically a blown up pez dispenser should just fly away when hit by a motorcycle because it would still weigh less than half a pound. And the building would also not be portable because it would still weigh like a building.

Am I just wrong?

I thought that was why Ant-Man was able to actually punch things with impact when mini.

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I think he keeps his density, but the Pym particles shift his mass to a different dimension. I mean, he rode flying ants in the first movie, which he wouldn't have been able to do if he still weighed the same as he did when he was regular size. And I think when he gets bigger, he pulls mass from the same dimension, which is why he becomes more powerful. Something like that.

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RikkuAlmighty posted...

I thought the science of the whole shrinking/expanding thing was that the item itself maintained its density (i'm not a science guy). Like basically mini-ant man punch will still have the same force as regular Ant-Man punch. So theoretically a blown up pez dispenser should just fly away when hit by a motorcycle because it would still weigh less than half a pound. And the building would also not be portable because it would still weigh like a building.

Am I just wrong?

I thought that was why Ant-Man was able to actually punch things with impact when mini.

I don't know the specifics behind Ant-Man himself, but the density/strength/such remaining is specifically because of the suit itself. When they shrink or expand objects, they're just straight up shrinking and expanding them. So when the Pez dispenser became like a 15 foot Pez dispenser, it had the mass to match. The suit itself is specifically what gives Ant-Man those special properties where he keeps his strength and all that. The suit's engineered to work with the Pym particles in a way that isn't applied when they just expand/shrink objects.

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ok that's good enough for me then

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I'd have to actually research the specific "science" behind it on like the wikis and junk, but that's why they need the suits instead of just throwing those little discs at themselves like they do other objects.

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yeah don't get caught up in the whole density when shrinking thing

I'm pretty sure in real life if something was actually shrunk that much it would tear a hole through the earth or something I dunno, I'm not a scientist

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new beef

ghost's condition makes no goddamn sense she should have sunk to the center of the fucking earth immediately after the explosion.

but phasing into hank's neck and grabbing his vocal chords was pretty metal

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RikkuAlmighty posted...

Oh man, I never thought about that. A pre-blip movie would be GREAT. Instead the world kind of just paused for 5 years while the avengers pity-partied. What were all the bad guys doing during that time?

its more a during blip movie. But ya, i thought Ant Man and the Wasp could have done that. It would be hard to pull off though.

edit: Is the blip when Thanos snaps them out or when Tony snaps them back in?

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Pym Particles (also known as Cross Particles) are subatomic particles of an extra dimensional nature that are capable of shunting or adding mass and reducing or increasing scale of any form of matter, compressing physical forces around such objects or organisms that they are applied to, as well as increasing density and strength of the subject.

The process of altering size compresses force and energy, manifesting as brief shockwaves of vibration around the target, which enhances the amount of force the target can generate. It also enhances the density and resilience of a target, making them stronger and harder than normal. Living subjects of this develop inhuman effort and exertion capabilities, notably giving them the force of a bullet while shrunk.

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Metal_DK posted...

its more a during blip movie. But ya, i thought Ant Man and the Wasp could have done that. It would be hard to pull off though.

wait

i forgot did infinity war end with everyone getting blipped? they all kinda blur in my memory at this point.

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ZenOfThunder posted...

Pym Particles (also known as Cross Particles) are subatomic particles of an extra dimensional nature that are capable of shunting or adding mass and reducing or increasing scale of any form of matter, compressing physical forces around such objects or organisms that they are applied to, as well as increasing density and strength of the subject.

The process of altering size compresses force and energy, manifesting as brief shockwaves of vibration around the target, which enhances the amount of force the target can generate. It also enhances the density and resilience of a target, making them stronger and harder than normal. Living subjects of this develop inhuman effort and exertion capabilities, notably giving them the force of a bullet while shrunk.

thank you for this. it's all gibberish still but it's coherent enough to allow me to sleep at night

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ZenOfThunder posted...

Pym Particles (also known as Cross Particles) are subatomic particles of an extra dimensional nature that are capable of shunting or adding mass and reducing or increasing scale of any form of matter, compressing physical forces around such objects or organisms that they are applied to, as well as increasing density and strength of the subject.

The process of altering size compresses force and energy, manifesting as brief shockwaves of vibration around the target, which enhances the amount of force the target can generate. It also enhances the density and resilience of a target, making them stronger and harder than normal. Living subjects of this develop inhuman effort and exertion capabilities, notably giving them the force of a bullet while shrunk.

https://images.app.goo.gl/n89o41fC3yUfCPd6A

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RikkuAlmighty posted...

wait

i forgot did infinity war end with everyone getting blipped? they all kinda blur in my memory at this point.

Yeah. Ant-Man and the Wasp is happening at the same time as Infinity War, hence the credits scene.

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that's the snap isn't it

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Oh wait I'm confused

What's the "blip"

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when they all returned. they call it the blip in spiderman far from home.

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Oh. Infinity War ends with the snap. The blip happens during Endgame.

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now the only MCU movie i haven't seen is thor 2.

is there any value in watching thor 2

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RikkuAlmighty posted...

now the only MCU movie i haven't seen is thor 2.

is there any value in watching thor 2

They unfortunately reference it a decent amount in endgame, and the next Thor film, by all accounts, will heavily feature Natalie Portman.

