Current Events > The thing about "believe women" that people don't get

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pinky0926 05/19/21 7:58:59 AM #1:	Spicy topic time. It's not about saying "forget the law, let's just lock the guy up without a fair trial." When you believe women, you're just opening the door to investigation. If a woman says she's been raped, and you believe her, that provides a platform on which truth can actually have a chance to out. She might have a tiny bit of support and encouragement to pursue some actual legal recourse. You want the fair trial, right? So let's encourage the trial. You believing her story won't affect the legal outcome even remotely. On the other hand, when you shrug your shoulders, say "who's to say, people lie all the time", and create an environment that sets up any genuine victim as a suspect, you shut down any pathway to truth. Hypothetical situation: the victim really is a victim. The alleged rapist is really the rapist. Now that victim comes to you and says "this happened". They're scared, they're looking for support. You shrug your shoulders and say you can't help. Who's going to look for actual justice when they can't even get someone to take the story seriously? An alleged victim - whether they're really the victim or a liar - wouldn't pursue a pathway that is shut down before it's even an option. Ultimately, everyone wants the same thing - the victim should get justice and the perpetrator gets the law. One avenue allows that, the other one shuts it down. . So, believe women AND say you want the fair trial. Taking emotion out of it, it's the most practical pathway to truth. --- CE's Resident Scotsman. https://imgur.com/ILz2ZbV <cite>pinky0926 posted [p:954068095] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>Spicy topic time. It's not about saying "forget the law, let's just lock the guy up without a fair trial." When you believe women, you're just opening the door to investigation. If a woman says she's been raped, and you believe her, that provides a platform on which truth can actually have a chance to out. She might have a tiny bit of support and encouragement to pursue some actual legal recourse. You want the fair trial, right? So let's encourage the trial. You believing her story won't affect the legal outcome even remotely. On the other hand, when you shrug your shoulders, say "who's to say, people lie all the time", and create an environment that sets up any genuine victim as a suspect, you shut down any pathway to truth. Hypothetical situation: the victim really is a victim. The alleged rapist is really the rapist. Now that victim comes to you and says "this happened". They're scared, they're looking for support. You shrug your shoulders and say you can't help. Who's going to look for actual justice when they can't even get someone to take the story seriously? An alleged victim - whether they're really the victim or a liar - wouldn't pursue a pathway that is shut down before it's even an option. Ultimately, everyone wants the same thing - the victim should get justice and the perpetrator gets the law. One avenue allows that, the other one shuts it down. . So, believe women AND say you want the fair trial. Taking emotion out of it, it's the most practical pathway to truth. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zombified_Toast 05/19/21 8:04:24 AM #2:	pinky0926 posted... Spicy topic time. It's not about saying "forget the law, let's just lock the guy up without a fair trial." When you believe women, you're just opening the door to investigation. If a woman says she's been raped, and you believe her, that provides a platform on which truth can actually have a chance to out. She might have a tiny bit of support and encouragement to pursue some actual legal recourse. You want the fair trial, right? So let's encourage the trial. You believing her story won't affect the legal outcome even remotely. On the other hand, when you shrug your shoulders, say "who's to say, people lie all the time", and create an environment that sets up any genuine victim as a suspect, you shut down any pathway to truth. Hypothetical situation: the victim really is a victim. The alleged rapist is really the rapist. Now that victim comes to you and says "this happened". They're scared, they're looking for support. You shrug your shoulders and say you can't help. Who's going to look for actual justice when they can't even get someone to take the story seriously? An alleged victim - whether they're really the victim or a liar - wouldn't pursue a pathway that is shut down before it's even an option. Ultimately, everyone wants the same thing - the victim should get justice and the perpetrator gets the law. One avenue allows that, the other one shuts it down. . So, believe women AND say you want the fair trial. Taking emotion out of it, it's the most practical pathway to truth. Yeah... in a perfect world... --- stant447 - So suicide is illegal. But smoking is not? I'm allowed to passively kill myself, but not actively? Transmutant - Just as long as you die I'm happy. <cite>Zombified_Toast posted [p:954068177] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>pinky0926 posted... </cite> <quote>Spicy topic time. It's not about saying "forget the law, let's just lock the guy up without a fair trial." When you believe women, you're just opening the door to investigation. If a woman says she's been raped, and you believe her, that