Poll of the Day > GameTok with Lok: You know you love it - SNES RPGS!!!

(+) Yeah! (+)

Oh yeah, the best subject!

Top picks for Lok?

Well, Final Fantasy 6 is easily on there, but oddly not my #1 despite being quite worthy... no, #1 goes to Lufia 2.

Lufia 2
FF6
Paladin's Quest... ahh, my guilty crush

But what about the baaaaad RPGs?

Well, there's a few... Breath of Fire 1 is kinda very mediocre despite its innovations in RPG cutscenes (a feature largely excluded from Breath of Fire 2), but it's still a pretty ok... I daresay Breath of Fire 1 is the very middle-point of SNES RPGs

Nay, the bottom is easily Obitus... worthy of an AVGN episode bad. Drakken 1 is also rather gimp... but I can see some charm there.

...

What are your SNES RPG opinions? I still say it was and IS the best era of RPGs even with graphical giants like Mass Effect to go against.

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bahamut lagoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon

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agesboy posted...

bahamut lagoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon

That game... ... I think might have been bad, but it did have hella cool graphics

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agesboy posted...

bahamut lagoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon

? Bahamut Lagoon was amazing.
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Any discussion on the SNES is so trite by now. Been talking about these games for as long as I've been on the internet (20 years this year), and I can't really understand why we continue to nostalgia over them. Same thing has been happening to PSX games too.

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Judgmenl posted...

Any discussion on the SNES is so trite by now. Been talking about these games for as long as I've been on the internet (20 years this year), and I can't really understand why we continue to nostalgia over them. Same thing has been happening to PSX games too.

It's not just nostalgia... they are still somehow actually better; at least gameplaywise (and not "all" of then).

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Yes but how many times are you going to play these games?
I must have played Chrono Trigger a half dozen times in my life. I don't want to play that game anymore. Same goes for FFVI, this is lampshaded by FFV because FFV just has disgusting replay value, but it's the case for basically every SNES JRPG that's not FFV. and eventually even FFV can only be fjf'd so many times.

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Judgmenl posted...

Yes but how many times are you going to play these games?
I must have played Chrono Trigger a half dozen times in my life. I don't want to play that game anymore. Same goes for FFVI, this is lampshaded by FFV because FFV just has disgusting replay value, but it's the case for basically every SNES JRPG that's not FFV. and eventually even FFV can only be fjf'd so many times.

Until maybe 4 years ago I beat Breath of Fire 2 every year... I think that's about when my RetroDuo portable broke, then I bought it on the 3DS.

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i didnt read the middle of lok's post and thought we was naming good ones woops

Lokarin posted...

It's not just nostalgia... they are still somehow actually better; at least gameplaywise (and not "all" of then).

no it's still almost entirely nostalgia

i went though the vast majority of the "legendary" snes jrpgs in high school and they were not really very good in general, only bahamut lagoon actually seemed to still hold up really well because it was pretty unique

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agesboy posted...

i didnt read the middle of lok's post and thought we was naming good ones woops

no it's still almost entirely nostalgia

i went though the vast majority of the "legendary" snes jrpgs in high school and they were not really very good in general, only bahamut lagoon actually seemed to still hold up really well because it was pretty unique

There's almost no way to determine if it is just nostalgia or if older games are legitimately still better.

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there is a way, find people that played those games for the first time recently so there is no chance for nostalgia

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agesboy posted...

there is a way, find people that played those games for the first time recently so there is no chance for nostalgia

I don't see how someone elses opinion can explain my opinion...


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your opinion is biased towards nostalgia to begin with and can't be used for the question "is this nostalgia or were games better"

if you actually want to know if old games were better or not, you need a lot more viewpoints than just your own one view

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agesboy posted...

your opinion is biased towards nostalgia to begin with and can't be used for the question "is this nostalgia or were games better"

if you actually want to know if old games were better or not, you need a lot more viewpoints than just your own one view

Wouldn't the easier way be to recommend me modern RPGs so I can judge those ones?

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Lokarin posted...

Wouldn't the easier way be to recommend me modern RPGs so I can judge those ones?

