Current Events > Women disgruntled over transgender woman in change room and spa

(+) Yeah! (+)

CyricZ posted...

What's so offensive about a penis?

I'm not on the other side but this is a stupid thing to say.

Do you walk around public with your dick out? Do you whip it out at work and say "there's nothing wrong with seeing a penis!!!"

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I4NRulez posted...

Do you walk around public with your dick out? Do you whip it out at work and say "there's nothing wrong with seeing a penis!!!"

are these spaces for nude women, which come with the expectation of seeing nude women?

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I4NRulez posted...

this is a stupid thing to say.

I'll note you haven't answered the question.

I ask it for the purpose of getting a considered response, particularly given the number of people who believe that in this particular issue the penis is the offense.

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CyricZ posted...

I'll note you haven't answered the question.

I ask it for the purpose of getting a considered response, particularly given the number of people who believe that in this particular issue the penis is the offense.

I don't get why you keep asking this question. It's offensive because it's seen as culturally offensive. Cultural standards can change and they can be seen as incorrect by later generations, but that doesn't change that right here and right now most, if not all, cultures don't like adult age, non-familial nudity of the opposite biological sex.

Opisseus posted...

are these spaces for nude women, which come with the expectation of seeing nude women?

your mentality that a pre op transgender woman with a penis is somehow just going to be accepted by over half the population in this particular context and that they just need to deal with it is extremely naive.

The solution here and for every gym or spa now is to offer gender neutral areas. Because its the only option that gives everyone a choice. The many cis women who dont want to be exposed to a strangers penis have rights as well despite the attempts at changing the societal norm that has been in place for like 200 years.

this isnt a situation that will be accepted over night by the vast majority of people living in America. And demanding people to adhere and accept wont do anyone any favors when it comes to transgender rights. And the people attacking others at the protest arent helping either.


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Nemu posted...

cultures don't like adult age, non-familial nudity of the opposite biological sex.

Sounds kinda ridiculous as you keep stacking on the qualifiers, doesn't it?

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chrono625 posted...

your mentality that a pre op transgender woman with a penis is somehow just going to be accepted by over half the population in this particular context and that they just need to deal with it is extremely naive.

Their mentality is that they can accept it or leave. And that's that's correct mindset and the only one that matters.

Zikten posted...

This is only an issue because Americans have a stupid hangup about public nudity.

No shit. There's a time and a place for everything. The fuck kind of logic is that?

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chrono625 posted...

this isnt a situation that will be accepted over night by the vast majority of people living in America. And demanding people to adhere and accept wont do anyone any favors when it comes to transgender rights. And the people attacking others at the protest arent helping either.

We're literally having this discussion for the purpose of challenging this societal "norm".

"Stop having the discussion, let things evolve naturally" takes seem to forget what had to take place for these societal evolutions to happen.

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CyricZ posted...

Sounds kinda ridiculous as you keep stacking on the qualifiers, doesn't it?

Not really. Some cultures are fine with kids running around nude until they're like school age and some see bathing with family members as completely normal up to a certain point, but none of which I'm aware practice communal bathing of both sexes. If there are any, it'd probably be close-knit communities or tribes that see each other as family even if not all directly related.

Nemu posted...

Not really.

Exactly. You're aware that there's no one standard so trying to enforce an overtly specific standard tends to sound a little... well overtly specific to the point of being ridiculous.

There's an underlying issue to the gender segregation and censorship of nudity and no one wants to bring it up in this topic because they're not dumb enough to do so when the topic is transgender people.

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CyricZ posted...

We're literally having this discussion for the purpose of challenging this societal "norm".

and Im saying youre not going to brute force acceptance down peoples throats regarding this sensitive issue any time soon.

so you need to find a common ground area where all parties are comfortable. As I said, gender neutral areas where its explicitly stated this area is for everyone regardless of identity. Then have your typical cis gender areas for those who do not feel comfortable around non familial sexual organs.

