Current Events > This guy's argument against universal healthcare.

(+) Yeah! (+)

What about all the Americans who would pay into the system in one way or another, but never truly benefited from it?

For example, I'm a 54 year old male. I have had periods in my life where I haven't seen a doctor at least 5 years, probably 10. In my adult life, the most expensive medical issue I've ever had is kidney stones. With insurance that cost me less than a few hundred bucks. Without insurance, it would have likely been under $5,000; definitely under $10,000.

So if we had implemented National Healthcare 35 years ago, I would have spent the past 35 years paying into it while still sitting around waiting for my "opportunity" to benefit from it. [Which is really no different than paying into health insurance all those years and never "cashing in"].

Yes, I could get cancer tomorrow and suddenly get that opportunity to take advantage of either National Healthcare or Insurance. But there are a lot of people who would never have that "opportunity". Especially if we're considering the current system where Medicare starts at age 62 (or is it 65?), and it's after that age when historically healthy people start really having excessive healthcare costs.

**EDIT:** **People. People. I asked a clarifying question. I'm not even opposed to national healthcare. I'm fine with it, although I'm not going to spend a bunch of time and energy advocating for it either. So no need to tell me about how society is about helping those less fortunate that you. Yep. That's fine. But it has nothing to do with the OP's view that people who oppose national healthcare will change their tune once they benefit from it.**

**EDIT 2 to bold the whole damn thing since people are still ignoring it**

lol
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Like I havent been to a Dr in a decade but I've still been paying in to my work plan. Its not like you get to pick and choose when to start/stop paying. Also not having to try and figure out which dr is in network vs preferred vs where I live would be much simpler on a government plan.

It always surprising me how people don't understand how insurance fundamentally works.

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Privatized healthcare is a scam and nobody is benefiting from it!

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Flockaveli posted...

Privatized healthcare is a scam and nobody is benefiting from it!

if no one was benefitting from it, it wouldn't exist it its current form

He just described insurance.

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COVxy posted...

It always surprising me how people don't understand how insurance fundamentally works.

can you explain what people don't get?

Fam_Fam posted...

can you explain what people don't get?

He described the exact purpose of insurance. People who are not currently using the resource but paying into it subsidizing those who are using it.

That's how it works.

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Fam_Fam posted...

COVxy posted...

It always surprising me how people don't understand how insurance fundamentally works.

can you explain what people don't get?

Quite literally all of it, but in this case the OP describes how insurance works.

It spreads out the costs and healthy people subsidize unhealthy people.
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Does he know that my insurance premiums are so high because fat old unhealthy people are going to the doctor constantly, even though I'm perfectly healthy and only go for routine checkups?
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i'm 33 years old and haven't been to school for decades, called the cops, or firemen. why should i pay taxes towards something i don't benefit from?

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Crono99 posted...

Private insurance vs universal healthcare is just one aspect of the problem though. Even if you have universal healthcare, someone has to pay for that healthcare. The only difference is who pays.

Perhaps a bigger problem is the way that those costs have been allowed to spiral completely out of control. Many procedures and tests in the US have costs that are several times higher than in other countries. Drug prices are also extremely high.

This is more my take on it. Even if the government foots the bill instead, it's still a big problem because a doctor's visit shouldn't be costing hundreds of dollars. A procedure shouldn't be costing tens of thousands. They need to find a way to bring down the costs, not just transfer it.

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lilORANG posted...

Does he know that my insurance premiums are so high because fat old unhealthy people are going to the doctor constantly, even though I'm perfectly healthy and only go for routine checkups?

Old people wouldn't have anything to do with the premiums on your policy. They would have medicare and either a Medsup or MAPD, and their cost calculation is completely separate than an individual or group plan.
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Muh muh muh taxes!

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COVxy posted...

He described the exact purpose of insurance. People who are not currently using the resource but paying into it subsidizing those who are using it.

That's how it works.

so it's the same thing as universal healthcare, and he's saying he's essentially against both

Fam_Fam posted...

COVxy posted...

He described the exact purpose of insurance. People who are not currently using the resource but paying into it subsidizing those who are using it.

That's how it works.

so it's the same thing as universal healthcare, and he's saying he's essentially against both

Well no. He seems to think that's not how insurance works.
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I mean he isn't totally wrong.

Things are more expensive because people go to the ER for a hang nail, yes. It's also expensive because people let them selves get super fat and never go to a doctor and now 30 years later they are having a lot of issues.