The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky, but I don't think you'd like the game. I've recommended it to you several times already.

I guess you did play/finish DQXI, and the first Sky game is probably 20-30 hours shorter than DQXI.

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Judgmenl posted...

The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky, but I don't think you'd like the game. I've recommended it to you several times already.

I guess you did play/finish DQXI, and the first Sky game is probably 20-30 hours shorter than DQXI.

I don't remember being recommended that, but I have recommeded it to others without even playing it since FALCOM tends to make great games

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Lokarin posted...

I don't remember being recommended that, but I have recommeded it to others without even playing it since FALCOM tends to make great games

I don't know a single person I haven't recommended it to. I have even given several copies of the game away over the years. Most cannot get past the first two hours of the game sadly.

This game was the anti-nostalgia argument for me. I first played it in 2015? I think. The second game instantly became one of my top 5 favorite games of all time.

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Judgmenl posted...

I don't know a single person I haven't recommended it to. I have even given several copies of the game away over the years. Most cannot get past the first two hours of the game sadly.

This game was the anti-nostalgia argument for me. I first played it in 2015? I think. The second game instantly became one of my top 5 favorite games of all time.

Well, I did score 1% for immersion :V

Don't get me wrong - I liked Disgaea 1 a lot, and Disgaea 2 a fair bit... ... didn't care for Disgaea 3 but I really got hooked on Makai Kingdom

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Yea that's why I don't think you'd like it.
The whole "thing" about Trails is that it's a story that's planned to take place over like 30 years of real time. The first game came out in 2004, and we're only 60-70% of the way through the "story".

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Then again - I'm having a hard time getting into The Witcher (but only have 1 and 2), and Skyrim was kinda fun but didn't have much staying power for me (but I don't really use mods at all)

Love the Monster Hunter games, but they very much aren't classic RPGs

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Oh there are currently 10 entries in the series, all of which are 50+ hours long with the 11th entry coming out this year. The 60% claim was when the 10th entry was coming out. So there's going to be like 15-16 entries in the series in total, but I try not to keep up with current happenings because I'm always 2-3 games behind due to playing on PC...

Lokarin posted...

Then again - I'm having a hard time getting into The Witcher (but only have 1 and 2), and Skyrim was kinda fun but didn't have much staying power for me (but I don't really use mods at all)

The Witcher is awful. Basically everyone who has a gaming opinion I trust has said more or less the same thing.

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actually... lets check my steam history... what classic rpgs have I played recently? I know I play a lot of roguelikes and slant-RPGs (like Monster Hunter).

There's definitely DQ11 which I rather liked, but lets check to be sure:

Ok, top of the list are Ys: Oath in Felghana and Ark of Napishtam but only 'cuz I just installed them... I was reminded to play them recently. I like the OG Ys 1 and 2 more than the remakes tho since I really liked the Bump... Mask of the Sun is probably the best Ys game

...Darksiders 2? Ok, Slant-RPG

Final Fantasy 9 - that was a lot more tolerable with the speed and cutscene skip, got the Excalibur 2 on the first try

FF8 remastered - did a quick achievement run

Monster Sanctuary - Ok, 10/10 great RPG - they just added an extra hard mode so I been meaning to replay it

...not an RPG but Dragon Quest Builders 2 was reallly nice

Bard's Tale Trilogy? I must have just installed it for playing cards

..

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Ok, there's DQ11

...roguelike roguelike roguelike Darksouls roguelike Borderlands...

Oh! Artifact Adventure Gaiden - AA and AAG are both top tier RPGS, definitely go play them

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Ok, below that is Chrono Trigger

roguelike roguelike Darkest Dungeon roguelike

Final Fantasy 6

..

Ok, WOW - I didn't realize i haven't played a new RPG in a long time... Ima skip anything that's a remake or port cuz just below FF6 is the other port of FF8 and FF5 then FF3 then FF12, certainly there's a classic RPG in here?

OH! Found one - Divinity 2 Developers cut! ... but I haven't played it, so next! Dang, already in 2017 on my library

Baldur's Gate enhanced... haven't played it

2016...
Recettear! There we go, that's a good one.

