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SuperShake666 04/18/21 7:45:13 PM #52: |
joe40001 posted...
I think like with all things following the science is important. The thing that doesn't exist when it comes to Chiropractors? --- "Look, if I was good at math, I wouldn't be on CE at 2:00 the morning clicking on topics about porn stars ****ing horses." - May 2017, Dash_Harber ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 7:48:35 PM #53: |
Middle hope posted...
Are these videos made by the chiropractor? Do I think such a thing could be theoretically possible in a different context? Yes. Do I think that is what is happening in this or any of his videos, no obviously not. I can't believe you live in a such a crazy world to think it's more logical that these people are hiring world class actors that nobody has ever heard of to produce endless amounts of video (presumably flawlessly adding the adjustment noises in post-production) to advertise their chiropract practice even though many of these people have modest viewership at best an in no way could afford such a production. https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/spinal-manipulation-what-you-need-to-know
I don't get why people are so invested in it. It's not like I'm coming in here saying GOOP IS AMAZING AND EVERYTHING PALTRO SAYS IS RIGHT. But just like some of you smugly believe that everybody chiropractor is a bad faith con artist, and everybody who goes to them blindly is an ignorant fool. Maybe you should challenge your own ignorance more. Most reputable sources don't say there is 0 evidence for chiropractic effectiveness but rather that further study needs to be done and some chiropractic is only minorly or not at all effective. But that's exactly what I'm saying. The ones of you dismissing this out of hand are the ones who are being intellectually disingenuous. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DeadBankerDream 04/18/21 7:53:01 PM #55: |
So let doctors study the effectcs of "spinal manipulation" in safe settings with scientific rigor. Has nothing to do with chiropractors who do no science, no studies that aren't confirmation bias, and who are in absolutely zero ways qualified to provide medical advice or treatment.
--- "That thick shaft that causes women to shudder!" ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 7:56:20 PM #56: |
dolomedes posted...
well if you follow the science, you'll see what everybody here is telling you. SuperShake666 posted... The thing that doesn't exist when it comes to Chiropractors? https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/spinal-manipulation-what-you-need-to-know I look forward to everybody finding an excuse to ignore all this too. I don't see how anybody watches the first videos actually does some research, finds out the scientific community is at "some evidence to support it, but some evidence that it is no better than placebo, even us government and American College of Physicians (ACP) suggests that spinal manipulation is one of a number of therapeutic options that may help people with acute or chronic low-back pain (although the ACP says the quality of the evidence is low)." And people leave going "CLEARLY FAKE NOTHING THERE, WORSE THAN GOOP, WHO CARES IF PEOPLE FEEL BETTER FUCK THEM" Gonstead in particular seems promising so I don't know why people who are pro science want to shut down research into this just to validate their pre-existing opinion. Ask yourself, would it really be so terrible to be wrong and find out that there is actually SOME value to certain chiropractic methods? --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DeadBankerDream 04/18/21 7:59:29 PM #57: |
joe40001 posted...
I look forward to everybody finding an excuse to ignore all this too.Literally an institute that researchs alternative medicine. Hint: Alternative means "not real" --- "That thick shaft that causes women to shudder!" ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Tyranthraxus 04/18/21 8:05:26 PM #58: |
DeadBankerDream posted...
Literally an institute that researchs alternative medicine.As Tim minchin says, "by definition, alternative medicine has not been proved to work or been proved to not work. Do you know what we call Alternative medicine that's been proved to work? Medicine." --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:05:47 PM #59: |
DeadBankerDream posted...
Literally an institute that researchs alternative medicine. alternative The National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health (NCCIH) is a United States government agency which explores complementary and alternative medicine (CAM). NCCIH is one of the 27 institutes and centers that make up the National Institutes of Health (NIH) within the Department of Health and Human Services of the federal government of the United States. So where does the fraud start? --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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FL81 04/18/21 8:06:00 PM #60: |
"Good" chiropractors
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DeadBankerDream 04/18/21 8:06:35 PM #61: |
At the door to the chiropractor's apartment that he pretends is a clinic.
--- "That thick shaft that causes women to shudder!" ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:08:23 PM #62: |
Tyranthraxus posted...
