Current Events > Persona is the only series with no bad games

(+) Yeah! (+)

ArianaGrandSlam posted...

also that wouldn't make it inherently a bad game because dated does not equal bad and MGS1 is still an exemplar of that specific style of stealth gameplay and I would absolutely play a new release that's designed within that gameplay system because that gameplay system was incredibly fucking fun (as long as it's designed properly around it and you don't end up with intial-release-MGS3 where they were overstretching it)

so no, your whole premise is wrong, and the answer is still "you didn't like it" and not "it is a bad game"

my point is that, if the MGS series never improved on the formula in any meaningful way, and still played like a PSX game on the PS4, it's not gameplay that I would consider to be good, in relation to all of the advancements in gameplay engines that have happened throughout the years and when compared to the mechanics of its contemporaries.

so, if I feel like a game's mechanics aren't good, especially in relation to what I've experienced, and if I don't think any other area of it is good, either, outside of its music/presentation, then it's feasible that I consider the game to be bad, right, and not just me not liking it?

I'm not saying that my view is objective or absolute, so idk why you're having such an issue with it

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So many shit opinions here

2 is best

1 is bad tho

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almost everyone agrees persona 1 is bad so this definitely isn't true

that said, if you think persona 2, 3, and 4 are good but don't like 5 you are a fucking joke.

ArianaGrandSlam posted...

the point is that it's fun for people and people like it

I don't need to use 9 grain wheat in my sandwich just because it's different from the ciabatta bread I've been enjoying for years, sometimes I just want a sandwich on ciabatta bread

I love Yakuza 7 probably even more than Persona 5 and all of this stuff is near-useless and sometimes works to the detriment of the system, going to attack an enemy that's weak to slash damage and picking up a garbage can to deal blunt damage is a pisser, for one. Your ally's positioning 90% of the time means you have to wait an extra 10 seconds for Nanba to get off his first attack because he's 3 blocks back. And everyone shuffles around so much that there's no strategy involved in getting off AoE attacks because it's still essentially the same dice role as in any RPG whether they'll hit or not. These things really offer so little improvement to the game for the amount of extra time wasted that they add on to every turn and I got very sick of the positioning ruining my planning for the attack. The amout of time waiting for someone to catch up or having an enemy move just out of range was just as much as any benefit from my teammate doing a follow up attack which can also just occur naturally in any menu-based RPG anyway.

what I'm saying is - at least there feels like there's some involved thought in switching things up a little.

if I'm playing a new Persona and it feels like the previous Persona, what I'm paying for is a new story and characters, right?

if I felt that the mechanics were good/fun/fresh, it could have justified me playing through I story I didn't like.

if I felt that the story was good, I could have justified a retread of the almost mostly same mechanics that experienced more than 15 years ago, iirc.

but the game had neither of that.

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there is almost zero similarity outside of the basic structure of the game between persona 5, 4, and 3. the themes, characters, tone, mechanics, setting etc is all totally different. it's like complaining ff9 was too much like ff8 because they used the atb, world map, etc. again even though those games are incredibly distinct and dissimilar.

ArianaGrandSlam posted...

but the characters are bad because I'm older now and don't relate to them

not relating to characters doesn't make them bad. it might make them less enjoyable to you, if what you want is to relate to the characters, but if I was expecting to relate to video game characters to enjoy the games it would SEVERELY limit my enjoyment to almost nothing. what video game characters are you relating to? my life is nothing like any game I have ever played.

ArianaGrandSlam posted...

but the characters are bad because I'm older now and don't relate to them

I absolutely cannot even begin to relate to what you're saying because I just think that if a game is good and fun to play then a game is good and fun to play no matter what year it is or what anyone else is doing. I don't give a shit what Splinter Cell or Thief or Assassin's Creed is doing when I sit down to play Metal Gear, I care about what Metal Gear is doing and if it's doing it well. If it's not doing it well, then there's a problem.

what else am I supposed to do on this board

no need to be mean

edit: didn't know it would add your edited post.

the issue is that I don't think the gameplay is good/fun, though.

if I'm just scrolling, using a menu, I might as well be playing a light novel or adventure game.

fuming posted...

there is almost zero similarity outside of the basic structure of the game between persona 5, 4, and 3. the themes, characters, tone, mechanics, setting etc is all totally different. it's like complaining ff9 was too much like ff8 because they used the atb, world map, etc. again even though those games are incredibly distinct and dissimilar.

so am I wrong, and as far as combat goes, P5 doesn't follow the same structure as P3 & P4 -> menu -> attack -> find out weakness -> exploit (including healing, defenses, buffs/debuffs, team attacks, and stuff like that)

because I should have specified that I was talking about combat mechanics.

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g0ldie posted...

anyway, my point was that it wasn't just because it was turn-based that I felt it was dated, but because mechanically, it feels like P3 and P4 for the most part with no real notable changes (I guess I should say P4 because you can control your party in that).

i think i will have to respond to yo another day? because compared to p3 and p4 there are a lot changes. and yes. the changes still mean its turn based. again, there are people that play games that like turn based! i know. its crazy. not literally every gamer in the world fell into the realistc graphics idc about gameplay ideal.

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i would literally stop gaming entirely if turn based games weren't a thing lol I just don't have the brain for action stuff.

