Current Events > All Gen 1 Pokemon Vs 1 billion lions

(+) Yeah! (+)

The lions as the Pokemon will run out of PP.

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AtelierRyza3462 posted...

The lions as the Pokemon will run out of PP.

A single Diglett could solo all the lions.

Sandstorm lasts for 5 turns and does 1/16th of the HP of every target on the field. (Except ground, rock, and steel types) It has 10 PP, which means theres more than enough to kill everything.

Diglett opens with Sandstorm, then burrows underground where the lions cant reach it.

After the sandstorm subsides, Diglett resurfaces at a safe distance from the lion horde and uses another sandstorm, then goes back underground.

4 uses of Sandstorm is all it would take to win.

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AlisLandale posted...

Heres the cheese strat.

Pidgeot is a flying type and huge as fuck. It picks up a Voltorb and flies out of Lion range.

Gengar uses perish song.

In three turns (or however that translates into real time) everyone fucking dies. Except Pokemon with Soundproof (voltorb lol)

voltorb lands safely on a pile of dead lions. Pokmon are victorious.

correct me if Im wrong but Perish song only affects Pokmon (the user doesnt faint) and it only affects one Pokmon (doesnt target both in doubles).

also, sandstorm affects combatant types (off the Pokdex entry) and Lions dont have any type, so theres no guarantee they would be affected by sandstorm.

CheckmateD1 posted...

Pokemon would win for sure, though not without sacrifice. No doubt lots of them would eventually die from being overwhelmed by enough lions.

But when all is said and done, there's too many insanely strong Pokemon that can take out hordes of lions, that can take all the time they need. How are any of those lions even going to reach some of these monsters? They just can't, and they don't have any ridiculous powers to compete with. The Pokemon should come out victorious.

Not in gen 1.


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AlisLandale posted...

A single Diglett could solo all the lions.

Sandstorm lasts for 5 turns and does 1/16th of the HP of every target on the field. (Except ground, rock, and steel types) It has 10 PP, which means theres more than enough to kill everything.

Diglett opens with Sandstorm, then burrows underground where the lions cant reach it.

After the sandstorm subsides, Diglett resurfaces at a safe distance from the lion horde and uses another sandstorm, then goes back underground.

4 uses of Sandstorm is all it would take to win.

Dig requires the user to come back up and be vulnerable to attack now and then. If enough lions team up on Diglett when it resurfaces (in a situation where there are 6 million lions per pokemon), it won't survive long enough to pull that off. Maybe an especially hardy rock pokemon could manage it if any of them can learn sandstorm and dig.

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a lion would tear a diglett to shreds, come on. besides stage 3 evolutions and obviously legendaries, most pokemon are weak as fuck compared to a lion.

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ShaheerRahman posted...

correct me if Im wrong but Perish song only affects Pokmon (the user doesnt faint) and it only affects one Pokmon (doesnt target both in doubles).

also, sandstorm affects combatant types (off the Pokdex entry) and Lions dont have any type, so theres no guarantee they would be affected by sandstorm.

And what are you talking about they wont be affected by sandstorm because they dont have a type

uwnim posted...

Not in gen 1.

Oh, if were going by Gen 1 mechanics this is even easier.

Gengar isnt affected by lions attacks. Gengar can learn rage, which has infinite uses off of 1 PP. Itll take forever, but its a guaranteed win. Heck, most of the lions will probably just die of old age before the battle finishes lol.

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Trickfinger posted...

a lion would tear a diglett to shreds, come on. besides stage 3 evolutions and obviously legendaries, most pokemon are weak as fuck compared to a lion.

Diglett is too fast to get caught by a lion, and has the advantage of chilling underground while the lions take passive damage. It only needs to be above ground for like, 4 whole cumulative seconds.

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not gen 1 mechanics. Gen 1 Pokmon. They didnt start getting absurd with map wide effects until gen 3.
Lions also wouldnt get killed by a sandstorm in a few turns or whatever. They actually go through that shit in real life in some places.