As Tim minchin says, "by definition, alternative medicine has not been proved to work or been proved to not work. Do you know what we call Alternative medicine that's been proved to work? Medicine." And you know what we called medicine before it was proven to work? Alternative medicine. So presumably you'd be on the side of "let's do more science and follow the research in exploring the possible benefits of chiropractic care" rather than the side of "let's plug our fingers in our ears and yell really loud", right? --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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hockeybub89 04/18/21 8:08:45 PM #63: |
joe40001 posted...
Living up to your tag yet again.Go to an actual doctor, bro. Not a quack that is legally obligated to not call their care the medical variety. They're massage therapists that want to play doctor. You have to keep going back exactly because they can't truly help you. It's like how when someone at work asks my pharmacists their recommendation for a homeopathic treatment. They're basically like "lol those aren't real and all their benefits are unverifiable." --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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hockeybub89 04/18/21 8:11:10 PM #64: |
joe40001 posted...
And you know what we called medicine before it was proven to work? Alternative medicine.There's benefits to eating healthy. Doesn't mean a health guru will replace your cardiologist. --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DeadBankerDream 04/18/21 8:11:44 PM #66: |
joe40001 posted...
So presumably you'd be on the side of "let's do more science and follow the research in exploring the possible benefits of chiropractic care"Sounds like a great idea. Not sure why dangerous quacks need to be involved. --- "That thick shaft that causes women to shudder!" ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Tyranthraxus 04/18/21 8:12:00 PM #67: |
joe40001 posted...
And you know what we called medicine before it was proven to work? Alternative medicine. Sure I'd love to do more science. The thing here is that chiropractics aren't new and we've already "science'd" them extensively and have found no evidence whatsoever that they are helpful. You also generally do not pay people for the privilege of practicing science on you. --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:12:54 PM #68: |
DeadBankerDream posted...
At the door to the chiropractor's apartment that he pretends is a clinic. I tagged you as bad faith ages ago and pivots like this where you clearly avoid the question being asked, are why. I'll make it super explicit so there is no wiggle room: Since you are acting like the conclusions of the NCCIH are fraudulent. Are they themselves as an organization fraudulent? If so is the NIH also fraudulant? If so is the department of health and human services also fraudulent? If you are incapable of answering one explicit direct question without a bad faith deflection, this will be the last time I ever respond to you as you clearly would not be a person willing to engage in good faith discussion. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:14:45 PM #69: |
hockeybub89 posted...
There's benefits to eating healthy. Doesn't mean a health guru will replace your cardiologist. Who's saying they would? God I hope you all wouldn't respond to the idea of eating healthy as an alternative medicine with such vitriol. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:16:13 PM #70: |
Tyranthraxus posted...
Sure I'd love to do more science. The thing here is that chiropractics aren't new and we've already "science'd" them extensively and have found no evidence whatsoever that they are helpful. The literal US government: https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/spinal-manipulation-what-you-need-to-know How much of the legwork do I have to do for everybody before people go "ok maybe I was a bit under informed about chiropractic care"? --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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JTilly 04/18/21 8:18:51 PM #71: |
Tc are you a troll or.... plz tell me youre a troll because people that actually have faith in chiropractors are.... nvm
--- WittleJimmyJimmyjumper ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Chicken 04/18/21 8:19:03 PM #72: |
... Copied to Clipboard!
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Tyranthraxus 04/18/21 8:19:25 PM #73: |
joe40001 posted...
The literal US government: Lmfao ![]() Yeah hold on while I adjust my spine to help fight off COVID. --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DeadBankerDream 04/18/21 8:24:43 PM #77: |
joe40001 posted...
Since you are acting like the conclusions of the NCCIH are fraudulent. Are they themselves as an organization fraudulent?Fraudelent is a strong word, but for simplicity's sake, we can use it. Using them as a source without other confirming research institutes backing them up is at best something you shouldn't do if you want to be taken seriously. Obviously you don't want to be taken seriously though, or you wouldn't be behaving the way you do, so that might be a moot point. And no, I don't think any of those other institutions it falls under are "fraudulent" simply through association. --- "That thick shaft that causes women to shudder!" ... Copied to Clipboard!
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hockeybub89 04/18/21 8:27:01 PM #78: |
joe40001 posted...