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chrono625 posted...

our mentality that a pre op transgender woman with a penis is somehow just going to be accepted by over half the population in this particular context and that they just need to deal with it is extremely naive

that's not my mentality. my mentality is "stop giving a fuck what some dumbass bigot thinks"

and using the pre/post op terminology is outdated and invalidating. a woman is a woman is a woman.

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Joyroctillery posted...

Their mentality is that they can accept it or leave. And that's that's correct mindset and the only one that matters.

Ah yes, once again the almighty penis (sarcasm) is pushing women out of their own safe spaces set up to avoid said almighty penis.

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Opisseus posted...

that's not my mentality. my mentality is "stop giving a fuck what some dumbass bigot thinks"

and using the pre/post op terminology is outdated and invalidating. a woman is a woman is a woman.

which is why I use terminology like "people with a penis" rather than men and women. either someone has a penis or they don't. normally its covered up and there's no issue, its when its uncovered and who else is around when its uncovered which is the topic of discussion here.

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chrono625 posted...

and Im saying youre not going to brute force acceptance down peoples throats regarding this sensitive issue any time soon.

Brute force would be to jam penises into the faces of these women. This is a discussion on why it's an issue, and I'm aware that some people don't even want to have those because of the lack of comfort. I apologize for the unfortunate passing of "comfort", but trans people don't get rights by being shuffled into the corners of society.

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CyricZ posted...

Exactly. You're aware that there's no one standard so trying to enforce an overtly specific standard tends to sound a little... well overtly specific to the point of being ridiculous.

There's an underlying issue to the gender segregation and censorship of nudity and no one wants to bring it up in this topic because they're not dumb enough to do so when the topic is transgender people.

The point is that no prominent culture has extensive practice of mixed bathing of adults, so "it's offensive because we find it offensive" is a perfectly valid argument as to "what is offensive about a dick." If America was the only country on Earth that was particularly prudish towards mixed-bathing, then you'd have some kind of argument that we're just being overly puritanical like we are in a lot of respects towards sex despite our propensity to glorify violence.

spikethedevil posted...

So you do care? @Bumjuice001 As in order to care less you would have to care to begin with. Unless you meant you couldnt care less.

What I meant is I could care less what bathroom/locker room/etc a person prefers to use as long as thats where they feel comfortable. Whether its a MtF using a room designated for females or vice versa, no one should be forced to use something theyre not comfortable or identify with. Im for using the locker/bathroom/etc of the gender you identify as.

I can also understand people being uncomfortable with a trans person using said rooms, more specifically women.

Its a tricky situation and as of now I dont think theres a right/wrong answer. While I dont think the argument against it is inherently transphobic I can most definitely see it becoming transphobic, which is not okay. I have yet to see the video but if its the same woman who referred to the person as a male and not a female shes being transphobic.

*tracks and gets popcorn*

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Nemu posted...

so "it's offensive because we find it offensive" is a perfectly valid argument

I refuse that. That's tautology. "It is what it is" baloney. I want people to think about the reasons behind the reasons.

like we are in a lot of respects towards sex despite our propensity to glorify violence.

Exactly my point! Exactly! So many double standards! Once we get past all these arbitrary "it's just how it is" we can start thinking about the why and the how to get around it.

But we have to have those conversations, not just give up.

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CyricZ posted...

I refuse that. That's tautology. "It is what it is" baloney. I want people to think about the reasons behind the reasons.

Exactly my point! Exactly! So many double standards! Once we get past all these arbitrary "it's just how it is" we can start thinking about the why and the how to get around it.

But we have to have those conversations, not just give up.

There is a difference between coming from a place of how things should develop in the future and a place of how things should be right now.

I personally do not think any such thing will ever come to fruition given the simple nature that nudity is sexual no matter how much you try to take that away, but we can definitely discuss the idea of it becoming more casual and commonplace. My issue with your question is it seems overly loaded, as if there is no reason anyone should find anything offensive about it currently despite there literally being no culture in which its not.

CyricZ posted...

Translation: "I refuse to waste brain cells on actually processing this."