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uwnim posted...

not gen 1 mechanics. Gen 1 Pokmon. They didnt start getting absurd with map wide effects until gen 3.
Lions also wouldnt get killed by a sandstorm in a few turns or whatever. They actually go through that shit in real life in some places.

Youre literally cherry picking random rules lol.

Gengar learns Perish Song. It effects all Pokemon on the field. You either accept this fact (and therefore, defeat) or you restrict the rules to Gen 1 mechanics specifically, which is the only condition in which Gengar does not learn Perish Song, and he still wins because of Rage.

And it doesnt matter what lions go through in real life. The Pokmon attack sandstorm does damage. Leering at things doesnt make them weaker to physical damage in real life, but the Pokmon move does lol.

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AlisLandale posted...

Diglett is too fast to get caught by a lion, and has the advantage of chilling underground while the lions take passive damage. It only needs to be above ground for like, 4 whole cumulative seconds.

It has to be above ground until its next turn. It's possible for it to use Dig again in the next turn, but to get underground unscathed, it would need to move slower than any lion on the turn it resurfaces and faster than any lion on the turn it digs again. And it would need to survive the turns when it uses Sandstorm above ground without being mauled.

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Hambo the Hog posted...

It has to be above ground until its next turn. It's possible for it to use Dig again in the next turn, but to get underground unscathed, it would need to move slower than any lion on the turn it resurfaces and faster than any lion on the turn it digs again. And it would need to survive the turns when it uses Sandstorm above ground without being mauled.

Nah brah Diglett does what it wants


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AlisLandale posted...

Youre literally cherry picking random rules lol.

Gengar learns Perish Song. It effects all Pokemon on the field. You either accept this fact (and therefore, defeat) or you restrict the rules to Gen 1 mechanics specifically, which is the only condition in which Gengar does not learn Perish Song, and he still wins because of Rage.

And it doesnt matter what lions go through in real life. The Pokmon attack sandstorm does damage. Leering at things doesnt make them weaker to physical damage in real life, but the Pokmon move does lol.

It does though. It would mean wed have to consider them to have a passive that nullifies sandstorm damage.

Shit like perish song doesnt matter. It is local area of effect and would take a lot of uses to get every lion to even hear it.

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uwnim posted...

It does though. It would mean wed have to consider them to have a passive that nullifies sandstorm damage.

Shit like perish song doesnt matter. It is local area of effect and would take a lot of uses to get every lion to even hear it.

Lions dont have any abilities, period. Rhydon can surf in water unharmed, and dies to bubble. Pokmon attacks are a seperate phenomenon from nature.

Perish song is not local, its battlefield-wide. If the battlefield has a billion lions, then a billion lions are getting hit.


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AlisLandale posted...

Lions dont have any abilities, period. Rhydon can surf in water unharmed, and dies to bubble. Pokmon attacks are a seperate phenomenon from nature.

Perish song is not local, its battlefield-wide. If the battlefield has a billion lions, then a billion lions are getting hit.

No it fucking isnt. The first battlefield wide effects were n the series came from Groudon and Kyogre. Using perish song in pallet town would have no effect on lions in viridian city. It will only affect those close enough to clearly hear it.

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Also, human trainers dont fucking die from sandstorm being used even if they dont have protective gear.

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The sandstorm move is less powerful than natural sandstorms since we have seen human trainers have to leave an area with a natural sandstorm before due to not having protected be gear, yet be fine though f that would be used in battle.

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1 billion lions is a lot. You have shit like Mew and Dragonite which would slaughter thousands but they would get tired eventually

Pokemon. All the legendaries can fly. Lions cannot.

Also, how would lions kill pokemon like Golem, Rhydon, and other rock types?

1 billion or not, they are toast.

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There are 1 billion lions.

Even without game mechanic restrictions like PP even mewtwo will get tired eventually and all the heavy hitters like dragonite or gyarados don't have infinite stamina

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AlisLandale posted...

And what are you talking about they wont be affected by sandstorm because they dont have a type

Oh, if were going by Gen 1 mechanics this is even easier.

