Current Events > Apple versus Epic Games. Here comes the big daddy lawsuits

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https://twitter.com/search?q=%22Epic%20Games%22&src=trend_click&pt=1389214507474563072&vertical=trends

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What reason would anyone have to side with Apple on this?

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Apple. Fuck Epic

Epic.

No reason Apple should get a cut of in-App purchases, only the initial purchase of an App.

Robot2600 posted...

No reason Apple should get a cut of in-App purchases, only the initial purchase of an App.

Fortnite is Free-to-play.

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Why does Apple get singled out on this when you have Sony having a monopoly on the PSN store, and Microsoft having a monopoly on the Xbox store?

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Pitlord_Special posted...

Why does Apple get singled out on this when you have Sony having a monopoly on the PSN store, and Microsoft having a monopoly on the Xbox store?

Because nobody has the resources to sue Apple+Sony+Microsoft at the same time. If Epic can beat Apple, they'll beat everyone.

Ricemills posted...

Fortnite is Free-to-play

So apple gets nothing or fortnite on apple costs 20 bucks or w/e.

Whoever wins, we lose.

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hope the both waste a metric fuck ton of money on this.

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Pitlord_Special posted...

Why does Apple get singled out on this when you have Sony having a monopoly on the PSN store, and Microsoft having a monopoly on the Xbox store?

I think it's because Apple blocked the Epic app when they didn't want to give Apple a cut of the money

but anyway, it's Apple's app to do what they want with so I don't see how the lawsuit has merit.

surely Epic has enough money to advertise and distribute its own game

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Robot2600 posted...

So apple gets nothing or fortnite on apple costs 20 bucks or w/e.

sure, but remove all in-app purchases.

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Proto_Spark posted...

Because nobody has the resources to sue Apple+Sony+Microsoft at the same time. If Epic can beat Apple, they'll beat everyone.

isn't steam the same way?

but yea apple has the highest worth so if they beat them then the others will fall.

they also sued Google for the exact same thing, but idk why everyone only focused on Apple's.
Fortnite was removed by both Apple and Google from their appstores for the same reason.

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creativeme posted...

isn't steam the same way?

but yea apple has the highest worth so if they beat them then the others will fall.

I don't think Steam would apply here, because they aren't the only option to play a game on PC. You can get a DRM-free version of the game, use a different launcher, or even go old-school and play via a CD_ROM or something.

These don't apply on, say, an IOS device (and in the same vein, PS and Xbox) where the company in charge of the software has 100% of the control over what goes on their platform, and can use that as leverage over smaller developers.

Ricemills posted...

they also sued Google for the exact same thing, but idk why everyone only focused on Apple's.
Fortnite was removed by both Apple and Google from their appstores for the same reason.

Probably because the Google case is less interesting. Google doesn't really have a case (and really, neither does Epic) because Epic has always been able to just publish their apk for android programs, whereas the Apple case involves Apple being way more anti-consumer (and almost definitely breaks some anti-trust laws here)

I hate Apple, but is closed platform. If Epic wants to be on it , they have to play by their rules.

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Ricemills posted...

they also sued Google for the exact same thing, but idk why everyone only focused on Apple's.
Fortnite was removed by both Apple and Google from their appstores for the same reason.

You can always just download it anyway on Android. Apple doesn't allow you to.

An Epic win here would be a major step in progress and tearing down walled gardens.

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i find it funny that people called a company who fight for their right to squeeze money from the players with microtransactions as "pro consumer".

this is not good vs bad, but corporate vs corporate.

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Ricemills posted...

i find it funny that people called a company who fight for their right to squeeze money from the players with microtransactions as "pro consumer".

this is not good vs bad, but corporate vs corporate.

It's easier to choose to just not play fortnite than it is to choose to just not use a phone. Epic winning is the most good. Besides Apple is much fucking worse for consumers in general.

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Ricemills posted...

i find it funny that people called a company who fight for their right to squeeze money from the players with microtransactions as "pro consumer".

this is not good vs bad, but corporate vs corporate.

Its less of "Epic is a good guy here" so much as "everyone sucks, but Epic happens to be on the pro-consumer side of this argument for their own goals"

if Epic's argument was to lower the price for the consumer, they can you know, just lower the price.
but they didn't, they want the same profit while removing the platform owner's cut.

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Where's the option for hoping both companies slide into the ocean? Apple isn't the good guy here an epic is far from the altruist defender of the mighty indie.

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M_Live posted...

Honestly, idk if I have an opinion on this. I'd like to side with the creators having control over their works & profits of said works (this being Epic), but Apple is giving a platform for their app to be hosted & in turn its fair for them to profit off of it. It's kind of like streaming services with music, isn't it? I guess the grey area comes in that there's literally no alternative to the app store on an Apple device.

That's the crux of the issue here and that's why this is an anti trust suit

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Ricemills posted...

i find it funny that people called a company who fight for their right to squeeze money from the players with microtransactions as "pro consumer".

this is not good vs bad, but corporate vs corporate.

Fortnite and Rocket league are not Pay to win. All transactions are for cosmetic items only.

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Awesker002 posted...

Fortnite and Rocket league are not Pay to win. All transactions are for cosmetic items only.