Who's saying they would?Eating healthy is truly good for you. If someone is suggesting it as alternative to real medicine for real medical problems, rather than friendly advice, then yes I would respond that way. If you want us to do the science on chiropractic, then it should be out of public until we prove it's medicine. Instead, it's been woo woo shit for a very long time. It's telling that they aren't doctors and none of their claims are verified or called medicine. And if cost is an argument, then that means healthcare should be cheaper, not that we should push people to try alternative medicine. --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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markconigliaro 04/18/21 8:27:16 PM #79: |
So I actually did watch the videos, well skim through them, mainly watched the beginning of video 1 and the end of video 2, as TC suggested.
We all know that chiropractors can have short term benefits/relief, even the people against chiro's have admitted that, and that's exactly what I see in the videos. Yes she walks better by the end, but they didn't give an update after some time has passed, they didn't show a new x-ray showing the spine is better. All the videos showed was someone walking a little better directly after an adjustment. It's very likely she was back to her old walk the next day or a few days later. The problem is chiropractors don't actually fix anything. If you think you need to go to a chiropractor, go to physical therapy instead and work with real doctors, then the problem might actually get fixed. Those videos proved absolutely nothing. --- I am a juggler/prop manipulator/fire performer, here's my channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/markconigliaro ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:28:49 PM #80: |
RedWhiteBlue posted...
Joe, that page describes what it is, and why people seek treatment. Not how effective it is. Yes it does, under the section "What are some of the pain conditions for which spinal manipulation has been used?" The listed feelings patients have are literally equal to that of faith healing and 'natural remedies'.Source? And I don't know a single health professional (i.e. Has a degree / m.d. and practicing) who thinks there's any ounce of credibility in chiropractic care. Btw I went to Stony Brook Uni, you'd be laughed off campus if you claimed chiropractors are legit. Well it's unfortunate not a single one would do any research before laughing. Because the research on chiropractic care, is very similar to something like that of acupuncture (are they still laughing at that)? --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:30:13 PM #81: |
For Sciatica
Many noninvasive treatments are available for low-back pain, and these include drugs and nondrug options. In its 2017 clinical guidelines, the American College of Physicians (ACP) suggests that spinal manipulation is one of a number of therapeutic options that may help people with acute or chronic low-back pain (although the ACP says the quality of the evidence is low).
--- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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QueenCarly 04/18/21 8:32:31 PM #83: |
Imagine simping this hard for scam artists
--- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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XxKrazyChaosxX 04/18/21 8:33:37 PM #84: |
I haven't watched Family Guy in years but I came across this clip a few weeks back and it cracked me up.
https://youtu.be/DN8E9H0WlVs --- "I woke up at four am by accident in time for the paper to be delivered. Guess what? It's not a kid on a bike, it's a man in a car." - Kevin Malone ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Chicken 04/18/21 8:33:49 PM #85: |
QueenCarly posted...
Imagine simping this hard for scam artistsIf I were a chiropractor Id be rock fucking hard right now --- May contain bones https://youtu.be/jGbI0P4hh3o ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:36:00 PM #86: |
markconigliaro posted...
So I actually did watch the videos, well skim through them, mainly watched the beginning of video 1 and the end of video 2, as TC suggested. Thank you for at least checking the videos. It is worth noting the videos happen over 3 visits and the biggest changes happen between the sessions and not during them (though the pain relief seems to happen during). For example she went from requiring crutches to not needing them by the start of visit 3. You could attribute that to some faith healer placebo but I don't think she'd be able to manage that level of delusion over the period of several weeks. Finally thank you very much for not claiming that everybody involved is somehow a paid actor or that government agencies are fake. Responding to such things in this topic has been taxing. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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hockeybub89 04/18/21 8:37:30 PM #87: |
joe40001 posted...