But it's ALSO expensive because people don't go for their checkups, or get their yearly bloodwork done because A) it's expensive if not billed correctly B) if it isn't billed correctly (which happens a lot) you're on the phone for hours trying to fix it. It's people not getting checked up for that stomachache that's been going on for a day or three too long. It's people who can't afford the 50 dollar specialist copay right now and should probably have that mole checked out. THESE can and do lead to more expensive issues down the road too. And THESE are the people I worry about.

Not the genetic freak who has only ever had one issue.

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harley2280 posted...

Well no. He seems to think that's not how insurance works.

where did you get that from? he didn't say a word about insurance. his post is about what he doesn't like about universal healthcare and why he doesn't support that system.

Fuck you, got mine is never a good argument against universal healthcare, education, welfare, UBI, health and safety standards, etc. literally never. Thats something Americans need to learn

I'm never going to get sick or die. Why should I pay for your healthcare costs?

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Kloe_Rinz posted...

Fuck you, got mine is never a good argument against universal healthcare, education, welfare, UBI, health and safety standards, etc. literally never. Thats something Americans need to learn

The argument in the OP is more like "I might never get mine so fuck you", which is still an awful mindset.

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harley2280 posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

COVxy posted...

He described the exact purpose of insurance. People who are not currently using the resource but paying into it subsidizing those who are using it.

That's how it works.

so it's the same thing as universal healthcare, and he's saying he's essentially against both

Well no. He seems to think that's not how insurance works.

He makes a comparison to how it only costs him a few hundred bucks with his insurance and he thinks that's much better than paying into something he wouldn't be using.

Which is actually the exact same thing he's doing with insurance, but he's not accounting for his monthly premium (which is probably subsidized by his employer).
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I can get behind this for car insurance. Literally charging individuals more that have never made a claim then those who have made several. Usually the prices are based off discriminatory factors. You really don't have an opportunity to ever see all the money you invested.

harley2280 posted...

He makes a comparison to how it only costs him a few hundred bucks with his insurance and he thinks that's much better than paying into something he wouldn't be using.

Which is actually the exact same thing he's doing with insurance, but he's not accounting for his monthly premium (which is probably subsidized by his employer).

again, it is possible to not like universal health care, and current insurance premiums. perhaps he likes that his insurance is subsidized by his employer, rather than being generated entirely through taxes

Wasssup Now posted...

I can get behind this for car insurance. Literally charging individuals more that have never made a claim then those who have made several. Usually the prices are based off discriminatory factors. You really don't have an opportunity to ever see all the money you invested.

yeah no shit. that's why there's an insurance business. they are making money off of people who pay for insurance, but who don't file claims.

Fam_Fam posted...

harley2280 posted...

He makes a comparison to how it only costs him a few hundred bucks with his insurance and he thinks that's much better than paying into something he wouldn't be using.

Which is actually the exact same thing he's doing with insurance, but he's not accounting for his monthly premium (which is probably subsidized by his employer).

again, it is possible to not like universal health care, and current insurance premiums. perhaps he likes that his insurance is subsidized by his employer, rather than being generated entirely through taxes

Except that's not what he said.
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harley2280 posted...

Except that's not what he said.

What did he say about insurance, then?

Fam_Fam posted...

if no one was benefitting from it, it wouldn't exist it its current form

It only exists in countries that take advantage of their citizens.

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Ilishe posted...

It only exists in countries that take advantage of their citizens.

and therein we see who benefits from it

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Fuck you, got mine is never a good argument against universal healthcare, education, welfare, UBI, health and safety standards, etc. literally never. Thats something Americans need to learn

It is when said person only cares about themselves. Which is pretty common in a country that values individuality above most other things.

And any who think otherwise are probabaly just on the losing end of it all.

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Fam_Fam posted...

harley2280 posted...

Except that's not what he said.

What did he say about insurance, then?

Okay so we're just talking in circles here.
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harley2280 posted...

Okay so we're just talking in circles here.

Yes, I could get cancer tomorrow and suddenly get that opportunity to take advantage of either National Healthcare or Insurance. But there are a lot of people who would never have that "opportunity".

he is speaking out against both. not saying insurance is better than universal healthcare. he's saying UH is bad and he does not support it, not that his description differentiates UH from current insurance.

Its valid. Some people just dont like the system

Doesn't mean it's a wise thing to do

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