He didn't say anything about pay to win

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Epic mobile app store incoming, followed by EA, Uplay, GOG, Microsoft, Blizzard, ect. Must create an account and launch their store before using their apps.

Ricemills posted...

if Epic's argument was to lower the price for the consumer, they can you know, just lower the price.
but they didn't, they want the same profit while removing the platform owner's cut.

Uh, they did lower the prices when they had the option for you to buy direct from them without Apple/Google getting a cut.

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Apple can go fuck itself for a myriad of reasons.

Epic is the lesser of two evils by far.

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Bandit_Keith posted...

Uh, they did lower the prices when they had the option for you to buy direct from them without Apple/Google getting a cut.

waaay missed the point buddy.
if their purpose is to lower the price, then do it while apple still get their cut. lower all the in-app purchases if they really care about the consumer.
they only want the profit for themselves without sharing any cuts.


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Don't know, don't care.

Will this possibly affect me in any way, someone who doesn't play Fortnite and doesn't own Apple products?

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They're both terrible, but Epic has done some shady shit during this lawsuit so I hope Apple wins

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I don't really care to defend either side, but there's no reason to think Apple won't win this.

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Guide posted...

What reason would anyone have to side with Apple on this?

Because they did nothing wrong.

at the end of the day its just two soulless corporations battling it out to earn more money. But one of them broke a contract and the other didnt.

thronedfire2 posted...

I think it's because Apple blocked the Epic app when they didn't want to give Apple a cut of the money

but anyway, it's Apple's app to do what they want with so I don't see how the lawsuit has merit.

surely Epic has enough money to advertise and distribute its own game

Because Apple is abusing their position of power that they have from such a massive share of the marketplace. Although the lawsuit against Google is going to be much juicier, because Google actually has a few monopoly elements in playmaker than just harsh requirements.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Because they did nothing wrong.

at the end of the day its just two soulless corporations battling it out to earn more money. But one of them broke a contract and the other didnt.

Apple took a massive share of the smartphone market and then used their lion's share to force other companies to bow to their whim. Apple has done a LOT wrong, and in this specific case Epic has the moral high ground. That's how you know how bad Apple has fucked up.

RadiantJoyrock posted...

Apple took a massive share of the smartphone market and then used their lion's share to force other companies to bow to their whim. Apple has done a LOT wrong, and in this specific case Epic has the moral high ground. That's how you know how bad Apple has fucked up.

Epic doesnt have the moral high ground. They are a soulless corporation exploiting the legal system to try and earn more money from what should have been a simple business agreement.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Epic doesnt have the moral high ground. They are a soulless corporation exploiting the legal system to try and earn more money from what should have been a simple business agreement.

They aren't exploiting anything. The laws they're using were designed for things like this. Epic is a shady as fuck company for sure, but in this specific instance they are absolutely in the right.

RadiantJoyrock posted...

They aren't exploiting anything. The laws they're using were designed for things like this. Epic is a shady as fuck company for sure, but in this specific instance they are absolutely in the right.

the legal system was designed to punish companies like epic for breaking contracts in the way epic did.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

the legal system was designed to punish companies like epic for breaking contracts in the way epic did.

not as a replacement for a standard business discussion like what epic is trying to exploit it for

It isn't standard business discussion when one of the parties is engaged in anti-trust activities that actively harm the consumer.
Kloe_Rinz posted...

Epic doesnt have the moral high ground. They are a soulless corporation exploiting the legal system to try and earn more money from what should have been a simple business agreement.

Epic definitely isn't looking out for anything beyond their own bottom line, it just so happens that their bottom line in this situation happens to benefit the consumer also.

Apple is the lesser of the two evils

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Proto_Spark posted...

It isn't standard business discussion when one of the parties is engaged in anti-trust activities that actively harm the consumer.

Youre trying too hard to defend epic here. Apples cut is 30% which is industry standard. Epic wants to pay less, which is a typical business discussion. They are bogging up the legal system with shit.

Proto_Spark posted...

Epic definitely isn't looking out for anything beyond their own bottom line, it just so happens that their bottom line in this situation happens to benefit the consumer also.

a select few customers of epics, and only if epic permanently lowers their prices which they wont.

Apple is legally in the right from what I remember. Whether their practices need to be changed is a separate issue from whether they have the right to force people to pay certain percentages on their platform. Epic can go make its own phone if they care so much about being able to directly gouge their playerbase.

nemu posted...

Apple is legally in the right from what I remember. Whether their practices need to be changed is a separate issue from whether they have the right to force people to pay certain percentages on their platform. Epic can go make its own phone if they care so much about being able to directly gouge their playerbase.

They're not legally in the right if Epic successfully argues anti trust.

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Would be funny to see Apple & Google DP Epic

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I'm on the side of "fuck 'em both"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v96QyJczIi4

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iPhone_7 posted...

Would be funny to see Apple & Google DP Epic

This is probably a fight that Google wants to duck out of because the consequences for losing are going to be dire for Google.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

This is probably a fight that Google wants to duck out of because the consequences for losing are going to be dire for Google.

But Epic is also suing Google

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iPhone_7 posted...

But Epic is also suing Google

Depending on how the case goes against Apple Google may seek to settle before something horrible happens.

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