Current Events > Does the progressive hive mind like or dislike Elon Musk?

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scar the 1 02/24/21 4:34:58 AM #255:	CableZL posted... I'm not sure why you keep harping on the fact that they haven't invented things. Having invented something isn't a requirement for something to be considered innovative. As the definition states, to innovate is to make changes in something already established. So there clearly isn't a requirement to have invented a technology in order to be innovative with said technology. Innovation is something that pretty much is reliant on development of new methods and new ideas. Nobody is claiming Elon Musk is a sole innovator at anything in this regard. The companies as a whole, however, are innovative. Tesla is innovative with: * Battery technology (range, efficiency) * Software updates (new features, adding efficiency, bug fixes) SpaceX being able to re-use rocket boosters is rarely feasible right now. The method is brand new. It will be more feasible in the future once its reliability is improved. Starlink IS unique. No other satellite internet company is giving anyone speeds like Starlink has right now. I just hope they can keep offering these speeds once they have a lot more users on the network. Yeah, ok. I guess I'm taking issue with the whole "innovative" thing because I don't think it's always so innovative? Again, Tesla has the most merit here. They were first on the market with the lithium battery. At the same time, I have a hard time calling software updates innovative, or for that matter, incremental improvements to a technology that right now is the standard. Like yeah, it was an innovation to produce cars with lithium batteries. Is it an innovation to have slightly better performance than your competitors? I don't see SpaceX investing in VTVL and reusing boosters as innovative, because again, this isn't new! What's "innovative" is that they're spending more money on it. And seriuosly, is Starlink innovative because right now the speeds look promising? They're not the only ones to think of an internet megaconstellation, but they're one of the few actors with enough economic muscle to do it. Is the innovation here, again, spending money? But what irks me about uncritically calling Musk's companies innovative (and maybe this is tied to the cult of Musk's persona? People are definitely claiming that Musk is an innovator) is that there's this idea that they are way more innovative than they are, and the related thought that you espoused, that they're pushing society forward. This is what I originally took issue with in your post. In fact, before we got bogged down in technicalities of how innovative each technical feat is, what I said was that "What he's doing isn't innovation", which I stand by. Innovation goes on in his companies, I'll concede that. Elon is not doing it. What I went on to say was reservations I had against your claim that he's pushing our society forward with his companies. This is why the mining of lithium is relevant (which IIRC you agreed with?), and it's why I'm also very skeptical of things like SpaceX and Starlink. How innovative his companies are is part of that, because it's part of how he justifies himself, and how he markets himself. What's often implied is that "without Musk's companies, these particular innovations wouldn't happen". I don't think that's true at all. Like I've been saying throughout, most of the tech is already there. A lot of it is incremental improvement, which is done all the time. I feel like I'm rambling between two points: "pushing society forward" and "innovation". Sorry if I'm not making a lot of sense. To try and condense my point I think the tl;dr is that IMO innovation is often overblown (it's in the interest of companies to exaggerate it), and IMO Tesla, SpaceX and Starlink aren't pushing society forward, and Musk's involvement in them definitely isn't. --- Stop being so aggressively argumentative for no reason. - UnfairRepresent <cite>scar the 1 posted [p:951011876] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>I'm not sure why you keep harping on the fact that they haven't invented things. Having invented something isn't a requirement for something to be considered innovative. As the definition states, to innovate is to make changes in something already established. So there clearly isn't a requirement to have invented a technology in order to be innovative with said technology. Innovation is something that pretty much is reliant on development of new methods and new ideas. Nobody is claiming Elon Musk is a sole innovator at anything in this regard. The companies as a whole, however, are innovative. Tesla is innovative with: * Battery technology (range, efficiency) * Software updates (new features, adding efficiency, bug fixes) SpaceX being able to re-use rocket boosters is rarely feasible right now. The method is brand new. It will be more feasible in the future once its reliability is improved. Starlink IS unique. No other satellite internet company is giving anyone speeds like Starlink has right now. I just hope they can keep offering these speeds once they have a lot more users on the network.</quote>Yeah, ok. I guess I'm taking issue with the whole "innovative" thing because I don't think it's always so innovative? Again, Tesla has the most merit here. They were first on the market with the lithium battery. At the same time, I have a hard time calling software updates innovative, or for that matter, incremental improvements to a technology that right now is the standard. Like yeah, it was an innovation to produce cars with lithium batteries. Is it an innovation to have slightly better performance than your competitors? I don't see SpaceX investing in VTVL and reusing boosters as innovative, because again, this isn't new! What's "innovative" is that they're spending more money on it. And seriuosly, is Starlink innovative because right now the speeds look promising? They're not the only ones to think of an internet megaconstellation, but they're one of the few actors with enough economic muscle to do it. Is the innovation here, again, spending money? But what irks me about uncritically calling Musk's companies innovative (and maybe this is tied to the cult of Musk's persona? People are definitely claiming that Musk is an innovator) is that there's this idea that they are way more innovative than they are, and the related thought that you espoused, that they're pushing society forward. This is what I originally took issue with in your post. In fact, before we got bogged down in technicalities of how innovative each technical feat is, what I said was that "What he's doing isn't innovation", which I stand by. Innovation goes on in his companies, I'll concede that. Elon is not doing it. What I went on to say was reservations I had against your claim that he's pushing our society forward with his companies. This is why the mining of lithium is relevant (which IIRC you agreed with?), and it's why I'm also very skeptical of things like SpaceX and Starlink. How innovative his companies are is part of that, because it's part of how he justifies himself, and how he markets himself. What's often implied is that "without Musk's companies, these particular innovations wouldn't happen". I don't think that's true at all. Like I've been saying throughout, most of the tech is already there. A lot of it is incremental improvement, which is done all the time. I feel like I'm rambling between two points: "pushing society forward" and "innovation". Sorry if I'm not making a lot of sense. To try and condense my point I think the tl;dr is that IMO innovation is often overblown (it's in the interest of companies to exaggerate it), and IMO Tesla, SpaceX and Starlink aren't pushing society forward, and Musk's involvement in them definitely isn't. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 4:43:22 AM #256:	scar the 1 posted... Yeah, ok. I guess I'm taking issue with the whole "innovative" thing because I don't think it's always so innovative? Again, Tesla has the most merit here. They were first on the market with the lithium battery. At the same time, I have a hard time calling software updates innovative, or for that matter, incremental improvements to a technology that right now is the standard. Like yeah, it was an innovation to produce cars with lithium batteries. Is it an innovation to have slightly better performance than your competitors? I don't see SpaceX investing in VTVL and reusing boosters as innovative, because again, this isn't new! What's "innovative" is that they're spending more money on it. And seriuosly, is Starlink innovative because right now the speeds look promising? They're not the only ones to think of an internet megaconstellation, but they're one of the few actors with enough economic muscle to do it. Is the innovation here, again, spending money? But what irks me about uncritically calling Musk's companies innovative (and maybe this is tied to the cult of Musk's persona? People are definitely claiming that Musk is an innovator) is that there's this idea that they are way more innovative than they are, and the related thought that you espoused, that they're pushing society forward. This is what I originally took issue with in your post. In fact, before we got bogged down in technicalities of how innovative each technical feat is, what I said was that "What he's doing isn't innovation", which I stand by. Innovation goes on in his companies, I'll concede that. Elon is not doing it. What I went on to say was reservations I had against your claim that he's pushing our society forward with his companies. This is why the mining of lithium is relevant (which IIRC you agreed with?), and it's why I'm also very skeptical of things like SpaceX and Starlink. How innovative his companies are is part of that, because it's part of how he justifies himself, and how he markets himself. What's often implied is that "without Musk's companies, these particular innovations wouldn't happen". I don't think that's true at all. Like I've been saying throughout, most of the tech is already there. A lot of it is incremental improvement, which is done all the time. I feel like I'm rambling between two points: "pushing society forward" and "innovation". Sorry if I'm not making a lot of sense. To try and condense my point I think the tl;dr is that IMO innovation is often overblown (it's in the interest of companies to exaggerate it), and IMO Tesla, SpaceX and Starlink aren't pushing society forward, and Musk's involvement in them definitely isn't. The software updates are innovative because: They add new features They sometimes release updates to increase efficiency Bug fixes All OTA What other car company is doing this? Innovation is to make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products. Tesla is doing that in multiple ways. SpaceX is innovative because nobody else has the capability to reuse rocket boosters, let alone land rocket boosters that have been used in a controlled fashion. That is making a change in something established by introducing new methods or ideas. Elon Musk IS an innovator. He just isn't the sole innovator and no one ever claimed he was. He obviously has teams of developers in these companies that are working on this stuff. That doesn't mean the companies aren't innovative, nor does that mean Elon Musk is not an innovator. Starlink is innovative not because the speeds "look promising." They actually have users on the network getting much better speeds and latency than some home users get on their wired connections. Because of Starlink, Satellite is now better than many DSL connections, which is unheard of before Starlink came around. At my apartment complex, the best speeds AT&T can offer me is 18 Mbps down and 2 Mbps up. I would get MUCH better than that with Starlink. And Starlink is a fucking satellite connection. The innovation here is taking an existing technology (satellite internet) and offering much better speeds and latency than anyone ever thought satellite internet could possibly offer. Again, making a change in something established by introducing new methods and/or ideas. