Board 8 > 999 is a ridiculous game *some spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

andylt posted...

does that mean you can get all the endings without ever doing the Shower Room puzzle?

Yep. That's another reason I didn't think it was a real option, I got every option without forcing myself through it.

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Ha, guess that's a nice optional little extra then.

OK I snuck in one extra playthrough tonight, it wound up being 5-8-1. I was slowing down and trying to pay more attention this time. Seven does indeed hold the door open to the music room, but I still don't know why. The only thing in there I can think of is the safe we can't open, but I'm not sure why he'd go back for that. He does the same thing later leaving the shower room door open, so maybe it's his cop instinct or something.

Into 8, we get Lotus's explanation and I recall now her wild theory about human brains being output devices, and our thoughts being controlled remotely and how that may be tied to Seven's amnesia. I'm sure that'll fit in with the telepathy stuff going on. She also teaches Junpei about prosopagnosia. Unfortunately there's nothing here that illuminates anything for me, so having largely ignored Clover I pick door 1 and see what changes. Hoo boy.

There's an odd moment where Junpei's head is in immense pain for a while, but other than that things transpire normally, but without the heart to hearts with Clover. She then loses it and kills everyone. Well, we now know that she took the 0 bracelet, that could come in handy. There's also a weird thing with Junpei looking into her eyes and basically falling in, I'm sure that also ties in to the telepathy stuff but no idea how.

We got a new ending, but I don't really feel like I'm any further ahead and I have no idea where to go from here. Time to think on things and come back tomorrow.

WARNING: WILD, PROBABLY FOOLISH THEORY AHEAD

...But then, as I'm thinking about the game while brushing my teeth, I have an epiphany. I'm going through the unknown puzzles in my head, and land on the prosopagnosia. This whole conversation can't be for nothing, it's way too specific and for once isn't a spooky urban legend thing. So I run through the cast and try to think if any of them could fit this diagnosis. Could it be June or Junpei? I've been wondering for a while if June isn't who she says, so could she have tricked Junpei into thinking she's Akane? No, of course not, this doesn't hold up at all because Junpei recognises everyone instantly. Then could it be the other way around, and June has face-blindness? ...Maybe, but there's not really any reason to think so.

I start thinking through everybody, and then it hits me: Ace. It's Ace. Is it? When we're looking for Snake, Junpei and Ace talk briefly and Junpei mentions how Snake and Clover look really different for being siblings, and Ace questions him. Junpei specifically notes how odd this is, and Ace says something like 'well now that you mention it...'. I had been assuming that this is an indication of Ace knowing more than he lets on, but thinking about it it fits perfectly with Lotus's explanation of prosopagnosia. Ace is always quiet, we barely spend any time with him, and it all just seems to fit. Then I think about Room 6, and those cards with everybody's faces on. That would be a perfect time to question Ace on this, and I remember him being curt and cutting off Junpei when he's teasing him there.

For a few minutes I am far too proud of myself for coming up with this theory, but reality does eventually seep in. It's not a lot to go on, and I may be entirely wrong, but more importantly: so what? If Ace can't recognise people's faces, what does this mean? Does this make him more or less likely to be a killer? Why is he hiding it? I'm at the point where I doubt there's a single mastermind behind everything. What would this change? Could he have tried to kill Snake by accident instead of somebody else? But then it's not Snake's body we find... Could the Zero mask function as an assisted sight thing, Godot-style? Eh. He takes Lotus away to show her something before Clover's massacre, is this to kill her? If he is the killer, his sacrificial offer makes total sense as he knows it's irrelevant and it gets any suspicion off of him. And we know a lot about the others at this point- Snake, Clover, and probably Santa were in the experiment, and Lotus and Seven are directly connected to it. That only leaves June, Junpei, and Ace. Was it Ace who convinces us not to take the gun?

I also think of the other endings- when we go through Door 6 with him, we come out and everybody's still alive, the killings only happen afterwards. When we go through Door 1 with him, we come out and everybody's alive. It's only when we go through Door 2, without Ace, that we come back and everybody's dead already. ...But that includes Ace. But did they check his pulse? I don't remember specifically. Gah, I don't know if I've stumbled upon something or if I'm coming across as a total fool here. It has to be him or June, right?