There's literally a picture of trans man Buck Angel in this topic and you're going to say he should go in the women's locker room? EDIT: Sorry, "The Vagina Room"?

You truly need no help from us in that regard.

See thats where you are wrong I stand against transphobes but this is different this is a case of straight up what do you have in your pants? Its not saying you cant be a man or woman its a question of sex not gender do you have a penis or a vagina. I dont think that is wrong because if the person gets their surgery done then they can go into the lockerroom that suits whatever part they have down there.

Whereas with just using restrooms it doesnt matter you going into a stall its no ones business

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Crash posted...

Page number and number of posts in the previous topic about this issue:

1 - 0
2 - 6
3 - 6
4 - 7
5 - 4
6 - 2
7 - 1
8 - 0
9 - 0
10 - 5

Total - 31/500 or 6.2% of the total posts.

You've just got to laugh. It's shaping up to be even more in this topic.

God damn >_>


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https://twitter.com/lcrwnews/status/1411389912096514048

This is all that happens anymore

UnfairRepresent posted...

Thats extremely short sighted and arrogant

You're not the only person in the universe

Why is it short-sighted and arrogant? Are you implying it would be a disaster? Do we also need to keep trans people out of bathrooms because someone will dress up to rape a woman in there?

Flauros posted...

Fucking what?

You know how bad that kind of shit would go over, especially when adolescents are involved?

This is fucking unhinged. All in the sake of not hurting the fee fees of a fraction of the percent of the population?

Why is it unhinged? What do children have to do with anything? Is it ok if a child accidentally sees the naked genitals of someone that match their own? Penis or vagina, what's the difference? "Save the children" is not an argument. How about children are kept away from adults by decent parents?

Our weird puritanical society hates nudity so much. It doesn't serve any logical purpose.

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PC_Genjin posted...

https://twitter.com/lcrwnews/status/1411389912096514048

This is all that happens anymore

protecting her visual ID

shares their Twitter handle with pictures.

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hockeybub89 posted...

Why is it unhinged? What do children have to do with anything? Is it ok if a child accidentally sees the naked genitals of someone that match their own? Penis or vagina, what's the difference? "Save the children" is not an argument.

You think its ok for people to expose themselves in front of children?

Youre fucking sick

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@Flauros posted...

You think its ok for people to expose themselves in front of children?

Youre fucking sick

So a boy seeing a naked man in the locker room is less sick than a girl seeing a naked pre-op woman in the locker room? How about we keep children out of public locker rooms if we want to protect them from adults?

Should we arrest a man if a boy accidentally looks at his penis at the urinal?

I didn't say I wanted to abolish sexual assault laws. You're being too emotional.

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hockeybub89 posted...

@
So a boy seeing a naked man in the locker room is less sick than a girl seeing a naked pre-op woman in the locker room? How about we keep children out of public locker rooms if we want to protect them from adults?

Should we arrest a man if a boy accidentally looks at his penis at the urinal?

I didn't say I wanted to abolish sexual assault laws. You're being too emotional.

when you go into a locker room, youre giving consent that you may see naked people with genitalia the same as yours and that they may see you. Not staring, no inappropriate actions, just you may see them. When a woman goes into a female locker room, she is not giving consent to see someone with a penis in there.


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Personally, I believe transwomen should use whichever bathroom they identify with but I'm also aware I have zero stake in the situation. What I find amusing is a topic full of men trying to tell women (cis or otherwise) what they should or shouldn't be offended by. This is mansplaining 101.

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ArchNemo posted...

Personally, I believe transwomen should use whichever bathroom they identify with but I'm also aware I have zero stake in the situation. What I find amusing is a topic full of men trying to tell women (cis or otherwise) what they should or shouldn't be offended by. This is mansplaining 101.

fuck off no its not lol

The whole incident is garbage because we're sorely lacking in context and haven't even heard from other people involved.

The only direct account we have is someone who has clearly outed herself as transphobic. I don't consider that trustworthy.

Everything after that is assumptions and suppositions.