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951011952] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>scar the 1 posted... </cite> <quote>Yeah, ok. I guess I'm taking issue with the whole "innovative" thing because I don't think it's always so innovative? Again, Tesla has the most merit here. They were first on the market with the lithium battery. At the same time, I have a hard time calling software updates innovative, or for that matter, incremental improvements to a technology that right now is the standard. Like yeah, it was an innovation to produce cars with lithium batteries. Is it an innovation to have slightly better performance than your competitors? I don't see SpaceX investing in VTVL and reusing boosters as innovative, because again, this isn't new! What's "innovative" is that they're spending more money on it. And seriuosly, is Starlink innovative because right now the speeds look promising? They're not the only ones to think of an internet megaconstellation, but they're one of the few actors with enough economic muscle to do it. Is the innovation here, again, spending money? But what irks me about uncritically calling Musk's companies innovative (and maybe this is tied to the cult of Musk's persona? People are definitely claiming that Musk is an innovator) is that there's this idea that they are way more innovative than they are, and the related thought that you espoused, that they're pushing society forward. This is what I originally took issue with in your post. In fact, before we got bogged down in technicalities of how innovative each technical feat is, what I said was that "What he's doing isn't innovation", which I stand by. Innovation goes on in his companies, I'll concede that. Elon is not doing it. What I went on to say was reservations I had against your claim that he's pushing our society forward with his companies. This is why the mining of lithium is relevant (which IIRC you agreed with?), and it's why I'm also very skeptical of things like SpaceX and Starlink. How innovative his companies are is part of that, because it's part of how he justifies himself, and how he markets himself. What's often implied is that "without Musk's companies, these particular innovations wouldn't happen". I don't think that's true at all. Like I've been saying throughout, most of the tech is already there. A lot of it is incremental improvement, which is done all the time. I feel like I'm rambling between two points: "pushing society forward" and "innovation". Sorry if I'm not making a lot of sense. To try and condense my point I think the tl;dr is that IMO innovation is often overblown (it's in the interest of companies to exaggerate it), and IMO Tesla, SpaceX and Starlink aren't pushing society forward, and Musk's involvement in them definitely isn't.</quote> The software updates are innovative because: They add new featuresThey sometimes release updates to increase efficiencyBug fixesAll OTA What other car company is doing this? Innovation is to make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products. Tesla is doing that in multiple ways. SpaceX is innovative because nobody else has the capability to reuse rocket boosters, let alone land rocket boosters that have been used in a controlled fashion. That is making a change in something established by introducing new methods or ideas. Elon Musk IS an innovator. He just isn't the sole innovator and no one ever claimed he was. He obviously has teams of developers in these companies that are working on this stuff. That doesn't mean the companies aren't innovative, nor does that mean Elon Musk is not an innovator. Starlink is innovative not because the speeds "look promising." They actually have users on the network getting much better speeds and latency than some home users get on their wired connections. Because of Starlink, Satellite is now better than many DSL connections, which is unheard of before Starlink came around. At my apartment complex, the best speeds AT&T can offer me is 18 Mbps down and 2 Mbps up. I would get MUCH better than that with Starlink. And Starlink is a fucking satellite connection. The innovation here is taking an existing technology (satellite internet) and offering much better speeds and latency than anyone ever thought satellite internet could possibly offer. Again, making a change in something established by introducing new methods and/or ideas. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Funkydog 02/24/21 4:47:13 AM #257:	CableZL posted... At my apartment complex, the best speeds AT&T can offer me is 18 Mbps down and 2 Mbps up. I would get MUCH better than that with Starlink. And Starlink is a fucking satellite connection. The innovation here is taking an existing technology (satellite internet) and offering much better speeds and latency than anyone ever thought satellite internet could possibly offer. Again, making a change in something established by introducing new methods and/or ideas. That sounds more like an issue with America's utterly garbage internet monopoly system tbh. --- https://imgur.com/BGbZK <cite>Funkydog posted [p:951012003] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>At my apartment complex, the best speeds AT&T can offer me is 18 Mbps down and 2 Mbps up. I would get MUCH better than that with Starlink. And Starlink is a fucking satellite connection. The innovation here is taking an existing technology (satellite internet) and offering much better speeds and latency than anyone ever thought satellite internet could possibly offer. Again, making a change in something established by introducing new methods and/or ideas.</quote>That sounds more like an issue with America's utterly garbage internet monopoly system tbh. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Don 02/24/21 4:47:28 AM #258:	scar the 1 posted... I feel like I'm rambling between two points: "pushing society forward" and "innovation". Sorry if I'm not making a lot of sense. To try and condense my point I think the tl;dr is that IMO innovation is often overblown Kinda what I was trying to convey a few posts ago. Elon fans don't have a tempered down or realistic view of innovation. They think he is accelerating humanity forward at fucking lightspeed. So to hide behind the strict definition of "innovation" is running away from the point. The point is that Elon grossly oversells what he is actually accomplishing and he has a cult-like following that is highly concerning. --- "The soul in the darkness sins, but the real sinner is he who caused the darkness." - Victor Hugo <cite>Shadow Don posted [p:951012006] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>scar the 1 posted... </cite> <quote>I feel like I'm rambling between two points: "pushing society forward" and "innovation". Sorry if I'm not making a lot of sense. To try and condense my point I think the tl;dr is that IMO innovation is often overblown</quote> Kinda what I was trying to convey a few posts ago. Elon fans don't have a tempered down or realistic view of innovation. They think he is accelerating humanity forward at fucking lightspeed. So to hide behind the strict definition of "innovation" is running away from the point. The point is that Elon grossly oversells what he is actually accomplishing and he has a cult-like following that is highly concerning. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 4:50:42 AM #259:	Funkydog posted... That sounds more like an issue with America's utterly garbage internet monopoly system tbh. That's true, but the fact still stands that no one ever thought satellite internet would offer 50 to 150 Mbps download speeds, let alone with 20 - 40ms of latency before Starlink came around. Satellite internet was always garbage. I used to do tech support for a company that offered satellite internet. So many users would complain about it taking forever to download freaking emails or a large text file. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951012041] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Funkydog posted... </cite> <quote>That sounds more like an issue with America's utterly garbage internet monopoly system tbh.</quote> That's true, but the fact still stands that no one ever thought satellite internet would offer 50 to 150 Mbps download speeds, let alone with 20 - 40ms of latency before Starlink came around. Satellite internet was always garbage. I used to do tech support for a company that offered satellite internet. So many users would complain about it taking forever to download freaking emails or a large text file. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 4:51:56 AM #260:	Shadow Don posted... Kinda what I was trying to convey a few posts ago. Elon fans don't have a tempered down or realistic view of innovation. They think he is accelerating humanity forward at f*ing lightspeed. So to hide behind the strict definition of "innovation" is running away from the point. The point is that Elon grossly oversells what he is actually accomplishing and he has a cult-like following that is highly concerning. I'm not "hiding behind the strict definition of innovation." I'm simply talking about what innovation is, and using its definition to support the fact that Starlink, Tesla, and SpaceX are innovative. Are we really at the point where using the actual definition of a word is considered "hiding?" Wow That's an unreal level of denial. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951012052] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Shadow Don posted... </cite> <quote>Kinda what I was trying to convey a few posts ago. Elon fans don't have a tempered down or realistic view of innovation. They think he is accelerating humanity forward at f*ing lightspeed. So to hide behind the strict definition of "innovation" is running away from the point. The point is that Elon grossly oversells what he is actually accomplishing and he has a cult-like following that is highly concerning.</quote> I'm not "hiding behind the strict definition of innovation." I'm simply talking about what innovation is, and using its definition to support the fact that Starlink, Tesla, and SpaceX are innovative. Are we really at the point where using the actual definition of a word is considered "hiding?" Wow That's an unreal level of denial. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Funkydog 02/24/21 4:55:14 AM #261:	CableZL posted... That's true, but the fact still stands that no one ever thought satellite internet would offer 50 to 150 Mbps download speeds, let alone with 20 - 40ms of latency before Starlink came around. Satellite internet was always garbage. I used to do tech support for a company that offered satellite internet. So many users would complain about it taking forever to download freaking emails or a large text file. Yeah, won't deny that. --- https://imgur.com/BGbZK <cite>Funkydog posted [p:951012079] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>That's true, but the fact still stands that no one ever thought satellite internet would offer 50 to 150 Mbps download speeds, let alone with 20 - 40ms of latency before Starlink came around. Satellite internet was always garbage. I used to do tech support for a company that offered satellite internet. So many users would complain about it taking forever to download freaking emails or a large text file.</quote>Yeah, won't deny that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Don 02/24/21 4:55:53 AM #262:	CableZL posted... I'm not "hiding behind the strict definition of innovation." I'm simply talking about what innovation is, and using its definition to support the fact that Starlink, Tesla, and SpaceX are innovative. Are we really at the point where using the actual definition of a word is considered "hiding?" Wow That's an unreal level of denial. You are running away from the point. The dude ITT who thinks Elon is Tony Stark probably doesn't think Elon is "innovative" because... checks list CableZL posted... The software updates are innovative because: * They add new features * They sometimes release updates to increase efficiency * Bug fixes * All OTA They think Elon is innovative because they believe Elon is going to have us in fucking space colonies. That mentality is what is being criticized when we say "Elon isn't as innovative as you think he is." --- "The soul in the darkness sins, but the real sinner is he who caused the darkness." - Victor Hugo <cite>Shadow Don posted [p:951012088] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>I'm not "hiding behind the strict definition of innovation." I'm simply talking about what innovation is, and using its definition to support the fact that Starlink, Tesla, and SpaceX are innovative. Are we really at the point where using the actual definition of a word is considered "hiding?" Wow That's an unreal level of denial.</quote> You are running away from the point. The dude ITT who thinks Elon is Tony Stark probably doesn't think Elon is "innovative" because... checks list CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>The software updates are innovative because: * They add new features * They sometimes release updates to increase efficiency * Bug fixes * All OTA</quote> They think Elon is innovative because they believe Elon is going to have us in fucking space colonies. That mentality is what is being criticized when we say "Elon isn't as innovative as you think he is." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 4:56:54 AM #263:	Hell, I, as a network savvy person, was one of those people who said satellite internet would NEVER be a usable form of internet service beyond extremely light data usage in remote areas. Starlink has proven me wrong in that regard. I just hope the service level stands up when a bunch of users are connected. We'll see. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951012100] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Hell, I, as a network savvy person, was one of those people who said satellite internet would NEVER be a usable form of internet service beyond extremely light data usage in remote areas. Starlink has proven me wrong in that regard. I just hope the service level stands up when a bunch of users are connected. We'll see. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 5:00:54 AM #264:	Shadow Don posted... You are running away from the point. The dude ITT who thinks Elon is Tony Stark probably doesn't think Elon is "innovative" because... checks list I'm not running away from anything. Trying to say that these companies are not innovative just because Elon Musk has fanatical followers is foolish at best. Tesla is innovative based on the definition of the word innovate. Starlink is innovative based on the definition of the word innovate. SpaceX is innovative based on the definition of the word innovate. Apple is innovative based on the definition of the word innovate. Samsung is innovative based on the definition of the word innovate. It's that simple. Yes, there are people who are fanatical fans of Tesla, Starlink, SpaceX, Apple, Samsung, etc. and their statements and opinions may be venturing into the unhinged territory. Yes, Elon Musk oversells things and has to back off at times when confronted with reality. None of that changes the fact that the companies are innovative, though. Trying to say that they aren't innovative just because some people have fanatical opinions is nonsense. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951012141] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Shadow Don posted... </cite> <quote>You are running away from the point. The dude ITT who thinks Elon is Tony Stark probably doesn't think Elon is "innovative" because... checks list</quote> I'm not running away from anything. Trying to say that these companies are not innovative just because Elon Musk has fanatical followers is foolish at best. Tesla is innovative based on the definition of the word innovate. Starlink is innovative based on the definition of the word innovate. SpaceX is innovative based on the definition of the word innovate. Apple is innovative based on the definition of the word innovate. Samsung is innovative based on the definition of the word innovate. It's that simple. Yes, there are people who are fanatical fans of Tesla, Starlink, SpaceX, Apple, Samsung, etc. and their statements and opinions may be venturing into the unhinged territory. Yes, Elon Musk oversells things and has to back off at times when confronted with reality. None of that changes the fact that the companies are innovative, though. Trying to say that they aren't innovative just because some people have fanatical opinions is nonsense. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Don 02/24/21 5:05:12 AM #265:	CableZL posted... Yes, there are people who are fanatical fans of Tesla, Starlink, SpaceX, Apple, Samsung, etc. and their statements and opinions may be venturing into the unhinged territory. Yes, Elon Musk oversells things and has to back off at times when confronted with reality. This is literally ALL anyone was trying to say and you had a melty because of it. You actually reinforced the point being made lmfao. --- "The soul in the darkness sins, but the real sinner is he who caused the darkness." - Victor Hugo <cite>Shadow Don posted [p:951012185] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>Yes, there are people who are fanatical fans of Tesla, Starlink, SpaceX, Apple, Samsung, etc. and their statements and opinions may be venturing into the unhinged territory. Yes, Elon Musk oversells things and has to back off at times when confronted with reality.</quote> This is literally ALL anyone was trying to say and you had a melty because of it. You actually reinforced the point being made lmfao. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 5:05:55 AM #266:	Shadow Don posted... This is literally ALL anyone was trying to say and you had a melty because of it. You actually reinforced the point being made lmfao. No, that's not literally all anyone was trying to say. scar the 1 was literally saying those companies are NOT innovative, which is false. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951012192] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Shadow Don posted... </cite> <quote>This is literally ALL anyone was trying to say and you had a melty because of it. You actually reinforced the point being made lmfao.</quote> No, that's not literally all anyone was trying to say. scar the 1 was literally saying those companies are NOT innovative, which is false. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Don 02/24/21 5:07:20 AM #267:	CableZL posted... No, that's not literally all anyone was trying to say. scar the 1 was literally saying those companies are NOT innovative, which is false. Right. As you pointed out they do software updates that add new features and fix bugs. I'm really owned. --- "The soul in the darkness sins, but the real sinner is he who caused the darkness." - Victor Hugo <cite>Shadow Don posted [p:951012219] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>No, that's not literally all anyone was trying to say. scar the 1 was literally saying those companies are NOT innovative, which is false.</quote> Right. As you pointed out they do software updates that add new features and fix bugs. I'm really owned. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 5:09:22 AM #268:	Shadow Don posted... Right. As you pointed out they do software updates that add new features and fix bugs. I'm really owned. You said "literally all anyone was trying to say is that people have fanatical opinions of those companies." That's false. Scar the 1 was arguing that SpaceX, Tesla, and Starlink are not innovative. That's false. I've literally listed multiple examples supporting the fact that these companies are innovative based on the actual definition of the word, but you can continue sticking your head in the sand and ignore them if you want. That's on you. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951012247] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Shadow Don posted... </cite> <quote>Right. As you pointed out they do software updates that add new features and fix bugs. I'm really owned.</quote> You said "literally all anyone was trying to say is that people have fanatical opinions of those companies." That's false. Scar the 1 was arguing that SpaceX, Tesla, and Starlink are not innovative. That's false. I've literally listed multiple examples supporting the fact that these companies are innovative based on the actual definition of the word, but you can continue sticking your head in the sand and ignore them if you want. That's on you. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 5:12:21 AM #269:	Because again, you think using the actual definition of a word is somehow hiding or running away, when that's literally how we determine the meaning and proper usage of a word. Sure. Some fantasy world that is. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951012281] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Because again, you think using the actual definition of a word is somehow hiding or running away, when that's literally how we determine the meaning and proper usage of a word. Sure. Some fantasy world that is. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scar the 1 02/24/21 5:17:39 AM #270:	CableZL posted... The software updates are innovative because: They add new features They sometimes release updates to increase efficiency Bug fixes All OTA What other car company is doing this? Innovation is to make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products. Tesla is doing that in multiple ways. SpaceX is innovative because nobody else has the capability to reuse rocket boosters, let alone land rocket boosters that have been used in a controlled fashion. That is making a change in something established by introducing new methods or ideas. Elon Musk IS an innovator. He just isn't the sole innovator and no one ever claimed he was. He obviously has teams of developers in these companies that are working on this stuff. That doesn't mean the companies aren't innovative, nor does that mean Elon Musk is not an innovator. Starlink is innovative not because the speeds "look promising." They actually have users on the network getting much better speeds and latency than some home users get on their wired connections. Because of Starlink, Satellite is now better than many DSL connections, which is unheard of before Starlink came around. At my apartment complex, the best speeds AT&T can offer me is 18 Mbps down and 2 Mbps up. I would get MUCH better than that with Starlink. And Starlink is a fucking satellite connection. The innovation here is taking an existing technology (satellite internet) and offering much better speeds and latency than anyone ever thought satellite internet could possibly offer. Again, making a change in something established by introducing new methods and/or ideas. OK, again, with Tesla I will happily concede that they're doing a bunch of innovation. I still don't think that software updates or slightly better battery performance are especially good examples of innovations, but I can see where you're coming from with some other examples you've brought up. Not that I really think they're revolutionizing the auto industry in a way that pushes society forward though. For SpaceX, again, the tech is already there! Are you agreeing then that the innovation is actually just having enough money to implement it? Because at this point that's what it is. More importantly to my point: SpaceX is massively funded by the government. The idea that Musk is to thank for this is not very accurate. The space industry has been highly privatized (following years of intense lobbying). This means essentially that what you call innovation here (implementing existing tech on a large, operational scale), is given to private actors. It's not that NASA can't do this themselves, it's that the whole industry is set up this way: tech is developed with public resources, then implemented privately and contracted by the government. To justify this, there's a myth of innovators like Musk that needs to be maintained. This is the same with all tech! R&D (high risk) is publicly financed, often at universities or institutes. Then when the technologies are mature enough, innovators step in and claim ownership to make money from it. This is exactly what Musk is doing with SpaceX, and it's why I don't think he is an innovator, and it's why I don't think his companies push society forward. This is my core point! The persona of him as an innovator is a deliberate strategy to justify him profiting off of technology developed with public funds. And I suppose we can keep the Starlink thread going as well. I took your statement to mean the speeds "look promising" because you mentioned something about "I just hope they can maintain the speeds in the future". I agree with Funkydog's comment here, your being impressed that Starlink is performing better than the shitshow that is American wired internet isn't really saying much. I'm still skeptical that it's very innovative since several other actors have been planning and investigating the same thing for a while now. And I think it's very far from clearly pushing society forward that private actors get to congest LEO with competing megaconstellations because they want to collect your data before anyone else does. So to reiterate; It's not necessary to discuss in minute detail whether SpaceX being the first to do VTVL on a rocket that was in orbit is innovative or not (for the record I don't think it's very innovative). That's beside my point. My point is that Musk is not an innovator, he's a profiteer, and his companies don't push society forward. Of course, that depends on what we mean by "forward", and to preempt a ridiculous semantic discussion I'll just say that I think his companies are bad for society, and to me "pushing society forward" should mean "it's good for society", not "forward off a cliff". --- Stop being so aggressively argumentative for no reason. - UnfairRepresent <cite>scar the 1 posted [p:951012349] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>CableZL posted... </cite> <quote> The software updates are innovative because: They add new features They sometimes release updates to increase efficiency Bug fixes All OTA What other car company is doing this? Innovation is to make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products. Tesla is doing that in multiple ways. SpaceX is innovative because nobody else has the capability to reuse rocket boosters, let alone land rocket boosters that have been used in a controlled fashion. That is making a change in something established by introducing new methods or ideas. Elon Musk IS an innovator. He just isn't the sole innovator and no one ever claimed he was. He obviously has teams of developers in these companies that are working on this stuff. That doesn't mean the companies aren't innovative, nor does that mean Elon Musk is not an innovator. Starlink is innovative not because the speeds "look promising." They actually have users on the network getting much better speeds and latency than some home users get on their wired connections. Because of Starlink, Satellite is now better than many DSL connections, which is unheard of before Starlink came around. At my apartment complex, the best speeds AT&T can offer me is 18 Mbps down and 2 Mbps up. I would get MUCH better than that with Starlink. And Starlink is a fucking satellite connection. The innovation here is taking an existing technology (satellite internet) and offering much better speeds and latency than anyone ever thought satellite internet could possibly offer. Again, making a change in something established by introducing new methods and/or ideas.