I don't know, the more I think about it the less it makes sense, and now I feel foolish for jumping to such a conclusion. But I know exactly what I'm going to do next playthrough- I'm picking 5-8-6, and paying attention to every single thing Ace does at every opportunity. If I am entirely wrong please hold your mockery until I find out for myself, then laugh all you like >_>

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You have finally entered the insane theory rant portion of your Zero Escape experience

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My first questionable moment is when Ace insists that Zero is an organisation, not a single person, but the glowing red flag is the anesthetic. He says "I didn't expect I'd be using it on... myself". My guess here is that he used the drug on Snake and has him unconscious in one of the hospital side rooms. After all, he is the one who stays to look there later on. Ace keeps insisting that we trust each other, stopping us from suspecting each other, and I really think that I stumbled on the right answer.

Oh what a fool I was.

Sure enough, through Door 6 we do discover some things. Santa interestingly has more to tell us this time round, including a rat experiment and more details on his sister who died 9 years ago (presumably the girl in the experiment). He also rather casually tosses out that Ace is the CEO of Cradle Pharmaceuticals (why did Ace admit to this when he was trying so hard to keep his past hidden?). Another fever fit from June confirms to us that Ace has prosopagnosia, but oh man, things are not done there.

After Door 6 Ace has us split up, Clover dies- not a big deal, people are dying all the time in the endings- but then the game... just keeps going. Clover had some mystery note. Junpei eventually opens the safe. He confronts Ace (terrific heel turn from Ace, very 'that one guy in Ace Attorney' caliber), but it turns out I was wrong about many things. Ace is a monster, but he is not Zero. He didn't keep Snake unconscious, he actually thought he killed him. This sequence just keeps going on and on, and for a while I think I must've stumbled onto the true ending, but no.

Snake is in the coffin (no big surprise), and when we pick the 0 bracelet my first choice is the combo that would make it 6. In my mind, the second Ace is out of the question June is the only person in the group who Zero could possibly be. We get a long tragic incinerator scene, and Junpei eventually finds June fainting again. Zero signals about multiple paths, and how Zero has lost the game. 5-8-6 done.

I... am more confused than ever. June being Zero would be incredibly obvious at this point, but if not her, then how can things make sense? I feel like we're moving headfirst into the pseudoscience territory now. June's hot/cold fever seems legit at least. Zero says he's always been close to Junpei. We still don't know how June or Junpei connect to the experiment 9 years ago. Was June in the experiment? Why would Zero bring so many innocent victims into this game if they wanted revenge on what was done in the past? What is Zero actually hoping to accomplish here? Could Zero be Junpei somehow? Some amnesia thing or telepathy onto him?

The more I think, the more confused I am. I have no idea what's going on. Christ what route am I supposed to pick now, it all seems trivial. Jeez. Good stuff today though!

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If you think about it, it should be pretty obvious what route you have to pick now.

It's one you've done before after all.

Oh, the first one ended in 'To Be Continued' so I guess that again? And Junpei will have some telepathic realisation of what the code on the coffin is or something, huh.

So did some people actually get the ending I just had in their first runthrough? Because that must've been wild, I wonder how that would've shaped expectations for the rest of the game.

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andylt posted...

So did some people actually get the ending I just had in their first runthrough? Because that must've been wild, I wonder how that would've shaped expectations for the rest of the game.

I did. It's honestly the worst-case scenario because a lot of subsequent scenes lose their mystique if you get the Safe ending first. Hampered my enjoyment of my playthrough.

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I lucked out and got that one last.

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KamikazePotato posted...

I did. It's honestly the worst-case scenario because a lot of subsequent scenes lose their mystique if you get the Safe ending first. Hampered my enjoyment of my playthrough.

That sucks, I can completely see why that would hurt the game. Not sure how they could've barred it off to stop people getting it first thing though.

I think I must've gotten really lucky with my endings order, despite initially being underwhelmed with the TBC ending. I'm glad I got this ending after I'd had enough time to put some pieces together and understand how big some revelations are.

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I got every bad ending before both the others. I was pissed at the time that I kept dying, but in hindsight, that was best.

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Zero Escape playthroughs are the absolute best

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don't read the comments on this, because I'm sure it has some spoilers, but I do feel like sharing one of my favorite high quality rips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K80bx6-0tcY

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I think I got axe and sub first. Those are fun at the start but I don't think they really stoke the mystery very much. They kill a lot of momentum. Safe or coffin first seems good in that sense.

The worst is probably if you do the optimal route first, because then you miss out on a lot of content.

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I think I got...Knife first? It's been years.

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Axe was my first. I remember that pretty vividly because I wasn't ready for it at all.

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I got Axe first and then Sub.
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Knife was my first I believe, and then Sub and then Axe? Or it might be the other way around, I forget since it's been so long.

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I know exactly which routes I did.

