Current Events > Please describe the difference between a soft and hard magic system.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've seen resources on the internet describe stuff like Harry Potter as both hard and soft

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Rules, I guess? Soft is just going "hullabaloo" and shit happens, hard has an internal logic.

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Doe posted...

I've seen resources on the internet describe stuff like Harry Potter as both hard and soft

That is because Harry Potter is in fact right in the middle of the spectrum.

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DrizztLink posted...

Rules, I guess? Soft is just going "hullabaloo" and shit happens, hard has an internal logic.

Well take stands from Jojo. They have internal logic like this:
But then some stands are exceptions to those rules, like long distance stands, and then Araki also changes the rules to those based on what he'd think is cooler. Then when he gives them superpowers you end up with shit like Wonder of U where it has a described logic (you suffer disaster if you get closer to it), but that very logic is arbitrary and creates wildly different results under various circumstances.

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Yeah, Harry Potter is both because it does define aspects and methods of spellcasting, but also never really explains how it works or what's actually happening.

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Hard magic systems have rules that the plot sticks to to give it a sense of consistency and internal logic.
Soft magic systems can basically do whatever the author wants it to, and its more focused on the mystery and wonder of magic.


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Hard magic systems are for dweebs
Soft magic systems are in good fantasy books.

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cuh posted...

Whats an example of hard magic (in literature, film, etc.)?

children's books like those written by Brandon Sanderson

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Hard magic systems follow specific rules, the magic is controlled and explained to the reader in the narrative detailing the mechanics behind the way the magic 'works', and can be used for building interesting worlds that revolve around the magic system. Soft magic systems may not have clearly defined rules or limitations, or provide limited exposition regarding their workings, and are used to create a sense of wonder to the reader.

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cuh posted...

Whats an example of hard magic (in literature, film, etc.)?

nen in Hunter x Hunter
magic in D&D
magic in the Eragon books

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Hard and Soft Magic are really two sides of a scale, most magic systems are somewhere between the two extremes.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Most of Brandon Sanderson's books have fairly hard magic systems.

cuh posted...

Whats an example of hard magic (in literature, film, etc.)?

Fullmetal Alchemist to a point; both series reach a point where it gets a little...weird. It doesn't explain exactly what the transmutation formula are, but it is very consistent about requiring a circle, equivalent exchange, and with what you can transmute something into.

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A hard magic system has defined rules that cannot be broken. The plot uses the limitations and strengths of the magic system accurately.

For example:
A character can shoot 6 beams of energy before he needs to go to sleep. He knows 6 different types of beams within his school of magic. He encounters a foe annd must use these 6 different spells and a maximum of 6 times such that he can defeat his enemy.

Soft magic systems employ magic that is undefined. Its exact limitations are usually unknown, and its uses are usually unknown. What exactly are the limits of gandalf? How many times can he create the flame of anor? What is general magical skillset?
Soft magic systems are rarely used by protagonists because they become deus ex machinas and jail out of free cards. With no limitations, there can be no stakes.

Soft magic systems are used to create a sense of wonder and lore. It is often a power of a god, something that normal man cannot understand. In many ways, it an allegory to the mysteries of our real lives. Such as how the universe was created.

Harry Potter is both a soft and and a hard magic system. He has specific spells he can cast in combat that he knows (I can levitate obejcts, I can summon objects) that the reader is aware of. These skills are developed over time. This drives the plot and combat.

But it also employs mysterious soft magic for the sake of creating wonder, and a sense that magic cannot really understood. The power of love saves harry, for example, is not really explained. What are the limits of that power? How much does someone have to love someone for that power to defend from a avada kedavra. What spells can it protect against. The origination of magic and arcane energy is also not really explained i think, and it isnt really explained why some mages/wizards are more powerful than others.

Harry potter has the advantages of creating a plot around its magic system by defining harry's limitations and strengths (hard magic system) but also around creating a sense of wonder and undefined power with its soft magic (even voldemort cannot understand thepower of love magic)

averagejoel posted...

nen in Hunter x Hunter

See I see people say this, but you can still do whatever you want with Nen, the categories of manipulator/transmutor just describe what you're best at doing with it, and there's even a miscellaneous section in the form of Specialist that gives you stuff like the knockoff King Crimson in the latest ship arc.

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Magic/sympathy in Kingkiller Chronicle would fall under "hard" for sure I'd think.

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Shezarr posted...

Magic/sympathy in Kingkiller Chronicle would fall under "hard" for sure I'd think.

Sympathy yes. Names are soft magic tho.

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Doe posted...

See I see people say this, but you can still do whatever you want with Nen, the categories of manipulator/transmutor just describe what you're best at doing with it, and there's even a miscellaneous section in the form of Specialist that gives you stuff like the knockoff King Crimson in the latest ship arc.

Nen is a hard magic system that just isn't really well-explained.

marthsheretoo posted...

Sympathy yes. Names are soft magic tho.

Yeah true

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Cock magic?

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soft magic is magic that exists but is not very well defined or explained in its scope and function. Think stuff like Lord of the Rings or Warhammer Fantasy where wizards just kinda do stuff and you nod along and go "well yeah he's a wizard"

hard magic is magic where the reason magic can be done, what it does and how you go about doing it is well defined and explained. Think basically any Brandon Sanderson book

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Doe posted...

See I see people say this, but you can still do whatever you want with Nen, the categories of manipulator/transmutor just describe what you're best at doing with it, and there's even a miscellaneous section in the form of Specialist that gives you stuff like the knockoff King Crimson in the latest ship arc.

with very few exceptions (those basically being extraordinary nen prodigies), people generally have 1 or 2 unique things that they do with nen

yes, you can do pretty much whatever you want with nen, but the potency of the ability is dependent on your affinities and willpower, and on what you're willing to sacrifice for that potency

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