provides a platform on which truth can actually have a chance to out. She might have a tiny bit of support and encouragement to pursue some actual legal recourse. You want the fair trial, right? So let's encourage the trial. You believing her story won't affect the legal outcome even remotely. On the other hand, when you shrug your shoulders, say "who's to say, people lie all the time", and create an environment that sets up any genuine victim as a suspect, you shut down any pathway to truth. Hypothetical situation: the victim really is a victim. The alleged rapist is really the rapist. Now that victim comes to you and says "this happened". They're scared, they're looking for support. You shrug your shoulders and say you can't help. Who's going to look for actual justice when they can't even get someone to take the story seriously? An alleged victim - whether they're really the victim or a liar - wouldn't pursue a pathway that is shut down before it's even an option. Ultimately, everyone wants the same thing - the victim should get justice and the perpetrator gets the law. One avenue allows that, the other one shuts it down. . So, believe women AND say you want the fair trial. Taking emotion out of it, it's the most practical pathway to truth.</quote> Yeah... in a perfect world... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 05/19/21 8:04:42 AM #3:	But pinky. What if I have a single anecdotal case of a woman lying? --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:954068183] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>But pinky. What if I have a single anecdotal case of a woman lying? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Trent 05/19/21 8:05:10 AM #4:	I have to believe them AND respect them? Like, at the same fuckin time? --- i swear to God most of y'all cats just don't know The Trent you barely know yourself so i guess most of y'all should be offended <cite>The Trent posted [p:954068187] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>I have to believe them AND respect them? Like, at the same fuckin time? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jagr_68 05/19/21 8:07:05 AM #5:	pinky0926 posted... Spicy topic time. It's not about saying "forget the law, let's just lock the guy up without a fair trial." When you believe women, you're just opening the door to investigation. If a woman says she's been raped, and you believe her, that provides a platform on which truth can actually have a chance to out. She might have a tiny bit of support and encouragement to pursue some actual legal recourse. You want the fair trial, right? So let's encourage the trial. You believing her story won't affect the legal outcome even remotely. On the other hand, when you shrug your shoulders, say "who's to say, people lie all the time", and create an environment that sets up any genuine victim as a suspect, you shut down any pathway to truth. Hypothetical situation: the victim really is a victim. The alleged rapist is really the rapist. Now that victim comes to you and says "this happened". They're scared, they're looking for support. You shrug your shoulders and say you can't help. Who's going to look for actual justice when they can't even get someone to take the story seriously? An alleged victim - whether they're really the victim or a liar - wouldn't pursue a pathway that is shut down before it's even an option. Ultimately, everyone wants the same thing - the victim should get justice and the perpetrator gets the law. One avenue allows that, the other one shuts it down. . So, believe women AND say you want the fair trial. Taking emotion out of it, it's the most practical pathway to truth. So what you're saying is we should allow for due process. Mmm that's a-spicy meat-a-topic! --- New York Rangers [2004-2008] https://media.giphy.com/media/WvQHBYW0q4TuxdAg61/giphy.gif https://psnprofiles.com/Jaromiroquai68 <cite>Jagr_68 posted [p:954068215] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>pinky0926 posted... </cite> <quote>Spicy topic time. It's not about saying "forget the law, let's just lock the guy up without a fair trial." When you believe women, you're just opening the door to investigation. If a woman says she's been raped, and you believe her, that provides a platform on which truth can actually have a chance to out. She might have a tiny bit of support and encouragement to pursue some actual legal recourse. You want the fair trial, right? So let's encourage the trial. You believing her story won't affect the legal outcome even remotely. On the other hand, when you shrug your shoulders, say "who's to say, people lie all the time", and create an environment that sets up any genuine victim as a suspect, you shut down any pathway to truth. Hypothetical situation: the victim really is a victim. The alleged rapist is really the rapist. Now that victim comes to you and says "this happened". They're scared, they're looking for support. You shrug your shoulders and say you can't help. Who's going to look for actual justice when they can't even get someone to take the story seriously? An alleged victim - whether they're really the victim or a liar - wouldn't pursue a pathway that is shut down before it's even an option. Ultimately, everyone wants the same thing - the victim should get justice and the perpetrator gets the law. One avenue allows that, the other one shuts it down. . So, believe women AND say you want the fair trial. Taking emotion out of it, it's the most practical pathway to truth.</quote> So what you're saying is we should allow for due process. Mmm that's a-spicy meat-a-topic! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Orchestrion 05/19/21 8:13:10 AM #6:	The Trent posted... I have to believe them AND respect them? Like, at the same fuckin time? Is your Steam username a reference to rape? --- https://imgur.com/N8KckAr https://imgur.com/LfbgFCJ <cite>Orchestrion posted [p:954068305] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>The Trent posted... </cite> <quote>I have to believe them AND respect them? Like, at the same fuckin time?</quote> Is your Steam username a reference to rape? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