4-7-2
5-8-6
4-7-1

And then I went back to get axe and knife, and play the shower room.

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Seems like things have worked out pretty well for me then.

4-7-1
5-8-2
5-3-2
4-8-6
5-8-1
5-8-6

Aside from the double up with the room 2 endings I managed to get a different one each time. The Axe ending is probs my least fav tbh, it might make more sense after I finish the game but it felt too over the top for Clover after having seen her in the other endings. Looking back the coffin one is indeed a good one to get early, and I'm very glad 5-8-6 happened so late on for me. I can't imagine getting that one and then having to pal around with Ace for 5 other endings lol.


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Coffin -> Sub -> Knife -> Knife or Sub again -> Safe -> True -> Axe

Im pretty happy with my selection.

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Axe was my first, Im surprised its so common.

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I think I got axe first. It felt like I picked the most natural set of choices.

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FBike and I played together; we got Sub first.

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I think I did the following:
5-7-1
4-8-2
4-3-2
And then another path with 6 that wasn't 5-8-6.
5-8-6
4-7-1

I had to look up to do 5-8-6 and 4-7-1. Props to you for reasoning it successfully.

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Fiop posted...

I had to look up to do 5-8-6 and 4-7-1. Props to you for reasoning it successfully.

I had help from this topic!

Phew, good job I know how to do Sudokus. Loved how they used the dual screens at the end.

That was one hell of a final sequence. I knew much less than I thought! Pretty damn satisfied with how it all went down though. Man my opinions on this game shot up so far, I really enjoyed this experience in the end!

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Going to play VLR?

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Axe is def the most likely first ending that they nudge you towards. It is pretty nonsensical though. They just wanted to go with the little girl murderer trope.

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Wait is that all you're gonna write about the ending?? There's soooo much to unpack there. Even though you already finished the game, it's almost a spoiler to talk about some of the nuances there if you haven't really thought it over yet.

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Oh I just needed time to digest what happened, there's plenty to talk about!

• So, June's 6 actually being a 9 is a great twist, as is the realisation that her and Santa are together the whole game. But it is a little undercut for me by Santa's 3 being a 0. Like you can't pull the 'ah see, you actually read it upside down the whole time!' then immediately follow it with 'yeah this one's just a flat out lie'. Also this means there were two 9 bracelets but no 3 the whole time I think, which is kinda meh.
• So is June in some kind of Schrodinger's Cat situation the whole game? I guess her fevers and stuff were when she was losing connection to Junpei, or when the gang was on a losing path maybe. This is supported by her actually disappearing in the Incinerator. So when she talks to Junpei the whole game is it as her 9 year old self (that would track with the way she talks to him), or as this hypothetical 18 year old Akane who both does and does not exist?
• Poor Lotus lmao. Thrown into this nightmare hellscape. Is brutally murdered most of the time. Is the only one who has no idea what's going on, and nobody tells her anything til they're already out.
• The last 9 being a q is a fun twist. Though when it's revealed, there's a flashback of Zero saying 'seek the door that carries a 9' but they change the 9 to a q. But that was Zero actually talking! They can't misread her speech!
• Also the whole thing being in Building Q is great, I don't know why that didn't occur to me. But how the hell did they pull off the flooding decks lol. And did Cradle Pharmaceutical just abandon the place after 9 years ago? I guess if the experiment failed with June dying and Seven interfering then that could make some sense. It's possible they addressed this already and I forgot.
• Junpei suggests that Seven may have been lying all along at the end. I don't like this possibility. IDK if he means faking the amnesia or he just realises the whole truth when it comes back to him, but I'm not sure if that works. If Seven remembered June surviving, then surely Ace would know it too. Which would make the experiment a success. But he really doesn't act that way the whole time I think, idk. Honestly this all makes me want to replay the game again to watch June and Santa and Ace and Seven.
• So... June and Santa actually did plan out the murders of the three Pharma heads, and arranged them in such a way that would keep blood off their own hands, technically (but not really lol). This feels weirdly underaddressed. Of course they were bad people, but it's morally grey enough that it really warrants a discussion. And Ace, probably the worst of the lot, gets to live.
• Actually, the whole plan really deserves more clarification. June and Santa somehow manage to set this whole thing up by themselves, and in 4 different timelines it results in several innocent people dying. Do those timelines just cut off and not continue, or what? It's weird that there's no acknowledgement of them putting these people through hell (they will all be scarred for life for this!). Of course it was to save Akane's life, but I feel like at least one of the gang should be pissed at them for this.
• So was Junpei 'supposed' to figure out the coffin code himself in the true ending, but Clover took the paper so he couldn't? That tracks.
• Actually it seems like June and Santa didn't account for Clover completely breaking down and losing it when 'Snake' dies, which seems weird given how similar it is to their own situation.
• And uh... who actually killed everyone in the other endings? It could be June and Santa resetting the timeline, but I'd think they would just use that gas and not be nearly as brutal about it. So was it Ace (like when Ace goes off with Lotus in Clover's ending)? Man, considering how much Santa and June thought this through, there's a lot of scenarios where things don't go to plan.
• Why were Akane and Aoi put on the boat together anyway? Was it an accident or actually part of Ace's plan somehow? At the end he really does seem to want Akane to figure it out, but maybe he was just thinking she'd connect to the Building Q people (which I guess couldn't happen because she was a transmitter not a receiver, or wtv the order was).
• The **** is the deal with Alice, really? They spent too much time setting that up to just leave it as a dangling thread at the end like that lol.