</quote>OK, again, with Tesla I will happily concede that they're doing a bunch of innovation. I still don't think that software updates or slightly better battery performance are especially good examples of innovations, but I can see where you're coming from with some other examples you've brought up. Not that I really think they're revolutionizing the auto industry in a way that pushes society forward though. For SpaceX, again, the tech is already there! Are you agreeing then that the innovation is actually just having enough money to implement it? Because at this point that's what it is. More importantly to my point: SpaceX is massively funded by the government. The idea that Musk is to thank for this is not very accurate. The space industry has been highly privatized (following years of intense lobbying). This means essentially that what you call innovation here (implementing existing tech on a large, operational scale), is given to private actors. It's not that NASA can't do this themselves, it's that the whole industry is set up this way: tech is developed with public resources, then implemented privately and contracted by the government. To justify this, there's a myth of innovators like Musk that needs to be maintained. This is the same with all tech! R&D (high risk) is publicly financed, often at universities or institutes. Then when the technologies are mature enough, innovators step in and claim ownership to make money from it. This is exactly what Musk is doing with SpaceX, and it's why I don't think he is an innovator, and it's why I don't think his companies push society forward. This is my core point! The persona of him as an innovator is a deliberate strategy to justify him profiting off of technology developed with public funds. And I suppose we can keep the Starlink thread going as well. I took your statement to mean the speeds "look promising" because you mentioned something about "I just hope they can maintain the speeds in the future". I agree with Funkydog's comment here, your being impressed that Starlink is performing better than the shitshow that is American wired internet isn't really saying much. I'm still skeptical that it's very innovative since several other actors have been planning and investigating the same thing for a while now. And I think it's very far from clearly pushing society forward that private actors get to congest LEO with competing megaconstellations because they want to collect your data before anyone else does. So to reiterate; It's not necessary to discuss in minute detail whether SpaceX being the first to do VTVL on a rocket that was in orbit is innovative or not (for the record I don't think it's very innovative). That's beside my point. My point is that Musk is not an innovator, he's a profiteer, and his companies don't push society forward. Of course, that depends on what we mean by "forward", and to preempt a ridiculous semantic discussion I'll just say that I think his companies are bad for society, and to me "pushing society forward" should mean "it's good for society", not "forward off a cliff". </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Don 02/24/21 5:24:32 AM #271:	Scar clarified the point. I'm trying to clarify it as well. You seem to be ignoring that for some reason. scar the 1 posted... But what irks me about uncritically calling Musk's companies innovative (and maybe this is tied to the cult of Musk's persona? People are definitely claiming that Musk is an innovator) is that there's this idea that they are way more innovative than they are, and the related thought that you espoused, that they're pushing society forward. This is what I originally took issue with in your post. In fact, before we got bogged down in technicalities of how innovative each technical feat is, what I said was that "What he's doing isn't innovation", which I stand by. Innovation goes on in his companies, I'll concede that. Elon is not doing it. What I went on to say was reservations I had against your claim that he's pushing our society forward with his companies. What's often implied is that "without Musk's companies, these particular innovations wouldn't happen". I don't think that's true at all. Like I've been saying throughout, most of the tech is already there. A lot of it is incremental improvement, which is done all the time. The thing about Elon that I find alarming is that he overhypes what his companies are doing and then his cult following eats it up without questioning it. THAT is what is being criticized. "Well technically Tesla does software updates so that literally fits the definition of innovation" That doesn't at all address the concerns being levied towards Elon. --- "The soul in the darkness sins, but the real sinner is he who caused the darkness." - Victor Hugo <cite>Shadow Don posted [p:951012409] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Scar clarified the point. I'm trying to clarify it as well. You seem to be ignoring that for some reason. scar the 1 posted... </cite> <quote>But what irks me about uncritically calling Musk's companies innovative (and maybe this is tied to the cult of Musk's persona? People are definitely claiming that Musk is an innovator) is that there's this idea that they are way more innovative than they are, and the related thought that you espoused, that they're pushing society forward. This is what I originally took issue with in your post. In fact, before we got bogged down in technicalities of how innovative each technical feat is, what I said was that "What he's doing isn't innovation", which I stand by. Innovation goes on in his companies, I'll concede that. Elon is not doing it. What I went on to say was reservations I had against your claim that he's pushing our society forward with his companies. What's often implied is that "without Musk's companies, these particular innovations wouldn't happen". I don't think that's true at all. Like I've been saying throughout, most of the tech is already there. A lot of it is incremental improvement, which is done all the time.</quote> The thing about Elon that I find alarming is that he overhypes what his companies are doing and then his cult following eats it up without questioning it. THAT is what is being criticized. "Well technically Tesla does software updates so that literally fits the definition of innovation" That doesn't at all address the concerns being levied towards Elon. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
2Pacavelli 02/24/21 5:28:22 AM #272:	The Tesla Cars are without a doubt innovative. No other mass produced commercial class of fully electric vehicles have been able to be economically viable or feasible until Tesla. Now the whole market is trying to play catch up and add features to match what Tesla has done <cite>2Pacavelli posted [p:951012446] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>The Tesla Cars are without a doubt innovative. No other mass produced commercial class of fully electric vehicles have been able to be economically viable or feasible until Tesla. Now the whole market is trying to play catch up and add features to match what Tesla has done </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 5:34:06 AM #273:	scar the 1 posted... OK, again, with Tesla I will happily concede that they're doing a bunch of innovation. I still don't think that software updates or slightly better battery performance are especially good examples of innovations, but I can see where you're coming from with some other examples you've brought up. Not that I really think they're revolutionizing the auto industry in a way that pushes society forward though. For SpaceX, again, the tech is already there! Are you agreeing then that the innovation is actually just having enough money to implement it? Because at this point that's what it is. More importantly to my point: SpaceX is massively funded by the government. The idea that Musk is to thank for this is not very accurate. The space industry has been highly privatized (following years of intense lobbying). This means essentially that what you call innovation here (implementing existing tech on a large, operational scale), is given to private actors. It's not that NASA can't do this themselves, it's that the whole industry is set up this way: tech is developed with public resources, then implemented privately and contracted by the government. To justify this, there's a myth of innovators like Musk that needs to be maintained. This is the same with all tech! R&D (high risk) is publicly financed, often at universities or institutes. Then when the technologies are mature enough, innovators step in and claim ownership to make money from it. This is exactly what Musk is doing with SpaceX, and it's why I don't think he is an innovator, and it's why I don't think his companies push society forward. This is my core point! The persona of him as an innovator is a deliberate strategy to justify him profiting off of technology developed with public funds. And I suppose we can keep the Starlink thread going as well. I took your statement to mean the speeds "look promising" because you mentioned something about "I just hope they can maintain the speeds in the future". I agree with Funkydog's comment here, your being impressed that Starlink is performing better than the s*show that is American wired internet isn't really saying much. I'm still skeptical that it's very innovative since several other actors have been planning and investigating the same thing for a while now. And I think it's very far from clearly pushing society forward that private actors get to congest LEO with competing megaconstellations because they want to collect your data before anyone else does. So to reiterate; It's not necessary to discuss in minute detail whether SpaceX being the first to do VTVL on a rocket that was in orbit is innovative or not (for the record I don't think it's very innovative). That's beside my point. My point is that Musk is not an innovator, he's a profiteer, and his companies don't push society forward. Of course, that depends on what we mean by "forward", and to preempt a ridiculous semantic discussion I'll just say that I think his companies are bad for society, and to me "pushing society forward" should mean "it's good for society", not "forward off a cliff". Tesla Automatic collision avoidance technology is something that pushes society forward. Autonomous driving is something that pushes society forward. And again, in regard to innovation, it doesn't matter if the technology is already established. Using it with new methods and ideas to actually implement it and get it to work is innovative. Therefore, SpaceX is innovative. And again Starlink has actual customers getting 50 - 150 Mbps down with 20 - 40ms latency. This was never thought to be possible with satellite internet until Starlink came around. Making satellite internet a viable form of internet access absolutely pushes society forward. There are a lot of people who live in remote areas who have absolutely no options for internet access other than shitty satellite service. People living in mountains. People living in remote areas where no fiber, coax, or copper lines exist for wired internet access often have to rely on LTE service that is unreliable at best. Pollard, AL is a perfect example of this. My grandfather built a house in Pollad, AL on land that my family still owns. When you go there, you are damn near off the grid. Verizon and companies that use Verizon's towers are the only ways to get a somewhat OK data connection unless you want to pay exorbitant fees for satellite internet access, which again, sucks ass. Allowing people who live in remote areas to take advantage of the internet access that we city folks take for granted absolutely pushes society forward. Society moving from dial-up to Cable/DSL moved society forward. Why? Higher bandwidth allowed for applications like streaming video to exist. You can pretty much learn how to do ANYTHING with streaming video these days. You don't have to rely on what you parents know or encyclopedias that are decades old, nor do you have to go to a library to get on the internet. You can do so right from your home. This was not possible with dial-up, and is currently not possible for people who live in areas where they can't get high speed internet. Society moving from Cable/DSL to fiber internet moved society forward. Fiber internet is not only much faster than cable/DSL, it encouraged cable/DSL providers to improve their infrastructure in attempt to compete with the high synchronous speeds that fiber internet offers. Example: Google Fiber. Before Google Fiber was announced as coming to Austin, TX, the major providers (Spectrum and AT&T) had max speeds of around 50 Mbps down. Literally the day after Google Fiber was announced for Austin, TX, AT&T said they would "beat Google to the gigabit punch" and offer their own Gigabit service. Spectrum started increasing speeds for customers FOR FREE. Spectrum now has a 940 Mbps down / 35 Mbps up package that never would have existed if it weren't for Google Fiber coming into existence. Google Fiber also encouraged multiple cities to start their own municipal broadband infrastructures because the incumbent ISPs wouldn't offer service to compete with 1 Gbps down/up in their areas. So to say that giving people who have no access to high speed internet the option of having a 50 - 150 Mbps down with 20 - 40ms latency high speed internet option DOESN'T move society forward is plainly nonsense. With Starlink (assuming the infrastructure holds up with a lot more customers on the network), people who live in those remote areas no longer have to live like it's the late 80s and early 90s when it comes to access to information. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951012510] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>scar the 1 posted... </cite> <quote>OK, again, with Tesla I will happily concede that they're doing a bunch of innovation. I still don't think that software updates or slightly better battery performance are especially good examples of innovations, but I can see where you're coming from with some other examples you've brought up. Not that I really think they're revolutionizing the auto industry in a way that pushes society forward though. For SpaceX, again, the tech is already there! Are you agreeing then that the innovation is actually just having enough money to implement it? Because at this point that's what it is. More importantly to my point: SpaceX is massively funded by the government. The idea that Musk is to thank for this is not very accurate. The space industry has been highly privatized (following years of intense lobbying). This means essentially that what you call innovation here (implementing existing tech on a large, operational scale), is given to private actors. It's not that NASA can't do this themselves, it's that the whole industry is set up this way: tech is developed with public resources, then implemented privately and contracted by the government. To justify this, there's a myth of innovators like Musk that needs to be maintained. This is the same with all tech! R&D (high risk) is publicly financed, often at universities or institutes. Then when the technologies are mature enough, innovators step in and claim ownership to make money from it. This is exactly what Musk is doing with SpaceX, and it's why I don't think he is an innovator, and it's why I don't think his companies push society forward. This is my core point! The persona of him as an innovator is a deliberate strategy to justify him profiting off of technology developed with public funds. And I suppose we can keep the Starlink thread going as well. I took your statement to mean the speeds "look promising" because you mentioned something about "I just hope they can maintain the speeds in the future". I agree with Funkydog's comment here, your being impressed that Starlink is performing better than the s*show that is American wired internet isn't really saying much. I'm still skeptical that it's very innovative since several other actors have been planning and investigating the same thing for a while now. And I think it's very far from clearly pushing society forward that private actors get to congest LEO with competing megaconstellations because they want to collect your data before anyone else does. So to reiterate; It's not necessary to discuss in minute detail whether SpaceX being the first to do VTVL on a rocket that was in orbit is innovative or not (for the record I don't think it's very innovative). That's beside my point. My point is that Musk is not an innovator, he's a profiteer, and his companies don't push society forward. Of course, that depends on what we mean by "forward", and to preempt a ridiculous semantic discussion I'll just say that I think his companies are bad for society, and to me "pushing society forward" should mean "it's good for society", not "forward off a cliff".</quote> Tesla Automatic collision avoidance technology is something that pushes society forward.Autonomous driving is something that pushes society forward. And again, in regard to innovation, it doesn't matter if the technology is already established. Using it with new methods and ideas to actually implement it and get it to work is innovative. Therefore, SpaceX is innovative. And again Starlink has actual customers getting 50 - 150 Mbps down with 20 - 40ms latency. This was never thought to be possible with satellite internet until Starlink came around. Making satellite internet a viable form of internet access absolutely pushes society forward. There are a lot of people who live in remote areas who have absolutely no options for internet access other than shitty satellite service. People living in mountains. People living in remote areas where no fiber, coax, or copper lines exist for wired internet access often have to rely on LTE service that is unreliable at best. Pollard, AL is a perfect example of this. My grandfather built a house in Pollad, AL on land that my family still owns. When you go there, you are damn near off the grid. Verizon and companies that use Verizon's towers are the only ways to get a somewhat OK data connection unless you want to pay exorbitant fees for satellite internet access, which again, sucks ass. Allowing people who live in remote areas to take advantage of the internet access that we city folks take for granted absolutely pushes society forward. Society moving from dial-up to Cable/DSL moved society forward. Why? Higher bandwidth allowed for applications like streaming video to exist. You can pretty much learn how to do ANYTHING with streaming video these days. You don't have to rely on what you parents know or encyclopedias that are decades old, nor do you have to go to a library to get on the internet. You can do so right from your home. This was not possible with dial-up, and is currently not possible for people who live in areas where they can't get high speed internet.Society moving from Cable/DSL to fiber internet moved society forward. Fiber internet is not only much faster than cable/DSL, it encouraged cable/DSL providers to improve their infrastructure in attempt to compete with the high synchronous speeds that fiber internet offers.Example: Google Fiber. Before Google Fiber was announced as coming to Austin, TX, the major providers (Spectrum and AT&T) had max speeds of around 50 Mbps down. Literally the day after Google Fiber was announced for Austin, TX, AT&T said they would "beat Google to the gigabit punch" and offer their own Gigabit service. Spectrum started increasing speeds for customers FOR FREE. Spectrum now has a 940 Mbps down / 35 Mbps up package that never would have existed if it weren't for Google Fiber coming into existence.Google Fiber also encouraged multiple cities to start their own municipal broadband infrastructures because the incumbent ISPs wouldn't offer service to compete with 1 Gbps down/up in their areas. So to say that giving people who have no access to high speed internet the option of having a 50 - 150 Mbps down with 20 - 40ms latency high speed internet option DOESN'T move society forward is plainly nonsense. With Starlink (assuming the infrastructure holds up with a lot more customers on the network), people who live in those remote areas no longer have to live like it's the late 80s and early 90s when it comes to access to information. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 5:40:17 AM #274:	If you don't know how to cook something, you can just look up how to cook it on Youtube and get a 4K HD video of someone explaining exactly how to cook that thing step by step. You used to have to ask your parents or read a cookbook. If your parents didn't know, and you didn't have a cookbook, you just didn't know how to cook stuff. If you don't know how to build a computer, you can look up how to do so on Youtube and get a 4K HD video of someone explaining exactly how build a computer step by step. I literally used Youtube to build a desktop computer back in 2014 having absolutely no experience with building computers beforehand. I'm using that same computer today, which has saved me thousands of dollars over the past 7 years or so. Any pre-built computer I've ever bought stops working within ~2 years or so for one reason or another. So yes, Starlink providing quality high speed internet access to people in remote areas absolutely does move society forward. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951012571] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>If you don't know how to cook something, you can just look up how to cook it on Youtube and get a 4K HD video of someone explaining exactly how to cook that thing step by step. You used to have to ask your parents or read a cookbook. If your parents didn't know, and you didn't have a cookbook, you just didn't know how to cook stuff. If you don't know how to build a computer, you can look up how to do so on Youtube and get a 4K HD video of someone explaining exactly how build a computer step by step. I literally used Youtube to build a desktop computer back in 2014 having absolutely no experience with building computers beforehand. I'm using that same computer today, which has saved me thousands of dollars over the past 7 years or so. Any pre-built computer I've ever bought stops working within ~2 years or so for one reason or another. So yes, Starlink providing quality high speed internet access to people in remote areas absolutely does move society forward. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scar the 1 02/24/21 6:13:40 AM #275:	Ok, now we're talking :) Let's agree on what "pushing society forward" means. That's going to be the crux here. Personally, I think it has to mean that society (the whole world) is improved. If you disagree with this then everything beyond this is pointless. CableZL posted... Tesla Automatic collision avoidance technology is something that pushes society forward. Autonomous driving is something that pushes society forward. The goal of the car industry (including Tesla) is to sell as many cars as possible. That's not sustainable, for a number of reasons. Large industries are interested in autonomous driving so they can increase profits by paying less wages. This is also not sustainable. Those technologies can be useful, but I don't think that Tesla's implementations will improve society. CableZL posted... Starlink has actual customers getting 50 - 150 Mbps down with 20 - 40ms latency. This was never thought to be possible with satellite internet until Starlink came around. Making satellite internet a viable form of internet access absolutely pushes society forward. There are a lot of people who live in remote areas who have absolutely no options for internet access other than shitty satellite service. People living in mountains. People living in remote areas where no fiber, coax, or copper lines exist for wired internet access often have to rely on LTE service that is unreliable at best. Undoubtedly, better access to internet is a good thing! I don't think it's a good thing if it's provided by competing private actors at the expense of space efforts. Internet in this day and age is crucial and should be regarded as a vital infrastructure. The competition of companies like Amazon, Google, SpaceX, etc. for our personal data is not good, in my opinion. The privacy concerns are enormous. I've already talked a bit about the risks of private actors congesting LEO. Not only do they make things worse for astronomy research, they risk the quality of earth observation projects, who are crucial for e.g., weather forecasting and climate research. To be clear here; I think a megaconstellation providing global internet could be a good thing, but I don't think SpaceX (or whatever company Musk creates to own it) handling it is a good thing. I think it pushes society in the wrong direction. The other activities of SpaceX are IMO bad for society for reasons I've already explained. CableZL posted... And again, in regard to innovation, it doesn't matter if the technology is already established. Using it with new methods and ideas to actually implement it and get it to work is innovative. Therefore, SpaceX is innovative. What you call innovation I call extraction of public funds. Elon Musk isn't necessary for innovation to happen, he's a middle-man who charges extra for implementing existing technology. He can do this because he controls the resources that are needed, through ownership, through lobbying, etc. --- Stop being so aggressively argumentative for no reason. - UnfairRepresent <cite>scar the 1 posted [p:951012932] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Ok, now we're talking :) Let's agree on what "pushing society forward" means. That's going to be the crux here. Personally, I think it has to mean that society (the whole world) is improved. If you disagree with this then everything beyond this is pointless. CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>Tesla Automatic collision avoidance technology is something that pushes society forward. Autonomous driving is something that pushes society forward.</quote>The goal of the car industry (including Tesla) is to sell as many cars as possible. That's not sustainable, for a number of reasons. Large industries are interested in autonomous driving so they can increase profits by paying less wages. This is also not sustainable. Those technologies can be useful, but I don't think that Tesla's implementations will improve society. CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>Starlink has actual customers getting 50 - 150 Mbps down with 20 - 40ms latency. This was never thought to be possible with satellite internet until Starlink came around. Making satellite internet a viable form of internet access absolutely pushes society forward. There are a lot of people who live in remote areas who have absolutely no options for internet access other than shitty satellite service. People living in mountains. People living in remote areas where no fiber, coax, or copper lines exist for wired internet access often have to rely on LTE service that is unreliable at best.