Persona 5 didnt really change the core mechanics, but it did add things like baton passing, and generally expanded the options the player has each turn. This can lead to more dynamic battles.

Theres also the dungeons themselves, which for the first time in franchise history dont suck ass and encourage the player to camp/grind near a boss door or teleporter>_>

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To be fair, it's absolutely possible for a great game to have dated controls. Sometimes, a throwback game will refuse to modernize annoying aspects of an aged gameplay system and it impedes the entire product.

I don't think Persona 5 is one of those games.

Granted, I fucking hate the pyramid Palace and I'm not fond of the spaceship palace either. But the gameplay is fine. I never bought into the Squeenix ethos of "turn-based combat is dead", Persona 5 is proof that a classic JRPG system can be just as fun as contemporaries who want to move onto action RPGs with the right coat of paint.

Like I think it's undeniable that Persona 5 is slick, modern and stylish, even compared to prior games like Persona 3 which featured similar game mechanics beforehand. I don't think adhering to a strict JRPG battle system - with new features like the gun system - is a failure of the medium. I think it's a triumph, in that it's such an enjoyable product within a genre that other companies have tried to forcibly kill by moving forward with action RPG elements.

If you see those elements as true progress and turn-based combat as archaic and unenjoyable, then that's a personal preference on your part. Persona 5 is a fantastic game that succeeds at pretty much it sets out to do, and I think it's stupid to lambast it as a failure mired in the past.

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MrMallard posted...

Like I think it's undeniable that Persona 5 is slick, modern and stylish, even compared to prior games like Persona 3 which featured similar game mechanics beforehand. I don't think adhering to a strict JRPG battle system - with new features like the gun system - is a failure of the medium. I think it's a triumph, in that it's such an enjoyable product within a genre that other companies have tried to forcibly kill by moving forward with action RPG elements.

If you see those elements as true progress and turn-based combat as archaic and unenjoyable, then that's a personal preference on your part. Persona 5 is a fantastic game that succeeds at pretty much it sets out to do, and I think it's stupid to lambast it as a failure mired in the past.

in the end, I feel like this all relies on how you feel all of the game's different elements come together.

like I said, I didn't enjoy its story/characters, for example, so I doubt that improved (as I view them) mechanics would have had me thinking that it was a fantastic game, but I would have appreciated the effort.

and unlike you, I didn't find my experience with the game to be enjoyable, so you can at least see how I personally wouldn't call it a "triumph", because why would I? plus, if I enjoyed the game, it would be in spite of its mechanics, not because of them.

anyway, I wasn't saying that it should have action-rpg elements, I was saying that there should be something to add to the formula that isn't just some new move, or something.

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That's fair enough. If you didn't enjoy the game, you didn't enjoy the game.

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modern jrpg fans wanting every game to have shitty kingdom hearts combat in every game is miserable

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smt fans think that "hit weakness" is the hottest fucking shit, and that getting an extra turn (to deal more damage) on top of already getting bonus damage is somehow the most innovative thing ever

ArianaGrandSlam posted...

wow its almost like that very first post that said sounds like you dont like turn based RPGs was 100% on the money and all this back and forth has been entirely fruitless when that statement was true the whole time!

no, it means that I don't like P5's mechanics.

seeing as how P5, or even the the rest of Persona/SMT, don't represent all turn-based RPG gameplay, idk why people keep saying this, lol.

if I said I don't like gameplay of any of the Street Fighters, does that have to mean that I don't enjoy the gameplay of other fighters?

it's possible, but it's not something that someone should assume. at least, that's how I feel.

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ultimate reaver posted...

modern jrpg fans wanting every game to have shitty kingdom hearts combat in every game is miserable

hope you're not talking about me, because I didn't say anything to suggest that.

plus, the only action-RPG that I like is Automata.

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ArianaGrandSlam posted...

because thats literally what 90% of the genre is exactly

maybe 90% of JRPGs, but since the only turn-based JRPGs that I've ever played were: the Personas, Nocturne, Lunar Legend, and Chrono Trigger, I can't really do anything to dispute that claim.

ArianaGrandSlam posted...

no its more like you saying hmmm idk Mortal Kombat is still an archaic 2D fighter it would inherently be better if it was 3D because things need to change or theyre not making any improvements and then were at a junction where someone has to actively pretend MKvDCU is better than MK9 because it does newer things

tbh, I was just using the fighting games thing as an example while not knowing anything about fighting games, so I dunno what to make of this.

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What do you guys think about Digital Devil Saga? Thinking about playing that soon

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MaxEffingBemis posted...

What do you guys think about Digital Devil Saga? Thinking about playing that soon

When I played it it was too hard for me and I was 26 years old.

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MaxEffingBemis posted...

What do you guys think about Digital Devil Saga? Thinking about playing that soon

Pretty good games, good music and fun battles. There's two games in the series and both are worth it imo. Underrated little series they did.

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Dancing 3 and 5 seem to be mostly cash grabs. I suppose I wouldn't call them "bad" though, just mediocre.

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Forza Horizon series (4 games)

85, 86, 91 and 92 on Metacritic
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4 is probably the worst of the dancing games somehow, yeah, but none are bad games. Its not my favorite genre but they are fun for awhile.

Persona 5 is fun to play but fuck the story and characters are boring. And morgana can get bent

Supreme Commander

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