Gengar isnt affected by lions attacks. Gengar can learn rage, which has infinite uses off of 1 PP. Itll take forever, but its a guaranteed win. Heck, most of the lions will probably just die of old age before the battle finishes lol.

Thanks for clarifying, I didnt know if Perish song affected all Pokmon. That being said my point stands that it only affects Pokmon so lions should be fine.

Since Lions arent Pokmon we cant state if they lose 1/16th Hp per turn on sandstorm.

Dragonite is a little over seven feet tall. He's also kinda fat and derpy. Even if he is very agile and can fly incredibly fast the best he could do against a billion lions is run away.

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ShaheerRahman posted...

Thanks for clarifying, I didnt know if Perish song affected all Pokmon. That being said my point stands that it only affects Pokmon so lions should be fine.

Even if it does, the lions will be fine. You arent getting 6.62 million lions in hearing range and if any other Pokmon happens to be close enough to hear, it is even worse for the Pokmon side.

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1 Golem rolling around causing EQ, sandstorm, using rollout ro get out of dodge when needed should be enough. I dont know how a lion is going to hurt him.

Blastoise could use Blizzard and withdraw when needed, pretty sure he can still use attacks after hes withdrawn.

Lots os pokemon are next to impossible to kill for the lions, so they'll win eventually.

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Jigglypuff puts them all to sleep and Scyther cuts all of their throats 1 by 1

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why aren't people accounting for the fact pokemon dont have infinite stamina

this is like "could the Navy SEALS take on 1 trillion Spartans" "debate", where they never think for a second what will happen when the bullets and nukes run out

SolidShadow3 posted...

1 Golem rolling around causing EQ, sandstorm, using rollout ro get out of dodge when needed should be enough. I dont know how a lion is going to hurt him.

Blastoise could use Blizzard and withdraw when needed, pretty sure he can still use attacks after hes withdrawn.

Lots os pokemon are next to impossible to kill for the lions, so they'll win eventually.

Golem's exposed head will get swept off by at least one of the two billion lions paws.

The sheer number of lions would crush the Blastoise shell.

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With gen 8 rules the Pokemon win easily because of ability stacking and spread moves.

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If the lions have Bite or Crunch, gengar is toast, and mewtwo might be too.

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uwnim posted...

Not in gen 1.

Well, no context was provided in the OP. So assuming:

• Both sides must continue to fight with no breaks in between.
• Each Pokemon inevitably runs out of PPs, then must use Struggle.

Then in that case, I could see the lions winning. But there is no context. How do we know the Pokemon have to follow these rules in a hypothetically real-battle? Why can't they use attacks that hit tons of lions (are we even using Gen 1 mechanics here)? What's stopping Flying and levitating mons from never getting hit, etc.

Assuming that basically anything goes, the Pokemon should prevail here.

While the pokemon do have stamina to worry about. Have we bothered checking their pokedex entries? Like...Machamp can start toppling mountains or pushing mountains to crash down on tons of lions at once killing them.

There's all kinds of other bizarre feats these pokemon are capable of. And the legendary birds can summon different storms that the others (especially electric pokemon) can take advantage of and just start culling huge swaths.

I don't see the pokemon being needed to be restrained to just their game mechanics since the lions have no game mechanics to work off period. Unless you want to say the lions work off an existing pokemon's stats or have similar to one they're close to.

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Pokedex entries are often very questionable or outright impossible, so I wouldn't base things off of them unless it sounds reasonable. Like Exploud being heard from 6 miles away is probably true, while Magcargo is certainly not actually anywhere near as hot as the pokedex says.

If it was every pokemon, I'd say the Pokemon would win just because later gens actually have pokemon do some crazy stuff.

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To counter the argument that the Pokemon will die by Struggle don't forget that you can undo all of the damage done by it by Baton Passing Ingrain and Aqua Ring onto it. Struggle takes 1/4th of a Pokemon's HP. Ingrain and Aqua Ring will heal back 1/8th of the damage from Struggle. Then give that Pokemon a Shell Bell. It heals 1/8th the damage done to the opponent. Assuming the lions have the same health as a maxed out Pyroar (376) and that this Pokemon in question has enough Attack to consistently 1HKO the lion with Struggle (you can always Baton Pass a Belly Drum or Swords Dance onto it) you would heal 47HP every turn.