saspa 05/19/21 8:14:27 AM #7:	To be fair, empowering women like that means that men can no longer do low-key oppressive stuff like harassing women in the workplace/other places, calling her a bitch if she rejects his advances, and generally creating an unsafe environment for them. Do you really want to live in such a world? Think Pinky, Think! [Placeholder Image Here] --- https://imgur.com/0UFI0T9 <cite>saspa posted [p:954068326] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>To be fair, empowering women like that means that men can no longer do low-key oppressive stuff like harassing women in the workplace/other places, calling her a bitch if she rejects his advances, and generally creating an unsafe environment for them. Do you really want to live in such a world? Think Pinky, Think! [Placeholder Image Here]</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Lorenzo_2003 05/19/21 8:16:01 AM #8:	CyricZ posted... What if I have a single anecdotal case of a woman lying? Hehehe. --- ... <cite>Lorenzo_2003 posted [p:954068354] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>CyricZ posted... </cite> <quote>What if I have a single anecdotal case of a woman lying?</quote> Hehehe. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 05/19/21 8:16:13 AM #9:	People know that, they just pretend not too in bad faith arguments to change the subject Same as black lives matter No one really believed that meant white and Asian lives don't. But they sure as shit pretended to so they could discriminate against black people --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! https://imgur.com/yPw05Ob <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:954068359] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>People know that, they just pretend not too in bad faith arguments to change the subject Same as black lives matter No one really believed that meant white and Asian lives don't. But they sure as shit pretended to so they could discriminate against black people </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LightHawKnight 05/19/21 8:17:21 AM #10:	It would be nice if news sites actually spent more time saying the guy is innocent after proven so, so that his life isn't ruined since the coverage dies down quickly after proven innocent. Also somehow force people to learn that he was innocent as well, since most people dont care much about learning after the fact that he could be a rapist. --- The Official Odin of the Shin Megami Tensei IV board. "You know how confusing the whole good-evil concept is for me." <cite>LightHawKnight posted [p:954068383] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>It would be nice if news sites actually spent more time saying the guy is innocent after proven so, so that his life isn't ruined since the coverage dies down quickly after proven innocent. Also somehow force people to learn that he was innocent as well, since most people dont care much about learning after the fact that he could be a rapist. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nemu 05/19/21 8:17:50 AM #11:	Its one of those slogans that means well but was used in some really dumb ways so it became useless. <cite>Nemu posted [p:954068393] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>Its one of those slogans that means well but was used in some really dumb ways so it became useless. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Laserion 05/19/21 8:19:00 AM #12:	You have to treat them both as if they are telling the truth, but investigate the whole thing as if either of them could be telling the truth or lying. Don't dismiss the victim's claims, but don't drag the accused through the mud without finishing the investigation first. --- There is no "would of", "should of" or "could of". There is "would've", "should've" and "could've". <cite>Laserion posted [p:954068411] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>You have to treat them both as if they are telling the truth, but investigate the whole thing as if either of them could be telling the truth or lying. Don't dismiss the victim's claims, but don't drag the accused through the mud without finishing the investigation first. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
