Current Events > Do you support Universal Basic Income?

(+) Yeah! (+)

CloneTheHero posted...

no its not. socialism is the fad right now among gen z and most millennials but the country is never going to fall into that pit of despair lol.

ya lets keep printing money for the rich corporations instead

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no


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Yes, of course, I would never have income otherwise.
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CloneTheHero posted...

socialism usually gets dumped by people when they open their first business or earn their first real paycheck only then do they realize it was a bad phase of theirs. so i dont expect this fad to continue too long

millennials are reaching that entrepreneurial age where they start making real money, gen z is going into college and getting indoctrinated by this crap but again once that first fat paycheck gets cashed any admiration for socialism evaporates into thin air

socialism is a fundamentally different economic system from capitalism. UBI is not socialism.

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https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

That's a kind of ugly secret of the American labor market," David Autor, an economist at MIT, told me. "Part of the reason our unemployment rates have been low, until recently, is that a lot of people who would have trouble finding jobs are on a different program."
Part of the rise in the number of people on disability is simply driven by the fact that the workforce is getting older, and older people tend to have more health problems.
But disability has also become a de facto welfare program for people without a lot of education or job skills. But it wasn't supposed to serve this purpose; it's not a retraining program designed to get people back onto their feet. Once people go onto disability, they almost never go back to work. Fewer than 1 percent of those who were on the federal program for disabled workers at the beginning of 2011 have returned to the workforce since then, one economist told me.

We've put a time limit on unemployment and other benefits in order to push people off welfare but a significant number of the people that have been pushed towards work instead end up on disability and they never return to work.

Its an open secret that this is happening. We have the data showing that the % of people on disability increases with the rate of unemployment when there is a recession and we can look at locations with depressed economies in the US and, surprise, the % of people on disability is many times higher than the overall US average and the causes of disability have shifted away from clearly diagnosable illnesses and injuries.

We've created a system where people are given an incentive for exiting the workplace forever and created a perverse disincentive for self improvement and resilience. Even if someone feels like they could return to work doing something, anything, they are basically told that if they do that they will lose everything in terms of their benefits.

UBI would fix this. I'm not saying it wouldn't create other problems but it would fix this. If someone is able to work in any capacity they would be able to do it and still get their benefits. People that are working at McDonalds wouldn't be making less than that's only income is the safety net.

I want money so I am all for it

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As long as UBI is in addition to existing programs and also truly universal, it would be an unambiguous social good that would help people out.

Atralis posted...

https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

That's a kind of ugly secret of the American labor market," David Autor, an economist at MIT, told me. "Part of the reason our unemployment rates have been low, until recently, is that a lot of people who would have trouble finding jobs are on a different program."
Part of the rise in the number of people on disability is simply driven by the fact that the workforce is getting older, and older people tend to have more health problems.
But disability has also become a de facto welfare program for people without a lot of education or job skills. But it wasn't supposed to serve this purpose; it's not a retraining program designed to get people back onto their feet. Once people go onto disability, they almost never go back to work. Fewer than 1 percent of those who were on the federal program for disabled workers at the beginning of 2011 have returned to the workforce since then, one economist told me.

We've put a time limit on unemployment and other benefits in order to push people off welfare but a significant number of the people that have been pushed towards work instead end up on disability and they never return to work.

Its an open secret that this is happening. We have the data showing that the % of people on disability increases with the rate of unemployment when there is a recession and we can look at locations with depressed economies in the US and, surprise, the % of people on disability is many times higher than the overall US average and the causes of disability have shifted away from clearly diagnosable illnesses and injuries.

We've created a system where people are given an incentive for exiting the workplace forever and created a perverse disincentive for self improvement and resilience. Even if someone feels like they could return to work doing something, anything, they are basically told that if they do that they will lose everything in terms of their benefits.

UBI would fix this. I'm not saying it wouldn't create other problems but it would fix this. If someone is able to work in any capacity they would be able to do it and still get their benefits. People that are working at McDonalds wouldn't be making less than that's only income is the safety net.