Overall the ending was very emotionally satisfying, and I probably shouldn't think too hard about some of the paradox/time-travel stuff and just enjoy it for what it is. I'll think some more about it, I'm sure there's plenty that I'm still missing. The dual screen past/present stuff (and upside down puzzle!) was awesome, I kinda wish they'd done that more but I guess it would've lost its impact so it's cool they saved it for the end.

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andylt posted...

They can't misread her speech!

9 in Japanese is pronounced Q, it's so stupid but genius. And it works in English cuz there's no voice.

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foolm0r0n posted...

9 in Japanese is pronounced Q, it's so stupid but genius. And it works in English cuz there's no voice.

Oh that's right, it's like 'kyu' isn't it. That's amazing, I retract that complaint entirely lol.

(Isn't there English VA in the remake though?)

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andylt posted...

So is June in some kind of Schrodinger's Cat situation the whole game? I guess her fevers and stuff were when she was losing connection to Junpei, or when the gang was on a losing path maybe.

Exactly. The only time she has a fever in the correct ending is before you choose the first door.

andylt posted...

who actually killed everyone in the other endings? It could be June and Santa resetting the timeline, but I'd think they would just use that gas and not be nearly as brutal about it. So was it Ace (like when Ace goes off with Lotus in Clover's ending)?

Pretty much every death outside of the Axe ending can be attributed to Ace, yeah. For example, in the sub ending, where everyone dies, Junpei checks a few of their pulses, but not specifically his.

andylt posted...

The **** is the deal with Alice, really?

\_()_/

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andylt posted...

So when she talks to Junpei the whole game is it as her 9 year old self (that would track with the way she talks to him), or as this hypothetical 18 year old Akane who both does and does not exist?

Had to save this one for its own post, because it's probably 999's greatest claim to fame. Everything on the top screen is what Junpei sees, says, and is thinking. Everything on the bottom screen is what Akane sees, is thinking, and other narrations she is projecting onto Junpei's story.

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Which is why the DS version is superior because it's the only one with that final puzzle

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MrSmartGuy posted...

Had to save this one for its own post, because it's probably 999's greatest claim to fame. Everything on the top screen is what Junpei sees, says, and is thinking. Everything on the bottom screen is what Akane sees, is thinking, and other narrations she is projecting onto Junpei's story.

Huh. Having played on Steam, I have no idea what you mean. Is that just for the ending, or throughout the entire game?

andylt posted...

So, June's 6 actually being a 9 is a great twist, as is the realisation that her and Santa are together the whole game. But it is a little undercut for me by Santa's 3 being a 0. Like you can't pull the 'ah see, you actually read it upside down the whole time!' then immediately follow it with 'yeah this one's just a flat out lie'. Also this means there were two 9 bracelets but no 3 the whole time I think, which is kinda meh.

It means there are three 9 bracelets, and no 3 or 6. Remember, 0 and 9 are equivalent.

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azuarc posted...

Huh. Having played on Steam, I have no idea what you mean. Is that just for the ending, or throughout the entire game?

Through the whole game. Bottom screen is 9 year old Akane's perspective, and it's also where all your choices are made. So the choices are just Akane switching the stream that she is watching.

andylt posted...

I kinda wish they'd done that more

Which means they did a ton with this! It's awesome to replay knowing that the bottom screen is Akane.

Basically it means that you as the player are 9yr Akane. (Not exactly, since she sees all the timelines simultaneously, but you see them sequentially...)

It's only in the final puzzle where you are actually playing as Junpei. That's why the touch screen has to be flipped so it's at the top, since the top is Junpei.