</quote>Undoubtedly, better access to internet is a good thing! I don't think it's a good thing if it's provided by competing private actors at the expense of space efforts. Internet in this day and age is crucial and should be regarded as a vital infrastructure. The competition of companies like Amazon, Google, SpaceX, etc. for our personal data is not good, in my opinion. The privacy concerns are enormous. I've already talked a bit about the risks of private actors congesting LEO. Not only do they make things worse for astronomy research, they risk the quality of earth observation projects, who are crucial for e.g., weather forecasting and climate research. To be clear here; I think a megaconstellation providing global internet could be a good thing, but I don't think SpaceX (or whatever company Musk creates to own it) handling it is a good thing. I think it pushes society in the wrong direction. The other activities of SpaceX are IMO bad for society for reasons I've already explained. CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>And again, in regard to innovation, it doesn't matter if the technology is already established. Using it with new methods and ideas to actually implement it and get it to work is innovative. Therefore, SpaceX is innovative.</quote>What you call innovation I call extraction of public funds. Elon Musk isn't necessary for innovation to happen, he's a middle-man who charges extra for implementing existing technology. He can do this because he controls the resources that are needed, through ownership, through lobbying, etc. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scar the 1 02/24/21 6:25:51 AM #276:	To put it simply, I think society is being pushed forward regardless of Musk, and what he's doing is profiting on it, and calling it innovation to justify it. --- Stop being so aggressively argumentative for no reason. - UnfairRepresent <cite>scar the 1 posted [p:951013064] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>To put it simply, I think society is being pushed forward regardless of Musk, and what he's doing is profiting on it, and calling it innovation to justify it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 6:28:44 AM #277:	scar the 1 posted... Ok, now we're talking :) Let's agree on what "pushing society forward" means. That's going to be the crux here. Personally, I think it has to mean that society (the whole world) is improved. If you disagree with this then everything beyond this is pointless Society is indeed improved with better access to the internet for the reasons I listed. There is definitely a legitimate concern about Starlink's effect on astronomy research. I'm more concerned about the fact that people who live in remote areas with no options for internet access still live like it's the 80s and /or early 90s when it comes to access to information. There are definitely drawbacks to internet access like ridiculous conspiracy theories spreading like wildfire. However, having internet access overall is a net positive. Access to information enables and encourages learning Gives you the ability to earn a living by working remotely Coordination of emergency services is made easier Connects people around the world like never before. It used to cost a crapload of money to talk to someone in Japan on the phone. Now you can do a Zoom meeting and talk to them in real time with high definition video. My old job had a site in China and we repeatedly took advantage of this. High speed internet also enabled VOIP services, which removed the need to pay for long distance phones calls in the US. You used to have to pay a long distance phone service provider ridiculous amounts of money for like 200 minutes to talk to someone in another state. There are countless examples about why providing people with access to high speed internet improves society as a whole. Autonomous driving becoming ubiquitous would mean way fewer accidents. It wouldn't completely eliminate accidents, but less people dying or getting injured in car wrecks benefits society as a whole. There is also the thought that if all cars were autonomous and could communicate with each other, it would remove traffic jams. I'm hoping someone figures that piece out. One of the big limitations of space missions is the massive cost. Successfully reusing rocket parts instead of having to build them 100% of the time for every mission dramatically reduced cost. This means we can do more space missions for less money, which would benefit society as a whole. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951013096] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>scar the 1 posted... </cite> <quote>Ok, now we're talking :) Let's agree on what "pushing society forward" means. That's going to be the crux here. Personally, I think it has to mean that society (the whole world) is improved. If you disagree with this then everything beyond this is pointless</quote>Society is indeed improved with better access to the internet for the reasons I listed. There is definitely a legitimate concern about Starlink's effect on astronomy research. I'm more concerned about the fact that people who live in remote areas with no options for internet access still live like it's the 80s and /or early 90s when it comes to access to information. There are definitely drawbacks to internet access like ridiculous conspiracy theories spreading like wildfire. However, having internet access overall is a net positive. Access to information enables and encourages learning Gives you the ability to earn a living by working remotelyCoordination of emergency services is made easier Connects people around the world like never before. It used to cost a crapload of money to talk to someone in Japan on the phone. Now you can do a Zoom meeting and talk to them in real time with high definition video. My old job had a site in China and we repeatedly took advantage of this. High speed internet also enabled VOIP services, which removed the need to pay for long distance phones calls in the US. You used to have to pay a long distance phone service provider ridiculous amounts of money for like 200 minutes to talk to someone in another state. There are countless examples about why providing people with access to high speed internet improves society as a whole. Autonomous driving becoming ubiquitous would mean way fewer accidents. It wouldn't completely eliminate accidents, but less people dying or getting injured in car wrecks benefits society as a whole. There is also the thought that if all cars were autonomous and could communicate with each other, it would remove traffic jams. I'm hoping someone figures that piece out. One of the big limitations of space missions is the massive cost. Successfully reusing rocket parts instead of having to build them 100% of the time for every mission dramatically reduced cost. This means we can do more space missions for less money, which would benefit society as a whole. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
steveoSEK 02/24/21 6:29:31 AM #278:	Elon is a libertarian in all honesty. The way he acts, the things he has said, the things he's done. --- https://imgur.com/32mwCo1 https://imgur.com/vPCdFcQ https://imgur.com/nOWIKDf <cite>steveoSEK posted [p:951013108] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Elon is a libertarian in all honesty. The way he acts, the things he has said, the things he's done. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 6:29:45 AM #279:	scar the 1 posted... To put it simply, I think society is being pushed forward regardless of Musk, and what he's doing is profiting on it, and calling it innovation to justify it. Yes, society is being pushed forward regardless of Elon Musk, but Elon Musk is using Tesla, SpaceX, and Starlink to help push society forward a bit more. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951013110] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>scar the 1 posted... </cite> <quote>To put it simply, I think society is being pushed forward regardless of Musk, and what he's doing is profiting on it, and calling it innovation to justify it.</quote>Yes, society is being pushed forward regardless of Elon Musk, but Elon Musk is using Tesla, SpaceX, and Starlink to help push society forward a bit more. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scar the 1 02/24/21 6:38:30 AM #280:	I'd be inclined to agree that if the choice were between astronomy research and global internet access, it's a pretty easy choice. Sadly, it's not so simple. There are several more concerns for society as a whole with a private US contractor funded by the DoD launching a megaconstellation. And the integrity issues for US citizens are also very serious. You're also right that there are merits to autonomous driving. But Tesla aren't the driving innovators in AI. That innovation will still happen without them. And finally SpaceX. Same here, the innovation to make more affordable space missions would happen regardless. The fact that they're the ones doing it is a political decision, not because they're somehow better at innovation or anything. --- Stop being so aggressively argumentative for no reason. - UnfairRepresent <cite>scar the 1 posted [p:951013237] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>I'd be inclined to agree that if the choice were between astronomy research and global internet access, it's a pretty easy choice. Sadly, it's not so simple. There are several more concerns for society as a whole with a private US contractor funded by the DoD launching a megaconstellation. And the integrity issues for US citizens are also very serious. You're also right that there are merits to autonomous driving. But Tesla aren't the driving innovators in AI. That innovation will still happen without them. And finally SpaceX. Same here, the innovation to make more affordable space missions would happen regardless. The fact that they're the ones doing it is a political decision, not because they're somehow better at innovation or anything. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ROOTFayth 02/24/21 7:59:21 AM #281:	scar the 1 posted... To put it simply, I think society is being pushed forward regardless of Musk, and what he's doing is profiting on it, and calling it innovation to justify it. thats such a stupid take though, you could take literally anyone in the world and say I think society is being pushed forward regardless of X all that says is the individual isnt doing this alone which is already obvious to everyone, Musk is still the leader and under the public eye so of course hes gonna be given credit on the successes if his companies regardless of who has done the most grunt work or discoveries <cite>ROOTFayth posted [p:951014163] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>scar the 1 posted... </cite> <quote>To put it simply, I think society is being pushed forward regardless of Musk, and what he's doing is profiting on it, and calling it innovation to justify it.</quote>thats such a stupid take though, you could take literally anyone in the world and say I think society is being pushed forward regardless of X all that says is the individual isnt doing this alone which is already obvious to everyone, Musk is still the leader and under the public eye so of course hes gonna be given credit on the successes if his companies regardless of who has done the most grunt work or discoveries </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scar the 1 02/24/21 8:36:19 AM #282:	ROOTFayth posted... thats such a stupid take though, you could take literally anyone in the world and say I think society is being pushed forward regardless of X all that says is the individual isnt doing this alone which is already obvious to everyone, Musk is still the leader and under the public eye so of course hes gonna be given credit on the successes if his companies regardless of who has done the most grunt work or discoveries Not sure it's obvious to everyone given that we have people ITT who think he's the real-life Tony Stark. But anyway my point isn't that he's just not doing all the work alone, my point is that he's actively profiteering and making the progress worse/in the wrong direction. And to cover up the fact that he's not actually needed, he crafts this myth around him about how he's a genius innovator and his companies are crucial for societal progress etc. --- Stop being so aggressively argumentative for no reason. - UnfairRepresent <cite>scar the 1 posted [p:951014745] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>ROOTFayth posted... </cite> <quote>thats such a stupid take though, you could take literally anyone in the world and say I think society is being pushed forward regardless of X all that says is the individual isnt doing this alone which is already obvious to everyone, Musk is still the leader and under the public eye so of course hes gonna be given credit on the successes if his companies regardless of who has done the most grunt work or discoveries</quote>Not sure it's obvious to everyone given that we have people ITT who think he's the real-life Tony Stark. But anyway my point isn't that he's just not doing all the work alone, my point is that he's actively profiteering and making the progress worse/in the wrong direction. And to cover up the fact that he's not actually needed, he crafts this myth around him about how he's a genius innovator and his companies are crucial for societal progress etc. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#283	Post #283 was unavailable or deleted.