Ok, and there's Undertale and LISA. So that's basically my recent RPG timeline


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Could never get into witcher 1 or 2. Been playing 3 recently, and it's solidly aight. Not best game ever territory by far, and certainly not worth the amount of development hours it took for me, but it's a lot easier to get into than 1 and 2.
Lokarin posted...

actually... lets check my steam history... what classic rpgs have I played recently? I know I play a lot of roguelikes and slant-RPGs (like Monster Hunter).

yakuza 7 is the best jrpg of at least the past half a decade, should play it

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I find the lack of FF5 in this topic...disturbing.

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TheNobleWoodApe posted...

I find the lack of FF5 in this topic...disturbing.

It's like Terranigma... doesn't exist

But ya, FF5 is really good... and I love the class system, wish they'd use it again (I don't mean FF14), but I wouldn't put it over FF6

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I'm not really an RPG guy in general, I played all the SNES Classic ones and that's about it. I thought they were all at least decent so I don't know if it's just nostalgia. Though I also feel like it's possible to get nostalgic for an era of gaming in general even if you didn't play that particular game, so I don't know

Lokarin posted...

It's like Terranigma... doesn't exist

But ya, FF5 is really good... and I love the class system, wish they'd use it again (I don't mean FF14), but I wouldn't put it over FF6

FF6 just stopped being fun for me between the vail and the fallen world.

At least in FF5, I eneded up with a guy dual wielding 2h swords, a mage double casting the most powerful magic in the game, and berserk monk hitting everything 20+ times, and a healer that was immune to statuses and dual wielding shields and cloaks that was practically unhittable once all was said and done.

And if I wanted to get frisky, I could swap in crazy stupid jobs for my own amusement.

you could basically break FF5 so hard by endgame that it was hilarious.

If there were an ff game with ff5s job system and zodiac age's bounties and Gambit's...just lol.

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TheNobleWoodApe posted...

If there were an ff game with ff5s job system and zodiac age's bounties and Gambit's...just lol.

ya, I'd like that a fair lot

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Lokarin posted...

ya, I'd like that a fair lot

Hell, just give me a crack at Hell Wyrm and Yiazmat with my FF5 endgame party, or any other FF superboss.

I'd take a swing at SMT superbosses with that party. Yeah, Lucifer in Nocturne, AND Hitosura in DDS2.

Ozma from 9, Penance/Judgement from X and the ff7 "weapons" wouldn't even be footnotes by FF rules to the point where SMT superbosses might be the only challenge left for a maxed out FF5 team if you turned them loose in other games.

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TheNobleWoodApe posted...

Hitosura in DDS2.

Was he in part 2? I thought he was only Part 1

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Lokarin posted...

Was he in part 2? I thought he was only Part 1

Tbh, the older SMT games are fuzzy in my mind this far after. That encounter may well have been in DDS1.

But it spoke volumes in DDS that his boss theme for you was HIS random mob battle theme from Nocturne. In your game you were just a trash mob when you ran into him.

I spent a lot of the endgame of Strange Journey worried he was going to show up.

I was really disappointed by SMTIV as a whole despite really wanting to like it.

Point being, FFV was so...malleable by endgame that it was about as broken as you could ever really conceivably make an endgame party. Like worse than Hitoshura rolling with Dante, Metatron, Shiva, and Vishnu.

I'm just suggesting that FF5's job system is so OP in endgame that if it spilled over to other games, Lucifer, Ozma, Yiazmat, Baal Prinny, Ultima Weapon, Hitoshura...the pantheon of RPG superbosses become trash mobs if there were an RPG multiverse.

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My main problem with 5 is, well, the completionist in me... I'm in the remake post-game and SOMEHOW I missed a chest somewhere, guess I have to play the WHOLE GAME AGAIN

...nothing to do with 5 itself, it's just my brain

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Lokarin posted...