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MrSmartGuy posted...

Had to save this one for its own post, because it's probably 999's greatest claim to fame. Everything on the top screen is what Junpei sees, says, and is thinking. Everything on the bottom screen is what Akane sees, is thinking, and other narrations she is projecting onto Junpei's story.

Oh wow that's amazing, I'm definitely doing another playthrough just to look at this.

Leonhart4 posted...

Which is why the DS version is superior because it's the only one with that final puzzle

WTF, what do they do in the other version?

azuarc posted...

It means there are three 9 bracelets, and no 3 or 6. Remember, 0 and 9 are equivalent.

Good point about 0 = 9. But there was a 6 (the 0 bracelet) so it is just 3 that's missing! (Also I think there were two 2s for the fake Snake)

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foolm0r0n posted...

It's only in the final puzzle where you are actually playing as Junpei. That's why the touch screen has to be flipped so it's at the top, since the top is Junpei.

Again, that is an amazing touch. Man without dual screens there's so many little gameplay things like this that can't be done anymore.

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andylt posted...

If Seven remembered June surviving, then surely Ace would know it too. Which would make the experiment a success. But he really doesn't act that way the whole time I think, idk.

In the paths where Akane dies, he remembers her dying. No lies there. In the true path, Akane has explained the plan to him, so he pretends to have amnesia. So he does go back and forth like that.

andylt posted...

Do those timelines just cut off and not continue, or what? It's weird that there's no acknowledgement of them putting these people through hell

Akane explained it like a bunch of river streams, and some of them stop. Or a bunch of TV screens on a wall. So she sees them all at the same time, and only the true ending stream actually continues into the future. The other endings don't actually exist, so all the torture and death in those paths didn't happen. The trick though is that Akane and Junpei DO remember it. So she is really only torturing Junpei, and she is aware and apologetic of that.

But yeah if you're interested in the morals of this quantum trolley problem where you sacrifice "non existent" people in an alternate timeline, you're in luck since there's 2 more games about that.

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The re-release fixes the "Zero talking in the flashback" localization issue, and replaces the Sudoku with a much weaker puzzle.

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Yea the whole ending blew me away and specifically with the screen realization, it's really quite something

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foolm0r0n posted...

In the paths where Akane dies, he remembers her dying. No lies there. In the true path, Akane has explained the plan to him, so he pretends to have amnesia. So he does go back and forth like that.

........ huh. I'm amazed that it's been years removed from even thinking about this game and yet I'm still learning new things about it. I always thought it was ambiguous, but this makes a ton of sense.

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I'm pretty sure it is ambiguous, at least within the game itself.

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Akane gets a fever every time you pick a door that will lead to her death because she's feeling the flames of the furnace.

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foolm0r0n posted...

9 in Japanese is pronounced Q, it's so stupid but genius. And it works in English cuz there's no voice.

In the English version they had the players find a note with the rules in their pockets at the start and that's how they did the 9 = q thing. They forgot to change that for the flashback at the end though.

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Leonhart4 posted...

Akane gets a fever every time you pick a door that will lead to her death because she's feeling the flames of the furnace.

Well that's just cruel >_>

What about Junpei's headaches? Is it because Akane is in his head like she described and it's a similar thing as her fever, or is it some timeline correcting stuff.

And I guess in the 'true' timeline I wonder what happened with Cradle Pharma? Ace would surely have watched Akane survive (or had cameras at the least) so they knew the experiment worked, but they just abandoned the facility anyway? Hmm. Also it's weird they locked Seven up instead of just murdering him, but maybe they had a plan to use him (or just didn't see themselves as murderers!).

foolm0r0n posted...

But yeah if you're interested in the morals of this quantum trolley problem where you sacrifice "non existent" people in an alternate timeline, you're in luck since there's 2 more games about that.

I am very interested in this, and this is good to know!

hombad46 posted...

Going to play VLR?

Forgot to answer this, but yes of course! I'll wait for the next time it's on sale on 3DS but I'll def pick up that and the third one. I assumed they were all self-contained stories but I gather now that there is a direct throughline?

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Yeah, they're all directly connected to each other.

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You can get Virtue's Last Reward on any system you want. There are no significant changes for VLR or Zero Time Dilemma across platforms like there were for 999.

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MrSmartGuy posted...

You can get Virtue's Last Reward on any system you want. There are no significant changes for VLR or Zero Time Dilemma across platforms like there were for 999.

Yeah, since they came out for Vita also, there aren't any dual screen gimmicks for the other two.

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Didn't one VLR release only have Japanese VA?

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