pikachupwnage 02/24/21 8:46:54 AM #284:	They dislike him and rightfully so -Rich -Bad worker saftey record -Anti covid safety precautions to the point of ignoring them and trying to force workers to. -Is an a smug attention seeking fuckwad -Generally has shit takes and loves fucking markets up by saying stupid shit The only good thing he does is make electric cars which will hopefully help cut emissions....buuuut he has a lot of ethical problems with how he goes about it. --- My Mario Maker 2 Maker ID is J2K-RFD-K4G Even In sigs FOE! http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/665/328/d75.gif <cite>pikachupwnage posted [p:951014972] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>They dislike him and rightfully so -Rich -Bad worker saftey record -Anti covid safety precautions to the point of ignoring them and trying to force workers to. -Is an a smug attention seeking fuckwad -Generally has shit takes and loves fucking markets up by saying stupid shit The only good thing he does is make electric cars which will hopefully help cut emissions....buuuut he has a lot of ethical problems with how he goes about it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scar the 1 02/24/21 8:52:15 AM #285:	Elon "we will coup whoever we want. deal with it" Musk --- Stop being so aggressively argumentative for no reason. - UnfairRepresent <cite>scar the 1 posted [p:951015109] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Elon "we will coup whoever we want. deal with it" Musk </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ROOTFayth 02/24/21 9:01:42 AM #286:	I see very little valid arguments against Musk, mostly people who dislike his pretentious personality <cite>ROOTFayth posted [p:951015314] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>I see very little valid arguments against Musk, mostly people who dislike his pretentious personality </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 9:31:49 AM #287:	scar the 1 posted... Not sure it's obvious to everyone given that we have people ITT who think he's the real-life Tony Stark. But anyway my point isn't that he's just not doing all the work alone, my point is that he's actively profiteering and making the progress worse/in the wrong direction. And to cover up the fact that he's not actually needed, he crafts this myth around him about how he's a genius innovator and his companies are crucial for societal progress etc. I'm not suggesting society wouldn't move forward at all without Tesla, SpaceX, or Starlink. It's a fact, though, that these companies are indeed pushing society forward a bit. It's also a fact that satellite internet service was universally crap until Starlink came around and it their service holds up under higher loads, it will give lots of people quality internet access so didn't have an option before. Innovation with vehicles would happen without Tesla, but Tesla is still pushing boundaries that other car manufacturers didn't dare touch beforehand. Space travel innovations would happen without SpaceX, but nobody has the success SpaceX has had with reusing rocket parts, nor controlled landings of said reusable rocket parts. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951016077] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>scar the 1 posted... </cite> <quote>Not sure it's obvious to everyone given that we have people ITT who think he's the real-life Tony Stark. But anyway my point isn't that he's just not doing all the work alone, my point is that he's actively profiteering and making the progress worse/in the wrong direction. And to cover up the fact that he's not actually needed, he crafts this myth around him about how he's a genius innovator and his companies are crucial for societal progress etc.</quote>I'm not suggesting society wouldn't move forward at all without Tesla, SpaceX, or Starlink. It's a fact, though, that these companies are indeed pushing society forward a bit. It's also a fact that satellite internet service was universally crap until Starlink came around and it their service holds up under higher loads, it will give lots of people quality internet access so didn't have an option before. Innovation with vehicles would happen without Tesla, but Tesla is still pushing boundaries that other car manufacturers didn't dare touch beforehand. Space travel innovations would happen without SpaceX, but nobody has the success SpaceX has had with reusing rocket parts, nor controlled landings of said reusable rocket parts. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Samurontai 02/24/21 9:54:46 AM #288:	I like what hes doing in regards to space and e-cars but he needs to shut the fuck up a lot of the time, tbh. Hes dumb when it comes to things that arent electric vehicles and spaceships --- https://imgur.com/Scl5rwX https://imgur.com/Fjgt7Qq https://imgur.com/NidhAni https://imgur.com/IGIbQPk <cite>Samurontai posted [p:951016701] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>I like what hes doing in regards to space and e-cars but he needs to shut the fuck up a lot of the time, tbh. Hes dumb when it comes to things that arent electric vehicles and spaceships </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thighon 02/24/21 9:56:00 AM #289:	The only people I know who like Elon either have a direct stake in his company (shareholders), buy his products, or are your dime a dozen weird libertarian nerds who hate lockdown and think labor laws are superfluous also, what has he like, actually done aside from buying existing companies/properties? <cite>Thighon posted [p:951016742] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>The only people I know who like Elon either have a direct stake in his company (shareholders), buy his products, or are your dime a dozen weird libertarian nerds who hate lockdown and think labor laws are superfluous also, what has he like, actually done aside from buying existing companies/properties? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacadamianNut3 02/24/21 9:57:43 AM #290:	Thighon posted... also, what has he like, actually done? Possess money and..... --- Roll Tide & Go Irish <cite>MacadamianNut3 posted [p:951016784] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Thighon posted... </cite> <quote> also, what has he like, actually done?</quote>Possess money and..... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Don 02/24/21 10:02:42 AM #291:	shockthemonkey posted... lmao woke up and tried to read this topic, turns out Proudclad blocked me for saying cults are bad Sounds very cultish to me! --- "The soul in the darkness sins, but the real sinner is he who caused the darkness." - Victor Hugo <cite>Shadow Don posted [p:951016938] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>shockthemonkey posted... </cite> <quote>lmao woke up and tried to read this topic, turns out Proudclad blocked me for saying cults are bad</quote> Sounds very cultish to me! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 10:13:14 AM #292:	MacadamianNut3 posted... Possess money and..... ... lead companies that are pushing society forward in multiple industries --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951017249] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>MacadamianNut3 posted... </cite> <quote>Possess money and.....</quote> ... lead companies that are pushing society forward in multiple industries </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thighon 02/24/21 10:14:29 AM #293:	CableZL posted... ... lead companies that are pushing society forward in multiple industries what, specifically, has his leadership in these companies accomplished? like what is happening to change the world specifically because of him <cite>Thighon posted [p:951017276] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>... lead companies that are pushing society forward in multiple industries</quote>what, specifically, has his leadership in these companies accomplished? like what is happening to change the world specifically because of him </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shadow Don 02/24/21 10:16:41 AM #294:	Thighon posted... what, specifically, has his leadership in these companies accomplished? like what is happening to change the world specifically because of him CableZL posted... The software updates are innovative because: * They add new features * They sometimes release updates to increase efficiency * Bug fixes * All OTA What other car company is doing this? --- "The soul in the darkness sins, but the real sinner is he who caused the darkness." - Victor Hugo <cite>Shadow Don posted [p:951017319] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Thighon posted... </cite> <quote>what, specifically, has his leadership in these companies accomplished? like what is happening to change the world specifically because of him</quote> CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>The software updates are innovative because: * They add new features * They sometimes release updates to increase efficiency * Bug fixes * All OTA What other car company is doing this?</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ROOTFayth 02/24/21 10:19:00 AM #295:	Thighon posted... what, specifically, has his leadership in these companies accomplished? like what is happening to change the world specifically because of him stop asking questions and read the book <cite>ROOTFayth posted [p:951017383] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Thighon posted... </cite> <quote>what, specifically, has his leadership in these companies accomplished? like what is happening to change the world specifically because of him</quote>stop asking questions and read the book </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 10:22:18 AM #296:	Thighon posted... what, specifically, has his leadership in these companies accomplished? like what is happening to change the world specifically because of him I've already listed multiple examples in this topic. Tesla - Innovation in cars happening at a pace that other manufacturers can't touch. Innovation in cars was happening without Tesla, but at a snail's pace. Autonomous driving improvements, OTA software updates, battery technology, fast charging, overall technology suite, etc. Starlink - As long as the infrastructure holds up under load, this will be a game changer for people who live in remote areas. Satellite internet has been trash since its inception, but Starlink is offering 50 - 150 Mbps down with 20 - 40ms latency, which was unthinkable for satellite internet before. SpaceX - Success with re-usable rockets and controlled landing of rocket parts. If they see continued success with this, it will drastically lower the cost of space missions, which helps us do more for less. Not suggesting Elon Musk is doing all of this by himself, but that's pretty standard for any company. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951017477] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Thighon posted... </cite> <quote>what, specifically, has his leadership in these companies accomplished? like what is happening to change the world specifically because of him</quote> I've already listed multiple examples in this topic. Tesla - Innovation in cars happening at a pace that other manufacturers can't touch. Innovation in cars was happening without Tesla, but at a snail's pace. Autonomous driving improvements, OTA software updates, battery technology, fast charging, overall technology suite, etc. Starlink - As long as the infrastructure holds up under load, this will be a game changer for people who live in remote areas. Satellite internet has been trash since its inception, but Starlink is offering 50 - 150 Mbps down with 20 - 40ms latency, which was unthinkable for satellite internet before. SpaceX - Success with re-usable rockets and controlled landing of rocket parts. If they see continued success with this, it will drastically lower the cost of space missions, which helps us do more for less. Not suggesting Elon Musk is doing all of this by himself, but that's pretty standard for any company. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thighon 02/24/21 10:23:29 AM #297:	CableZL posted... I've already listed multiple examples in this topic. I'm not reading 300 posts of back and forth CableZL posted... Tesla - Innovation in cars happening at a pace that other manufacturers can't touch. Innovation in cars was happening without Tesla, but at a snail's pace. Autonomous driving improvements, OTA software updates, battery technology, fast charging, overall technology suite, etc. Starlink - As long as the infrastructure holds up under load, this will be a game changer for people who live in remote areas. Satellite internet has been trash since its inception, but Starlink is offering 50 - 150 Mbps down with 20 - 40ms latency, which was unthinkable for satellite internet before. SpaceX - Success with re-usable rockets and controlled landing of rocket parts. If they see continued success with this, it will drastically lower the cost of space missions, which helps us do more for less. Thanks. So Elon actually seems prett- CableZL posted... Not suggesting Elon Musk is doing all of this by himself, but that's pretty standard for any company. oh. Okay, so what is he responsible for then? <cite>Thighon posted [p:951017506] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>I've already listed multiple examples in this topic.</quote>I'm not reading 300 posts of back and forth CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>Tesla - Innovation in cars happening at a pace that other manufacturers can't touch. Innovation in cars was happening without Tesla, but at a snail's pace. Autonomous driving improvements, OTA software updates, battery technology, fast charging, overall technology suite, etc. Starlink - As long as the infrastructure holds up under load, this will be a game changer for people who live in remote areas. Satellite internet has been trash since its inception, but Starlink is offering 50 - 150 Mbps down with 20 - 40ms latency, which was unthinkable for satellite internet before. SpaceX - Success with re-usable rockets and controlled landing of rocket parts. If they see continued success with this, it will drastically lower the cost of space missions, which helps us do more for less.</quote> Thanks. So Elon actually seems prett- CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>Not suggesting Elon Musk is doing all of this by himself, but that's pretty standard for any company.</quote>oh. Okay, so what is he responsible for then? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 10:26:11 AM #298:	I'm really not sure where this idea comes from that Elon Musk deserves no credit whatsoever just because he isn't doing all these things by himself. Steve Jobs didn't build or run Apple by himself. Billl Gates didn't build or run Microsoft by himself. Jeff Bezos didn't build or run Amazon by himself. They're are or were the leaders in their respective companies and they obviously get credit for the successes and blame for failures alike. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951017570] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>I'm really not sure where this idea comes from that Elon Musk deserves no credit whatsoever just because he isn't doing all these things by himself. Steve Jobs didn't build or run Apple by himself. Billl Gates didn't build or run Microsoft by himself. Jeff Bezos didn't build or run Amazon by himself. They're are or were the leaders in their respective companies and they obviously get credit for the successes and blame for failures alike. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 10:28:34 AM #299:	Every company relies on a team of individuals to be successful. Walmart relies on a ton of people to do what they do. Same for Apple, Amazon, Samsung, Microsoft, Dell, Google, etc. The leaders of said organizations are sometimes more eccentric and in the public eye than others, to say the least, and Elon Musk is most certainly one of those. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951017629] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Every company relies on a team of individuals to be successful. Walmart relies on a ton of people to do what they do. Same for Apple, Amazon, Samsung, Microsoft, Dell, Google, etc. The leaders of said organizations are sometimes more eccentric and in the public eye than others, to say the least, and Elon Musk is most certainly one of those. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
viewmaster_pi 02/24/21 10:34:45 AM #300:	ROOTFayth posted... stop asking questions and read the book sounds like Big Book got to you... booklicker!!!! --- I'm squinting my eye and turning off and on and on and off the light <cite>viewmaster_pi posted [p:951017792] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>ROOTFayth posted... </cite> <quote>stop asking questions and read the book</quote>sounds like Big Book got to you... booklicker!!!! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thighon 02/24/21 10:35:04 AM #301:	CableZL posted... Steve Jobs didn't build or run Apple by himself. Billl Gates didn't build or run Microsoft by himself. Jeff Bezos didn't build or run Amazon by himself. Cool, I don't give those guys credit either and there's no reason to bring them up. There's this contentious notion that Elon Musk is responsible for advancing humanity. I just can't get on that wavelength, because I don't see how owning a company that is doing this work independent of you is some sort of historical achievement CableZL posted... The leaders of said organizations are sometimes more eccentric and in the public eye than others, to say the least, and Elon Musk is most certainly one of those. The word you're looking for is sociopathic. I guess draconian works too Below, how does him getting exclusive use of Tesla products before they release for consumers = him being a revolutionary? What does he do beyond "he's involved with x product" <cite>Thighon posted [p:951017805] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>Steve Jobs didn't build or run Apple by himself. Billl Gates didn't build or run Microsoft by himself. Jeff Bezos didn't build or run Amazon by himself.</quote>Cool, I don't give those guys credit either and there's no reason to bring them up. There's this contentious notion that Elon Musk is responsible for advancing humanity. I just can't get on that wavelength, because I don't see how owning a company that is doing this work independent of you is some sort of historical achievement CableZL posted... </cite> <quote>The leaders of said organizations are sometimes more eccentric and in the public eye than others, to say the least, and Elon Musk is most certainly one of those.</quote>The word you're looking for is sociopathic. I guess draconian works too Below, how does him getting exclusive use of Tesla products before they release for consumers = him being a revolutionary? What does he do beyond "he's involved with x product" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CableZL 02/24/21 10:37:03 AM #302:	Thighon posted... Cool, I don't give those guys credit either and there's no reason to bring them up. There's this contentious notion that Elon Musk is responsible for advancing humanity. I just can't get on that wavelength, because I don't see how owning a company that is doing this work independent of you is some sort of historical achievement The work isn't entirely independent of Elon Musk, though. With Tesla, Elon Musk is heavily involved in testing and development of the autonomous driving software at the very least. His Model S is at the bleeding edge of the company. He had full self driving enabled on his car long before anyone else got it in the limited beta And I'm not pretending Elon Musk is some unassailable saint. He often speaks on things he has no business speaking about and would sometimes benefit more from not saying anything at all. However, to suggest he deserves no credit for spearheading Tesla, SpaceX, or Starlink is pretty ridiculous. --- https://i.imgtc.com/d9Fc4Qq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/BKHTxYq.gif https://i.imgtc.com/vYYIuDx.jpg <cite>CableZL posted [p:951017875] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Thighon posted... </cite> <quote>Cool, I don't give those guys credit either and there's no reason to bring them up. There's this contentious notion that Elon Musk is responsible for advancing humanity. I just can't get on that wavelength, because I don't see how owning a company that is doing this work independent of you is some sort of historical achievement</quote> The work isn't entirely independent of Elon Musk, though. With Tesla, Elon Musk is heavily involved in testing and development of the autonomous driving software at the very least. His Model S is at the bleeding edge of the company. He had full self driving enabled on his car long before anyone else got it in the limited beta And I'm not pretending Elon Musk is some unassailable saint. He often speaks on things he has no business speaking about and would sometimes benefit more from not saying anything at all. However, to suggest he deserves no credit for spearheading Tesla, SpaceX, or Starlink is pretty ridiculous. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#303	Post #303 was unavailable or deleted.
AloneIBreak 02/24/21 4:24:08 PM #304:	Heartomaton posted... I like how TC just keeps layering condescension on top of condescension. Sometimes ponies that only know one trick are still entertaining. I know multiple tricks, but I appreciate that youre entertained :) Generally, I agree with progressives about most things, but theyre annoying and think entirely too highly of themselves. And its frustrating that theyre considered the far left. I would regard them as authoritarian capitalists, which places them squarely on the right. They need some condescension now and then imo. --- CE's friendly neighborhood rationalist. <cite>AloneIBreak posted [p:951030164] in Does the p... [t:79313015]...</cite> <quote>Heartomaton posted... </cite> <quote>I like how TC just keeps layering condescension on top of condescension. Sometimes ponies that only know one trick are still entertaining.</quote>I know multiple tricks, but I appreciate that youre entertained :) Generally, I agree with progressives about most things, but theyre annoying and think entirely too highly of themselves. And its frustrating that theyre considered the far left. I would regard them as authoritarian capitalists, which places them squarely on the right. They need some condescension now and then imo. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Does the progressive hive mind like or dislike Elon Musk? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Does the progressive hive mind like or dislike Elon Musk?