My main problem with 5 is, well, the completionist in me... I'm in the remake post-game and SOMEHOW I missed a chest somewhere, guess I have to play the WHOLE GAME AGAIN

...nothing to do with 5 itself, it's just my brain

Vanilla FF12's Zodiac Spear send it's regards.

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TheNobleWoodApe posted...

Vanilla FF12's Zodiac Spear send it's regards.

That's nothing, what about the Seitengrat?

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Secondary Topic:

What are some non-team competitive games?

I mean... they don't have to be single-player (which I guess would be speedruns?); just competitive.

I'll exclude Starcraft 1+2 just 'cuz, like, I'm aware of them... but I don't really care for base building style RTS

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Lokarin posted...

Secondary Topic:

What are some non-team competitive games?

I mean... they don't have to be single-player (which I guess would be speedruns?); just competitive.

I'll exclude Starcraft 1+2 just 'cuz, like, I'm aware of them... but I don't really care for base building style RTS

Well, there's always battle royales like PUBG, but the hackers have ruined that game on literally every platform.

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ACtually, reviewing my Steam timeline... ... it's like I died in 2015 and only started caring again this last year or so.

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And that lines up with my apartment move and getting on new medication respectively

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Lufia 2: good, but I didn't like the repetition of 1 village + 1 dungeon that persisted through the entire game from beginning to end. also at times felt more like a puzzle game than an RPG.

FF6: good, but overrated in a lot of ways. among the most epic of final bosses though.

Paladin's Quest: love the style, but haven't played it in a very long time

Breath of Fire 1: loved it back in the day, but haven't played it in decades. only problem is that I never liked the feel of attacks; the sounds and animations have a kind of unsatisfying frustrating feel.

Drakkhen 1: I liked the tiny bit of it that I played a million years ago but couldn't get anywhere in the time I had it rented

The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky: easily earns the "best writing in a game I have ever played, period." award. (like, this is IMO even better than Bioware game writing.) the combat is unfortunately not quite as good, but really it doesn't matter. this could be the literal best game of all time if the combat was as good as the characters, story, and setting. (to be clear, the combat is interesting and it works, it's just *excruciatingly* tedious. I think it could be fixed by increasing the speed that everything happens, but that will probably never happen.)

The Witcher: it's been a while, but IIRC it takes some getting used to the combat and can feel clunky and impossible before then. by the end, though, it was almost easy. (very long time ago that I played it though.)

For SNES RPGs, I think I do agree that they are a bit overrated and are somewhat nostalgia-driven. They were definitely good at the time, but I've definitely had more deeper and more meaningful gaming experiences since that era (particularly the 2010s).

A random recommendation of a game that I remember enjoying back then that probably no one else would mention is Brain Lord. I remember enjoying it, and I remember one particular puzzle that I was stuck on, but I don't remember much other than that.

Recommendations for WRPGs are definitely Morrowind (use OpenMW), and BG:EE and BG2:EE. And maybe IWD:EE, but it's combat-heavy story-lite and the quality wanes as you get further.

(More hardcore recommendation would be: All of the Might and Magic games, particularly 3, 4, 5, 7, and maybe 8, 9 (broken), and 10 (more modern/different). but at least 3 and 10.)


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Judgmenl posted...

trite

Most pretentious word in the English language

DrunkCaveman posted...

Most pretentious word in the English language

Turgid

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DrunkCaveman posted...

Most pretentious word in the English language

Except it's the perfect word for this scenario. If I have to see one more FFVI vs Super Mario RPG vs Chrono Trigger discussion I am going to gouge my eyes out.

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Still play Chrono Trigger every few years. Just beat it again around Christmas. Top tier game for sure. The standard by which most RPGs are judged.
Final Fantasy 5 is the best FF on the SNES.
FF 6 is ok. Loved it when it came out, but I find it somewhat of a chore to play.
Same goes for FF 4 - but I like it much less.
Lufia 2 is a good game, but pretty formulaic (town, dungeon, town, dungeon)
Lufia 1 I have more fond memories of. Pretty generic, though.
Im playing Super Mario RPG right now. Still a pretty good game.
Never was crazy for Earthbound, but it is a good game. Ill play it before FF 4 or 6.
Breath of Fire games are good. I prefer 2 over 1.
Really liked Robotrek. Does get a little old, though.
Loved Arcana when it came out. Havent played it since then, though.
Romancing Saga 3 is a pretty solid game. I havent beat it, but I enjoy the openness.