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other than that, no

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i figured thor's recap of thor 2 in endgame was marvel poking fun at itself over how bad thor 2 was, while also making it so you did not actually have to watch it to understand the key parts of thor 2, such as they were.

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Yeah I mean you miss out on understanding how he felt running into his mother but really who cares about thor pre-ragnarock. Biggest worry is how hard they are leaning into Portman in the newest Thor film, but at this point the next phase of marvel could be anything

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wait

just watch thor 2 while doing something okay i've watched it a second time you can do it

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I fell asleep while watching Thor 2 in theaters.

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Thor 2 is easily the worst. But even the worst Marvel movie is still at least entertaining. There are good moments in it.

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thor 2 or wonder woman 2

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Thor 2's definitely better than Wonder Woman 2, but that's not a great achievement.

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RikkuAlmighty posted...

thor 2 or wonder woman 2

Thor 2

I liken Thor 2 to Ant Man and the Wasp a lot, actually (and Incredible Hulk). It's not bad, but not really good either. Just there, and largely forgettable. You honestly don't need to watch any of the three of them and they are easily the three weakest movies in the MCU.

As for the Ant Man physics - they weren't consistent with them in the first movie either. At all. Hank Pym carried a 45 ton tank on his keychain and Scott goes from shattering the bathroom tiles to being able to run along the barrel of a gun. They basically asked themselves "would this be cool?" and if the answer was yes then rules be damned, it went in.

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can put my hand through her
still able to sit on bed

move around miniature lab
furniture still exactly where it was before

Movie was terrible.

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masterplum posted...

can put my hand through her
still able to sit on bed

move around miniature lab
furniture still exactly where it was before

https://youtu.be/hstdINH9Lk0


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ChichiriMuyo posted...

I liken Thor 2 to Ant Man and the Wasp a lot, actually (and Incredible Hulk). It's not bad, but not really good either. Just there, and largely forgettable. You honestly don't need to watch any of the three of them and they are easily the three weakest movies in the MCU.

Ant Man and the Wasp is kinda forgettable ya, but I think its a tad unfair to put it on Thor 2 or Incredible Hulk's level, which just seem out of place or bad.

Aecioo posted...

They unfortunately reference it a decent amount in endgame, and the next Thor film, by all accounts, will heavily feature Natalie Portman.

The scene in Endgame that references Thor 2 might be the best scene in the movie though. It also reminds me of a great Twilight Zone episode called Walking Distance.

StealThisSheen posted...

Oh. Infinity War ends with the snap. The blip happens during Endgame.

So the snap and blip are different things? Is that confirmed. Im pretty sure the snap is never called that in the movies and was just more of a fan made term until Far From Home mentioned a blip. I guess the snap being them leaving and the blip the return makes sense though

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I think the Blip is used by the general populace to refer to the whole period between the snap and the return.

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RikkuAlmighty posted...

now the only MCU movie i haven't seen is thor 2.

is there any value in watching thor 2

It's better than Iron Man 2.

it is definitely not better than iron man 2

both are bad but thor 2 is definitely a little more bad

at least mickey rourke with a dumb accent and sam rockwell mugging for the camera is more entertaining than malekith

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ZenOfThunder posted...

it is definitely not better than iron man 2

both are bad but thor 2 is definitely a little more bad

at least mickey rourke with a dumb accent and sam rockwell mugging for the camera is more entertaining than malekith

Don't get me wrong, Malekith is ass. But Thor 2 at least has the bits with Loki in the middle that are pretty solid.

I can't remember anything worthwhile about IM2. It's a glorified Avengers trailer.

Top Tier

Avengers Endgame
Cap. America Winter Soldier

High Tier

Avengers: Infinity War
Cap America Civil War
Avengers 1
Guardians 1
Spiderman 2
Black Panther
Iron Man 3

Mid Tier

Thor Ragnarok
Cap America 1
Iron Man 1
Doctor Strange
Spiderman
Ant Man

Low Tier

Avengers Age of Ultron
Guardians 2
Captain Marvel
Ant-Man and the Wasp
Hulk
Thor 1

Bottom Tier

Thor Dark World
Iron Man 2

Spiderman mid tier is an abomination

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ChichiriMuyo posted...

As for the Ant Man physics - they weren't consistent with them in the first movie either. At all. Hank Pym carried a 45 ton tank on his keychain

I was going to mention this. They couldn't even make it to the end of the movie where they explained things retained their mass.

But looking into it a bit it seems in the comics they go back and forth on this issue as well and the closest thing they have to an explanation is that when things shrink or expand there is a transference of mass via the quantum realm so mass can either be stored in or pulled from the quantum realm as the situation requires... Or something :shrug:

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Yeah if they maintained their mass, then lugging the lab around would be impossible.

Movie doesn't even try to make sense. I find Dr. Strange style "Magic" Way more immersive because at least then I can go with it not supposing to make sense. I find Ant Mans inconsistent "science" incredibly immersion breaking.

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It's a good comic book movie.

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If Ant Man himself retains his mass, how is he able to ride around on ordinary ants???

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