is very similar to something like that of acupuncture (are they still laughing at that)?lol acupuncture? Got any essential oils you want to sell me? Someone better tell orthopedists that chiropractors can do their work in less time with less education. They'll feel silly. --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:40:54 PM #89: |
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28399251/
Main outcomes and measures: Pain (measured by either the 100-mm visual analog scale, 11-point numeric rating scale, or other numeric pain scale), function (measured by the 24-point Roland Morris Disability Questionnaire or Oswestry Disability Index [range, 0-100]), or any harms measured within 6 weeks. Findings: Of 26 eligible RCTs identified, 15 RCTs (1711 patients) provided moderate-quality evidence that SMT has a statistically significant association with improvements in pain (pooled mean improvement in the 100-mm visual analog pain scale, -9.95 [95% CI, -15.6 to -4.3]). Twelve RCTs (1381 patients) produced moderate-quality evidence that SMT has a statistically significant association with improvements in function (pooled mean effect size, -0.39 [95% CI, -0.71 to -0.07]). Heterogeneity was not explained by type of clinician performing SMT, type of manipulation, study quality, or whether SMT was given alone or as part of a package of therapies. No RCT reported any serious adverse event. Minor transient adverse events such as increased pain, muscle stiffness, and headache were reported 50% to 67% of the time in large case series of patients treated with SMT. Conclusions and relevance: Among patients with acute low back pain, spinal manipulative therapy was associated with modest improvements in pain and function at up to 6 weeks, with transient minor musculoskeletal harms. However, heterogeneity in study results was large. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Jabodie 04/18/21 8:40:56 PM #90: |
NCCIH, formerly NCCAM, is controversial and has a history of poor credibility and funding substandard research. It seems to have very little credibility in the scientific community.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_for_Complementary_and_Integrative_Health They are essentially a quack science factory, and experts of wasting money. --- <insert sig here> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:45:04 PM #91: |
dolomedes posted...
as her body heals from whatever adjustment he did to her maybe? Why would investigating alternative medicine scientifically be bad? Most of it will be bullshit, but finding out which parts might have something through science seems useful, and being sure the bullshit is bullshit also seems useful. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:46:52 PM #93: |
Tyranthraxus posted...
Lmfao Yeah, there are stupid people out there for sure --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:47:55 PM #94: |
dolomedes posted...
"Acupuncture is a popular alternative protocol. [NCCIH] funding grants for acupuncture over eleven years, 2000 2011, have totaled $78 million (240 grants for fifty-eight clinical trials),with one posted result that published no conclusion on the efficacy of this intervention for depression. In a recent publication in the peer-reviewed medical journal Pain, Ernst et al. (2011) studied the literature since 2000, across all languages, and concluded that numerous systematic reviews have generated little truly convincing evidence that acupuncture is effective in reducing pain. The paper also reported on adverse effects of the protocol." Source? --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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boshafty 04/18/21 8:52:42 PM #98: |
They don't exist. Might as well go to a faith healer or a voodoo doctor.
--- I don't like your opinion so I am going to ignore you and then tattle tale on you to the mods. PSN boshafty1 https://psnprofiles.com/boshafty1 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Chicken 04/18/21 8:54:23 PM #99: |
might become a chiropractor so I can jerk off to this thread.
not like itd be difficult. --- May contain bones https://youtu.be/jGbI0P4hh3o ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 04/18/21 8:55:20 PM #100: |
Jabodie posted...
NCCIH, formerly NCCAM, is controversial and has a history of poor credibility and funding substandard research. It seems to have very little credibility in the scientific community. I agree it looks like they are wasting a lot of money, but it's also worth noting that none of their investigations into the efficacy of bullshit made any claims that any of the bullshit was effective. Furthermore (I could be wrong) I do not believe the studies I just listed that I got from their website were done by them. So take this for example: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28399251/ Findings: Of 26 eligible RCTs identified, 15 RCTs (1711 patients) provided moderate-quality evidence that SMT has a statistically significant association with improvements in pain (pooled mean improvement in the 100-mm visual analog pain scale, -9.95 [95% CI, -15.6 to -4.3]). Twelve RCTs (1381 patients) produced moderate-quality evidence that SMT has a statistically significant association with improvements in function (pooled mean effect size, -0.39 [95% CI, -0.71 to -0.07]). Heterogeneity was not explained by type of clinician performing SMT, type of manipulation, study quality, or whether SMT was given alone or as part of a package of therapies. No RCT reported any serious adverse event. Minor transient adverse events such as increased pain, muscle stiffness, and headache were reported 50% to 67% of the time in large case series of patients treated with SMT. This is from The Journal of the American Medical Association (a peer-reviewed medical journal) --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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hockeybub89 04/18/21 8:56:46 PM #101: |
joe40001 posted...
Why would investigating alternative medicine scientifically be bad? Most of it will be bullshit, but finding out which parts might have something through science seems useful, and being sure the bullshit is bullshit also seems useful.You don't do science by treating millions of people with something for a number of decades and then trying to prove that it's just as real as actual medicine. It should not exist as an option until it is proven to be medicine. Alternative medicine should not an industry. Would you support a drug company releasing a new medication publicly before it was even tested or approved? --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
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