So as long as the Pokemon that is using Struggle fully heals each turn and the lions can't hit it with a priority move (Gengar would be immune to Quick Attack and Extreme Speed for example) then running out of PP wouldn't be an issue.

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CheckmateD1 posted...

Well, no context was provided in the OP. So assuming:

* Both sides must continue to fight with no breaks in between.
* Each Pokemon inevitably runs out of PPs, then must use Struggle.
Then in that case, I could see the lions winning. But there is no context. How do we know the Pokemon have to follow these rules in a hypothetically real-battle? Why can't they use attacks that hit tons of lions (are we even using Gen 1 mechanics here)? What's stopping Flying and levitating mons from never getting hit, etc.

Assuming that basically anything goes, the Pokemon should prevail here.

it would take months for the pokemon to begin making a small dent in a billion lions. pokemon cant fight for months with no breaks

Son Of Spam posted...

To counter the argument that the Pokemon will die by Struggle don't forget that you can undo all of the damage done by it by Baton Passing Ingrain and Aqua Ring onto it. Struggle takes 1/4th of a Pokemon's HP. Ingrain and Aqua Ring will heal back 1/8th of the damage from Struggle. Then give that Pokemon a Shell Bell. It heals 1/8th the damage done to the opponent. Assuming the lions have the same health as a maxed out Pyroar (376) and that this Pokemon in question has enough Attack to consistently 1HKO the lion with Struggle (you can always Baton Pass a Belly Drum or Swords Dance onto it) you would heal 47HP every turn.

So as long as the Pokemon that is using Struggle fully heals each turn and the lions can't hit it with a priority move (Gengar would be immune to Quick Attack and Extreme Speed for example) then running out of PP wouldn't be an issue.

And how exactly are you baton passing to a pokemon that is already out?

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Even if Pokemon like Mewtwo/Mew/Birds would get tired eventually, they could just rest somewhere up high and feast on lion meat to recover their stamina. Nobody said they had to keep fighting non-stop until one side dies.

uwnim posted...

And how exactly are you baton passing to a pokemon that is already out?

So I guess you're assuming it's a battle with all 1 billion lions attacking at the same time as all 151 Gen 1 Pokemon at the same time? In that case that Baton Pass setup doesn't matter because the lions will be wiped out by spread moves like Surf+Helping Hand and be gimped by all of the crazy effects of Pokemon abilities you can stack.

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There are 6,622,516.5 lions per pokemon. Some pokemon are going to be absolutely worthless and die without taking out a single lion(e.g. Metapod), you'll also have things like Electrode who will likely just blow themselves up soon after the fight starts and will take out a decent amount of lions, but way below their quota(like less than 0.1%). This means the more capable Pokemon will have to do quite a bit more than their share of the work.

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Son Of Spam posted...

So I guess you're assuming it's a battle with all 1 billion lions attacking at the same time as all 151 Gen 1 Pokemon at the same time? In that case that Baton Pass setup doesn't matter because the lions will be wiped out by spread moves like Surf+Helping Hand and be gimped by all of the crazy effects of Pokemon abilities you can stack.

Yes, and no they won't. Surf doesn't cover miles of land. Like 100 lions, sure. 10,000 even if they are tightly packed. Like I really don't think the people saying pokemon would win understand just how many lions that is.

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From what I read, lions are only equipped to deal with warm places and would freeze to death even before it could start snowing. Then there was this certain birdy...

When Articuno flaps its wings, it can chill the moisture in the air around it, making snow fall.

Forget using moves and PP. Literally all Articuno needs to do is fly around. Sure a bunch of Pokemon will die, but the ones who can fly or otherwise avoid the lions just need to run out the clock while Articuno freezes their nads off.

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Unless entirely immune, a Pokmon takes a minimum of 1 damage per attack.