g980 05/19/21 8:19:01 AM #13:	Just want to note that there is an ocean between investigating and going to trial Not every accusation merits a trial, but yea of course everything merits a good faith investigation --- These old bones live to learn her wanton ways: (I measure time by how a body sways). <cite>g980 posted [p:954068414] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>Just want to note that there is an ocean between investigating and going to trial Not every accusation merits a trial, but yea of course everything merits a good faith investigation</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Trent 05/19/21 8:21:00 AM #14:	Orchestrion posted... Is your Steam username a reference to rape? No, rap --- i swear to God most of y'all cats just don't know The Trent you barely know yourself so i guess most of y'all should be offended <cite>The Trent posted [p:954068459] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>Orchestrion posted... </cite> <quote>Is your Steam username a reference to rape?</quote> No, rap </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Fony 05/19/21 8:23:08 AM #15:	Lot of words to say nothing at all. --- It's not the end of the world, but we can see it from here. <cite>Fony posted [p:954068505] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>Lot of words to say nothing at all. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EndOfDiscOne 05/19/21 8:25:42 AM #16:	Believe that the woman experienced what she did, and also that there may be two sides to the story. It's possible for both parties to tell the truth and still have wildly conflicting accounts. --- I am the Cheese! I am the best character on the show! I am better than both the salami and the bologna *COMBINED!* <cite>EndOfDiscOne posted [p:954068565] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>Believe that the woman experienced what she did, and also that there may be two sides to the story. It's possible for both parties to tell the truth and still have wildly conflicting accounts. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Orchestrion 05/19/21 8:29:16 AM #17:	The Trent posted... No, rap Nice. Just wondering because you like to troll about sexual harassment and assault. --- https://imgur.com/N8KckAr https://imgur.com/LfbgFCJ <cite>Orchestrion posted [p:954068643] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>The Trent posted... </cite> <quote>No, rap</quote> Nice. Just wondering because you like to troll about sexual harassment and assault. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Trent 05/19/21 8:32:03 AM #18:	Orchestrion posted... Nice. thanks! --- i swear to God most of y'all cats just don't know The Trent you barely know yourself so i guess most of y'all should be offended <cite>The Trent posted [p:954068709] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>Orchestrion posted... </cite> <quote>Nice. </quote> thanks! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BignutzisBack 05/19/21 8:33:08 AM #19:	This would be a great stance in a perfect world, but the accused gets raked over the coals immediately no matter how sparse the details. If the accused didn't get their name released until the outcome of the trial and police prosecuted women who do get caught flat out lying I think we would get a lot closer to what you're proposing. --- https://imgur.com/plA0Vg9 https://media.giphy.com/media/dgK22exekwOLm/giphy.gif <cite>BignutzisBack posted [p:954068743] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>This would be a great stance in a perfect world, but the accused gets raked over the coals immediately no matter how sparse the details. If the accused didn't get their name released until the outcome of the trial and police prosecuted women who do get caught flat out lying I think we would get a lot closer to what you're proposing. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Laserion 05/19/21 8:37:19 AM #20:	LightHawKnight posted... It would be nice if news sites actually spent more time saying the guy is innocent after proven so, so that his life isn't ruined since the coverage dies down quickly after proven innocent. Also somehow force people to learn that he was innocent as well, since most people dont care much about learning after the fact that he could be a rapist. This is a good thing, not just for sexual harassment cases, but for any high-profile case where the accused is proven innocent, and was plastered all over the news before. --- There is no "would of", "should of" or "could of". There is "would've", "should've" and "could've". <cite>Laserion posted [p:954068834] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>LightHawKnight posted... </cite> <quote>It would be nice if news sites actually spent more time saying the guy is innocent after proven so, so that his life isn't ruined since the coverage dies down quickly after proven innocent. Also somehow force people to learn that he was innocent as well, since most people dont care much about learning after the fact that he could be a rapist.</quote>This is a good thing, not just for sexual harassment cases, but for any high-profile case where the accused is proven innocent, and was plastered all over the news before. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