I still have many that I want to play more / get through: Treasure of the Rudras, Treasure Hunter G, Live a Live, etc.

Judgmenl posted...

Except it's the perfect word for this scenario. If I have to see one more FFVI vs Super Mario RPG vs Chrono Trigger discussion I am going to gouge my eyes out.

Yaknow, I like Chrono Trigger a lot - but after doing all the endings and doing some challenge runs I think it's fully out of my system - I can play FF6 and Mario RPG pretty much any time still

As such, I don't think I'm being unreasonable in putting CT lower on the list

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agesboy posted...

there is a way, find people that played those games for the first time recently so there is no chance for nostalgia

That would only work if they're playing the originals too. No shitty sprites Steam FF6 version.

Sahuagin posted...

Lufia 2: good, but I didn't like the repetition of 1 village + 1 dungeon that persisted through the entire game from beginning to end. also at times felt more like a puzzle game than an RPG.

FF6: good, but overrated in a lot of ways. among the most epic of final bosses though.

Paladin's Quest: love the style, but haven't played it in a very long time

Breath of Fire 1: loved it back in the day, but haven't played it in decades. only problem is that I never liked the feel of attacks; the sounds and animations have a kind of unsatisfying frustrating feel.

Drakkhen 1: I liked the tiny bit of it that I played a million years ago but couldn't get anywhere in the time I had it rented

The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky: easily earns the "best writing in a game I have ever played, period." award. (like, this is IMO even better than Bioware game writing.) the combat is unfortunately not quite as good, but really it doesn't matter. this could be the literal best game of all time if the combat was as good as the characters, story, and setting. (to be clear, the combat is interesting and it works, it's just *excruciatingly* tedious. I think it could be fixed by increasing the speed that everything happens, but that will probably never happen.)

The Witcher: it's been a while, but IIRC it takes some getting used to the combat and can feel clunky and impossible before then. by the end, though, it was almost easy. (very long time ago that I played it though.)

For SNES RPGs, I think I do agree that they are a bit overrated and are somewhat nostalgia-driven. They were definitely good at the time, but I've definitely had more deeper and more meaningful gaming experiences since that era (particularly the 2010s).

A random recommendation of a game that I remember enjoying back then that probably no one else would mention is Brain Lord. I remember enjoying it, and I remember one particular puzzle that I was stuck on, but I don't remember much other than that.

Recommendations for WRPGs are definitely Morrowind (use OpenMW), and BG:EE and BG2:EE. And maybe IWD:EE, but it's combat-heavy story-lite and the quality wanes as you get further.

(More hardcore recommendation would be: All of the Might and Magic games, particularly 3, 4, 5, 7, and maybe 8, 9 (broken), and 10 (more modern/different). but at least 3 and 10.)

Oh I thought I was the only one that played Brain Lord.

kukukupo posted...

I still have many that I want to play more / get through: Treasure of the Rudras, Treasure Hunter G, Live a Live, etc.

All 3 of those are severely underrated.
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I wouldn't mind throwing in the Genesis RPGs... but most of them are pretty bad.

I'll add in though that I didn't play Wonderboy in Monster World until it was put on Steam and I loved it, so, like, I had no nostalgic commitment to it.

Also, if y'all want a modern classic RPG... Artifact Adventure is REALLY good.

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Did anyone like The 7th Saga?

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Judgmenl posted...

If I have to see one more FFVI vs Super Mario RPG vs Chrono Trigger discussion I am going to gouge my eyes out.

Commence with the gouging!

Chrono Trigger is the best. After playing FFVI Brave New World I can't go back to the original, it's so busted. And Mario RPG is barely even a RPG.

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Molitheus posted...

Did anyone like The 7th Saga?

I didn't get to play it, but my younger brother loves it and Brain Lord

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