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ArchNemo posted...

Personally, I believe transwomen should use whichever bathroom they identify with but I'm also aware I have zero stake in the situation. What I find amusing is a topic full of men trying to tell women (cis or otherwise) what they should or shouldn't be offended by. This is mansplaining 101.

If you watched the video, it was a woman who complained to the staff about the incident, then more women started voicing their disapproval. However, a man (Im assuming gender) stepped in and told the first woman not to be a dick and tried to brush off their concerns.

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hockeybub89 posted...

Our weird puritanical society hates nudity so much. It doesn't serve any logical purpose.

You could make this arguement for pretty much every societal taboo. Seems like you're just cherry picking the ones you disagree with. That's not how society works

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We have this sit at my work right now. Guy identifies as a chick, dresses like one etc but still has his junk. He goes into thr ladies restroom and they all complain about him. Hr says they cant touch him. Causing a lot of drama. Thankfully not my department but you know how word gets around.

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SauI_Goodman posted...

We have this sit at my work right now. Guy identifies as a chick, dresses like one etc but still has his junk. He goes into thr ladies restroom and they all complain about him. Hr says they cant touch him. Causing a lot of drama. Thankfully not my department but you know how word gets around.

I predict a riot.

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SauI_Goodman posted...

We have this sit at my work right now. Guy identifies as a chick, dresses like one etc but still has his junk. He goes into thr ladies restroom and they all complain about him. Hr says they cant touch him. Causing a lot of drama. Thankfully not my department but you know how word gets around.

Lol that just sounds funny.

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Solid Snake07 posted...

You could make this arguement for pretty much every societal taboo. Seems like you're just cherry picking the ones you disagree with. That's not how society works

Shit I guess society has reached its apex then. Any further changes would only be agreed upon by some people and that wouldn't be fair to hateful bigots that want to ban trans people from free society. Better roll back all LGBT protections while we're at it since those lifestyles are still taboo with half of America.

Bass_X0 posted...

when you go into a locker room, youre giving consent that you may see naked people with genitalia the same as yours and that they may see you. Not staring, no inappropriate actions, just you may see them. When a woman goes into a female locker room, she is not giving consent to see someone with a penis in there.

You're just making shit up to justify society refusing to ever accept trans people as equals. When the society police came up with this unwritten rule, they simply weren't aware of trans people. They were probably too busy castrating gay people and enslaving minorities at the time to be accepting

I give my consent to see all genitals in any locker room I walk into.

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Not everybody does. I would claim that the majority would vote not to.

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Bass_X0 posted...

Not everybody does. I would claim that the majority would vote not to.

I could make a pithy comment about what "the majority" was "for" going back over centuries, but honestly this is a silly direction to take the argument.

No one's suggesting that it's perfectly fine for everyone to see everyone's genitalia. It's just that this being the eighth topic about this incident, we still don't have the facts necessary to judge under what circumstances this trans woman's penis was seen.

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Bass_X0 posted...

Not everybody does. I would claim that the majority would vote not to.

Sounds like the majority of people are sexist then. Not only do they not like trans women, but they hate men too.

I need some logical arguments beyond "nudity makes me feel icky" because I'm pretty sure a lot of people are uncomfortable with nudity from some people that were born with the same genitals as them. No one wants to see an old person's shriveled balls or saggy tits. They aren't really consenting to that. Also, penises are fuckig gross no matter who's packing it where.

Is there a negative impact on society you see from allowing trans people in any locker room? Do you feel there should be actual legislation to control what genitals go where?

Feelings don't matter. We shouldn't restrict anything solely on feelings. I need data and a physical impact.

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Lol "In Jesus name''

Of course dey are hella religious
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metallica846 posted...

Feelings dont matter. Where have I heard that before?

From conservative talking heads that mistake debunked conspiracy theories and lies as facts and science?

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metallica846 posted...

No thats not it.

Well, whatever. Feelings don't matter, sweetie.

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Of course this topic is being kept alive by people who believe it without question. Way to fall for a false flag.

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