monkmith 05/19/21 8:45:54 AM #21:	none of this shit works when twitter mobs are still a thing. its not the news sites that blow these stories up, its twitter mobs. --- Taarsidath-an halsaam. Quando il gioco e finito, il re e il pedone vanno nella stessa scatola <cite>monkmith posted [p:954069037] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>none of this shit works when twitter mobs are still a thing. its not the news sites that blow these stories up, its twitter mobs. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The Trent 05/19/21 8:46:10 AM #22:	cancel twitter mobs --- i swear to God most of y'all cats just don't know The Trent you barely know yourself so i guess most of y'all should be offended <cite>The Trent posted [p:954069045] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>cancel twitter mobs </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ultimate reaver 05/19/21 8:54:40 AM #23:	Believe women started out as do not offhandedly disbelieve sexual misconduct and that is where it should have stayed because that was something that society actively needed to start doing. Way too many allegations are outright discarded because the accused is a likeavle man or people cant imagine them doing it or whatever Unfortunately social media tacked on also if anything questionable about the accusations is brought to light ignore it or youre a rape apologist and if the person involved is cleared of wrongdoing make sure to condemn them anyway till your dying breath because they must have gamed the system somehow. Like you are told to unconditionally look at every situation without any objectivity and shit the fuck up or youre a monster. That doesnt work and actively turns people off from getting involved with the situation in any way to spare them the grief --- I pray god will curse the writer, as the writer has cursed the world with this beautiful, stupendous creation, terrible in its simplicity, irresistible in truth <cite>ultimate reaver posted [p:954069244] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>Believe women started out as do not offhandedly disbelieve sexual misconduct and that is where it should have stayed because that was something that society actively needed to start doing. Way too many allegations are outright discarded because the accused is a likeavle man or people cant imagine them doing it or whatever Unfortunately social media tacked on also if anything questionable about the accusations is brought to light ignore it or youre a rape apologist and if the person involved is cleared of wrongdoing make sure to condemn them anyway till your dying breath because they must have gamed the system somehow. Like you are told to unconditionally look at every situation without any objectivity and shit the fuck up or youre a monster. That doesnt work and actively turns people off from getting involved with the situation in any way to spare them the grief </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Squall28 05/19/21 9:06:52 AM #24:	pinky0926 posted... It's not about saying "forget the law, let's just lock the guy up without a fair trial." You guys really need to stop reframing people's argument. This right here is exactly what people have a problem with, and you just handwaved it away to construct your own scenario. Yes, people should absolutely believe women and have these issues investigated. 100%. No don't try to absolutely bury the guy before it is investigated. I would guess that the women is right in most of these cases, but on the off chance she's lying, you just ruined someone's life for no reason. --- You can't go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending. -Misattributed to CS Lewis <cite>Squall28 posted [p:954069495] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>pinky0926 posted... </cite> <quote>It's not about saying "forget the law, let's just lock the guy up without a fair trial."</quote> You guys really need to stop reframing people's argument. This right here is exactly what people have a problem with, and you just handwaved it away to construct your own scenario. Yes, people should absolutely believe women and have these issues investigated. 100%. No don't try to absolutely bury the guy before it is investigated. I would guess that the women is right in most of these cases, but on the off chance she's lying, you just ruined someone's life for no reason. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
rexcrk 05/19/21 9:16:36 AM #25:	pinky0926 posted... Spicy topic time. It's not about saying "forget the law, let's just lock the guy up without a fair trial." yeah but.. that sure as hell seems like what it is. --- Bah weep grannah weep ni ni bon <cite>rexcrk posted [p:954069701] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>pinky0926 posted... </cite> <quote>Spicy topic time. It's not about saying "forget the law, let's just lock the guy up without a fair trial."</quote>yeah but.. that sure as hell seems like what it is. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dave_is_slick 05/19/21 9:27:30 AM #26:	Don't believe, support. --- The most relaxing version of Aquatic Ambiance I've ever heard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl61y1XM7sM <cite>dave_is_slick posted [p:954069981] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>Don't believe, support. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#27	Post #27 was unavailable or deleted.
Veggeta X 05/19/21 9:37:41 AM #28:	The Trent posted... I have to believe them AND respect them? Like, at the same fuckin time? She might give me sex after --- Don't like it? Don't watch it. It's that simple Dictator of Nice Guys <cite>Veggeta X posted [p:954070223] in The thing ... [t:79467308]...</cite> <quote>The Trent posted... </cite> <quote>I have to believe them AND respect them? Like, at the same fuckin time?</quote>She might give me sex after </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > The thing about "believe women" that people don't get (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > The thing about "believe women" that people don't get