This problem exists because our economy, as it currently exists, is profoundly anti-worker.
I have a friend who suffers terrible pain daily due to a back injury suffered at work. Shes not on disability, because the company(Whole Foods/Amazon, if youre wondering) is suing, alleging she wasnt disabled due to a workplace injury, because employers claiming they have no duty to their employees (former or current) is de rigeur in our economic system.
She goes everywhere with either her cane or her walker, and is desperate to keep busy: shes gotten into making candles and gifted me some theyre incredible.

My point? More power to anyone who successfully claims disability and escapes this soul-sucking rat-race. Even those who manage to do so fraudulently are morally superior to most employers.

I support housing and food for all, whatever it takes to provide for everyone has my support

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No, its unsustainably, wont help you afford a house in a high demand city regardless, and can, and will be easily abused.

That and if someone wants a decent life they can work for it themselves. Society doeasnt them anything except the oppunity to do so.

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absolutely not

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Depends on implementation. It can provide bargaining power to labor. Look at how unemployment benefits are currently allowing workers to demand higher pay.

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Spooking posted...

Not at all. Demand lower taxes if you want more $$$ in your pockets.

If I've never owed money during tax season, how would lower taxes benefit me?

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ElatedVenusaur posted...

As long as UBI is in addition to existing programs and also truly universal, it would be an unambiguous social good that would help people out.

I think it should take the place of existing programs. If it truly is 'basic income'. Then it should cover food, housing, whatever at a basic enough level that someone is able to live. There would be no need for disability payments, unemployment, food stamps, etc.

But everyone that works would be doing better than everyone that doesn't because they would get their basic needs covered AND get paid a salary. Being on government welfare benefits would never be seen as a prize that people go after.

Speak for yourself. I would love to just have universal basic income and not have to work.

Bleuets posted...

Speak for yourself. I would love to just have universal basic income and not have to work.

And then roll up to your date's house.

https://i.imgur.com/7dNqCMg.jpg

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Bleuets posted...

Speak for yourself. I would love to just have universal basic income and not have to work.

People that do this should be the poorest people in society even if we have UBI I don't think even you would disagree with that. If someone is doing literally any amount of productive work even just an hour or two a day they should have more resources coming their way than someone that just exists as a potato.

Id want at least $3k per month to cover all my expenses.

It's definitely good for now but eventually we're gonna need to overhaul the entire system

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Pepys Monster posted...

If I've never owed money during tax season, how would lower taxes benefit me?

You do realize there are taxes other than income tax?

So how does this work?

If youre under a certain cap, the rich people have to pay you money? A grand or so should do. So you dont abuse it. And your bank account would need to be transparent to inspections, no withdrawing large amounts of cash, and if you get a good job, or have too much savings or any major discrepancies with your finances, then you lose access to the program for a period of time or whatever. Its a complicated thing to work out.

Give them just enough to pay the rent, but not enough to eat steak & smoke cigarettes every night.

Xethuminra posted...

So how does this work?

If youre under a certain cap, the rich people have to pay you money? A grand or so should do. So you dont abuse it. And your bank account would need to be transparent to inspections, no withdrawing large amounts of cash, and if you get a good job, or have too much savings or any major discrepancies with your finances, then you lose access to the program for a period of time or whatever. Its a complicated thing to work out.

Give them just enough to pay the rent, but not enough to eat steak & smoke cigarettes every night.

The idea of UBI is that everyone would get it. No strings attached. No minimum income level, no graduating scale of it being reduced as you make more money. Every single person would get that money. If UBI pays out 2k a month and you are making 2k a month already then you still get the 2k a month from UBI.

I see this as happening eventually but I'm not sure we are ready yet. Its the Star Trek future basically. If you want to just be a bumb you can do that but if you want to do something to be productive you basically start from a point where everything you get in terms of cash is gravy.

Xethuminra posted...

So how does this work?

If youre under a certain cap, the rich people have to pay you money? A grand or so should do. So you dont abuse it. And your bank account would need to be transparent to inspections, no withdrawing large amounts of cash, and if you get a good job, or have too much savings or any major discrepancies with your finances, then you lose access to the program for a period of time or whatever. Its a complicated thing to work out.

Give them just enough to pay the rent, but not enough to eat steak & smoke cigarettes every night.

um no thats not how it works. Its universal meaning I get the money no matter what. Nobody gets to see my finances just send me the money.

And a grand?! Oh fuck no, Im gonna need a lot more than that. I cant live off a fucking grand.