Flying Pokmon are susceptible to terrestrial attacks from non-flying Pokmon so simply flying does not mean they automatically get to avoid all incoming attacks unless the lions only used ground attacks, which they probably don't even know.

One billion is an absurd number. If you were to count to one million at a rate 1 number per second it would take just over 11 days. To do the same thing for one billion it would take you over 31 years.

Even if all the lions were level 1 weakling, they still at a minimum kill the Pokmon with 1 damage attacks. There are just too many of them. And yeah, given that both bite and crunch are dark attacks in considering any bites from lions to be dark and thus hit ghost.

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kage_53 posted...

Charizard, Dragonite, every ghost type, every rock type, all the psychic types and the three legendary birds solo.

I don't think that's how soloing works

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uwnim posted...

Yes, and no they won't. Surf doesn't cover miles of land. Like 100 lions, sure. 10,000 even if they are tightly packed. Like I really don't think the people saying pokemon would win understand just how many lions that is.

Surf hits everything in a horde battle. A single Surf attack would hit every single one of the lions at once with only a 75% damage reduction. This battle could possibly be won with just 3 Pokemon. A Tauros in the center with Earthquake, a Pokemon with Quick Guard like Hitmonchan to stop quick attacks, and anything else to do Helping Hand.

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Ghosts arent immune to normal attacks in Pokmon go.

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Son Of Spam posted...

Surf hits everything in a horde battle. A single Surf attack would hit every single one of the lions at once with only a 75% damage reduction. This battle could possibly be won with just 3 Pokemon. A Tauros in the center with Earthquake, a Pokemon with Quick Guard like Hitmonchan to stop quick attacks, and anything else to do Helping Hand.

*sigh* a horde battle takes place in a fairly small area. Not over hundreds of square miles.

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uwnim posted...

*sigh* a horde battle takes place in a fairly small area. Not over hundreds of square miles.

You're combining real-world mechanics with in-game mechanics. In a horde battle spread moves hit everything. And since we are talking gen 8 mechanics the closest thing would max raid battles, where the same spread damage mechanic applies.

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I heard a guy on a wrestling podcast take credit for starting this.

The first two that come to mind in terms of making up for the sheer number disadvantage is Dialga and Palkia, those two don't as much fly as they permanently levitate or move off to pocket dimensions where they're safe, plus time and space powers are about as broken as it gets so if those two can just distort the hell out of the fight and rig it I'm sort of inclined to think the Pokemon could do it.
I'm guessing Deoxys just destroying the planet and everything on it is out of the question so that's my next best though.

Unless PP or some other limit on moves is in effect and eventually the Pokemon will have to start using struggle, then the lions take it.

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That's over 650k lions per Poke.

But Pokes have absolutely shattering moves that could probably take out large chunks at a time.

Tough call.

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SquirtleSkwad posted...

That's over 650k lions per Poke.

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I feel like this whole discussion is being hampered by everyone talking under different rule conditions. The only rules the TC has set forth are:

1. A billion lions vs all 151 Gen 1 Pokemon
2. Gen 8 rules, so the lions will be able to hit the Ghastly family with bite.

By saying gen 8 rules, that makes me assume that this is a strictly a game mechanics discussion. If we got the anime or Pokedex entries into discussion the Pokemon would wipe the floor. Mewtwo can create world-ending storms. Gyarados can destroy whole cities.

If it's a singles or doubles battle the Pokemon can win with my Baton Passing strategy. They would completely heal every turn even with Struggle damage.

If it's all 1 billion lions at once vs all 151 1st gen Pokemon at once it's harder to determine because there isn't a proper game mechanic for this type of fight. The closest thing is a Max Raid battle. In these attacks like Earthquake and surf can hit all Pokemon but the user at once. Combine that with another Pokemon using Quick Guard to prevent quick attack (which is being generous. Pyroar can't learn Quick Attack) and the lions won't even be able to attack. The only way they could win is by having the move Feint, but that's also a move Pyroar can't learn.

Pretty much the only way the lions can win is if either spread attacks can't hit all of the lions at once or if they can use the move Feint.

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